Contemplative Text vs. Table [3.5]

[dextercorvia]

So I have always thought that Contemplative advances only divine spellcasting (because of the table). I was reading the spells per day class feature more carefully the other day, and noticed that it advances any spellcasting class that a character belonged to before.

Forgive me if this is well known, I like blending the arcane and divine in different ways, and really thought this one was neat. I suppose you would need Southern Magician or similar to get in as a single classed Wizard.

[Reynard]

According to the general errata, Text is correct over Table, unless a piece of errata says otherwise.

However, by text, Contemplative only advances Divine casting anyway.

[crazedloon]

actually the text is more interesting than adding to arcane casting (which it does not) instead it makes a character cast as a cleric of the contemplative's level

[Reynard]

actually the text is more interesting than adding to arcane casting (which it does not) instead it makes a character cast as a cleric of the contemplative's level

Er, no it doesn't. Care to elaborate?

[dextercorvia]

Actually, it does both.


Spells per Day/Spells
Known: A contemplative who was
previously a spellcaster continues to
gain access to more powerful divine
magic while following the contemplative
path. Thus, when a new contemplative level
is gained, the character gains new spells
per day (and spells known, if applicable) as
if she had also gained a level in the spellcasting class she
belonged to before she added the prestige class. She does
not, however, gain any other benefi t a character of that
class would have gained (improved chance of controlling
or rebuking undead, more frequent remove disease, and so
on). This essentially means that she adds the level of contemplative
to the level of whatever other spellcasting class
the character has, then determines spells per day accordingly.

<snip>

If the contemplative did not previously belong to a divine
spellcasting class, she gains the ability to cast divine spells
exactly as a cleric of her patron deity. Her spell progression
is the same as that of a cleric.


Now you may argue that continues to gain access to more powerful divine magic implies that the first paragraph only applies to divine spellcasters, but that isn't RAW, and indeed is the same kind of throwaway fluff line that appears in the CM ACF section. That doesn't mean that the Divine Magician is casting arcane spells and this doesn't mean that contemplative can only advance divine either.

[Reynard]

Okay, explain how you're casting 1st level divine spells without taking levels in a class that casts divine spells.

Also, don't quote the books verbatim, it leads to bad places for all involved (I.e you and the forums). Especially not from a PDF file. Geeze.

[crazedloon]

if the last paragraph did not exist you may be right on its advancement of an arcane class (based on RAW) however the existence of the last paragraph supersedes the first few if you do not have a divine class (effectively changing the spell progression of the class)
.

Now the question is how does one qualify for the class without having divine casting already :smallconfused:

[Reynard]

if the last paragraph did not exist you may be right on its advancement of an arcane class (based on RAW) however the existence of the last paragraph supersedes the first few if you do not have a divine class (effectively changing the spell progression of the class)
.

Now the question is how does one qualify for the class without having divine casting already :smallconfused:

No clue, unless there's a way to get 2 or more first level divine spells as SLAs.

[crazedloon]

well the only way I can think of may not even work...

If one takes paladin till they have casting take the first level of the class, than fall they will lose their casting and the class would give them spells to allow them to qualify for the class :smallconfused:

an odd interaction at least

[dextercorvia]

Southern Magician is a feat from the realms that allows you to cast arcane spells as divine a few times per day.

There is also a feat that grants you the ability to cast a few orisons. You can use a few methods to get that to count as first level. Heck you could dip cleric, and that wouldn't invoke the last clause if you believe it works that way since you would have a divine casting class, but it would still advance wizard.

Those clauses aren't mutually exclusive. It tells you that Contemplative advances a spellcasting class, and then if you aren't already a divine caster, it makes you one.

It's my understanding that fair use allows the quote of small pieces of information that are relevant to an academic discussion such as we are having. As it is, I didn't even quote the entire class feature, I certainly wasn't posting a whole class.

[crazedloon]

by a strict raw reading than yes you could indeed advance an arcane class with contemplative in this manner