[3.x] Elder Evils...

[Saint GoH]

What does the Playground think of them?

I have the book, never really read it and started perusing it today. It sounds interesting to say the least, but I'm not sure if some of the stuff is even usable...

Has anyone found a good place for Elder Evils in their campaigns? Either by following the storyline laid out for each Evil or otherwise?

[Halae]

For the most part I find myself creating new Elder Evils as part of the motivation for my campaign. One I ran was where three different organizations were built around the split mind, soul, and body of a deity slaying abomination and seven people were attempting to bring it back.

[arguskos]

The basic concept for each of the EEs is solid. Some are crazily overpowered (Pandorym, also called "Mr. LolBrainPowers"; Atropus and his meteor showers+stupid amounts of defenses), others suck (Father Llymic is kinda crappy compared to the others, the Hulks aren't amazing, though they're interesting enough I guess), and one gave birth to the stupidest clerics ever (Sertrous, and his "I grant any domain" exploit).

I personally enjoy the book as an idea mine, much like Exemplars of Evil. I don't do much else with it.

CharOp-wise, Elder Evils is notable for the Sertrous domain thing and for the Vile feat trick, but is otherwise entirely forgettable.

[TheCountAlucard]

There's also a feat in there, IIRC, that makes a coup de grace a standard action and gives you other benefits from it. Very cool for a baddie.

The scenarios themselves are admittedly a tad railroady, though.

[Saint GoH]

There's also a feat in there, IIRC, that makes a coup de grace a standard action and gives you other benefits from it. Very cool for a baddie.

The scenarios themselves are admittedly a tad railroady, though.

Yeah I definitely got that feeling. I was reading, err.... Mr.LolBrainPowers campaign and it had this random quest giver at level 5 that wasn't mentioned again till level 20. My PC's would go crazy before getting that far in a campaign. They would demand to know what happened to the dad of the quest giver and wouldn't relent until they found out or I told them.

But I agree with Harnel and Arguskos, it does fuel the the unholy fire that helps me make the BBEG.

[Runestar]

My friends were commenting back then how a single mass-death ward spell would pretty much trivalise the whole Atropus encounter. :smalltongue:

Makes for a very good read, but I have never found the opportunity to actually use them. I suppose you could use some of the lower-cr elder evils as end-bosses in your own campaigns though. Zargon looks pretty nasty at cr16.

[Gabe the Bard]

I've been thinking about using some of the ideas from the book for a mini-campaign, but maybe toned down for low to mid levels. The campaign may involve a cult of snake worshipers in the Chultan jungles, so I was thinking about using something similar to the time-table of horrible world-spanning events in the Atropus chapter. Instead of undead rising spontaneously across the world, people in the jungle would start turning into snakes and serpent creatures.

[Akal Saris]

I thought it was a worthwhile purchase. Some of them (Zargon in particular) are a nice homage to 1E and 2E bosses, while others have some cute ideas for villains or ending a campaign.

I use the Worm that Walks in a game I run. The PCs have encountered some of his followes and one of them has actually been replaced by an evil worm-thing simulacrum and is now an NPC.

For CharOp, the biggest thing is that you get free vile feats from a 1pg list for worshipping an Elder Evil at 1, 5, 10, 15, 20.

FREE. FEATS.

It's not actually that broken in practice, but it definitely helps with certain character builds. It makes qualifying for BoVD prestige classes much easier, it lets you take the Dark Speech series of feats with relative ease, and some of the feats are cool in their own right. Insane Defiance, for example, lets you redirect mind-affecting spells to somebody else as an immediate action, and that target takes -4 to his save. That is cool.

[Adamaro]

What's the title of the book?

Are these things stronger then epics?

All I need to know ... :smallbiggrin:

[TheCountAlucard]

What's the title of the book?Elder Evils is the title of the book.


Are these things stronger then epics?No, though Atropus and that psionic mind-thingie come pretty close. Their power is mostly-centered in the ability to bring a campaign to an end. :smalltongue:

[Wings of Peace]

For CharOp, the biggest thing is that you get free vile feats from a 1pg list for worshipping an Elder Evil at 1, 5, 10, 15, 20.

FREE. FEATS.

It's not actually that broken in practice, but it definitely helps with certain character builds. It makes qualifying for BoVD prestige classes much easier, it lets you take the Dark Speech series of feats with relative ease, and some of the feats are cool in their own right. Insane Defiance, for example, lets you redirect mind-affecting spells to somebody else as an immediate action, and that target takes -4 to his save. That is cool.

Minor correction unless I am mistaken, you get the feats for SERVING them not worshiping them. The difference being I can still worship a real deity for prc qualification etc.

[Akal Saris]

Minor correction unless I am mistaken, you get the feats for SERVING them not worshiping them. The difference being I can still worship a real deity for prc qualification etc.

Fair enough, I never noticed the distinction before

[AslanCross]

The book's great for ideas, though I wouldn't really use the scenarios presented as written. The monsters are pretty awesome, though they don't really come into usable range until pre-epic. That bodak general in the Atropus chapter looks awesome, though.

[Amiel]

I rather liked it; although I was rather disappointed in the reproduction of mechanics to fluff ratio. They reproduced a lot was already written, so essentially a lot of the pages amounted to filler.
As for being Elder Evils and challenges to the very gods themselves, their mechanics left a lot to be desired. In their current iteration, they only present themselves as a blip on the deific radar and not peers their flavour makes them out to be. They would make rather appropriate BBEGs to mortals however.

[Yora]

As someone who plays very rules light, I love the book because it is almost entirely fluff.

[Amiel]

A great deal too many pages were for the mechanical side of things, it would've been better if more pages were devoted to fluff; what was written was well written.

[Akal Saris]

A great deal too many pages were for the mechanical side of things, it would've been better if more pages were devoted to fluff; what was written was well written.

I'd agree with this. I find it unlikely that many DMs will run any except the final encounters as they are presented.

[KillianHawkeye]

one gave birth to the stupidest clerics ever (Sertrous, and his "I grant any domain" exploit)

That's no more an "exploit" nor any stupider than any other cleric who worships an ideal rather than a deity. Clerics have been able to choose their own domains since the original PHB.

[Halae]

That's no more an "exploit" nor any stupider than any other cleric who worships an ideal rather than a deity. Clerics have been able to choose their own domains since the original PHB.

ah, yes, I still remember that elf and dragon devoted cleric I had... unfortunately, the DM got fed up with my blatant rule manipulation and had a half-dragon elf sit on my head and fart until I died of suffocation. and to this day, I hate it when my DM tosses my group against grapplers

[Person_Man]

There's a bunch of feats that are ridiculously useful for the Binder and Incarnate:


Abominable Form: Living creatures with fewer hit dice then you that can see you must Save (DC 15 + (2 * # of Deformity feats) must Save or be Shaken for a number of rounds equal to your Con modifier. Also grants +2 circumstance bonus to Intimidate. Requires Willing Deformity.

Chosen of Evil: As an Immediate Action take a point of Con damage to gain an Insight bonus equal to the number of Vile feats you have (including this one) to any attack, Save, ability check, or Skill check.

Dark Speech: A potent low level Fear effect that loses effectiveness as your enemies gain hit die. Can also raise caster level by 1, effect item hardness, or command a Swarm.

Dark Whispers: Augments Dark Speech, making it Confuse enemies with higher HD then you.

Deformity (Madness): You take a -4 penalty to your Wisdom, but gain immunity to mind-affecting effects. Once per minute you can add 1/2 your character level to any Will Save.

Insane Defiance: As an Immediate Action when you are targeted by a Mind Affecting spell or spell like ability, you can take a point of Wis damage to redirect it to another target.

Evil Blessing: As a Standard Action you gain a Profane bonus to your Saves equal to your Cha score. This lasts 5 rounds. If you damage to an enemy with a Good subtype or aura, the bonus is doubled.

Slave to Evil: Gives you evil aura. As you gain hit dice, benefits improve. Stronger aura can improve Spell Resistance against Divine spells by 5, and can prevent Divine spell casting.

[Volos]

I have only ever used one Elder Evil in a campaign, and as far as I can tell it was very effective. It was the Worm That Walks, one of the most terrifying things my players have ever had to face.

As of lately, all my campaigns seem to end up going against an Elder Evil one way or another, but they all are custom ones of my own design. I have several that I fluffed and built in my spare time. My world ends up being assaulted by one or the other, either by being released/activated/awakened by the players or by a smaller bad guy doing the deed because the players didn't seem him as a threat. As annoying as it is for my players to make their own mess, it gets them more involved and they end up enjoying the game even more. I have yet to have a party go against the worst of my Elder Evils. Two different groups got a small idea of what this guy was capable of and they spent every resource (and one group turned baby killing evil!) to stop him from getting loose. Hopefully he will awaken with my next group. :smallamused: