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Lateral
2010-12-18, 02:22 PM
I'm trying to make a pit fighter class, because Combat Pragmatists are badass. Problem is, I suck at homebrewing my own stuff, so I've decided to just lay out the parts of the class I already have ideas for and ask you, the Playground, to help me fill it out and make it balanced. I realize that even what I already have probably needs some work, but these are just my basic ideas. Thanks in advance!

Just so's you know, the idea is that he wields a light weapon (dagger, kukri, etc.) in one hand and punches with the other, and uses a quick, dirty fighting style. I'm planning on making a bunch of his abilities be called 'Pit (something)', like Pit Combat. The classes that I envisioned to be most likely to enter this were thug fighter (with or without SA variant) and some kinda rogue. Thug SA fighter with one or two levels of rogue would probably be the likeliest.

Pit Fighter

Hit Die
d12. (Too high?)

Requirements
To qualify to become a pit fighter, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.

Base Attack Bonus
+7.

Skills
Intimidate 8 ranks, Move Silently 4 ranks, Survival 8 ranks.

Feats
Power Attack, Combat Reflexes, Improved Unarmed Strike.

Special
The character must have dropped a humanoid to -1 or below in a knife fight.

Class Skills
The pit fighter's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Autohypnosis (Wis), Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Survival (Wis) and Tumble (Dex).

Skill Points at Each Level
4 + Int modifier.

THE PIT FIGHTER
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+2|
+0|Power Blade, Pit Combat
2nd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+0|Sneak Attack +1d6, Quick Fist

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+1|Bonus Feat

4th|
+4|
+4|
+4|
+1|Pounce & Weave

5th|
+5|
+4|
+4|
+1|Sneak Attack +2d6, Greater Pit Combat

6th|
+6|
+5|
+5|
+2|Bonus Feat, Guttural Howl

7th|
+7|
+5|
+5|
+2|(needs name)

8th|
+8|
+6|
+6|
+2|Sneak Attack +3d6

9th|
+9|
+6|
+6|
+3|Bonus Feat

10th|
+10|
+7|
+7|
+3|[/table]

Class Features
All of the following are Class Features of the Pit Fighter prestige class.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
Pit Fighters are proficient with all simple and martial weapons and light armor (but not shields).

Power Blade
A Pit Fighter can use a knife to cut people open as if he were using a much larger weapon. When he wields a light weapon in one hand, he may apply 1.5 times his Strength bonus to his damage. In addition, he may use the Power Attack feat with a light weapon to deal extra damage equal to twice the amount he sacrifices to hit. (Is this too much for a 1st level ability?

Pit Combat
Pit Fighters know how to blend brute force with speed and agility to create an efficient fighting style. When he wields a light weapon in one hand, he may use either his Strength or Dexterity modifiers as a bonus to hit and damage.

At 5th level, this ability improves. He may now add both his Strength and dexterity modifiers to attack and damage.

Sneak Attack
This is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name. The extra damage dealt increases by +1d6 every other level (2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, and 10th). If an assassin gets a sneak attack bonus from another source the bonuses on damage stack. (Should I make it every 3rd level?)

Quick Fist
At 2nd level, a pit fighter learns to use his fists to augment his knifework. If you have a hand free, as a swift action, you may make an unarmed strike at a -2 penalty. If it hits, it deals damage as if you were a monk of a level equal to your HD.

Bonus Feats
At 3rd, 6th, and 9th level, a pit fighter gets a bonus combat-oriented feat. These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats. A pit fighter must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums.

These bonus feats are in addition to the feat that a character of any class gets from advancing levels. A pit fighter is not limited to the list of fighter bonus feats when choosing these feats. (I made it every 3 levels. Seems about right to me.)

Pounce & Weave
At 4th level, a pit fighter learns to charge and still get his dagger in multiple times, and to dodge, duck, and weave around foes. He gains the Pounce special ability. In addition, he may choose to move only his speed on a charge. If he does, he no longer has to move directly towards his target, nor does he need to have a clear path. On such a charge, he also gains a +4 dodge bonus against opportunity attacks provoked by this movement.

Guttural Howl At 6th level, a pit fighter can let out a savage snarl to strike fear into the hearts of his opponents. Whenever he charges, he may attempt (as a free action) to demoralize everything within 30 feet of his final destination. This takes place after the move but before the attack.

(needs name)
At 7th level, a pit fighter learns how to fight dirty. Whenever he hits with a Quick Fist attack, he may initiate a grapple attempt without provoking an AoO. Include the -2 penalty that you took for Quick Fist in this check. If he succeeds, you may either maintain the grapple, or end the grapple instantly. If you choose to end the grapple, the target either takes an extra (1d12+1.5 Str) damage and be staggered for one round, or takes no extra damage but be nauseated for 1d3 rounds (Fort saves on nausea or staggering but not extra damage; DC 10+HD+Str modifier)
------
Again, thanks in advance.

Changelog:
Added Quick Fist and Pounce & Weave.
Modified Pit Combat.
Lowered amount of Sneak Attack and added (needs name) and Guttural Howl.

Frog Dragon
2010-12-18, 04:58 PM
This seems to both hybrid the rogue and fighter, and is way too amazing as a level 1 dip. For example, if you are a Rogue 7/Fighter 2 entering this, with a natural 16 in both dex and str and a +2 item to both. A level 1 dip grants you a +4 to attack and damage. Sounds quite excessive.

Also, you should really just write "Improved Unarmed Strike" instead of "IUS". Stopped me for a second.

In general, less Sneak Attack, more actual abilities, but not as powerful and early as Pit Combat. After this, you may also want to lower the prerequisites on this so it can be entered at level 6.

Lateral
2010-12-18, 06:42 PM
Read the OP. I asked for constructive criticism, not why it's overpowered. I know it needs work, that's why I'm asking the playground for help. This is a WORK IN PROGRESS. The lack of abilities is because I need help figuring out what abilities it should have. :smallannoyed:

That said, I was wondering if it was too much for a 1st level ability. Maybe I could give him Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat at 1st level, and give him Pit Combat later. I said that Pit Combat was supposed to be the quintessential thing that the Pit Fighter gets, but it is a little strong for a 1st level ability. +4 attack and damage isn't very much at first, but it gets stronger once multipliers come into play.

Edit: Also, keep in mind, it's supposed to be better than a Fighter or Rogue at combat. They aren't what I'm trying to balance for. I'd rather it were on par with somewhere in between the Barbarian and the ToB classes.

Stycotl
2010-12-18, 06:47 PM
Read the OP. I asked for constructive criticism, not why it's overpowered.

telling you why "it is overpowered" is definitely a part of constructive criticism, and you getting huffy and puffy about it says that you don't really want any constructive criticism.

and you didn't actually say that you wanted constructive criticism; that is just one of the default assumptions of anyone posting on this forum: that a) they want help balancing it; and b) they want to make it available for others to use. the first assumption, combined with the fact that you are asking people if certain abilities are balanced opens you up to a critique of the class's balance.

further, he didn't say it was overpowered; he said its 1st level made too good a dip.

Lateral
2010-12-18, 07:01 PM
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to come off as aggravated. What I meant was that, while what he said was reasonable, it wasn't very helpful. I understand that it probably has overpowered parts (I commented on the things I wasn't sure about), but he gave no suggestions on how to fix Pit Combat and no ideas on new abilities to put in. It would be nice to have some suggestions to help add new things and help fix the things that need fixing-- I already have some idea of what needs fixing, I'm just not sure how.

Lateral
2010-12-19, 04:20 PM
Added Guttural Howl and another ability which needs a name. Ideas? Comments?