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grimbold
2010-12-21, 07:39 AM
So in brief my question is, are there any classes focused on scoring critical hits?
This came up for me because i was playing my fire emblem game and enjoying the swordsmaster a class based on getting critical hits with swords.
so are there any good classes that get extra critical hits?

Yora
2010-12-21, 07:42 AM
Such a character would have severe problems against constructs, elementals, plants, oozes, and undead.

Amphetryon
2010-12-21, 07:46 AM
Not a class per se, but essentially any class that focuses on multiple attacks, rather than tries for one big hit or ignores combat damage for other concerns, can potentially benefit from crit-fishing. The way I usually see this done is Ranger 2/Rogue 3/PrCs advancing sneak attack X, where X is as many different sneak attack boosters as you're comfortable squishing into the build. You'll want the Rogue ACF that lets them do 1/2 sneak attack to creatures otherwise immune - so you're not twiddling your thumbs against those monsters - and Telling Blow, so that critical hits and sneak attacks can turn into little novabombs.

trehek
2010-12-21, 08:08 AM
3rd edition:

Rogues + telling blow feat + weapon master prc + high crit range weapon. Also, some spells from the Spell Compendium allow critting (and sneaking) un-crittable monster types, as do some weapon crystals. This as well as other buffs makes caster multiclassing viable. These off the top of my hat.

4th edition:

So far the most powerful I've run into is an Avenger built to use and recharge the Righteous Rage of Tempus -channel divinity power. Note that this alone does not necessarily make a critical hitting build but a critical damaging build (crit damage with normal hits without crit extra effects). However, it's easy to build further into a full critting build, and RRoT does deal maximised extra damage on a crit in addition to maximised base damage according to errata. Use a High Crit weapon.

Togo
2010-12-21, 08:16 AM
The bloodhound is a prestige class for fighters/rangers that's based around two-weapon fighting. It gives bonus damage, str damage on every hit, and some nice abilities.

Alternatively, you could just be deeply unfashionable, and play a fighter. Most crit effects are feats, after all.

Greenish
2010-12-21, 08:26 AM
Weapon Master was a 3.0 PrC partially focused on that. In 3.5, I believe Exotic Weapon Master was intended as an update for it, but fails to deliver.

However, Psychic Weapon Master (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d) has many of the goodies.

Ernir
2010-12-21, 08:33 AM
Disciple of Dispater (Book of Vile Darkness). It's all about the crits.

Just don't get creative with Lightning Mace (Complete Warrior), and you shouldn't get books tossed at you.

Runestar
2010-12-21, 08:48 AM
Such a character would have severe problems against constructs, elementals, plants, oozes, and undead.

Not that bad. Effects activated on a crit (such as flaming burst) would still work.

I don't think there are classes, but I believe there are enough feats/abilities out there to field the equivalent of a class. :smallsmile:

Person_Man
2010-12-21, 09:14 AM
Streetfighter Barbarian (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) 7 expands his critical threat range by 1, and it stacks with Keen. Presumably you'd take it with a *4 weapon, and get a 15% chance of a crit.

But as others have said, it's a lousy idea. Why spend a feat or class levels to multiply damage (not including bonus dice of damage) some small percentage of the time when you can spend a feat or class levels to multiply damage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7165087) or add attacks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7066595) 100% of the time?

Popertop
2010-12-21, 11:14 AM
Such a character would have severe problems against constructs, elementals, plants, oozes, and undead.

Just get a bane weapon for each

Oracle_Hunter
2010-12-21, 11:17 AM
So in brief my question is, are there any classes focused on scoring critical hits?
This came up for me because i was playing my fire emblem game and enjoying the swordsmaster a class based on getting critical hits with swords.
so are there any good classes that get extra critical hits?
Which Edition? (tm) (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Tradesnark) :smalltongue:

EDIT: On the D&D4 side, Avengers are the classic Crit-Fishers (as this focus is called) but anyone with multi-attacks can legitimately focus on Crits.

Drynwyn
2010-12-21, 11:24 AM
I don't know of a class, but there is a construct from MMII, i think, the Nimblewright, that is focused around critical hits.

ArcanistSupreme
2010-12-21, 11:29 AM
TWF Warblades and Swordsages that focus on tiger claw maneuvers are pretty good critfishers. They typically dual wield kukris, but those can always be refluffed as other weapons.

Pechvarry
2010-12-21, 11:32 AM
Weapon Master was a 3.0 PrC partially focused on that. In 3.5, I believe Exotic Weapon Master was intended as an update for it, but fails to deliver.

Complete Warrior's Exotic Weapon Master was intended as an update to Masters of the Wild's.... Exotic Weapon Master.

trehek
2010-12-21, 11:34 AM
EDIT: On the D&D4 side, Avengers are the classic Crit-Fishers (as this focus is called) but anyone with multi-attacks can legitimately focus on Crits.

You were seriously ninjaed.


Just get a bane weapon for each

Seriously, just get weapon augment crystals instead of wasting pluses. They're in the Magic Item Compendium, by the way. Actually they're pretty cheesy IMO.

JonestheSpy
2010-12-21, 11:35 AM
Alternatively, you could just be deeply unfashionable, and play a fighter. Most crit effects are feats, after all.

Heresy, sir! Heresy!

Tael
2010-12-21, 12:05 PM
TWF Warblades and Swordsages that focus on tiger claw maneuvers are pretty good critfishers. They typically dual wield kukris, but those can always be refluffed as other weapons.

+1 Blood in the Water is fantastic, as is the raging mongoose line.

Just add in 7 levels of Disciple of Dispater, and you've crits coming out the wazoo, getter stronger every time.

dgnslyr
2010-12-21, 12:54 PM
Don't forget to throw in Lightning Maces and use Aptitude Kukris. Mmm, nothing like the smell of cheese in the morning.

Greenish
2010-12-21, 01:06 PM
TWF Warblades and Swordsages that focus on tiger claw maneuvers are pretty good critfishers. They typically dual wield kukris, but those can always be refluffed as other weapons.Though why you'd want to refluff a kukri (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KukrisAreKool) as something less cool I wouldn't know.

Urpriest
2010-12-21, 01:12 PM
Since the OP still hasn't said that 4e isn't what was being asked about, I'll mention that Sorcerors can still be pretty good at critfishing, particularly in epic. They're worse than they used to be due to a variety of nerfs, but they're still not bad.

true_shinken
2010-12-21, 01:13 PM
Don't forget to throw in Lightning Maces and use Aptitude Kukris. Mmm, nothing like the smell of cheese in the morning.
Ya know, maces are not that bad for this and you don't even need to throw RAI out the window the RAW abuse of an editing error from ToB.
Add Greater Mighty Wallop to your maces and your base damage will actually matter, so the fact a critical is 10% less likely becomes less and less important.
Streetfighter Barbarian 7/Sorcerer 2/Abjurant Champion 5/XXX 6
Where XXX has full BAB (it can even be Rage Mage, though it sucks ass). BAB 19, you just need +1 caster level (from items or even a feat; Arcane Thesis means you get benefits early, so does Practiced Spellcaster).
It's decent enough to most games, I believe. Use whirling frenzy for extra attacks, dual wield maces, if you take Improved Critical you don't even need impact maces. Your crit range is 18-20, base weapon damage is 4d6. Good low level spells are Wraithstrike, Wings of Cover (excellent with Shock Trooper) and Heroics (get the right tactical feat at the right time).
XXX could be useful to add Bloodclaw Master (for full Str on off-hand attacks) or Jade Phoenix Mage (for more arcane goodness).
All in all, looks like a fun build. I guess I'll try this in a game myself.

Loki Eremes
2010-12-21, 02:19 PM
There was a PrC called "Dark Blade Assassin" in a Drow Book (from forgotten realms) that gave you some features that increased range (stackeable with improved critical or keen) and AR for confirming your crits. It was limited to Drow but it stated other races could do that job too.


As Yora said, criticals have difficulties agains contructs and so, so maybe you wanna try SNEAK attack + PENETRATING STRIKE (variant that replaces trap sense and lets you deal half your SA d6s to things SA doenst apply normally)

Combine this with CRAVEN (champions of the ruin) and lots of attacks and youll be doing pretty decent ammount of damage.

Kaulesh
2010-12-21, 02:52 PM
If you can somehow finagle kaorti resin in somehow or refluff it as something else, that increases your crit multiplier to x4. Kaorti resin + Elven Courtblade ftw. Throw a d10 for damage, 18-20/x4 crit, two-handed, and you can finesse it. See if you can add keen or something on top of it.

Just imagine a rogue sneak attacking with that.

This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116491) thread has some stuff that may help as well.

true_shinken
2010-12-21, 02:57 PM
If you can somehow finagle kaorti resin in somehow or refluff it as something else, that increases your crit multiplier to x4.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....
Oh, my God, you are hilarious. That was like the best D&D joke ever. You should try stand up comedy.
http://www.superherostuff.com/OtherItems/RefrigeratorMagnets/Images/joker_magnet_laughing_2.jpg

Ernir
2010-12-21, 05:30 PM
HAHAHA
(snip)
HAHAHA...

I... don't get it. :smallconfused:

Greenish
2010-12-21, 05:42 PM
I... don't get it. :smallconfused:Methinks he's seen the word "refluff" one time too many and gone off his rocker.

All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy, after all. :smallwink:

AslanCross
2010-12-21, 05:48 PM
I don't know of a class, but there is a construct from MMII, i think, the Nimblewright, that is focused around critical hits.

As written it's constructed with the old crit-stacking rules, which is why its crit range is insane. They fixed the crit-range in the 3.5 errata.

true_shinken
2010-12-21, 05:56 PM
I... don't get it. :smallconfused:
Picture this.
Player: 'Hey, dude. There is this special material in Eberron that I'd like to refluff to fit our setting.'
DM: 'Oh, that's nice. Let me hear it.'
Player: 'In Eberron, it's a resine secreted by the kaorti - outsiders that basically want to kill everyone, hate everything, yeah. They don't have allies or anything and the very same article that presented them says weapons made of this so called kaorti resine are almost impossible to get. So I want to refluff it to something I can buy in Ye Old Magic Mart for no trouble at all.'
DM: 'Hm... what does this thing do?'
Player: 'It just makes my weapon's critical multiplier x4. Can it make it a crystal for Psychic Weapon Master or a metal for Disciple of Dispater? I mean, for flavor reasons, of course.'
DM: '...You actually thought for a single second that I was gonna say yes to that?'

Greenish
2010-12-21, 06:02 PM
Player: 'Hey, dude. There is this special material in Eberron that I'd like to refluff to fit our setting.'Kaorti aren't setting specific, and predate Eberron.

As for it's effects, that depends on the game: if you're a fighter in a party of druids, artificers and the like, it's not like getting the famed ribbon jovar would break anything.

ArcanistSupreme
2010-12-21, 06:08 PM
Though why you'd want to refluff a kukri (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KukrisAreKool) as something less cool I wouldn't know.

Oh, I completely agree that kukris are super cool as is. But the OP was saying that he wanted something similar to a character that was based on getting crits with swords, which kukris are not.

grimbold
2010-12-22, 07:51 AM
they all look good especially the psychic weapon master
however could somebody provide SRD links for the disciple of dispater and lightning mace i can not seem to find them

Eldan
2010-12-22, 08:00 AM
They aren't in the SRD.

Lightning Maces is... Complete Warrior, perhaps? I'm not sure.
Disciple of Dispater is in the Book of Vile Darkness.

Roderick_BR
2010-12-22, 11:58 AM
Weapon Master was a 3.0 PrC partially focused on that. In 3.5, I believe Exotic Weapon Master was intended as an update for it, but fails to deliver.

However, Psychic Weapon Master (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d) has many of the goodies.
Weapon master was kinda teared appart. It's "greater" weapon focus and specialization were turned into Fighter only feats (to see how weak these were for a PrC, just to start) and most crit booster effects were banned on toned down in 3.0, like several crit boosting effects not stacking anymore (no more 11-20/x2 critical rapiers)

Curmudgeon
2010-12-22, 02:33 PM
Complete Warrior's Exotic Weapon Master was intended as an update to Masters of the Wild's.... Exotic Weapon Master.
Actually, Exotic Weapon Master was intended as an update/replacement for three 3.0 classes:

Exotic Weapon Master in Masters of the Wild
Master of Chains in Sword and Fist
Weapon Master in Sword and Fist
See the official list of early 3.0 -> 3.5 replacements here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20050110x).

Saint GoH
2010-12-22, 02:37 PM
Disciple of Dispater (Book of Vile Darkness). It's all about the crits.

Just don't get creative with Lightning Mace (Complete Warrior), and you shouldn't get books tossed at you.

I second the Disciple... has some pretty stringent fluff requirements, but increasing your threat range by what, 8 or something? Is totally worth it.

In addition to a few 3.0 levels of Weapon Master (if yer DM is that way) makes for a wonderful full BaB critting machine.

EDIT: and 3.0 WM only states its critical affects don't stack with others like Imp Crit or keen, however if I recall Disc of Dispater has no such addendum's tacked on to its description.

Curmudgeon
2010-12-22, 03:54 PM
EDIT: and 3.0 WM only states its critical affects don't stack with others like Imp Crit or keen, however if I recall Disc of Dispater has no such addendum's tacked on to its description.
That's only good if you're playing D&D 3.0, since the 3.5 core books override the 3.0 critical stacking allowance.

Forged Fury
2010-12-22, 04:19 PM
Where XXX has full BAB (it can even be Rage Mage, though it sucks ass)Did Rage Mage get errata'd? My book shows 3/4 BAB (yet another shameful statistic of the Rage Mage).

true_shinken
2010-12-22, 06:02 PM
Did Rage Mage get errata'd? My book shows 3/4 BAB (yet another shameful statistic of the Rage Mage).
Hm, the brazilian version has full base attack bonus. Maybe it was an editing mistake.

Urpriest
2010-12-22, 06:06 PM
Hm, the brazilian version has full base attack bonus. Maybe it was an editing mistake.

Come to think of it, I remember hearing that the Portugese version of the Rainbow Servant had full-casting by the table rather than just the text. I just realized that this would likely be the Brazilian version as well. Maybe there are more examples of this?

true_shinken
2010-12-22, 06:14 PM
Come to think of it, I remember hearing that the Portugese version of the Rainbow Servant had full-casting by the table rather than just the text. I just realized that this would likely be the Brazilian version as well. Maybe there are more examples of this?
I don't know, but it's possible. Since things are usually released last here, it tends to come with printed errata and anything (my copy of Monsters of Faerun is in portuguese and has the web enhancement at the end, with everything updated to 3.5).
I don't know about the Rainbow Servant. The only books I own that are in portuguese are Player's Handbook (3.0), Sword & Fist, Defenders of the Faith, Masters of the Wild, Song and Silence, Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, Faiths & Pantheons, Magic of Faerun, Silver Marches, Monsters of Faerun and Complete Warrior. (I do feel like I'm forgetting something)

Forged Fury
2010-12-22, 06:16 PM
Hm, the brazilian version has full base attack bonus. Maybe it was an editing mistake.
I have the English/US version. Full BAB would make far more sense given that it's being beaten up with 5/10 CL. Your version doesn't say it gets a d10 hit die does it? :smallsmile:

Amphetryon
2010-12-22, 07:20 PM
Best example of crit fishing, ever (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6968457#post6968457). Enjoy. :smallsmile:

JKTrickster
2010-12-22, 10:33 PM
Best example of crit fishing, ever (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6968457#post6968457). Enjoy. :smallsmile:

That is the most hilarious thing I've ever seen. Wow :smallbiggrin:

Also do you mind homebrew? Because someone was thinking EXACTLY what you were thinking so they made this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132902). Someone thought it could get a little extra boost and turned it into this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152473).


Enjoy :smallbiggrin:

Innis Cabal
2010-12-22, 10:50 PM
Picture this.
Player: 'Hey, dude. There is this special material in Eberron that I'd like to refluff to fit our setting.'
DM: 'Oh, that's nice. Let me hear it.'
Player: 'In Eberron, it's a resine secreted by the kaorti - outsiders that basically want to kill everyone, hate everything, yeah. They don't have allies or anything and the very same article that presented them says weapons made of this so called kaorti resine are almost impossible to get. So I want to refluff it to something I can buy in Ye Old Magic Mart for no trouble at all.'
DM: 'Hm... what does this thing do?'
Player: 'It just makes my weapon's critical multiplier x4. Can it make it a crystal for Psychic Weapon Master or a metal for Disciple of Dispater? I mean, for flavor reasons, of course.'
DM: '...You actually thought for a single second that I was gonna say yes to that?'

They are also in MM3. So...no reason to refluff as they are not setting specific.

Greenish
2010-12-23, 12:09 AM
They are also in MM3.Are they? I'm not seeing them.

Kaulesh
2010-12-23, 12:10 AM
Picture this.
Player: 'Hey, dude. There is this special material in Eberron that I'd like to refluff to fit our setting.'
DM: 'Oh, that's nice. Let me hear it.'
Player: 'In Eberron, it's a resine secreted by the kaorti - outsiders that basically want to kill everyone, hate everything, yeah. They don't have allies or anything and the very same article that presented them says weapons made of this so called kaorti resine are almost impossible to get. So I want to refluff it to something I can buy in Ye Old Magic Mart for no trouble at all.'
DM: 'Hm... what does this thing do?'
Player: 'It just makes my weapon's critical multiplier x4. Can it make it a crystal for Psychic Weapon Master or a metal for Disciple of Dispater? I mean, for flavor reasons, of course.'
DM: '...You actually thought for a single second that I was gonna say yes to that?'

Where did I say I wanted to lessen the rarity of anything? I believe I mentioned refluffing it so it would fit the setting. It could be mythical unobtanium that the PCs have to steal from the gods for all I care.