[3.5] Which Weapon Properties should I choose?

[Adamantrue]

I wanted to create a Weapon Set composed of 4 or 5 Short Swords (though I could be talked into a different Weapon), each one having very specific Properties.

The goal was to make it so that a Character could pick 2 of them (its meant for Two-Weapon Fighting) at any given time, and have a good deal of specialization against fairly common opponents. The only real problem I'm having is trying to decide which Properties to choose, and which combination to choose.

I'm thinking I should try to stick to +7 in total enhancements, though all of my first thoughts ended up being +8. In addition, I should probably try and make them +3 Weapons (so they can be further enhanced by Greater Weapon Crystals), though that can probably be fudged based on the specifics of the Properties chosen.

Some early ideas:
Brilliant Energy Vampiric Vicious Short Sword +1 (+8 total)
This would actually do well against most opponents. Vampiric & Vicious on average cancel each other out, so it deals an additional 3d6 damage on a hit with effectively no drawbacks. The Brilliant Energy Portion should do well against most Tanks, allowing the measly +1 bonus to be not much of a hindrance.
Ethereal Reaver Magebane Sacred Short Sword +3 (+8 total)
This should prove very helpful against Arcane Spellcasters, Undead, and Evil Outsiders, though the Ethereal Reaver portion makes this flexible enough to be helpful in other situations (any Ethereal opponent with Ghost Touch Weapons).
Bane (construct) Energy Aura Metalline Short Sword +3 (+8 total)
This should be effective against opponents that have various Regeneration or Damage Reduction, as it can be adapted to bypass it. Adding the Construct Bane property here was really about rounding out the whole package.
Binding Greater Dispelling Impedance Short Sword +3 (+8 Total)
This is almost exclusively geared towards facing Spellcasters, though I can think of quite a few creatures that this would also favor, and even mundane opponents at higher levels often have Buffs to be dispelled and SLA that are handy to impede. My first choice was to pick Ghost Touch over Binding, but that is probably a choice biased by my games rather than overall effectiveness, and I'm pretty sure you can pick up Ghost Touch other ways.

This total package costs 513,240 gp, about 120,000 gp more expensive than I wanted and almost 2/3 of a 20th Level Character's Wealth. It also still has gaps in effectiveness that would have to be rounded out by other equipment, such as Weapon Crystals and other gear. I have been thinking of adding additional abilities for possessing the set, much like the Magic Item Sets from the MIC (2 items would grant an bonus ability worth 25,662 gp).

But I thought I'd present the whole idea to the boards first, to see if better minds than mine can refine this idea.

[edit]

Weapon Crystals that would work with this concept (default choice underlined):

Lesser Demolition Crystal (Ethereal Reaver or Binding)
Lesser Fiendslayer Crystal (Brilliant Energy, Bane, or Binding)
Greater Revelation Crystal (Ethereal Reaver, Bane, or Binding)
Lesser Truedeath Crystal (Bane or Binding)

Bringing the current total cost to 529,240 gp, there is increasingly less room for other equipment. Its between the cost of three +9 Weapons & three +10 Weapons.

This may be where the concept truly starts breaking down, as the initial thought was that it could be cost saving by being able to specialize without as much of a risk.

[MeeposFire]

I always liked adaptive (+1) if you have feats to take advantage of it. For instance if you had superior unarmed strike you have a shortsword dealing 3d6 base damage. If you have snap kick you get an extra attack and with imp nat attack you can boost your damage another level (4d6 I think).

[Adamantrue]

I don't know if it would be appropriate here, though it may be possible depending on the details. Which book is that from, so I can hunt it down?

[Godskook]

Its from ToB, and its a more "build with it or dump it" type enchantment, imho.

Also, consider collision(+2) and valorous(+1)(from MiC and UE respectively). For a pure-damage weapon, they're both fairly competitive.

And finally, I generally dislike having an enhancment bonus better than +1, unless you're aiming to put crystals in the thing, which you didn't mention specifically for them.

[Adamantrue]

I just finished editing in a sort of "default" Weapon Crystal array. Which is why I was trying to stick with the +3s.

I'll check out those other enchantments you suggest (though I'm not a fan of FR). However, damage isn't my primary concern, as it isn't the most important aspect in every situation (though it is in many, which is why it isn't being ignored either).

[mootoall]

Smoking. Smoking is a sexy enhancement from Lords of Madness. 20% concealment for a +1 enhancement price? Yes please, and I'll take some sugar on the side.

[Darrin]

Smoking. Smoking is a sexy enhancement from Lords of Madness. 20% concealment for a +1 enhancement price? Yes please, and I'll take some sugar on the side.

Lords of Darkness, actually (p. 180).

