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Fouredged Sword
2010-12-21, 06:56 PM
Ok, so I have been sitting in an office all day doing nothing and I got a odd idea.

One of the many reasons magic is unbalanced is due to wizards having the ability to empty thier entire spells per day in a short time, then simply rest for the rest of the day. ToB has managed to bring the fighter, monk, and paladin up to tier three. Now I would like to bring magic down to around tier 3.

To do this I want to change how magic is readied for a day and grant wizards, sorrceres, clerics and druids magic like class features.

Now I kinda am getting insperation from reserve feats and warlocks.

I want to make a list of spell like abilites based on the wizarding specialties. Evocation, abjuration, ect. Each ability grants the wizard something to do all day. I think an organisation like warlock list that you can pick and use at will.

The point is for the abilites to be heavily tilted twards one thing or another. Abjuration defends and counters magic, illusion avoids and fools, necromancy debuffs and effects undead, Evocation blows stuff up in a variety of ways, Conjuration summons and teleports, Divination sees and predicts, Enchantment charms and controls.

Each of these abilities are roughly as powerful a 1st level spell at level 1, getting as powerful as a 4th level spell around 17-20th level.

So wizards get spells they can use all day, how are they restricted. Well, wizards now must take a focus, rather than loose two other areas, they take thier spelllike abilites only from that area.

Now, sorrceres. What about them. I want to give them spell like abilites from any wizarding focus, but every third level rather than every 2nd. They get to pick from any list though.

Now spellcasting. Lets just cut spells per day in half. Cut them in half, round down. Now spellcasters cant just prepare everything useful at high levels. They must pick and choose what spells from thier spellbook to prepare.

Now to prevent some of the pain that will cause, lets let them prepare spells by focusing for spell level X2 minutes, doing nothing standing in one place. re filling slots they cast. Sorrceres need something nice so lets let them do it in spell level X1 minutes. Faster becuse they don't need no stinkin book.

Thoughts? How much of the game does this comepletly alter? I know that there will open a whole new set of problems with this, but does it seem like wizards and sorrceres will play more like tier three?

BarroomBard
2010-12-22, 10:23 PM
What about other casters? Do the divine casters still cast in the same way?

I think it might work well if you allow wizards and sorcerers to to use these spell like abilities in place of their lower level spells, but still allow them to prepare higher level spells.

umbrapolaris
2010-12-23, 01:07 AM
One of the many reasons magic is unbalanced is due to wizards having the ability to empty thier entire spells per day in a short time, then simply rest for the rest of the day.

it is enough already. must sleep "one good night" (8 hours) it is long specially in some dangerous area, wizard are not unbalanced, they are weak: lowest HD, short weapon selection, no armor, low skills points, one feat every 5 lv, low bab, low ref/for saves, 36 selected spells castable a day at lv20 (opposed to the 45 "any" spells of the sorcerer or the infinite 9d6 damage eldritch blast of the warlock).

what make a wizard unbalanced it is some of their spells who can break the game. not the wizard himself.

Havvy
2010-12-23, 09:25 AM
Look at a Tier 1 all the way project (Tome) for inspiration. Mainly, the concept of spheres. Limiting wizards to lesser spheres (you'd have to create them) and you could make them Tier 3.

Cheesy74
2010-12-23, 02:58 PM
+1 to the above. The current T3 casters (e.g. beguiler) all are highly specialized with a limited spell selection. The reason wizards and clerics are so strong is that they can synergize extremely diverse spells for whatever situation they're in. I feel like wizards could easily be dropped to T2 by making it much harder for them to just buy new spells, and limited further by forcing specialization on them (but providing benefits in lastability). To drop clerics down, you'd need to remove the whole "knows all spells" deal, maybe implement a prayer book like archivists. Druids are pretty much beyond hope, though.

ScionoftheVoid
2010-12-23, 06:14 PM
*snip*Druids are pretty much beyond hope, though.

Unless you split them into three separate classes, a nature-themed caster, a beastmaster and a shapechanger, maybe dropping the last because it's so difficult to balance. Or the PHBII Shapeshift option, which removes some of their features and weakens others, providing absolutely no benefits of any kind compared to the base class.

Lateral
2010-12-23, 06:49 PM
Maybe make the druid have 3/4 divine casting (e.g. Bard) and make it use the Aspect of Nature wildshape variant from UA?

Eldan
2010-12-23, 08:15 PM
I'd say split them:
A class called Druid, with the druids spells and a few other small features, with the spells rebalanced.
And a Shapeshifter, with the class feature from PHB II. Maybe a few more forms (utility forms), maybe maybe full base attack.