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Saint GoH
2010-12-23, 02:53 AM
When you are starting a new campaign, and of the 6 players (including yourself) in the game, 5 choose melee oriented barbarians, fighters, rangers, rogues and monks?

We are going to need a divine and arcane caster, or we are probably going to die.

However I can't tell people to play one, because they will reply they are playing what they want, and I should too. Problem being? I want to play a melee'r :smallfrown:

So when yer party is heavily melee/physical focused, what build do YOU play?

(Ur Priest is already out :smallannoyed:)

Kylarra
2010-12-23, 03:07 AM
I play a DFA, but then I always choose to play a DFA when I can. In this particular case, you should probably just talk with the group and see what kind of game you guys want to play. If it's a sandbox style game, then yeah you may want to shift over to cover missing bases or see if anyone else is interested in doing so, rarely are people 100% set in their first choice, though it happens.

Alternatively, if your DM is flexible, I'd just make sure that at least one of you has healing wands to patch up between fights and potentially the UMD to acquire the necessary debuffs.

Kuma Kode
2010-12-23, 03:11 AM
Is the campaign setting set in stone already, or is that flexible? It seems the group is more interested in melee combat than sitting back and swishing spells, and that's fine. You could play a mercenary/military unit campaign like Fire Emblem with low magic or magic handled by items or NPC cohorts acquired either through DM plot or the Leadership feat.

It's probably easier to adjust the setting and plot than rearrange the characters to fill in arbitrary roles with which they will obviously not be happy.

A warlock with UMD can cover both roles and will be roughly the same power level, tier-wise, as some of the others (excluding the fighter [unless he's a heavy optimizer] and monk).

Saint GoH
2010-12-23, 03:16 AM
Well, the PC's in general like smashing things, so thats prolly where the campaign direction is heading (the DM likes to break things with his face too), what I'm more concerned about is teh logistics of it all.

If you have 6 PC's that are all melee oriented, fighting opponents is gonna be a cluster-cuss, especially in tight passages of dungeons or any indoors really.


PC Baddie PC
PC PC PC

That'd just be silly especially in a 10ft corridor

Zonugal
2010-12-23, 03:18 AM
A crusader could present some nice healing abilities but if you are hoping to present utility while also being a melee character than a Sword of the Arcane Order Mystic Ranger is probably the best you will do.

Saint GoH
2010-12-23, 03:21 AM
A crusader could present some nice healing abilities but if you are hoping to present utility while also being a melee character than a Sword of the Arcane Order Mystic Ranger is probably the best you will do.

Actually hoping to avoid being in melee (or even physical) at all. 5/6 PC's are already gonna be jostling around melee Id rather not add to the mayhem.

Zonugal
2010-12-23, 03:24 AM
Have you considered a support role within the party? A bard, dragon shaman or marshal could add a lot to a party like this.

Kylarra
2010-12-23, 03:24 AM
Maybe a DFI bard to act as party face and boost your beatmonkeys?

Enguhl
2010-12-23, 03:25 AM
War Weaver, war weaver all the way. That class would make this party magnificent.

LordBlades
2010-12-23, 03:34 AM
Druid.

You can melee when you feel like it (probably a lot better than their dedicated melee), you can buff if you want, you can do BFC/summons when needed, and you can heal decently (you have acess to lesser vigor, only proble with druid healing is inability to remove ability drain and negative levels).

Rixx
2010-12-23, 03:36 AM
Bard.

Melee bard.

Gang up on people, all the while playing your own theme tune!

Saint GoH
2010-12-23, 03:38 AM
Druid.

You can melee when you feel like it (probably a lot better than their dedicated melee), you can buff if you want, you can do BFC/summons when needed, and you can heal decently (you have acess to lesser vigor, only proble with druid healing is inability to remove ability drain and negative levels).

I had debated this... but then again it all comes down to being in melee again. Rawr.

I had also considered a bard, but my best bard is a Snowflake Wardancer (again &*^%*&% melee) thoug I suppose a dragonfire inspiration bard would be helpful, though I am fairly unfamiliar with them. Cleric is out because it just boils down to meleeing as well.

Part of me knows I can make a better physical damage dealer then the others, but part of me screams to balance out the party. Dragonfire Inspiration maaay be the best way to go, although I am looking for this so called War Weaver now....

Zonugal
2010-12-23, 03:41 AM
If you find your self finding such an aversion to melee perhaps the Healer class into Combat Medic would offer up a chance to assist the party while not swinging a sword, in addition to providing you with both an optimization challenge and the chance to not over-shadow any of the others (if there is such a difference in optimization skill).

LordBlades
2010-12-23, 03:45 AM
If you find your self finding such an aversion to melee perhaps the Healer class into Combat Medic would offer up a chance to assist the party while not swinging a sword, in addition to providing you with both an optimization challenge and the chance to not over-shadow any of the others (if there is such a difference in optimization skill).

Wizard(with arcane disciple: healing)/combat medic makes a better healer than a healer tbh. Healer doesn't even have acess to Lesser Vigor IIRC, which, in wand form is probably one the most awesome ways of out of combat healing known to man.

Saint GoH
2010-12-23, 03:56 AM
Suddenly, War Weaver would make me become the Ultimate Buff Bot. Is it worth it? Abusing Using Early entry tricks of course...

Runestar
2010-12-23, 05:24 AM
If you have savage species, consider playing a ghaele monster PC class? The class is fairly front-loaded, so up to lv14, it is pretty strong, so you can afford to melee early on and still heal/buff the party with clerical spells.

As it can be fairly fragile, use a reach weapon and spend your early feats on improved trip/disarm.

Alternatively, let the rogue handle out-of-combat healing with UMD+wands of CLW/vigor, and play a wizard for the battlefield control. You will be the only thing protecting them from becoming giant blood-coloured stains on the floor. :smallfrown:

Escheton
2010-12-23, 05:52 AM
I believe small characters can ocupy the same space with less trouble, and there are feats designed around this even. I recon races of the wild.
It's will be less crowded in that 10ft corridor if you lot are all small sized critters.

Duke of URL
2010-12-23, 06:49 AM
What level are you starting at? Because in this situation, the much-maligned Mystic Theurge might be the simplest and most straightforward option. Since you'll be in a party of Tier 3 to Tier 5 characters, taking the MT's power hit is probably a good thing.

To avoid MAD issues, go Wizard/Archivist for a prepared caster or Sorcerer/Favored Soul for the spontaneous model.

Vizzerdrix
2010-12-23, 07:01 AM
Either a Druid/Sorc/Mystic Theurge/ Arcane Heirophant. Using early entry, or an optimized Artificer. Healing belts and life drinker weapons for all!

grarrrg
2010-12-23, 07:07 AM
Mystic Theurge

Darn, beat me to it.

It partially depends on how high a level you will reach. If you're going above 8 or so then I would definately consider it.
And early entry tricks or not, *cough*Precocious Apprentice*cough* you will be a god among insects.

Kiero
2010-12-23, 07:09 AM
Like the other players, you choose whatever you actually want to play, and the GM works it out.

There's a pretty clear message of what they want to be doing here, it's the GM's job to accomodate that.

olentu
2010-12-23, 07:10 AM
Well to answer the question I play whatever I feel like if I think the DM can scale the challenges for the party. Generally I keep it either on the level of the others or tone it down since I generally do not like to overshadow others. Of course this depends on the DM and how well they can scale challenges to a primarily fighting man party.

That being said for some reason I would play a divinely powered archer in this situation but that is probably just because I sort of want to play a divine archer at the moment. Perhaps archavist for the breadth of spell choice if the DM is ok with letting me get hard to find spells.

Runestar
2010-12-23, 07:24 AM
What level are you starting at? Because in this situation, the much-maligned Mystic Theurge might be the simplest and most straightforward option. Since you'll be in a party of Tier 3 to Tier 5 characters, taking the MT's power hit is probably a good thing.

I would argue that it is exactly because the party is rife with tier3-5 characters that the OP should play a tier 1 character like a wizard. Battlefield control will be paramount here. Just imagine him disabling the foes with stinking cloud or black tentacles, with the rest of the party mopping up.

And best of all? If the players don't know what a god wizard does, they will think they are the ones rocking and doing all the damage, and that the wizard is the weakest of them all. :smallwink:

Psyx
2010-12-23, 08:47 AM
Suddenly, War Weaver would make me become the Ultimate Buff Bot. Is it worth it? Abusing Using Early entry tricks of course...

Hmm... in a class where everyone is playing melee characters, is playing a Tier 1 character and then horribly abusing the rules to make yourself even more uber really very fair on the others?

I just don't think it's the most diplomatic of things to do.

Yuki Akuma
2010-12-23, 08:53 AM
Try to convince the Monk to play an Enlightened/Sacred Fist?

Alternatively: play an Artificer.

darbythegambler
2010-12-23, 10:19 AM
Convince everyone in your group to play a gish build of whatever class they chose. Psionic Monks can be fun in non heavy optimized campaigns, Arcane Rogues can do many neat tricks, Fighters are generally good for gishes of all kinds, Barbarians are a little hard to work with, but Rage Mage would be good for a couple levels to make that work, Rangers are a little tough to work with, but if Forgotten Realms is allowed, Sword of the Arcane Order helps a great deal, as for yourself, go nuts :smalltongue:

Sipex
2010-12-23, 10:21 AM
It can easily work. You'll have to adjust your tactics (ie: in your 10ft hallway, lure the enemies to a more open area) and as long as your DM adjusts loot to your needs (potions or what have you) you'll be fine.

Saint GoH
2010-12-23, 03:56 PM
Woah... note to self, don't fall asleep shortly after posting.

I'm leaning towards either a wizard or a psionic user. I've always liked Ardents and Psions can be fun. My last session as a wizard ended up with me riding a red dragon's teeth into a pit of lava so it was a... less then pleasant experience.

Early entry into War Weaver then following a little bit of Mailman (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19868534/The_Mailman:_A_Direct_Damage_Sorcerer)advice would make me a semi decent blaster/buffer. Although I may stick with battlefield controller.

We will be starting at level 6, potentially going to beyond 12 btw.

Dr.Epic
2010-12-23, 03:58 PM
NPC caster or let them die and teach them the lesson that you need diversity.

Emmerask
2010-12-23, 04:09 PM
NPC caster or let them die and teach them the lesson that you need diversity.

Or instead of passive aggressively teaching them how to play the game you could try to fit in the party and make it work.

I think a bard would fit this group quite well, get a wand for healing and focus on battlefield control well and your melee stuff, bards are quite nice and buff them with your songs.

O_Y
2010-12-23, 04:30 PM
Bard, Artificer, War Weaver, 'Batman' Wizard -- any powerful mass-support class.

Don't worry about power disparities -- the best options for powerful classes is almost always a backup role (eg. blinding, separating, debuffing the bad guys or buffing party members rather than killing them yourself).

Kurald Galain
2010-12-23, 04:34 PM
However I can't tell people to play one, because they will reply they are playing what they want, and I should too. Problem being? I want to play a melee'r
So play a melee cleric, and forget about wizards.



So when yer party is heavily melee/physical focused, what build do YOU play?
I'd play a bard.

Dimers
2010-12-23, 10:58 PM
Personally, OP, I'd take one of the other physical classes, because I'd be so enchanted with the idea of playing in a non-magic-oriented party. I prefer my gameworlds with low or rare magic when I can get that. Maybe swashbuckler ... But I don't think my preference makes for good advice. :smalltongue:

Ardent, warlock, battle sorcerer, and psychic warrior can all be great for joining the "bash stuff with sticks" party theme while retaining abilities that are useful in other ways.

If you do play some sort of caster, be alert to whether your fellow players resent or appreciate that difference.

Saint GoH
2010-12-23, 11:39 PM
Ok... after much thought I decided to go with Psion/Wizard/Cerebremancer.

Gonna go the Metamorphosis route with the Psion so I'm like a druid, while the Wizard will provide a few buffs for the party. Also thinking War Weaver eventually, because the we have a homebrewed rule that allows us to use dual progression classes as the "+1 existing Arcane casting class". So I'll be shifting into hags, throwing out haste buffs and Black Tentacling everything, all with Inertial armor :smallbiggrin: