Eberron question: fall Of the giants

[classy one]

Hello playgrounders. I was thinking of making a campaign based in Xen'dirk with the Dreaming Dark as the enemy. Basically, they are trying to find out why the old Quori attacked the Prime and the PCs have "something" that provides a clue. Now they have dreamblades and thoughtstealers after them.

But there is no canon explanation for why the Quori invaded Eberron during the age of the giants and I can't really think of a great reason for it either. I mean they did a great job in Sarlona creating civil war, why did they feel compelled to make war directly?

I'm basically looking for some sort explanation as I am firm believer of not making things up as they go (unlike the x-files). Your help is much appreciated.

[Coidzor]

Well, IIRC, the cradle of humanity was, well, the cradle of humanity. Whereas the giants were a unified empire in a highly advanced, high-magic society. Civil War just wasn't on the table.

[SoC175]

I think a canon reason was never given, but it has been hinted that the cycle was about to turn once again and they foresaw what kind of age would follow next and didn't like it. Thus they had to pack up and leave for another world

[AslanCross]

I think a canon reason was never given, but it has been hinted that the cycle was about to turn once again and they foresaw what kind of age would follow next and didn't like it. Thus they had to pack up and leave for another world

I think this might be the closest we can get to a canon answer. There is a cycle, the Kalashtar believe, that governs Dal Quor as it shifts between light and darkness. This is why the Quori persecuted and did their best to eliminate the renegades (who eventually hybridized with humans to become the spirits of the Kalashtar). The Dreaming Dark rules Dal Quor now, but eventually they will be overthrown and the Path of Light holds on to that.

While you might be a firm believer in not making things up, OP, Keith Baker believes the DM has a right to make things up, which is why the Mourning, the invasion of the Quori and later the Daelkyr don't really have reasons and he swears they will remain unexplained.

EDIT: Also, didn't the Quori establish Sarlona AFTER they lost the war with the giants?

[classy one]

I think a canon reason was never given, but it has been hinted that the cycle was about to turn once again and they foresaw what kind of age would follow next and didn't like it. Thus they had to pack up and leave for another world

The problem with that is the turning of the age would destroy the Quori no matter what kind of dream/nightmare realm Dal Quor would become.
But on the otherhand, emigrating to a new world making yourself separate/immune from the destruction of your homeplane. That maybe something I can work with. But then why war against the giants? Why not Khorvaire which was magically and technologically primitive at the time?

[AslanCross]

1. Perhaps there was a Dal Quor manifest zone there which made it the only stable location where they could manifest at full strength.
2. Perhaps they were drawn to something the Giants created (more hooks for the PCs)
3. Perhaps the giants had actually been planning on invading other worlds in their hubris, and their initial target was Dal Quor, and that the Quori invasion was a preemptive strike.

[classy one]

While you might be a firm believer in not making things up, OP, Keith Baker believes the DM has a right to make things up, which is why the Mourning, the invasion of the Quori and later the Daelkyr don't really have reasons and he swears they will remain unexplained.
I know there isn't a canon reason, I'm looking for some ideas for my campaign.


EDIT: Also, didn't the Quori establish Sarlona AFTER they lost the war with the giants?
The Quori from the time of giants predate the establishment of Reidra by over 13,000 years. Not sure if this was one or two cycles afterwards but it is clear they are not of the same age. The Quori of the age of Giants seem to be about as evil as the Dreaming Dark of present day as evidenced by the fact that they have no idea why their predecessors bothered invading Xen'dirk. And the Quori are immoral, which means they were "reborn" or "reprocessed" sometime since then.

[AslanCross]

My hypothesis based on the events:

1. The Quori from the Xen'Drik war could manifest entirely on the Material. The Quori in the Sarlonan civil wars could not. This is due in part to Dal Quor being severed from the Material.

2. The Quori from the Xen'Drik war were actually trying to stage an invasion, though the reason is unknown. As far as I can tell, the Quori on Sarlona are trying to kill off all the Kalashtar, since that's where the renegade quori escaped.

They have different goals, and one is handicapped. This might be why they didn't try corrupting the giants with paranoia.

[0Megabyte]

It is also possible, also hinted, though the source may not be reliable, that it was not the Quori of the time who started the war, but instead the Giants who began it, in some way.

As everyone else said, there's little that's clear, but it's clear the Quori were from a different age. After all, the current Quori don't know what happened then, as it was before their existence.

Dal Quor wasn't torn from its planar orbit until the war itself.

It's possible the warforged were originally invented by the Quori, as a means to control a body when not on the material plane, though that makes somewhat less sense unless that happened after the plane was made remote. Or who knows? Regardless, though the giants are known (thought) to have made the original warforged, it may have been the quori. Who made them first is less certain.

So, that's a little more that I recall.

[classy one]

The giants started the war? Wow that is a surprising twist. I can't really see why invading Xen'drik would benefit the Quori in anyway.

The Quori of present day have very clear goals:
1) realign Dal Quor
2) stabilize Dal Quor by making all mortals dream the same dream (via the monoliths), and maybe prevent the turning of the wheel.
3) kill the rogue Quori who became Kalashtar.

None of these involve the need to physically invade the Prime. If anything physically manifesting in the Prime is risky. Of course, this assumes the Quori of that time knew their plane would renew itself every so often. There is a chance they were invading for reasons other than preservation but the war seems too risky to engage in for anything other than survival.
The Dreaming Dark clearly think the old Quori found a way to stop turning of the wheel and that involved killing a bunch of giants. They failed thanks to the dragons but maybe things will be different this time around.


Another question/request: I'd like a reason why the dragon prophocy isn't in Sarlona at all. In fact, if I could somehow tie the fall of the giants to the lack of dragonmarks in Sarlona that would be even better.