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Drakefall
2010-12-20, 10:16 AM
Greetings playground!

At some point in the (hopefully) near future, I will be participating in a Shadowrun 4e game. The GM as well as all of us players are complete newcomers to the system and, seeing as it was originally my idea to play it in the first place and I am slightly competent at making working characters (whoo:smalltongue:), I have decided to dive into the deep end and try to build what seems to me as one of the most difficult, yet necessary, character types: the hacker.

It doesn't stop there though, oh no, because to make my life even more difficult I'd like to throw a little bit of rigger into the character as well. Just enough for him to have a somewhat decked out vehicle and the means to use it.

So yeah, any build advice for an orc hacker with a splash of vehicle rigger, or just any general tips for a shadowrunning newbie will be really appreciated. Especially any advice on gear, because I don't even know where to start there:smalleek:.

Books I have access to:
- 4th Edition 20th Anniversery Core Rulebook
- Arsenal
- Unwired
- Street Magic

Thank you all in advance.

GreyMantle
2010-12-20, 03:45 PM
I realize this isn't a direct answer to your question, but I feel I should warn you that the hacking rules in 4e are probably the worstwritten section of rules in the entire game. Both Unwired and the Anniversary Edition did absolutely nothing to clarify or fix them, either (the exact opposite in fact).

Now, if your GM is a talented fellow and you guys are willing to improvise, you can play with them as written. But be warned that they both:
1) are easily broken and manipulated in ways that don't support the themes of Shadowrun, and
2) involve way too much dicerolling.

The best option is probably to have your GM find a houseruled Matrix.

I'm really partial to this one (http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=48836), but it's by no means the only one available. You can find others on Dumpshock.

avr
2010-12-20, 04:02 PM
A hacker doesn't have to be a full time job in SR 4e, unless your GM is using the software aging rules in Unwired. Convince them not to use these rules at all costs.

4 ranks in the Cracking skill group and say 50K worth of programs and a comlink sets you back 50 points, which leaves you a fair amount of room to move. Unless there are house rules involved, 3 logic is plenty BTW; it's hardly used in hacking.

Aside from this the rest depends on what sort of rigger you want - a combat biker, James Bond in a tricked out sports car, an anonymous rigger who runs drones out of his van and who never meets face to face.

TheCountAlucard
2010-12-20, 07:03 PM
No Augmentation? There goes my suggestion of getting the Encephalon. The bonuses it gives to Logic-linked skills is pretty sweet. :smallwink:

And with the advent of Augmentation and Unwired, a hacker/rigger is capable of being obscenely-good at initiative. Back when I was playing one, I was routinely getting 40s and higher for initiative, and with five initiative passes, to boot.

Jumped into a Steel Lynx combat drone (or two... or ten... :smallamused:), you become very dangerous.

Trekkin
2010-12-20, 07:46 PM
If you can, grab the Evo Orderly out of Arsenal; it can ferry you around while you're in VR, and the medkit is useful too.

Don't get a one in any stat, and softmax whatever you feel is your most critical stat.

Get a mook or two. They can be tremendously helpful.
Get pirated software, from Unwired; rebuying it or patching it every month is worth a 90% discount.
If you can, take a Technomancer, Free Sprite, or AI as a contact; they have neat tricks.
Learn your role, and buy only those programs you need for it, and probably Armor.
Understand the difference between autonomy, captain's chair, and rigging for drones.

That's all I can think of atm.

TheCountAlucard
2010-12-20, 09:40 PM
See about buying the "Ergonomic" options for the Analyze, Armor, and Biofeedback Filter programs. Never, ever shut them off after that. And they don't count against your program limit, either. :smallamused:

Kalaska'Agathas
2010-12-20, 10:55 PM
I'll second getting pirated software chummer, and at the highest rating you can afford. You don't need a ton of Logic (though it helps for Hardware and Software) and you don't need more than a 4 in the Cracking group. Make sure you have at least a 1 in Hardware and Software, and a 4 in Computers. Other than that, you'll want Pilot:(Whatever sort of vehicle).

Now, do you intend to hack in VR or AR? Both have their benefits, and I find that it is useful to at least be able to do both, but focusing on one or the other is a good idea. AR has the advantage of not requiring your team to hall your useless meat around, but loses out on IPs and that tasty +2 dice pool bonus from VR. Also, AR hacking means you can shoot the other guy in the face when you need to. If you go the AR focused route then invest in Initiative boosters, be they from Adept powers, Cyberware, or Bioware (though this is just generally a good idea, mo' actions is mo' bettah). If you go the VR route you'll want really good Armor and Biofeedback Filter programs and a Hot-Sim modified simrig - there's no benefit to cold sim, really (except when you're being attacked by IC, but that's when you switch to cold sim or AR).

What else do you want to be able to do? In Shadowrun (at least, 4e, and in my experience) it is good to have one or two things you're really good at, a couple things that you're competent at, and a couple of things you're ok at. My current character is an Ork Hacker who can also be a Gunbunny when he needs to, act as backup for the face, and occasionally rig some drones. He's really good at hacking, pretty good at shooting and social stuff, and decent at rigging.

As far as your stats go, don't hard max anything at chargen, and as an Ork, you can afford a pretty decent Body (which is good, in the event you get shot) and don't really need to put anything in Strength. Also, don't go for the Caliban, get the Avalon and upgrade it to 6 and 6, it's cheaper that way. And use Stick-n-Shock ammunition, it drastically lowers their armor and doesn't (typically) kill anyone (which is good, 'cause the harm you take is equal to the harm you make. Well, at least proportional to. Usually.).

Finally, shoot straight, watch your back, conserve ammo, and never ever cut a deal with a Dragon. But you knew that already.

khylis
2010-12-21, 01:31 AM
Well since we're co-gm'ing - I'm sure that we can work something out for the original test run.

Of course, my suggestion as usual, is lots and lots of drones! (what? I like my little robot minions)

Vizzerdrix
2010-12-21, 03:41 AM
Hmm... Ya got me wanting to play now. I'm thinking I'll post up a thread in the PBP area after the holidays. Something for people who want to learn the system (like myself). Something simple.... :smallamused:

Drakefall
2010-12-21, 07:43 AM
Aside from this the rest depends on what sort of rigger you want - a combat biker, James Bond in a tricked out sports car, an anonymous rigger who runs drones out of his van and who never meets face to face.
I want as little to do with drones as possible. Maybe just one for stealthing purposes. Rigger wise I want a badass landrover-type vehicle to escape the inevitable poop-storm my group will create in, and ramp stuff with. 'Cause, y'know, ramping.


No Augmentation? There goes my suggestion of getting the Encephalon. The bonuses it gives to Logic-linked skills is pretty sweet. :smallwink:
I'll see if I can find this Encephalon thing you speak of somewhere...


Jumped into a Steel Lynx combat drone (or two... or ten... :smallamused:), you become very dangerous.
I bah the humbag at silly drones despite how awesome they may be crunch-wise.:smalltongue:


See about buying the "Ergonomic" options for the Analyze, Armor, and Biofeedback Filter programs. Never, ever shut them off after that. And they don't count against your program limit, either. :smallamused:
Sounds shiny, and, as a bonus, "ergonomics" is a fun word.


... stuff...
I wish I understood what any of that meant:smallredface:.


Advice of Awesome.
I'll definitely look in to that pirated schtuff.

My ork's prorities are set as follows.
- Hacker
- Car guy
- Can haz shoot things

I refuse to be the face. I've been the face for our group forever and I'm tired of keeping them in line. I'm not even great at it. Maybe goodish. Someone else can do the talking. I'm going to be the surly ork tech guy, dammit! :smalltongue:


Finally, shoot straight, watch your back, conserve ammo, and never ever cut a deal with a Dragon. But you knew that already.
I did! I actually did know that thing you said!

The question of whether it's worse to cut a deal with a dragon or say no to a dragon has, however, crossed my mind...


Well since we're co-gm'ing - I'm sure that we can work something out for the original test run.
Yes, but you're gming first, so I'll worry about worrying when the time comes to worry worriedly.


Of course, my suggestion as usual, is lots and lots of drones! (what? I like my little robot minions)
You know I hate summons and minions unless they're a horde of undead.:smalltongue:


Hmm... Ya got me wanting to play now. I'm thinking I'll post up a thread in the PBP area after the holidays. Something for people who want to learn the system (like myself). Something simple.... :smallamused:
Ooh... I think I may try joining that game.:smallsmile:

BTW, you guys are awesome. Thanks for the advice, and please feel free to continue posting it.:smallbiggrin:

Trekkin
2010-12-21, 08:22 AM
Then allow me to explain:

1. The thing to remember about the best kinds of hacking, the ones that let you do the most in a single turn, is that you're effectively in a coma for them; you can take physical actions only with great effort in VR. It therefore helps to bring along a drone designed to move you around while you're doing your hacker thing, and I happen to prefer one called the Orderly, since it includes a first aid kit capable of patching you up should you get shot. There's also a Segway clone in there that can work with less hassle, but the point is to keep the party from dragging you around while you do your job.

2. Your attributes all start at one, and it's best to pump them all to two and your most necessary ones to five, since 5-6 costs more than double 4-5 for the same increment of benefit. Adjust the numbers just mentioned as necessary for your chosen metatype.

3. Mooks are unrestricted agents, autonomous programs that act like little minions for you. They can basically do some of the easier portions of your job for you, and without occupying your time.

4. Unwired lets you buy software that is illegal at 10% the listed cost, but it requires either that you make a series of lengthy tests to patch it or steal patches for it. Without doing anything, the rating of pirate software goes down by 1 each month.

5. Technomancers (freaky people with radios growing naturally in their brains), their Spirit-like Sprites, and AIs can all do things that you as a mundane hacker cannot do, many of which are listed in Unwired. It's handy to have periodic access to them.

6. there are three ways to run a drone. The first is to simply tell it "do this, then this" and leave it to its own devices; the drone simply executes your orders using its programs to the best of its ability. The second treats it like a video game, with you driving it around in AR via your Command program; this lets you use your skills for most things. Rigging actually refers to "jumping in" and experiencing the drone's sensory input as your own, translating your output into drone movements. Where your Command program would go for many tests, you use Response. This also lets a drone you've rigged act on your Initiative, which can be handy.

In your case, you probably don't want a full control rig with nanite optimization and all the rest of it, so you will most likely be using the second to drive the cars around and so forth.

If I can think of more to add to the wall of probably-patronizing text I've already posted, I will.

Drakefall
2010-12-21, 09:05 AM
Useful stuff...
No worries, it didn't come off as patronizing at all, and I knew very little of what you posted so you are certainly being a help.:smallsmile:

Hmm... from the sounds of it I'd like to avoid VR. I want my hacker to be in his own body for the most part. Sticking with his fellow runners, hacking on the run, shooting some guys if it comes down to that and remotely piloting his batmobile when necessary.

In fact... if batman were dumber, a professional criminal, lacked kung-fu and used guns, was not rich, used his computer-fu more often and was an ork... then he'd be kinda like the character I want. So y'know, not batman at all.:smalltongue:

At least it kinda-maybe gives you people an idea of how I'd like to operate in general.

Trekkin
2010-12-21, 10:07 AM
AR changes some things from the normal hacker archetype: you'll want physical, rather than Matrix, Initiative Pass boosts, and two at minimum given that Agents and intrusion countermeasures run at 3 IPs normally. That, in turn, means delving more into street samurai or gunbunny cyberware (or bioware), unless you want something else to fight for your persona in the Matrix, since otherwise you're getting one turn to your likely opponents' three. On the upside, AR neatly defeats most problems with Black IC and other such nastiness, so a lot of the various enhancements and programs I'd normally recommend to keep hot sim VR and dumpshock from causing massive damage are simply not needed.

At a minimum, you'll want cybereyes with a smartlink, a datajack, and an implanted commlink, so that there's nothing in your hands or on your face that can get knocked off or dropped in the middle of running; if you'd rather be able to drop everything should the need arise, the effect can be replicated with skinlinked goggles, AR gloves, and commlink, although your GM may rule that you can't type effectively in AR gloves while holding anything (in which case get trodes). You may also want feedback clothing as an additional means of giving you data, if the GM decides that all those AROs in your field of view give you a negative dice pool to meatspace actions.

Sarakos
2010-12-21, 05:16 PM
As far as a getaway vehicle for your hacker/rigger to pilot i just have a small bit of advice in the form of a pair of hyperlinks:

http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/File:MPost13516-BatMOTIVE.jpg

Then there is this:
http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/File:MPost13516-trashMOTIVE.jpg

Trekkin
2010-12-21, 06:12 PM
If you'd rather not attempt to build the Batmobile (although I highly recommend you try), Arsenal is rich with possible bases on which to build fine getaway vehicles. In particular, I'd look at the Contrail; it has enough slots that you can do some fairly nice things with it (including a weapon mount, if your game is sufficiently violent) without being identified as a toy of the rich sufficiently blatantly to give your GM ideas. Make sure to get a spoof chip and morphic plate for it, too, so that you can play with the car's identity at least between runs.

EDIT: forgot to add that you need to give it gyro stabilization or a sidecar if you want it to drive itself.

TheCountAlucard
2010-12-23, 08:33 AM
Sadly, one problem with AR hacking, as convenient as it may be at times, is the factor of time itself.

What takes an AR hacker hours to break into, a VR guy can do it in seconds. If you want to "Hollywood Hack," you'll pretty much have to do it in VR.

Concerning Initiative Passes, it's like the others said, you're going to want to get a lot of the street sam cyber, very different from what a VR guy would get. My hacker, for instance, was a VR guy, and 90% of his cyber/bioware was packed into his head. :smalltongue:

And if you really want to take your job as a hacker seriously, read Unwired, no matter how much it hurts. I've read CCNA manuals that were less-detailed about how the Internet works than that book!

ryuteki
2010-12-23, 01:46 PM
I want as little to do with drones as possible. Maybe just one for stealthing purposes.

Even if you choose to forego the tastiness that is combat drones, I highly recommend 2-4 spy drones: At least one "eye in the sky" drone with a launch rack in your trunk/cargo bay, which has an upgraded sensor and comm package, improved stealth, and a satellite uplink; and one-three flying mini-drones with Ultra-wideband radar, IR, and so forth to case the joint before you go in. Why spend all that time hacking the security cameras if all you REALLY need is a mini-drone with a shotgun microphone?

By the way, give EVERYTHING satellite uplink, most especially your car, your commlink and any long-range drones. You may almost never need it, but needing it and not having it SUCKS. :P

Kalaska'Agathas
2010-12-23, 01:54 PM
Sadly, one problem with AR hacking, as convenient as it may be at times, is the factor of time itself.

What takes an AR hacker hours to break into, a VR guy can do it in seconds. If you want to "Hollywood Hack," you'll pretty much have to do it in VR.

Concerning Initiative Passes, it's like the others said, you're going to want to get a lot of the street sam cyber, very different from what a VR guy would get. My hacker, for instance, was a VR guy, and 90% of his cyber/bioware was packed into his head. :smalltongue:

And if you really want to take your job as a hacker seriously, read Unwired, no matter how much it hurts. I've read CCNA manuals that were less-detailed about how the Internet works than that book!

How do you figure that? VR only gives a +2 dice pool bonus, and you can hack on the fly or probe in AR just like VR.

Trekkin
2010-12-23, 02:52 PM
How do you figure that? VR only gives a +2 dice pool bonus, and you can hack on the fly or probe in AR just like VR.

The interval for the Extended Tests is different; for probing for weaknesses, it's an hour in VR and a full day in AR.

Kalaska'Agathas
2010-12-23, 02:55 PM
The interval for the Extended Tests is different; for probing for weaknesses, it's an hour in VR and a full day in AR.

Oh, right. Well, that's why it's good to be able to VR for pre-run intelligence gathering and suchlike, and then AR during the run (at least, in my experience).

Trekkin
2010-12-23, 03:19 PM
Oh, right. Well, that's why it's good to be able to VR for pre-run intelligence gathering and suchlike, and then AR during the run (at least, in my experience).

Yes, although I've played through more than one run where those 5 VR IPs being available through and one hour probing test have been vital; YMMV.

Besides, why go AR when you can strap yourself to a drone and have that drone move faster than you can?

Kalaska'Agathas
2010-12-23, 03:26 PM
Yes, although I've played through more than one run where those 5 VR IPs being available through and one hour probing test have been vital; YMMV.

Besides, why go AR when you can strap yourself to a drone and have that drone move faster than you can?

Yeah, it's good to have those 5 VR IPs when you need 'em, but I prefer to keep them as backup instead of going to them straight away.

And you go AR instead of strapping yourself to a drone because in AR it's not obvious that you're the hacker, and that extra bit of stealth can save your life.

Trekkin
2010-12-23, 03:38 PM
True. I wonder if there's any merit to having a network of those centipede drones from Arsenal link up (boosting their strength to the number linked in a single chain) under the hacker's clothes and move him that way? They're supposed to be about a foot long, and they could easily be thin enough not to be easily noticeable.

Drakefall
2010-12-26, 04:35 AM
Well I guess I could use VR during downtime, pre-run ifo gathering, etc. where it boils down to me just saying "Oh, I'm in VR now." and my lump of a body and hyper-speed actions don't serve to annoy my fellow runners.

Mah... Unwired is a daunting prospect, but I suppose I should at least try to read the important bits. Let mke guess, though; that's all of it, isn't it?:smalltongue:

I should actually be getting around to character creation soon. I'll post my attempts here when I do so.

Trekkin
2010-12-27, 08:56 AM
For a mundane hacker, the technomancer portions are of course of less than complete relevance, and a lot of the Matrix Phenomena chapter applies more to GMs than players.

Having re-read though it yesterday, you will probably get the most use out of page 32 through page 138, although I'd skim 1-32 just so you can attach a meaning to all the chapter headings.

Sarakos
2010-12-27, 03:39 PM
I should actually be getting around to character creation soon. I'll post my attempts here when I do so.

I actually look forward to seeing your character, when some friends of mine first showed me shadowrun my first thought was of making a hacker similar to yours. Some one who runs and guns and manipulates people weapons and opens doors, etc.

Never got to play him. I had no idea how to build him myself and the shadowrun players were 3rd edition vets who didn't understand the 4.0 matrix so they asked me not to play hacker. Game ended up not happeneing anyway though sadly :(