PDA

View Full Version : GM hates me.



FallenWarriorIV
2010-12-21, 11:37 PM
I've been playing with this GM for almost 8 years now but lately it seems like he's got it out for my characters. In every game I play with him, whether he's GMing or playing a PC, my character ends up dead by his hand. He's sent an army after my samurai, dropped my kobold in a room with approximately 50 save-or-die traps, forced my gnome into a rushing river with a DC 40 swim check, caused my Warforged barbarian to insta-rust, and attacked my Cavalier (pathfinder) in the first round of a new game with his Anti-Paladin (they are the opposite of suck in pathfinder). I'm looking for advice on how to deal with it.
It's making the game very unenjoyable.

icastflare!
2010-12-21, 11:39 PM
Have you talked to him about this? Is it happening to the other players and do they notice?

The Glyphstone
2010-12-21, 11:39 PM
Talk to him? Though if you're asking us, I would assume that has been tried and failed.

(Incidentally, a Warforged is as much wood as metal usually - instant rust would be like giving a human a severe skin rash/full-body burn...horribly painful and possible incapacitating, but not instantly fatal.)

FallenWarriorIV
2010-12-21, 11:45 PM
I have talked to the other players about this, they've noticed but seem to think he just needs to prove his dominance over others. That it's his personality and there's nothing that can/should be done about it. I've mentioned that I think he's being unfair but havn't brought up any specific incidents.

woodenbandman
2010-12-21, 11:48 PM
Well if what you say is true, he's a terrible GM and you should tell him about this. If he changes, good, if not, quit playing with him.

Elfin
2010-12-21, 11:52 PM
Yeah. A DM who DMs to prove his dominance is no DM at all.

gbprime
2010-12-21, 11:53 PM
Why would he want to start "proving dominance" now if you've been gaming together for 8 years? Did you develop a rivalry someplace else that he's acting out on?

Crow
2010-12-21, 11:54 PM
they've noticed but seem to think he just needs to prove his dominance over others. That it's his personality and there's nothing that can/should be done about it.

You should go around his house and pee on all of his household furniture. Then go grab him and dry-hump him until he submits.

Shas aia Toriia
2010-12-21, 11:56 PM
You should go around his house and pee on all of his household furniture. Then go grab him and dry-hump him until he submits.

I wish I knew you in real life. This is too awesome for words to describe.

Cerlis
2010-12-22, 12:04 AM
well i hope you are wrong on that theory, cus otherwise, what a ****.

incodently. I'd like to remind you and all (as far as i know, everyone here already knows it, but i dont think its said enough) its possible to confront someone without being confrontational.

There is a fine line between

"Dont you want to play?"

"Eh, nah i'll probably just waste my time. I keep getting killed anyways. I'll just play <videogame> while yall do that or something"

and

"No. THATS probably just a waste of time (with venom in your voice). -I'll- just get killed anyways (Ephasis on putting yourself as a victim and possibly adding a pointed look at the person in question). I'll just go have some fun with this (Subtext:you are ALL not fun because of him) while yall do that or something (Subtext: I dont care what you do, or care about yall at all)"

The former statement might need some work, but the idea is that it shouldnt place blame, and is just you concerned about having fun. If nothing else it might get you some sympathy. If they want you to play they may take a OOC hand in your survival, or maybe the GM will realize he needs to tone it down or he loses a player.

The second will just make the situation worse
------------
P.S. Isnt a common trope with warforged being left deactivated for a long time? Do they even rust? Not only are warforged as much wood as metal but if there are oxidizing metals in them I dont think it is very much.

FallenWarriorIV
2010-12-22, 12:05 AM
You should go around his house and pee on all of his household furniture. Then go grab him and dry-hump him until he submits.

I think I might have to try that. Nothing else seems to be working.

FallenWarriorIV
2010-12-22, 12:07 AM
They are vulnerable to Rust monsters and the Rusting Grasp spell. They do not rust naturally.

Starbuck_II
2010-12-22, 12:08 AM
I've been playing with this GM for almost 8 years now but lately it seems like he's got it out for my characters. In every game I play with him, whether he's GMing or playing a PC, my character ends up dead by his hand. He's sent an army after my samurai, dropped my kobold in a room with approximately 50 save-or-die traps, forced my gnome into a rushing river with a DC 40 swim check, caused my Warforged barbarian to insta-rust, and attacked my Cavalier (pathfinder) in the first round of a new game with his Anti-Paladin (they are the opposite of suck in pathfinder). I'm looking for advice on how to deal with it.
It's making the game very unenjoyable.

Have you mentioned you like to die?
Did you ever slight him?
Explain the army one first to us. The rest seem okay just really mean/tough DM, but how did he send an army: did you do anything traitorous?

tyckspoon
2010-12-22, 12:08 AM
I think I might have to try that. Nothing else seems to be working.

I was gonna suggest the spraybottle. Maybe the lightly-rolled newspaper/lightweight magazine if that didn't work. He'd go "Ok, FallenWarrior, your character needs to make 20 Fort saves. While you're rolling those, the rest of you.." and you'd go *whap* "No. Bad GM. No. Bad GM." Repeat until situation improves or he disinvites you to the game. Either way, you'll have fun.

Worira
2010-12-22, 12:09 AM
FWIV: Punch DM in snout to establish superiority.

FallenWarriorIV
2010-12-22, 12:13 AM
Have you mentioned you like to die?
Did you ever slight him?
Explain the army one first to us. The rest seem okay just really mean/tough DM, but how did he send an army: did you do anything traitorous?

Never mentioned a preference for the afterlife. I like breathing a bit too much for that. As far as I know, we've never even had a fight.

As for the army thing, a goblin coalition or some such was besieging a town. We had about twenty minutes to stop or distract them before they broke in and slaughtered everyone. So, the rogue distracts the main body and the wizard and I sneak in to cut the head off the snake. The main army noticed us collectively, swarmed us on the hill, completely ignored the wizard and literally tore me limb from limb before feeding my remains to the war-wolves or some such.

NiteCyper
2010-12-22, 01:39 AM
I like to grief people (in video-games), but that doesn't mean that I hate them.


1. Citation needed.
2. To add to *****: Too much punishment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parenting_styles) is also a bad thing. Balance. Closed fists are good for lots, but so are open arms...like for carrying small slippery bags, filled with liquid, that have handles. Did I proverb good?

http://www.canadiandesignresource.ca/officialgallery/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/store4.JPG


I'm looking for advice on how to deal with it.

Be happy. If you're an optimist, talk it out with them. Last resort: leave.


I have talked to the other players about this, they've noticed but seem to think he just needs to prove his dominance over others. That it's his personality and there's nothing that can/should be done about it. I've mentioned that I think he's being unfair but havn't brought up any specific incidents.

If it's true that "he just needs to prove his dominance" and it's because of their "attitudes, values, manners, faith, and/or politics (Brodzinsky & Schechter, 1990), then no, there's not nothing that can be done about it. These are things that parents influence in children, so I reckon that operant conditioning (e.g., hurting them via neglect, or pleasing them via in-game gifts) should be able to brainwash them to your advantage. If they are a GM, they will be harder to shape (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaping_%28psychology%29) due to their inherent position of power.

Gan The Grey
2010-12-22, 02:24 AM
I like to grief people (in video-games), but that doesn't mean that I hate them.


First, not attacking you NiteCyper. Just gave me the idea here. Second, understand that the following is a very brief summary of one aspect of a very broad argument, tailored and trimmed in order to focus only on the parts that have to do with this thread.

The point of griefing is to elevate one's own mood by demonstrating power over another individual. In a griefer's mind, he/she has the power to allow them to do as they wish or to prevent them from doing so. In addition, the griefer can do these things often without fear of reprisal or consequence to him/herself. For those that feel as though they lack power in real life, griefing provides a tremendous, if temporary, rush.

However, if a griefed individual fails to 'grieve' their loss of time and effort in a way that pleases the griefer, the griefer quickly becomes disenchanted with the situation and moves on to greener pastures. Refuse a griefer what he/she desires most - confirmation of his/her power over another individual's level of fun - and the griefer loses his/her power and will change his/her behavior.

In this situation, the GM seems to be griefing the OP, and ***** has rightly suggested removing the GM's power by ignoring his ability to control the OP's level of fun and participation.

If any of this seems suspect to you, feel free to read up on any decently in-depth examination of bullying.


OP: I've been DMing for a diverse group of people for almost 15 years now, and in all my years, I've found that the best way to handle problems like this often do NOT involve the direct approach. More often than not, directly bringing up problems like this quickly leads to defensiveness and finger-pointing. If your GM is a cool-headed mature individual, it is very possible that you can pull him aside one day and lay your concerns at his feet without him stomping all over you, but I'm going to agree with ***** on this one. If he gains enjoyment out of killing your characters, first work to eliminate the source of his pleasure and then see if that alleviates the problem. You might even recruit some of the other players to come to your defense in-game if it becomes apparent that things are going down that road again.

Hanuman
2010-12-22, 02:28 AM
I've been playing with this GM for almost 8 years now but lately it seems like he's got it out for my characters. In every game I play with him, whether he's GMing or playing a PC, my character ends up dead by his hand. He's sent an army after my samurai, dropped my kobold in a room with approximately 50 save-or-die traps, forced my gnome into a rushing river with a DC 40 swim check, caused my Warforged barbarian to insta-rust, and attacked my Cavalier (pathfinder) in the first round of a new game with his Anti-Paladin (they are the opposite of suck in pathfinder). I'm looking for advice on how to deal with it.
It's making the game very unenjoyable.
Oh FFS, warforged have wood muscles and aren't even ferris.

NiteCyper
2010-12-22, 02:29 AM
@Gan The Grey: I wholeheartedly concur with you.

Gan The Grey
2010-12-22, 02:35 AM
@Gan The Grey: I wholeheartedly concur with you.

:smallsigh::smallbiggrin: Good. I was so hoping that didn't come across as a personal attack on you.

EDIT Crap. Now the thread's just gonna die because, due to my ability present my points in a carefully worded manner, I failed to induce a flamewar on the first page. CURSE YOU, OVER-EDUCATED BRAIN!!!!!

*.*.*.*
2010-12-22, 04:46 AM
You should go around his house and pee on all of his household furniture. Then go grab him and dry-hump him until he submits.

I personally thought as soon as I read the op: "Marry his mother, become father, and proceed to make his life horrid and disturbing/mentally scarring"

0Megabyte
2010-12-22, 07:06 AM
My suggestion is simple: Don't follow *****'s advice.

Doing the sort of thing he suggests is both passive aggressive and makes the person who does it into a bit of a douche-bag. It sounds like the sort of thing a kid would do.

If there is a problem, be upfront about it. Acting like a brat isn't going to help matters. Besides, doing to others as you'd have done to you is something to keep in mind: Does this kind of non-participatory time-wasting seem like it'd be good if done to you? Personally, I'd find it not just offensive but puzzling. And relating it to relationships? Why would anyone want a relationship with someone who, instead of talking about their problems or just making it clear they're breaking up, acts in the manner described in *****'s post? All it would do is make things worse. And that's all following his advice would do here. (At least, this is my non-prescient prediction, not knowing all the facts. I could be wrong. Though in this case I doubt it.)

Akal Saris
2010-12-22, 07:16 AM
Alternatively, play a supremely cautious, paranoid character. Be the wizard with 12 simulcrums, or a lich, or whatever else floats your boat. If the DM is out to kill you, you might as well make it difficult.

Grogmir
2010-12-22, 08:03 AM
My advice - keep it simple - straight out ask him 'Why do you keep trying to kill me' This gets straight to the crux on the problem.

He'll either say a) I'm not or b) I thought you liked it, you're a good player and I want to challenge you. (One of the most common reasons DM are hard on a players)

B seems unlikely however so what if he says a?

Well either he's lying - in which case he knows you're 'on' to him and will hopefully tone it down.
Or he doesn't realise he was - in this case if he's a good DM he should react accordingly.

- - -

I don't like sorting what is imo an OOC solution by doing anything ingame and doing anything that provokes the issue will only make you seem bad. But I must admit if it continues I would be making a hardy but cowardly character thats always fearing the worse.

- - -

good luck hope it sorts itself out.

Ingus
2010-12-22, 08:10 AM
Alternatively, play a supremely cautious, paranoid character. Be the wizard with 12 simulcrums, or a lich, or whatever else floats your boat. If the DM is out to kill you, you might as well make it difficult.

I missed this guy above, when I was away from here! Your DM has to put up a Clone War (http://bertball.com/wiki/index.php/Manshoon) to definitively kill you. He can, but you'll be on the book of awesomeness forever.

Jornophelanthas
2010-12-22, 09:27 AM
Given that this has happened to multiple characters (presumably) across multiple games, this is not an in-character problem, but an out-of-character problem.

To quote the famous Oracle_Hunter on this forum: "Do not attempt to solve out-of character situations with in-character fixes." Therefore, creating a paranoid wizard with 12 simulacra will not solve the problem.

The only way to deal with this issue is to address it with the DM/player in question. What is not clear to me is if this person is the DM in all relevant games that you are currently playing in, or a fellow player in some (or maybe in all).

If he is a fellow player, first ask him personally (one-on-one) if something is the matter, because you get the idea that he is always trying to kill your characters, and it is starting to get to you. Chances are the problem will be solved right there.
If this doesn't solve things (e.g. he ignores the problem, gets defensive, says he doesn't want to talk to you, or flat-out says that he doesn't like you playing with him), talk to the DM, and tell him/her that there is a problem between you and player X, because he is killing your characters in DM's campaign. Maybe the DM will be able to mediate or regulate the game, depending on your game's PvP habits. Note that this may result in either you or the other player leaving the game.

If he is the DM, ask him (again one-on-one) if something is the matter, because you get the idea that bad stuff is always happening to your characters, no matter what you are playing, and no matter what you do. If this results in a good talk about what you expect from one another, perhaps this will solve the problem.
If this doesn't solve things (e.g. he ignores the problem, gets defensive, says he doesn't want to talk to you, or flat-out says that he doesn't like you playing with him), you should probably consider leaving the game. Do not do this without discussing it with the other players, though.

In no way should you accuse this player of anything during any of such talks. Even if you are considering leaving a game, do not use this as a threat or an ultimatum, but only as a last resort. For example: "This game is not fun to me right now because all my characters keep dying. I'm considering leaving it, because I come here to have fun. Could you help make it fun again?"

valadil
2010-12-22, 09:42 AM
I say fight fire with fire. The next time he moves a couple guys in to flank you, inform him that your traps go off or that they NPCs bump into your invisible tarrasque. Insert your own BS into his game.

Yes, that response is immature but it leads to an actual argument. You get to point out that since it is his game and he can create whatever he wants, being dominant over you is meaningless. Oh look, 17 Pun Puns just spawned to punish you for spilling your drink! I bet you feel like less of a man now! If you show him how meaningless beating on a PC is when he's the GM, you take away his ability to prove his dominance in this fashion.

Oracle_Hunter
2010-12-22, 10:10 AM
If you are ever unhappy with your DM, speak with him about it.

If speaking with your DM does not fix the problem then write him a polite note describing your issue and leave the game.

Fuller discussion
It's hard enough to change the mind of a reasonable person; if you believe that your DM is "out to get you" then it's unlikely that he's acting reasonably.

If you're lucky, your DM isn't targeting you deliberately but there is something between your two play styles which doesn't jive. Speaking with the DM will get this issue out into the open and perhaps the two of you can work together to make the game more fun for everyone.

If you're not, and there are irreconcilable differences between you two, then you must quit the game. Staying in the game means you'll be doing something that isn't fun for you - a waste of time when you're talking about a RPG. Trying to "change the game" into something you enjoy is going to set you up for head-butting with the DM; if everyone else was already having fun in the game this will wreck it.
A final note: never use in-game actions to "solve" the problems of a game. At best you'll get the momentary satisfaction of stickin' it to a jerk; but in every case you will be inflicting misery upon at least one other person without actually fixing the root problem. It's a bad move in every case.

Quietus
2010-12-22, 10:21 AM
Totally off-topic, but... that last link there? That broke my heart.

WeLoveFireballs
2010-12-22, 10:25 AM
One quick way to disenchant him with killing your characters is to never grow attached and just say. "He's dead? What a shame, here's my next one!"

I recommend online character generators for this plan.

Eventually he will probably stop and that's the time to make a character you like!

I still maintain after 5 years the best way to stop someone intentionally annoying you is to not be annoyed.

taintedfire
2010-12-22, 10:59 AM
I have had my share of tough DMs and my share of jerk DMs, and this sounds more like the latter. I thus feel compelled to add my 2 cents.

Wall of text incoming.

1.) No in-game solutions. Essentially the two most obvious of these would be a. make an un-killable character or b. intentionally kill your characters/act carelessly so it is not a 'triumph' when you die. The former is an issue because he is the DM, he will kill you not matter what. If you spend 30 hours building the perfect batman wizard, that will make your defeat even more satisfying ('lolz antimagic plane, you are made of suck and fail'), especially as it will make you that much angrier. Intentionally dying at first seems good, but will preclude any later OOC discussions. You can't throw 5 fighters into a dragon den, and then when that does not work, have a serious discussion about how he always tries to kill your characters because you have provided him with a solid defense that it is at least partly your fault.

2.) Mature talk. As above posters have mentioned, the first course of action is to have an out of game talk about it. This would be the last step for many mature individuals, but your description of this DM makes me doubt his maturity. It is always worth a shot in any case. Say something along the lines of "I feel like my characters are being singled out and killed and because of this, the game is not fun anymore." Remember that in this discussion, use 'I' statements ("I think" or "I feel like") and avoid accusatory statements ("You are doing..."). Make sure to have specific examples, include what about the situation made you feel singled out and how it affected the rest of the game (e.g. "You sent the entire army after my samurai even though the wizard was also involved. Having to spend 10 rounds watching my character inevitably get torn to shreds was really unpleasant and I could not play for the rest of the game."). Hopefully, you will get an explanation. Most will probably be in game ("The wizard went invisible and they saw you"), but hopefully you might get something akin to above posters ("You are a good player, I am challenging you" or "I did not realize I was continually singling you out").

3.) Reclusion. If the mature talk does not work, you really do have two options: leave the game or be a jerk right back. Some posters have disagreed with *****'s approach, but have offered no alternative solutions other than the aforementioned mature talk. Clearly if you are at the point of passive aggressive-ness, the mature talk has failed. If killing of your characters and 'proving dominance' is really what the DM enjoys, try to take that away. I will defer to *****'s great post as to specifics on how to do this. Take away his attention and he will probably loosen up a bit.

Leaving is a risky proposition, because although it might be a wake up call that you really won't stand for his actions, he may view it as the final win, in that he was so awesome (dominant, alpha, whatever) that he pushed you out of a group that you have been playing with for years. Him getting his satisfaction is not necessarily bad, because having won (in his own mind) he may cut the crap and let you play. Or he may escalate. In any case, if the game is truly not enjoyable, you have no choice but to leave. Again, use an adult conversation (it can be addressed to the whole group), say that the game has become not fun due to his actions and that you cannot play anymore because you do not go to D&D to have a bad time. If the other players agree with you, they may advocate on your behalf or leave as well, because if you are gone, it is only a matter of time before the DM starts picking on someone else.

I have had to use each of the above solutions myself in past games, and was fortunate enough that they all worked at some point. I hope it helps you because losing a game is one thing, but losing friends is worse.

Jornophelanthas
2010-12-22, 11:04 AM
Leaving is a risky proposition, because although it might be a wake up call that you really won't stand for his actions, he may view it as the final win, in that he was so awesome (dominant, alpha, whatever) that he pushed you out of a group that you have been playing with for years. Him getting his satisfaction is not necessarily bad, because having won (in his own mind) he may cut the crap and let you play. Or he may escalate. In any case, if the game is truly not enjoyable, you have no choice but to leave. Again, use an adult conversation (it can be addressed to the whole group), say that the game has become not fun due to his actions and that you cannot play anymore because you do not go to D&D to have a bad time. If the other players agree with you, they may advocate on your behalf or leave as well, because if you are gone, it is only a matter of time before the DM starts picking on someone else.

I do not second *****'s solution, as taintedfire apparently does, but I have had another thought based on the above quote.

If you reach the conclusion that you cannot enjoy having a player character around this person (either as a fellow player or as DM), offer to be DM yourself (if you enjoy being DM, of course). Be fair to all players, though, and don't kill his characters in a passive-aggressive manner. Just aim to have fun, and let all players have fun (including him).

Oracle_Hunter
2010-12-22, 11:07 AM
Leaving is a risky proposition, because although it might be a wake up call that you really won't stand for his actions, he may view it as the final win, in that he was so awesome (dominant, alpha, whatever) that he pushed you out of a group that you have been playing with for years. Him getting his satisfaction is not necessarily bad, because having won (in his own mind) he may cut the crap and let you play. Or he may escalate. In any case, if the game is truly not enjoyable, you have no choice but to leave. Again, use an adult conversation (it can be addressed to the whole group), say that the game has become not fun due to his actions and that you cannot play anymore because you do not go to D&D to have a bad time. If the other players agree with you, they may advocate on your behalf or leave as well, because if you are gone, it is only a matter of time before the DM starts picking on someone else.
Leaving is not a risky proposition.

The Player is removing himself from a bad situation where a jerk has undue influence on his enjoyment. So what if the Jerk DM feels like he won? It's no longer the Player's problem and if the other players in the game don't like it then they can leave the game as well.

The central issue here isn't "how to fix a Jerk DM" it's "how to make the OP happy." Retaliating against the Jerk DM might make the Player happy in the short term, but not having to deal with the Jerk DM ever again is better for long term happiness.

taintedfire
2010-12-22, 11:42 AM
"I do not second *****'s solution, as taintedfire apparently does, but I have had another thought based on the above quote."

I did not say that I supported his solution as a go-to. I said that if you reach the point where a mature conversation is ineffective, and you WANT to deal with the situation without leaving the game, *****'s description of how to do it by moving attention is fairly comprehensive.

Where I do agree with you, Jornophelanthas, that I excluded in my post, was that becoming the DM and running a good and fair game is another good alternative.

However, I have seen the passive aggressive thing work though, again in a personal experience. A player who joined our group was 1. a poor player (made many bad choices) 2. really really annoying and 3. very fun to pick on. After a while, in the umpteenth combat of a campaign, his sorcerer did the usual which was cast invisibility, mage armor, shield and fly and then delay while the rest of the party got hammered. The DM was fed up with this, so he basically sent the enemies after the sorcerer and captured him. This happened several more times over the course of a year and the guy was usually a good sport. But, then when something like that would happen, he would sigh and go read or play videogames or something. That made the DM feel like attention was getting pulled away from the game and he did not like it, so he stopped picking on that character and things went back to normal.

As I mentioned, all of the options I described have happened in my personal experience and worked out alright. And, as I mentioned, the list is hierarchical and, at no point, do I mention passive aggressive-ness as the first choice, only as an alternative to leaving the game.

[QUOTE=Oracle_Hunter;10019750]Leaving is not a risky proposition./QUOTE]

A good point, and perhaps I should clarify. It depends on the goal of the OP.

If the OP does not want to deal with the Jerk DM ever again, then leaving the game is the perfect option. I included that statement because when the people you are playing with are also your friends (who behave fine outside the game, but jerks while playing), leaving may not be the best solution.

In my personal experience where the situation reached this point, my goal was to 1. continue playing D&D with my friends and 2. have a good time doing it. Leaving the game was an all-in gambit and I was committed to not playing if I could not have fun in the game. In this case, the DM thought I was just being whiny and had not paid heed to the OOC conversation we had. When I left, he realized I was serious and the rest of the players advocated on my behalf. Another conversation was had, differences were resolved and the game resumed. No bonds were broken and I was able to continue playing D&D. The point I was trying to make was that walking out of a game can have consequences in real life if these people are your friends. You a. alienate not only the DM but the players as well, and b. lose a large chunk of time where you hang out which is now a time that you cannot spend with the non jerk people.

The purpose of drawing attention away from the problem player/DM is NOT to retaliate, because you could accomplish that by calling him names. The point is to make his jerkiness unrewarding, so he stops voluntarily.

You are right, the point of the OP is not how to fix the DM, but how he can enjoy himself. Leaving may be the best option.

Oracle_Hunter
2010-12-22, 12:02 PM
If the OP does not want to deal with the Jerk DM ever again, then leaving the game is the perfect option. I included that statement because when the people you are playing with are also your friends (who behave fine outside the game, but jerks while playing), leaving may not be the best solution.

In my personal experience where the situation reached this point, my goal was to 1. continue playing D&D with my friends and 2. have a good time doing it. Leaving the game was an all-in gambit and I was committed to not playing if I could not have fun in the game. In this case, the DM thought I was just being whiny and had not paid heed to the OOC conversation we had. When I left, he realized I was serious and the rest of the players advocated on my behalf. Another conversation was had, differences were resolved and the game resumed. No bonds were broken and I was able to continue playing D&D. The point I was trying to make was that walking out of a game can have consequences in real life if these people are your friends. You a. alienate not only the DM but the players as well, and b. lose a large chunk of time where you hang out which is now a time that you cannot spend with the non jerk people.
Well, you have to do it with tact.

Leaving a game, IMHO, should never be designed as a "wake-up call" for the DM or anyone else - it's just what you do to get out of a bad situation.

I have both left games run by friends and kicked my friends out of games I run. In each case I spoke civilly with my friend and made it clear that this was a game issue, not a personal one. You can be friends with people who are not fun to game with - or people who are not well suited for particular roles.

Anecdotes
In one case I was DMing a friend of mine in a dungeon crawling campaign and she was clearly unhappy. She missed a lot of games, was bored and disruptive when she was there, and generally didn't engage with my premises. I spoke with her and figured out that what she really wanted was a purely social game - something closer to a Vampire LARP than D&D. So I explained that it was OK for her to leave my game if she's not having fun and encouraged her to try and set up the sort of game she wanted to play. I'm still waiting on the game, but aside from that we're good :smallbiggrin:

In a second case I was playing in a heavily houseruled D&D3.5 game in which we used dice-rolled stats (3d6, six times) and were forced to play only NPC classes. I'm not a huge 3.5 fan to start with and I had serious doubts about the houserules - but the guy running it was a friend of mine I hadn't hung out with in years, and a well-respected DM. So I tried it out and after several games I realized I was exhibiting Bad Player Behavior: bitching to other Players behind the DM's back, being loudly incredulous of absurd developments and basically being a little jerk.

Now, I'm glad to say the DM (and other Players, apparently) didn't mind my actions but I knew that I was unhappy and that eventually I'd become a Problem Player. So I thought it over and wrote the DM a short email saying that I thought the game wasn't working out for me and that I'd better quit. Short and to the point. The DM, being a good guy generally, said he understood and asked if I could elaborate on what was bothering me. So I listed my big three concerns and provided suggestions on how to fix it. He replied appreciative of my input but declined to follow my most important suggestion. The other members of the party told me later that the game improved somewhat after I left, but that it was still much the same. The good news is that some of the players seemed to enjoy that type of playstyle so at least they're all having a good time - and I have more time to run & play the sorts of games I enjoy.
Y'see, it's all in how you handle it. If you engage with the problem person with respect and dignity then you can extract yourself from an awkward situation with a minimum of spillover. Sure, it doesn't work in every case but - IMHO - anyone who throws a hissy fit over a respectful withdrawal is not someone I'd like to hang out with anyways.

Remember that you can always hang out with your gaming friends in ways that don't involve gaming. Forcing yourself to remain in a situation which is distasteful for the sake of socializing with friends is not a good long term strategy for either yourself or your relationships.

Jornophelanthas
2010-12-22, 01:06 PM
*****'s method is mostly applicable to a situation where you are forcibly spending time with a bully, e.g. children in a playground, or adults in a (somewhat) committed relationship. In such circumstances, you cannot avoid the bully's presence, but you can avoid interaction as much as possible, which appears to be *****'s main point. This is indeed passive-aggressive, as a defense mechanism against the bully's more active aggression.

However, just distancing yourself from the entire situation, i.e. avoiding the bully's presence, eliminates the necessity for avoiding interaction, because there is none. Not all situations allow for this, though. To some, gaming is one of those, to others it is not.

Chen
2010-12-22, 01:38 PM
Your initial statement of breaking up was fine. The rest of your initial post that said to act in a ridiculous manner while continuing to game with the person was the childish and passive aggressive part.

0Megabyte
2010-12-22, 01:49 PM
That's not what you said. Walking away from a bully is fine. Having nothing more to do with the person is fine, and perhaps the proper method!

Going into the weird theatrics that you described in your post, however, is not fine. Things like this:

"If he says, "My anti-Paladin heads over to the resurrected cavalier and says, 'Ha ha, you're lucky to be alive,'" then you might respond by not addressing him at all: "My character heads over to the wizard and asks if he needs any help getting ready. If not, we head out for the mission."

or this:

"
If his character is setting up a flanking attack, great for him, but you're busy working with another character. Turn your attention there. If he presses you directly -- "Hey, I've got a flanking opportunity, what you're doing there is sub-optimal, so stop it," you can simply respond by saying, "Hey guys, looks like he's set up a great flanking opportunity, but I have other plans, so if anyone wants dibs on that, be my guest." "

is not walking away from a bully. Drawing things out in that manner is passive aggressive, and believe me, I know passive-aggressive.

"How do you (figuratively break up, at least temporarily if not permanently)? Well, first, you don't have to talk it over with him. You already know you want to break up. So you just stop interacting like this."

This mindset, and all that stems from it, is the thing I dislike. I could be grossly mis-characterizing your ideas, I admit that, and I am open to correction, but nevertheless it seems to me the proper way to either state the problem outright in a mature manner, or leave entirely. Trying to act this way as though the other person is a child to be disciplined is not only wrong-headed, but demeaning. It's better to treat them as adults. And if that means ultimately telling said adult to go do anatomically impossible stunts, then go ahead.

Now, some of what you said is fine. The stuff about stating, outright, that "x isn't fun for me, as a player. How can we go about this in a different way" is perfectly good advice, and the sort of thing that should be done when there's a problem. When I've DMed in the past, this sort of comment is really important. I've had players go "I liked last session a lot better than this one." I had to figure out what I did differently that they didn't like. It was instructive.

And so, I'll have to ask forgiveness on criticizing your post in such a blanket statement. I don't disagree with everything in your post, and I overreached.

Loki Eremes
2010-12-22, 02:45 PM
1.) No in-game solutions.

2.) Mature talk.

3.) Reclusion.

Leaving is a risky proposition, because although it might be a wake up call that you really won't stand for his actions, he may view it as the final win, in that he was so awesome (dominant, alpha, whatever) that he pushed you out of a group that you have been playing with for years. Him getting his satisfaction is not necessarily bad, because having won (in his own mind) he may cut the crap and let you play. Or he may escalate. In any case, if the game is truly not enjoyable, you have no choice but to leave. Again, use an adult conversation (it can be addressed to the whole group), say that the game has become not fun due to his actions and that you cannot play anymore because you do not go to D&D to have a bad time. If the other players agree with you, they may advocate on your behalf or leave as well, because if you are gone, it is only a matter of time before the DM starts picking on someone else.

I have had to use each of the above solutions myself in past games, and was fortunate enough that they all worked at some point. I hope it helps you because losing a game is one thing, but losing friends is worse.


Sry Taintedfire, shortened your post a little :smalltongue:

Well, this kind of childish behavior (DM's) is not what you need when playing RPGs.
RPGs are played best when a group of people gets along.

Those 3 solutions stated before are recomendable courses of action to deal with this situation. But the best is always mature talk.
Let him know your are getting freaked out by the way he acts.

LEAVING is also an option. This is something about yourself: if you re not enjoying the game, why would you stay?

If he thinks that "he won" he is an ******* and another one will take your place on the table, and the process will reapeat itself.
Eventually he will be left alone or someone will make him know his place.



If none of the above works, smash his teeth with the table. Not very orthodox, but will help you showing dominance.
Worked for me countless times

Tyndmyr
2010-12-22, 03:28 PM
I have talked to the other players about this, they've noticed but seem to think he just needs to prove his dominance over others. That it's his personality and there's nothing that can/should be done about it. I've mentioned that I think he's being unfair but havn't brought up any specific incidents.

Just because it's part of his personality doesn't mean nothing can/should be done about it.

Sometimes, people change. Sometimes, they really need to. If you feel the need to prove dominance over others in a cooperative game...especially if it's constant, then that speaks to something that's gonna need changing. At least, if you all want the games to not be filled with suck. Of course, you can't very well force him to change. You can ask him to, or eventually kick him out, or leave yourself, or just accept that the game is going to be you dying over and over. There's not really a lot of other options.

One thing worth trying is having someone else DM for a bit. Preferably someone who doesn't mind keeping a lid on pvp.

nedz
2010-12-22, 04:05 PM
I still maintain after 5 years the best way to stop someone intentionally annoying you is to not be annoyed.

Thats good advice, but better is to pretend to enjoy the experience.
"Excellent - I was bored with that character anyway"
(You can act can't you? Come on, you're a roleplayer :smallsmile:)
This usually annoys them and so they give up on the idea, since they were doing it for kicks.

FallenWarriorIV
2010-12-22, 08:01 PM
Thats good advice, but better is to pretend to enjoy the experience.
"Excellent - I was bored with that character anyway"
(You can act can't you? Come on, you're a roleplayer :smallsmile:)
This usually annoys them and so they give up on the idea, since they were doing it for kicks.

Hard for me to pretend to be bored with a character after five minutes of a game. Also, update. I rerolled an alchemist after the cavalier and was killed in three minutes this time. Wooo.

Considering taking Jornophelanthas' suggestion and DMing myself, but i fear he'll just powerbuild to break the game instead of my character. Really don't want to leave the game. I've known him for 12 years or more.

Also, I did try confronting him in today's game. He denied it completely.

The Glyphstone
2010-12-22, 08:35 PM
Hard for me to pretend to be bored with a character after five minutes of a game. Also, update. I rerolled an alchemist after the cavalier and was killed in three minutes this time. Wooo.

Considering taking Jornophelanthas' suggestion and DMing myself, but i fear he'll just powerbuild to break the game instead of my character. Really don't want to leave the game. I've known him for 12 years or more.

Also, I did try confronting him in today's game. He denied it completely.

Deny all his characters, or kill him equally arbitrarily? Since you've tried talking to him, and don't want to leave, try fighting fire with fire. I recommend meteors falling from the sky, they're both fun and amazingly un-subtle.

Susano-wo
2010-12-22, 09:02 PM
Hard for me to pretend to be bored with a character after five minutes of a game. Also, update. I rerolled an alchemist after the cavalier and was killed in three minutes this time. Wooo.

Considering taking Jornophelanthas' suggestion and DMing myself, but i fear he'll just powerbuild to break the game instead of my character. Really don't want to leave the game. I've known him for 12 years or more.

Also, I did try confronting him in today's game. He denied it completely.

Where is your DM? isn't the problem guy a PC in this one? That sort of griefing should not be tolerated. Hell, where are the other players? I know I have no context, but most of my characters would react quite negatively to the Anti-Paladin's behavior.:smallconfused:

The Glyphstone
2010-12-22, 09:03 PM
Where is your DM? isn't the problem guy a PC in this one? That sort of griefing should not be tolerated. Hell, where are the other players? I know I have no context, but most of my characters would react quite negatively to the Anti-Paladin's behavior.:smallconfused:

This is the DM. He's tailoring encounters to kill the OP's characters, or just arbitrarily fiating them to death.

Susano-wo
2010-12-22, 09:15 PM
I've been playing with this GM for almost 8 years now but lately it seems like he's got it out for my characters. In every game I play with him, whether he's GMing or playing a PC, my character ends up dead by his hand. [snip] and attacked my Cavalier (pathfinder) in the first round of a new game with his Anti-Paladin (they are the opposite of suck in pathfinder). I'm looking for advice on how to deal with it.
It's making the game very unenjoyable.
[emphasis mine]
use of "his Anti-Paladin" makes it sound like its a PC. In any case my second question still stands:smallbiggrin:

FallenWarriorIV
2010-12-22, 09:16 PM
This person is commonly the GM but is currently a PC with me.

Susano-wo
2010-12-22, 09:35 PM
:smallcool:
sorry, had to strut my stuff. So...why is your GM not preventing the griefing, or at least providing realistinc consequences in game? Also, why don't the players just, play their characters and react negatively toward this guy?

Cerlis
2010-12-22, 09:42 PM
Hide behind an army of dead bards

Jornophelanthas
2010-12-23, 07:19 AM
I rerolled an alchemist after the cavalier and was killed in three minutes this time. Wooo.

Also, I did try confronting him in today's game. He denied it completely.

If he totally denies specifically targeting your characters all the time, the next logical step would be to ask him what you're supposed to think if every single one of your characters gets killed shortly after introduction, and by his hand. Ask him to explain the facts.

(There could be a logical explanation, but given the anti-paladin's 2 recent kills, I don't think you should accept it if he claims it's "just a coincidence".)

Also, I second Susano-wo. You should expect some support from the others players/DM. If they say "that's just his need to prove himself", you can insist that it may be fine for them, but it's not good enough for you.

If nothing changes, and nobody else seems to think there is a problem, then you should seriously re-evaluate if these people are worth your time. Don't consider how much fun you could have, but how much fun you're actually having, because it's not likely to improve. If you conclude from this that you're still having fun, you should accept the situation. But if you conclude that you're enjoying yourself more by staying home, don't shrink back from leaving the group. Or at least from playing as a PC.

Also, if you worry about this player from creating problems while you are DM, you can anticipate this. Powerbuild all your NPCs too (especially the friendly ones that you don't want killed by him and their bodyguards). If the player still manages to disrupt your plot, just adapt the plot to have him face the consequences.
("You just killed the wise king in his own throneroom while he was rewarding you, and escaped too? Well, you and your companions are now wanted for high treason, and the old king's not-so-wise-but-very-vengeful son (who is level 20) is personally leading the hunt. You only have the option to flee into the open arms of the invading undead legion that could have been stopped if the wise king had lived.")

Finally, is there a chance that the entire group is trying to get rid of you, (or that this one player is trying to bully you out of the group, and the rest knows this and is okay with that), and they're waiting for you to take the hint? If this is so, there is no reason to stay at all, because in this case these people are not your friends.

Grogmir
2010-12-23, 08:30 AM
Originally Posted by FallenWarriorIV
Also, I did try confronting him in today's game. He denied it completely.


Well thats not good news - even worse if he continues to do it afterwards - as if he didn't think there was a problem before then he knows there is now - yet carries on doing it = two hat.

Next step I guess is to say 'well the last two PCs were killed by you within one session' So you mind toning down the PvP?

At that point you've made him a straight up request (one he should have already realised though) to stop. If he continues - well time to take that long walk i'm afraid.

Good Luck

Psyx
2010-12-23, 08:51 AM
Leaving is a risky proposition, because although it might be a wake up call that you really won't stand for his actions, he may view it as the final win, in that he was so awesome (dominant, alpha, whatever) that he pushed you out of a group that you have been playing with for years.

That's only 'risky' if you give a flying fig what the guy actually thinks. The reality of the situation is that he's down a player and you're enjoying your Tuesday/whatever night a lot more without him.

Over-combative personalities are only a problem if you also like weeing up trees. You only win by walking away with a smile on your face.

Sipex
2010-12-23, 11:14 AM
Okay, I can see how leaving might not be a good idea.

Say the OP has gamed with these people forever and they're his friends (except the DM it seems).

Well, the alternative to leaving is to kick him out. This would involve talking to the other players to see if they agree.

"Kick him out? But he's the DM!" you might say.

Well yes, this might be true but being the DM does not give you control of the group nor any kind of immunity. If everyone is in agreement, he leaves.

You'll need to elect or find a new DM of course.

I would recommend talking to him about it first though, maturely. Then decide what solution is best for you after.

Oracle_Hunter
2010-12-23, 11:32 AM
Okay, I can see how leaving might not be a good idea.

Say the OP has gamed with these people forever and they're his friends (except the DM it seems).

Well, the alternative to leaving is to kick him out. This would involve talking to the other players to see if they agree.

"Kick him out? But he's the DM!" you might say.

Well yes, this might be true but being the DM does not give you control of the group nor any kind of immunity. If everyone is in agreement, he leaves.

You'll need to elect or find a new DM of course.

I would recommend talking to him about it first though, maturely. Then decide what solution is best for you after.
:smalleek:

You don't kick a DM out of his game! I mean, it's not like he's going to give the new DM his campaign notes or something.

If a DM isn't good for a game, the Players need to talk to him about their problems or tell him they're all quiting and starting up a new campaign.

Sipex
2010-12-23, 11:46 AM
Ah, misunderstanding.

1) He's currently not the DM. This was my own folly.

2) If he was the DM I wasn't suggesting continuing the game on obviously, you'd have to start a new campaign. It would be a lot like "All of us are leaving your game and by that we mean, you're not invited to game night anymore."

I did mean to imply that you should, as a group, talk to the DM first, present the problem and give the ultimatum "If you don't smarten up, we walk (ie: you leave and we play something else)."

Psyx
2010-12-23, 11:53 AM
:smalleek:

You don't kick a DM out of his game!

Sure you can. It means he doesn't run his game any more, and someone else runs something. Easy enough.

Being the GM doesn't give you the right to hold the group to ransom, nor immunity from being kicked because you're a jerk. Being the GM does give you a wodge of responsibility, but not a carte blanche. Indeed: I consider the person hosting the game and allowing half a dozen people to trash his house every week to have far more rights as regards who can play and who can't than the GM.

Oracle_Hunter
2010-12-23, 11:55 AM
Ah, a new twist!

I didn't realize the Problem DM was also a Problem Player :smallredface:

If the dude is killing your PC with his PC then you need to speak that that DM about PvP. If PvP is allowed (and you're cool with that) then you do what is always done in PvP campaigns - make an alliance with other PCs and get him before he gets you :smallsigh:

If the DM is not cool with PvP then he needs to step in to stop the Problem Player from ruining your good time.

EDIT:
@Psyx - it is more than a little ungrateful for a party to "take over" a campaign from a DM. Setting up a game is a lot of work; it's a jerk move to say "hey, thanks for the effort but we'll be giving this to some other dude now." It's better to just tell the DM that his game isn't working out and they'd rather end it - and then start over with a new DM and a new campaign. The only time I can see this as being a valid idea is when the Bad DM is just running a module - and even then, it'd be better to just start over.

Also, it's not like the DM is going to give you his notes after you kick him out of a game.

Sipex
2010-12-23, 11:55 AM
I guess on a TECHNICAL level you don't kick the DM out of his own game because in reality, the game leaves with him.

You can totally kick him out of the group though.

toastyghost
2010-12-23, 11:59 AM
Bash him across the jaw with you Player's Handbook, assuming you possess one.
</sarcasm>

Psyx
2010-12-23, 12:27 PM
@Psyx - it is more than a little ungrateful for a party to "take over" a campaign from a DM. Setting up a game is a lot of work; it's a jerk move to say "hey, thanks for the effort but we'll be giving this to some other dude now." It's better to just tell the DM that his game isn't working out and they'd rather end it - and then start over with a new DM and a new campaign. The only time I can see this as being a valid idea is when the Bad DM is just running a module - and even then, it'd be better to just start over.

Also, it's not like the DM is going to give you his notes after you kick him out of a game.

And that's why "I said he doesn't run his game any more, and someone else runs something."...

Tyndmyr
2010-12-23, 02:57 PM
EDIT:
@Psyx - it is more than a little ungrateful for a party to "take over" a campaign from a DM. Setting up a game is a lot of work; it's a jerk move to say "hey, thanks for the effort but we'll be giving this to some other dude now." It's better to just tell the DM that his game isn't working out and they'd rather end it - and then start over with a new DM and a new campaign. The only time I can see this as being a valid idea is when the Bad DM is just running a module - and even then, it'd be better to just start over.

Also, it's not like the DM is going to give you his notes after you kick him out of a game.

Pfft, I've done it. And you don't need notes to continue a campaign. Sure, it likely won't turn out the same way as it would under the original DM...but if you had to kick him out, that's probably for the best.

If ANYONE in the group ends up causing enough problems, the rest of the group can kick him out. The DM is not exempt from this. Neither is the host, if those people are different. Yes, there are potential changes as a result of both things, but they do happen.

Starting over or not starting over are both reasonable possibilities. Generally, it depends on how much the characters like the original campaign concept and their characters. Sometimes, the campaign is beyond salvaging, but other times, the problem isn't the campaign....it's just the DM.

Susano-wo
2010-12-23, 04:53 PM
I agree with Tyndmyr. The Dm is not the only one with investment. I have an investment in the story and at the very least my character, if not the other player's characters.
Its not like you are telling the DM "thanks for everything, but we'll be playing your campaign with someone else", you're saying, though perhaps in nicer terms"you're an asshat. we're going to have fun without you, since we aren't having fun with you." and then you are not losing the investment you have put into the campaign.



Also, I second Susano-wo. You should expect some support from the others players/DM. If they say "that's just his need to prove himself", you can insist that it may be fine for them, but it's not good enough for you.

Not to mention that even if that's true, its not ok. (though I well know the pains of not wanting to kick disruptive player because OOC he is a friend:smalleek:)

pilvento
2010-12-23, 04:59 PM
Yeah. A DM who DMs to prove his dominance is no DM at all.

yes, like a thug that works as a cop

Lafayel
2010-12-27, 10:45 PM
I feel I should step in here. I was DMing this current game. In the city I had created, the AntiPaladin was essentially backed by the theocracy of the god he was empowered by. He was also prestiged to be the devotee of a blood god, which I ran with as the main plot tie in. As the game is over: the high priestess attempted to gain the Sultan of Brass' power. The PCs were supposed to target one of 5 types of noble genie to play around with wishes.

I honestly regret not curbing the AntiPaladin from the very beginning. However, I did not feel it was my place to "control" or "motivate" the players. Admittedly, I was overwhelmed with the mass combat I had created. The other PCs were too afraid of the AntiPaladin to challenge his behavior.

That player has gotten on my nerves outside of the game, as a dm, and as a pc, it really all does come down to posturing and dominance games (such as using sign language and treating us like idiots when we have repeatedly told him we dont understand it at all). I'm not sure if this particular complaint by FallenWarrior was my poor skills as a DM, but the player being mentioned does have a habit of aggressive building and characters. Sorry if I rambled at all.

The Glyphstone
2010-12-27, 10:48 PM
Zee Plot, She Thickens!:smallbiggrin:

Mando Knight
2010-12-27, 10:56 PM
This is the DM. He's tailoring encounters to kill the OP's characters, or just arbitrarily fiating them to death.I misread this at first. I thought you had misspelled "filleting." :smalltongue:
However, I did not feel it was my place to "control" or "motivate" the players.
Isn't this kinda part of the definition of the DM's job? :smallconfused:

Lafayel
2010-12-27, 11:01 PM
Is it? That depends on the DM and the game

Doomboy911
2010-12-27, 11:12 PM
I've got two overlooked words for you. Role play.
You say he dies alot fine but little does anyone know he comes from a rich family who's mother a powerful sorceress put clone on him to make sure he doesn't permanently end. Or his father the battle hardy general who gave his son an ancient powerful sword (one of his spares) to go off into battle.

The thing about a dungeons and dragons is people remember the play part but they've set themselves in this controlling role the bard always has a guitar and is a wuss. The barbarian is a brainless meat wall see that sort of thing go against it.Give yourself a background. My bard didn't play an instrument or sing he was a writer it was his skill his craft and dream.

So make yourself a human who has a hobby with traps reads about them alot listens to stories about them and enjoys tinkering with them. So when he sets up camp you couldn't get in with gaseous form without getting a spear up your currently non existent butt. Have him be able to kick a trap and disable it with perfection. Ask since he has that kind of training he has a bit of a bonus when it comes to noticing them. Sure it's a little bonus to the character but make your gm think he's amazing that wiping you out will be no issue. If what the people say is correct and he is showing too much dominance make him play along.

The Glyphstone
2010-12-27, 11:14 PM
I've got two overlooked words for you. Role play.
You say he dies alot fine but little does anyone know he comes from a rich family who's mother a powerful sorceress put clone on him to make sure he doesn't permanently end. Or his father the battle hardy general who gave his son an ancient powerful sword (one of his spares) to go off into battle.

The thing about a dungeons and dragons is people remember the play part but they've set themselves in this controlling role the bard always has a guitar and is a wuss. The barbarian is a brainless meat wall see that sort of thing go against it.Give yourself a background. My bard didn't play an instrument or sing he was a writer it was his skill his craft and dream.

So make yourself a human who has a hobby with traps reads about them alot listens to stories about them and enjoys tinkering with them. So when he sets up camp you couldn't get in with gaseous form without getting a spear up your currently non existent butt. Have him be able to kick a trap and disable it with perfection. Ask since he has that kind of training he has a bit of a bonus when it comes to noticing them. Sure it's a little bonus to the character but make your gm think he's amazing that wiping you out will be no issue. If what the people say is correct and he is showing too much dominance make him play along.

At which point the DM decides that his clones spontaneously catch on fire and burn up when he does, or the meteor that inexplicably fell out of the sky and crushed him also destroyed the sword. The traps will be undetectable even if he rolls a 100 and a natural 20, and instant-kill him without a save. That's just how people like this roll, they don't let little things like the rules or roleplay get in the way of their power trips.

Cealocanth
2010-12-27, 11:19 PM
I've got two overlooked words for you. Role play.
You say he dies alot fine but little does anyone know he comes from a rich family who's mother a powerful sorceress put clone on him to make sure he doesn't permanently end. Or his father the battle hardy general who gave his son an ancient powerful sword (one of his spares) to go off into battle.

The thing about a dungeons and dragons is people remember the play part but they've set themselves in this controlling role the bard always has a guitar and is a wuss. The barbarian is a brainless meat wall see that sort of thing go against it.Give yourself a background. My bard didn't play an instrument or sing he was a writer it was his skill his craft and dream.

So make yourself a human who has a hobby with traps reads about them alot listens to stories about them and enjoys tinkering with them. So when he sets up camp you couldn't get in with gaseous form without getting a spear up your currently non existent butt. Have him be able to kick a trap and disable it with perfection. Ask since he has that kind of training he has a bit of a bonus when it comes to noticing them. Sure it's a little bonus to the character but make your gm think he's amazing that wiping you out will be no issue. If what the people say is correct and he is showing too much dominance make him play along.

At this point, this type of RP is probably the best way to go. However, being a DM, if a player decided that he got a super powerful ancient artifact for free as an inheritance, that's where I'd draw the line. Just be aware, to avoid giving your DM even more reasons to kill you, there is a difference between RPing for the fun of it and using RP as an excuse to metagame.

On another note, all we of the playground have is your side of the game, OP. Perhaps your DM is trying to show you something. Think about it, what could you be doing to bring this on yourself. It could really be nothing at all, in that case, find a new DM.

Doomboy911
2010-12-27, 11:56 PM
Or maybe you could just move to a different game the site has online games I could set up one for you to join with me and some other willing people.

I'm a pretty benevolent DM the only point where I play tough is when things are tough. You go running through the villains fortress you may hit a trap.

You know what the last attempt at starting a game up failed I'm going to ask some gents if they're willing to play and send you an invite. If you know how to role you can play.

Doomboy911
2010-12-27, 11:59 PM
At which point the DM decides that his clones spontaneously catch on fire and burn up when he does, or the meteor that inexplicably fell out of the sky and crushed him also destroyed the sword. The traps will be undetectable even if he rolls a 100 and a natural 20, and instant-kill him without a save. That's just how people like this roll, they don't let little things like the rules or roleplay get in the way of their power trips.

Come now this isn't the wish busting forum. I'm sure you can pervert that little lawyer joke I made.

turkishproverb
2010-12-28, 12:03 AM
Or maybe you could just move to a different game the site has online games I could set up one for you to join with me and some other willing people.

I'm a pretty benevolent DM the only point where I play tough is when things are tough. You go running through the villains fortress you may hit a trap.

You know what the last attempt at starting a game up failed I'm going to ask some gents if they're willing to play and send you an invite. If you know how to role you can play.

:smallsmile:

So nice to see a welcoming act in this thread.

Doomboy911
2010-12-28, 12:10 AM
The unexpected is what I do want to join the campaign I'm just forming now. It'll be 3.5 at level 10. I'm going to invite the thread beginner these two guys I know and glyphstone because he's fun.

The Glyphstone
2010-12-28, 12:11 AM
Come now this isn't the wish busting forum. I'm sure you can pervert that little lawyer joke I made.

Perverting wishes is different, that's an art. The sort of jerkery that this person pulls is just fiat.

I however wholeheartedly support switching to online play if you can't find a group. Particularly here, because we're awesome.

..Heck, why not. I'm low on PbP games at the moment. Just no Rings of Three Wishes please.

Doomboy911
2010-12-28, 12:26 AM
Because we'll destroy all of existence with fiery pie.

umbrapolaris
2010-12-28, 12:49 AM
You should go around his house and pee on all of his household furniture. Then go grab him and dry-hump him until he submits.

you are too soft , just sneak into his house and burn all of his D&D books,, notes, files, etc... ! no more stuff, no more DM, then seduce his Girlfriend (if he has one) and make her see that she were with the wrong guy. ( i like make girls cheat their boyfriends, this is true dominance ) mouhahahaha

Lost Demiurge
2010-12-28, 10:46 AM
That player has gotten on my nerves outside of the game, as a dm, and as a pc, it really all does come down to posturing and dominance games (such as using sign language and treating us like idiots when we have repeatedly told him we dont understand it at all). I'm not sure if this particular complaint by FallenWarrior was my poor skills as a DM, but the player being mentioned does have a habit of aggressive building and characters. Sorry if I rambled at all.

Sounds like a bad situation. So, what are you going to do about it?

umbrapolaris
2010-12-28, 11:50 AM
seriously , if this DM persist on killing you and deprive you of your fun, do it too

next time you die , instead of rerolling a character, stay on the table and annoy him innocently, talking about many topics, distracting the other players, when he describe the background make some stupid jokes, for short make his job impossible... he will surely ask you to stop and THEN, fires this superb sentence : " my character is dead, im bored, nothing to do now, not my fault"

Mando Knight
2010-12-28, 12:39 PM
Is it? That depends on the DM and the game

The DM is the closest thing the table has to a referee, so yes, it is his job to curb problematic players. Don't be afraid to call pass interference, automatic 1st down.

The most delicious bit of being a DM is the player motivation. Want them to stick together? Weave all of their various motivations together into a single plot. Want to curb a problematic player without overt DM-action? Slip in hints everywhere to help the others counter his plan.

Lord Vampyre
2010-12-28, 05:32 PM
I rerolled an alchemist after the cavalier and was killed in three minutes this time. Wooo.

Considering taking Jornophelanthas' suggestion and DMing myself, but i fear he'll just powerbuild to break the game instead of my character. Really don't want to leave the game. I've known him for 12 years or more.

Also, I did try confronting him in today's game. He denied it completely.

I would suggest that you quit rolling new characters. If he is killing your characters as quickly as you suggest, you should consider simply changing the characters name and reintroducing him to the campaign.

The game may begin to feel rather cheesy, but if you consider the graveyard of characters your creating it should already feel cheesy from having to recreate so many characters.

Eventually he might get the hint.

DwarfFighter
2010-12-28, 06:02 PM
A query: How old are you all?

The reason I ask is that I wouldn't expect a 12-year-old hopped up on Dew and Dragon Ball Z to respond to reason in any way, but I'd be surprised if a 32-year-old didn't...

Also:


Also, I did try confronting him in today's game. He denied it completely.

I'd advise confronting the GM out-of-game, preferably a couple of days before the next session. Cooler heads and all that.

-DF

The Glyphstone
2010-12-28, 08:12 PM
A query: How old are you all?

The reason I ask is that I wouldn't expect a 12-year-old hopped up on Dew and Dragon Ball Z to respond to reason in any way, but I'd be surprised if a 32-year-old didn't...

Also:



I'd advise confronting the GM out-of-game, preferably a couple of days before the next session. Cooler heads and all that.

-DF

Don't rule surprise out - I've met more rational 12-year olds than I have 32-year olds; age can make you more open to reason, but it can also crystallize your thinking into 'I'm older, so I know better'.

Jornophelanthas
2010-12-29, 09:08 AM
I was DMing this current game.

I honestly regret not curbing the AntiPaladin from the very beginning. However, I did not feel it was my place to "control" or "motivate" the players. Admittedly, I was overwhelmed with the mass combat I had created. The other PCs were too afraid of the AntiPaladin to challenge his behavior.

That player has gotten on my nerves outside of the game, as a dm, and as a pc, it really all does come down to posturing and dominance games (such as using sign language and treating us like idiots when we have repeatedly told him we dont understand it at all). I'm not sure if this particular complaint by FallenWarrior was my poor skills as a DM, but the player being mentioned does have a habit of aggressive building and characters. Sorry if I rambled at all.

It sounds like you have a problem player on your hands. As DM, it is your job to entertain the players with a good story/combat/politics/whatever, but also to make sure that someone's fun is not being spoiled. Therefore, if one player spoils the fun of another player (especially if this other player tells you this explicitly), you should address the issue with the fun-spoiling player.

If you have the idea that all players are afraid of this one player, that is another problem all by itself. Deal with this one player one way or another, because it sounds like he is the only one having fun at all. I cannot imagine that everyone else is okay with that, least of all yourself. Are you, DM and all other players, willing to sacrifice a game session just so this one person can have a good time?

So what are your options?
- Reign in the Anti-Paladin using story elements. Perhaps he will be punished by his god for performing acts counter to his alignment or the god's agenda. Perhaps you should give him a personal quest that requires him to work together with the other players. It is the DM's job to prevent the players from killing each other, unless that is what you all want to do in the first place.

- Talk to the player and ask him to tone it down. Tell him his behaviour is inappropriate and ruins the enjoyment of other people at the table. If he wants to know who has been complaining about him, the best thing to say is that it irritates you how he treates the other players, and ruins your fun as DM. (Don't mention FallenWarriorIV or any other similar players without their consent!)
Also, ask him in what ways he can enjoy himself without engaging in unwanted behaviour and try to accommodate him.
If he promises to mend his ways, give him some time to adjust and inform the players who have taken issue with him. Give him a few gentle (and subtle) reminders if he's slipping back into his old ways.

- If the talk doesn't work, or if he doesn't change his ways, ask him to leave your group. If he asks for a reason, you can say that his playstyle does not mix well with the playstyles of everyone else.

- Alternately, you could end the campaign and have someone else be DM, but only do this if you don't think you can continue even if he leaves.

Jornophelanthas
2010-12-29, 09:10 AM
As the game is over:

Sorry, just noticed this just now. You mentioned that the campaign ended. Could you let us know if the issue been resolved?

Lord Vampyre
2010-12-29, 11:59 AM
That player has gotten on my nerves outside of the game, as a dm, and as a pc, it really all does come down to posturing and dominance games (such as using sign language and treating us like idiots when we have repeatedly told him we dont understand it at all). I'm not sure if this particular complaint by FallenWarrior was my poor skills as a DM, but the player being mentioned does have a habit of aggressive building and characters.

Unfortunately, it is often the DM's responsibility to curb a problem player. I wouldn't worry too much about your skills as a DM, since problem players have been known to give the best of DMs a headache. Honestly, most DMs would probably simply remove the player from the game after a few warnings, but that isn't always an option.

The problem with allowing people to play evil alignments is that they normally see it as an open invitation for PvP. The only solution is to set house rules that forbid direct PvP action. Plotting against the group is much different than outright killing each other.

Your best option is for you and FallenWarrior to stick together when dealing with this problem player/DM. I'm saying he'll listen, but if you both confirm what the other person sees is going on, it lends credibility to your arguments.

You also need to work on getting the rest of the group to stick together. In the campaign with the Anti-Paladin, if the rest of the party would have been willing to attack him if one player fell, he would have seen that there were consequences to his actions.

daxos232
2010-12-29, 10:53 PM
This person causing the starter of this thread problems, is a waste of time. This man is no longer your friend from what I've read these past three pages. Start another game with your real friends and leave out this backstabber.

FallenWarriorIV
2010-12-30, 06:14 PM
you are too soft , just sneak into his house and burn all of his D&D books,, notes, files, etc... ! no more stuff, no more DM, then seduce his Girlfriend (if he has one) and make her see that she were with the wrong guy. ( i like make girls cheat their boyfriends, this is true dominance ) mouhahahaha

Perfect idea, not counting he's gay. =p Do want to burn his books tho. . .

Other than that, the game ended, alchemist died, think I mentioned that. Now, we're in a game with a GM other than Lafayel. It was a one shot, and I'm still alive. =D

He's going back to college in a few days and Lafayel and I will be starting a group with other players. I'm also going to attempt to join a PbP game. So we'll see what happens.

Thank you all for your wonderful advice. It really did help.