View Full Version : Class suggestions?

Wolfgang Hype
2010-12-20, 06:55 AM
Not really sure what the protocol for this is as I'm new here and fairly new to roleplaying games (at least using anything but a D10). I've played World of Darkness for the past year and a friend recently invited me to join a DnD game. However I'm not really sure what I should play. I have a vague idea of what I want, but I'm not really sure how to get there.

My general goal is something stealthy and at least a little acrobatic. I'm a fan of the Prince of Persia games and would like something that's more or less ignores obstacles like walls, barriers, locked doors, and traps. Pretty obvious that a rogue fits that pretty nicely. However, two other goals are to be at least decent in combat and to have at least some spellcasting power. If my DM allows it I'd like to eventually turn this guy into a lich (yes I am a fan of Xykon) so I need to reach caster lvl 11.

I'm not sure how a rogue/wizard would work out. I thought about a ranger with a few rogue levels thrown in here or there for locks and traps (I read that Practiced Spellcaster could raise ranger caster lvl high enough to go lich).

So yeah... As I said I'm new at this and I don't know how functional any of this stuff is so any suggestions would be helpful.

2010-12-20, 07:02 AM

Peruse those and ask again.

2010-12-20, 07:03 AM
A Factotum would work nicely; they have a handbook here. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2720.0)

They get trapfinding natively, a caster level equal to their class level, and Brains over Brawn, which lets them pull off excellent things by having high Intelligence. They're also terribly fun, and while they suffer from having so many abilities it can be hard to tell which one is best in any given situation, you will likely pick up the basics of it quickly enough. Don't be put off by the length of the handbook, incidentally; Dungeonscape itself lets you build a perfectly serviceable factotum.

2010-12-20, 07:10 AM
My suggestion would be not to play this particular character in your very first D&D game. Allrounders are quite difficult to make and even harder to use effectively. While it certainly is possible to make such a character, I think it's something for quite advanced players.

And while lots of people love factotums, I don't think they make a good beginners class at all.
If a rogue or fighter/rogue isn't enough for you, you might look into Psychic Warrior (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psychicWarrior.htm) or Beguiler. The Psychic Warrior is a very good magical warrior, but not exactly made for stealth, though you can make him very artistic. Beguiler is a magical rogue which is very sneaky, but not a particularly strong warrior. However, both classes have a very good reputation for being well balanced and not that difficult to play.

2010-12-20, 07:11 AM
Well first thing that comes to mind for a stealthy, acrobatic, combat spellcaster is choose one maybe two of them and leave it there, espiecally being a new player.

Also what books are allowed? That will give us an idea of what we can use.

But personally I think the best idea will be to forget about being a Lich unless you are being a full caster, if you are only using core books the bard is stealthy and casting and can fight with the right build. If other books are allowed maybe look into Beguiler its a rogue/wizard style class focusing on illusions.

Oh and one thing that does spring to mind how do you feel about Psionics? A Psychic warrior could also do what you want without too much messing around with classes.

Hope that helps! :smallbiggrin:

Edit: Swordsage'd! But thats 2 votes for beguiler and psiwarrior though, and I agree that Factotum is a bad starting class for newbies, I had a hard enough time with a Rogue

2010-12-20, 07:19 AM
Yora (EDIT: and GodGoblin)is are quite right about how the factotum can be overwhelming. To aggravate the problem still more, you might want to talk to your DM about this. (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/psychic-acrobat)

It sounded very Prince of Persia to me.

2010-12-20, 07:20 AM
Which reminds me of the Psychic Rogue (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b), a combination of the Psychic Warrior and Rogue. I've seen it recommended some times before, might be worth a try.

2010-12-20, 07:33 AM
There is a feat that lets you spend crossclass skills for full points instead of half. There is bound to be a playgrounder with a better memory then I that could say which.
Anyway, this allows you to get decent ranks in the sneaky/perception-skills.
While being a class not usually made for it.

Given the first post I think you might als enjoy a Dread Necromancer.

They can hold their own in combat and use undead minions for various tasks.
And one could make one to be a decent scout quite easy seeing the class needs little tweaking and is good to go straight out the box, kinda like a druid.

2010-12-20, 07:53 AM
There's nothing fundamentally wrong with the basic Rogue, but it is lacking in certain areas. Scout is fun too, and you can do some cool things with the multiclassing feats available for Rogue/Scouts and Rogue/Swashbucklers.

Psychic Rogue is good, but since you're new it might possibly be too much to learn the psionics rules from the start (apparently some people find them non-intuitive and difficult to understand). If there's someone in your group who knows them, though, go for it.

Factotum is the coolest thing since sliced bread, but it can be overwhelming in its capacity to do *everything,* and it's got one or two unclear mechanics that you may not want to deal with.

My vote, however, goes to swordsage if it's allowed. ToB is actually very simple, and with a little advice (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=357.0) even simple builds can go a long way and present great variety. I'm not sure how it hasn't come up yet, "play a swordsage" is the standard response to "I want to play a lightly-armored guy with maybe some hitting and magical powers."

2010-12-20, 08:08 AM
I think i made a character that fits this, it's not optimal, but will do at least decent in a semi-optimized game.

It was something along the lines of:

Human (level 13)
Swordsage 1/Wizard 2/Human Paragon 3/Swordsage 2+3/Abjurant Champion 5
(i used a Focused Transmuter as a Wizard)

With Able Learner you have all the class skills you want. It's an int-based caster and has some high skill classes so you should be able to get the skills you want.

I gave this guy a shadow theme, with a bunch of shadow themed maneuvers, items, feats and spells.

It's missing trapfinding, but you didn't mention that ability.
Damn, you did, well, you could replace a Swordsage level with a level of Ranger (with the alternate to change Track to Trapfinding).
In fact, you could also change the other 2 levels of Swordsage to Warblade to get to 5 BAB 1 level earlier, if you want to keep the shadow-theme and use Shadowhand maneuvers your DM might allow you to do so.

It's got 9 caster levels right here so getting to 11 should be easy.
It's got a BaB of 10, but is able to cast Wraithstrike and Extended Wraithstrike a whole bunch of time to be able to hit easily.

I could give you more info on my build if interested.

2010-12-20, 08:38 AM
Which reminds me of the Psychic Rogue (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b), a combination of the Psychic Warrior and Rogue. I've seen it recommended some times before, might be worth a try.

Psyrogue makes a fantastic Prince of Persia, especially with some Elocater in the mix. Run on walls, swashbuckle, leap over enemies or dive through their square to flank them. You can even do the time reversal thing later on with Forced Dream.

...I need to make a character now, excuse me

2010-12-20, 08:45 AM
The OP's parameters fit a Beguiler/Walker In The Wastes fairly well. Beguiler is in PHB2; Walker In The Wastes is in Sandstorm. This would limit the amount of multiclassing and, by extension, bookkeeping needed, which may be helpful to a new D&Der.

The above presumes D&D 3.5.

2010-12-20, 08:52 AM
Beguiler/Walker In The Wastes works as a build? Ive always wanted to play both those classes but never thought of combining them, any pros/cons you list? As long as im not de railing the thread that is :smallwink:

Violet Octopus
2010-12-20, 08:59 AM
If Swordsage isn't allowed, I suggest Warlock, with some Rogue or Scout multiclassing for stealthy skills and trapfinding. Easy to make a decent character* (compared with straight rogue), easy to run.

"at least a little acrobatic":
At lower levels, Spiderwalk to clamber around on walls at will. At medium levels, Fell Flight, which can be fluffed as ludicrous jumping skills.

Combat wise, Hideous Blow is a trap, so either pick the Eldritch Glaive invocation from Dragon Magic or rely on ranged eldritch blasts.

*making a melee one is more difficult

2010-12-20, 09:20 AM
Beguiler/Walker In The Wastes works as a build? Ive always wanted to play both those classes but never thought of combining them, any pros/cons you list? As long as im not de railing the thread that is :smallwink:

Take Arcane Disciple EDIT: and Southern Magician/Alternate Spell Source. You'll need a WIS 13 or higher, making you more MAD.

2010-12-20, 10:29 AM
Magic, skills and melee capability, with good mobility?

Swordsage (from Tome of Battle) should be able to deliver. Won't get you all lichified though.

2010-12-20, 12:22 PM
Swordsage 1/Wizard 2/Human Paragon 3/Swordsage 2+3/Abjurant Champion 5
I'm sure a 5 class dip character is not something a first time player wants to try.

2010-12-21, 02:48 AM
I'm sure a 5 class dip character is not something a first time player wants to try.

Ah, you are right.

Considering that, i'd go with the previously suggested Psychic Rogue.

2010-12-21, 02:51 AM
Spellthief? Its a casting rogue. Or Ninja! (I am waiting for the flak, but for a beginner it isn't bad)

2010-12-21, 03:05 AM
For a First time player?

Rogue with Skill Focus (Use Magic Device) as his first level feat. I'd go Human and pick up Acrobatic as well, or Weapon Finesse if your Dex mod is much higher than Str mod (say a +3 vs +0).

Rogues are decent at combat if you can cooperate with another player and get familiar with the flanking rules.

Your first character, ignore the minmaxing, and stick with the plain, simple, core. Stick with a single, familiar class and your Gamemaster won't hate if you if you need help building him.

Your main purchases as far as equipment are scrolls (so you can try out spells) and wands (after you find ones you like).

2010-12-21, 03:17 AM
I'd vote Human Spellthief 1/Wizard 19. For feats, at level 1 take Able Learner (Races of Destiny, pg. 150) and Master Spellthief (Complete Scoundrel, pg. 79) at level 5 and then whatever strikes your fancy. You get Casting in Light Armor, CL 20, 9th level spells, good skills from a good list, and Steal Spell.

If you've got Complete Mage you might consider going Human Spellthief 1/Wizard 10/Unseen Seer 10, with the same feats, and even better skills.

These builds are relatively simple (at least as far as casters go) and should get you everything you want.

Wolfgang Hype
2010-12-21, 03:40 AM
Thanks for all the responses. I'm also glad that there didn't seem to be much confusion over the fact that I forgot to mention it was 3.5. >_>

So... just a brief list of what people suggested
Psionic Acrobat
Psionic Rogue
Dread Necromancer

Quite a list of things to look into. Beguiler, Swordsage, and Dread Necromancer (Escheton mentioned something about minions) are probably the ones I'll look into first though. I haven't even begun to look into Psionics yet and Factotum might be a little too open for me just yet.

Main problem I'm having with the system is there's so much I'd like to do (both with a single character and just looking at different classes) that it's hard to narrow it down to what is actually doable.

2010-12-21, 05:52 AM
with the wide array of things available across the books you can pretty much do anything you like :smallbiggrin:

The key is just to figure out how to do what you want, and as you can see lots of people have varying ways of doing those things you like!