Lv. 30 campaign character assistance

[GideonRiddle]

In January I am in a new campaign that should go to lv. 30.
There are 8 other people.

The Story:
We are part of a mercenary group that has been hired to protect this child that has all the powers of Hextor (I think).

Books allowed with no ?'s asked:
the Completes
the Races of
and the Core Books

We are starting at level 3.

I have to many Ideas and am starting to freak.

Other books like Exalted Deeds are only accessible if you earn them and are then free.

[EvilJoe15]

Well since you plan on going epic a caster of some kind is in order. Beyond that I can't say. What's the expected level of optimization?

[GideonRiddle]

I'm not totally sure, but the DM has been playing for most of his life and doesn't care if the players die. So I would prefer to last as long as possible. And be useful.

I played as an UM in my last game and ended up killing the last 2 bosses, but that was due to the DM(not the same one) removing the caps on all spells and giving me an item that doubled all my 1-6 level spell slots for both my wizard and sorcerer casting.

I don't care what I end up being, but it's hard to be creative when your last DM has created everything that you come up with three times better than you can.

Sorry if I come off as whiny.

[The Glyphstone]

First, you need to know how the DM intends on handling Epic spells. If the answer isn't 'remove them entirely', you can basically be a full caster or go home.

Second, how do you 'earn' extra books to work with?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Venerable Dragonwrought Spellhoarding Desert Kobold Loredrake Stalwart Battle Sorcerer with the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage? (At level 6 it has 9th level wizard spellcasting and more HP than the party tank.)
For versatility and spellcasting I'd probably go Human Beguiler 1/ Wizard 4/ Ultimate Magus 6/ Spellthief 1/ UM 4/ Wizard 1 (CC ACF)/ Mindbender 1/ Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7/ Incantatrix or epic Ultimate Magus. Get Able Learner and you can be the party's trapmonkey or just a highly skillful character in general. If you get Practiced Spellcaster: Beguiler before 6th level you can apply 10/10 UM spellcasting to Wizard. Get the feat Master Spellthief for caster level stacking shenanigans, and after you've got 20th level Wizard spellcasting ability you can apply all your +1 level of spellcasting to Beguiler without sacrificing any Wizard caster level. Considering Versatile Spellcaster you should be able to get 9ths in both classes at 30 for twice as many epic spells per day.

Take Versatile Spellcaster and you can spend your Beguiler spell slots to spontaneously cast any Wizard spells you know of the appropriate level. With flaws you could even start out Begiler 1/ Wizard 1/ Master Specialist 3/ UM, considering Versatile Spellcaster will allow you to spend two 1st level spell slots to cast a 2nd level Wizard spell you've learned to qualify early. I would definitely drop Enchantment since Beguilers get the best of those anyway, but for a high level game giving up Evocation means sacrificing Invoke Magic and Iceberg, though if those books don't become available this will be irrelevant.

This makes an extremely versatile character, since you can use your Beguiler spell slots to spontaneously cast situational Wizard spells that you wouldn't want to keep prepared day to day. The Beguiler skill list with Able Learner and number of skill points you'll get being primarily Int-based will give you quite a few options for what you want the character to be good at apart from spellcasting. You could go Listen, Spot, Hide, and Move Silently and be sneaky and alert in addition to being a powerful wizard, able to keep himself alive after he's run out of spells. Or get Bluff, Diplmoacy, Intimidate, Gather Information, and Sense Motive and be a social wizard who doubles as the party frontman. There's a lot that this character can do, so you'll rarely find a situation where he can't contribute significantly.

[GideonRiddle]

Okay, as to the Epic spells IDK.

the beguiler/spellthief/wizard with the epic UM progression I'm not sure if I added this right but with Master Spellthief it seems either ECL as:

B/22
W/28
ST/28

or

B/46
W/46
ST/46

is this correct?

[Roc Ness]

If Homebrew is allowed, you could The Impossible Burglar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175242) for levels 21-30. Fittingly powerful for Epic, but it isn't spellcasting. Could be fun to play.

[GideonRiddle]

Second, how do you 'earn' extra books to work with?

Well from how it sounds for feats it is just if the DM thinks you earned it.

For spells (like from spell compendium) it is either DM thinks you earned it or you spend longer than normal to research and develop it.

[The Glyphstone]

Well from how it sounds for feats it is just if the DM thinks you earned it.

For spells (like from spell compendium) it is either DM thinks you earned it or you spend longer than normal to research and develop it.

I recommend bribery then, to get the Spell Compendium accessible. it's basically a must-have if you're any sort of spellcaster, even the half-casters.

[Saint GoH]

Hmm since he is making you work pretty extensively for additional material, perhaps a simple DMM: Persist cleric would be adequate. That way you could have your one trick ironed out early game and not have to worry about convincing him to give you additional books to flesh out your power level.

Then again straight up wizard pretty much does that with PHB only...

But yes, a caster is pretty much required. The more complex melee builds require additional sources (read as: like 48 additional sources) to be even near power levels of casters in epic levels.

[SurlySeraph]

But yes, a caster is pretty much required. The more complex melee builds require additional sources (read as: like 48 additional sources) to be even near power levels of casters in epic levels.

Well, with what he has you could do a pretty good Goliath barbarian/ fighter build for smackdown and ubercharging. It'd benefit a lot from Dungeonscape for Dungeoncrasher (combines beautifully with Knock-Down) and ToB for Thicket of Blades, and of course won't be on a full-caster level, but it'll be perfectly functional.

[GideonRiddle]

[COLOR="White"][SIZE="1"]
Take Versatile Spellcaster and you can spend your Beguiler spell slots to spontaneously cast any Wizard spells you know of the appropriate level. With flaws you could even start out Begiler 1/ Wizard 1/ Master Specialist 3/ UM, considering Versatile Spellcaster will allow you to spend two 1st level spell slots to cast a 2nd level Wizard spell you've learned to qualify early.

There is a feat in the Complete Arcane that gives you a 2nd lvl spell/slot @ lvl 1 and later results in an extra slot w/ a bonus to Spellcraft. So the MS seems to be a good idea as it will free up two feats.

[GideonRiddle]

Sorry for double post.

I'm trying to figure out the build that Biffoniacus_Furiou suggested with MS and it is clear up to lvl. 11 @ lvl. 12 it gains Master Spellthief and I lose all comprehension.

There are three ways that I understand it might work(CL not ECL@lvl. 12 B=9, W=10,St=1):

1. they all add together(B,W,St:9+10+1=20)
2. the lv. add up(B,W,St:12)
3. the classes add up individually(B:9+1=10, W:10+1=11, St=1+10=11)

Also does this determine the lvl of spells it gets, so (using the 3 way) the B can cast 5th lv, W can cast 6th, and St can cast 3rd?
Of course if either of the other two is the correct way then that means full casting at lv 12 in three classes.

[AyeGill]

Look.

The trick to power in epic level isn't really about your build, it's about how dip**** crazy you can get with your abuse of the Epic Spellcasting rules. Seriously. Why spend time making a build when you can just use simulacrum + ritual spell abuse to make a new creature with any epic spell you'd like as an (ex) ability at will, any stats you'd like, any size and any type?

That being said, for being awesome before epic levels, i recommend an ultimate magus build. A simple Wizard 4/Sorcerer 1/UM 10/Incantatrix 10/Hathran 5, in any order, is my first thought. You get circle magic goodness, you're an incantatrix, if you put your advancements the right places you get dual 9ths, and can apply so much metamagic to your spells, they would normally take up a +20th level spell slot

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

According to Master Spellthief, "Your spellthief and arcane spellcaster levels also stack for the purpose of determining your caster level for all arcane spells." At level 16, as a Beguiler 1/ Wizard 4/ Spellthief 1/ UM 10, you cast spells as an 8th level Beguiler and as a 14th level Wizard, those are your effective spellcaster levels. You get to add your own bonuses and penalties in the most beneficial order, so Practiced Spellcaster can be added on whenever it would be most beneficial, i.e. before anything else.

At that level, your Beguiler caster level will be 8th level base, +4 Practiced Spellcaster limit character level (12), +15 wizard and spellthief levels (27), +4 arcane spell power (31). Your Wizard caster level will be 14th base, +9 beguiler and spellthief levels (23), +4 arcane spell power (27). Note that when using Versatile Spellcaster to spend Beguiler spell slots to cast Wizard spells you know you'll use your Beguiler caster level, since that's the class' abilities you're using to cast the spells. You definitely want Versatile Spellcaster, it adds tons of versatility and is the biggest contributor in making this build more useful than a straight wizard progression.