Rather than trying to even out Vampiric/Vicious, try tracking down the Wrathful Healing property, it's tucked away in an obscure 3.0 sourcebook: Enemies & Allies (p. 20). +3 enhancement, wielder gets healed HP = 1/2 damage dealt.

[Godskook]

I'll check out those other enchantments you suggest (though I'm not a fan of FR). However, damage isn't my primary concern, as it isn't the most important aspect in every situation (though it is in many, which is why it isn't being ignored either).

I mentioned them just for the 1 'primary' damage weapon, since they're cheap but effective. Especially valorous.

[Popertop]

the abilities seem really random.
maybe if you tried more for a theme to tie the swords to one another?
maybe correspond to different elements?
+1 Flaming Vicious [other aggressive ability] [aggro feat] Scorching Ray 3-5/day CL 11, maybe a small bonus to STR, like +4?
+1 Corrosive [defensive ability] Meld to stone or stoneshape 3-5/day [defensive feat] CON +4
+1 Force/Sonic/Shocking [evasive ability, maybe a fly speed] [movement feat] Wind wall 3-5/day DEX +4
+1 Frost etc. [this is the smart sword, i ran out of ideas but you get the point]

I just threw on a few low level spell uses to illustrate the kind of theme you could go with, I'm sure you could tinker a bit and find a few that synergize the way you would like. You could also throw on skill bonuses to matching skills for the different kinds of swords, like bonuses to Climb and Jump for the aggressive one, Balance and Tumble for the dexterous one, and so and so forth.
Just throwing some ideas out there, brainstorming a little.
Hope this helps

[Adamantrue]

There is a theme I'm shooting for. The proper 2 should be well suited to face foes not through potency, but a certain degree of specialization.

At least, that's the goal.

They aren't really that random (though I'm sure they could be fine tuned), so much as they have a very specific purpose. I'll admit that my impulses & instincts probably aren't ideal with this, which is why I'm looking to get outside my brain. Still, it isn't bad at the start, already meeting my goals in a very broad way.

Ghost Cleric: Ethereal Reaver primary, Binding (with Truedeath Crystal) in the offhand.

Ethereal Reaver does a lot of the work here, letting you detect & hit the Ghost, while the Sacred portion provides damage and the Revelation Crystal lets your allies join in. Greater Dispelling and Impedance are working against the spellcaster, with the Truedeath Crystal keeping them in the game.

Dwarven Barbarian: Brilliant Energy primary, Binding (with Revelation Crystal) in the offhand.

You're damage racing a Barbarian, but the combination of Vicious and Vampiric means you have lots of dice, and the Brilliant Energy means you land every hit with it. Greater Dispelling should help against any buffs it has, and the Revelation Crystal is only a safety net against Displacement.

Greater Stone Golem: Bane primary, Binding in the offhand.

Its a Construct Bane Weapon, obviously you want it. Metalline helps too. The Demolition Crystal makes all the difference in the offhand, though having Greater Dispel Magic is never bad. That's about all you have to work with.

Horned Devil: Bane (with Fiendslayer Crystal) primary, Ethereal Reaver in the offhand.

Metalline with a Fiendslayer Crystal means it can match the DR requirements, and the Energy Aura can add damage that won't be resisted. Sacred is pulling most of the weight in the offhand, though its always nice to see the invisible (just in case...it is a Devil).

Ancient Black Dragon: Ethereal Reaver primary, Binding in the offhand.

Magebane is your first choice, with the Ethereal Reaver and Revelation Crystal covering possible magic defenses that may come up. Binding, Greater Dispelling, and Impedance are all going to be helpful against a spellcaster, probably the best you have to offer out of your remaining choices.

Hmm...going through the list, I'm noticing that the Binding & Ethereal Reaver come up fairly frequently, with the Brilliant Energy coming up only once. Perhaps I could allocate resources accordingly, and find that cost-savings I was hoping for.

[Adamantrue]

Let's take another look at the choices of Weapon Properties, from the above examples...

Bane [+1] (1/5)
Binding [+1] (3/5)
Brilliant Energy [+4] (1/5)
Energy Aura [+2] (4/5)
Ethereal Reaver [+3] (3/5)
Greater Dispelling [+2] (4/5)
Impedance [+2] (2/5)
Magebane [+1] (1/5)
Metalline [+2] (2/5)
Sacred [+1] (2/5)
Vampiric [+2] (3/5)
Vicious [+1] (special, but only in combination with Vampiric)

If I were to combine the most common abilities on a single Weapon, it does inflate the price of that choice. However, it does also free up choices on the off-hand Weapons, which could prove cheaper in the long run.

Say...Binding Ethereal Reaver Greater Dispelling Impaling Metalline Short Sword +1, a +10 Weapon that would cost 200,310 gp. The only abilities that really conflict with each other are Binding & Impaling, but that may not come up that often. Toss a Lesser Fiendslayer Crystal to make it good-aligned, and the total investment on a single weapon is 205,310 gp.

Now you could start looking at the other Weapons, and make them more specialized (and hopefully, less expensive). For instance...

A Bane (Construct) Shortsword +1 with a Lesser Demolition Crystal would cost 11,310 gp, and would really be the primary choice, with the main Sword still proving useful, even though its relegated to the off-hand.

A Metalline Sacred Shortsword +1 with a Lesser Truedeath Crystal would cost 37,310 gp, be a strong choice against Undead and Evil Outsiders. The main Sword stays useful, and you could go either way with the primary & off-hand.

A Magebane Impedance Shortsword +1 would cost 32,310 gp. I honestly can't think of a Crystal that would enhance this in any meaningful way that isn't already available, so this stays as-is. However, adding in 4 Lesser Crystals of Energy Assault now wouldn't be bad to mention, and lets me take Energy Aura out of the equation. 1 of each available energy type, for an added cost of 12,000 gp.

I've currently spent 298,240 gp. With Brilliant Energy-Vampiric-Vicious costing 128,310, I have indeed found a possible cost-saving approach. But I'm also becoming less enchanted with the combo (uh...no pun intended), and I'm considering other options.

Still open to other thoughts...

[ericgrau]

The +1d6 properties tend to be best in general. Spell storing is also frequently useful. Others depend on the monster and I think you should consider carefully whether or not that kind of monster is very common in your campaign before putting a special purpose enchant on a weapon. Anything that doesn't get used most of the time is a poor use of a +1 equivalent.

TWF in particular does best if there is some kind of per hit bonus effect. Spell storing becomes even better. Attack bonus helps the mid BAB rogues and scouts (who rely on per hit bonus damage). Anything that triggers a save yet can be upgraded to scale with level is nice. But even a low save DC can be great when it applies to 5+ attacks, as long as the monster still fails on a roll of 2 or 3. Tripping also works well on low AB secondary attacks because it's a touch attack, but then there aren't many weapon enhancements except maybe ghost touch that help it. Maybe a lower cost secondary tripping weapon like a sickle could be paired with an expensive main weapon.

[mootoall]

Again, smoking smoking smoking smoking. Why would you not want that enchantment? Stacking miss chances is always a good thing for a melee'r. The little debuff for grapples is just icing.

[tyckspoon]

If you want a DR-weapon, consider the Shadow Striking property (Tome of Magic.) It's a +3 equivalent, but it does both alignment and materials-based and it doesn't take an action from you to set the type; it automagically changes when you hit something that has DR.

[Adamantrue]

Shadow Striking? Hmmm...
Again, smoking smoking smoking smoking. Why would you not want that enchantment? Stacking miss chances is always a good thing for a melee'r. The little debuff for grapples is just icing. Hehee...I've actually been trying to find my misplaced Book of Aberrations (that is where you said it is from, right?), to see if I want to pick that up.
The +1d6 properties tend to be best in general. Spell storing is also frequently useful. Others depend on the monster and I think you should consider carefully whether or not that kind of monster is very common in your campaign before putting a special purpose enchant on a weapon. Anything that doesn't get used most of the time is a poor use of a +1 equivalent. The "last" Sword of this set should be more general purpose, as every general specialization is more or less covered. It should probably be in the same vein as the Brilliant Energy Vampiric Vicious choice, but I'm wanting something cheaper now. I could see dropping the Brilliant Energy, and maybe picking up some sort of other +1 equivalent.
TWF in particular does best if there is some kind of per hit bonus effect. Spell storing becomes even better. Attack bonus helps the mid BAB rogues and scouts (who rely on per hit bonus damage). Anything that triggers a save yet can be upgraded to scale with level is nice. But even a low save DC can be great when it applies to 5+ attacks, as long as the monster still fails on a roll of 2 or 3. Tripping also works well on low AB secondary attacks because it's a touch attack, but then there aren't many weapon enhancements except maybe ghost touch that help it. Maybe a lower cost secondary tripping weapon like a sickle could be paired with an expensive main weapon. This "set" is intended for a Marshal 5/Knight 15, using some homebrew stuff I've been working on HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177085), which would allow their levels to stack for the purposes of the bonuses provided by their Major Auras and Fighting Challenge. Should give great bonuses to the attacks & damage, and can pull double duty with a TWF approach.

I'm not really in a position to really support Special Combat Maneuvers with Feats, as I've already had to take a Flaw to fit what I needed (its a TWF with AoO things going on). But, perhaps something that worked with the Knight's Challenges or Marshal Auras, like Fear effects or something that aids allies...

[Foryn Gilnith]

it's tucked away in an obscure 3.0 sourcebook: Enemies & Allies (p. 20). +3 enhancement, wielder gets healed HP = 1/2 damage dealt.

Enemies & Allies actually has game material? Wow.