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View Full Version : 'Heroes' Season One Finale in 3.5



ffone
2010-12-24, 02:48 AM
(spoilers about the show)

Just watched the first season of Heroes. The main plot, in a nutshell, is that for most of the season, several characters have had foreknowledge (via time travel or precognition) of a nuclear explosion in Manhattan. There's suspense over whether that explosion is/was/will-be caused by one of 3 characters:

1. a guy whose superpower is fire/nuclear abilities
2. a good guy who can borrow the superpowers of others, like Rogue from X-Men (and eventually learns to do so even when they're no longer nearby)
3. a villain who gains the superpowers of those he kills

It turns out that guy 3 kills 1, and plans to cause the explosion. The good guys kill him but then guy 2 (who's 'absorbed' from 1 before 1 died) can't stop himself from an imminent explosion. His brother (who can fly) whisks him into the sky to harmlessly (to everyone else!) detonate high above the city. The end.

Left me wishing for an avert-a-big-explosion campaign hook (not necessarily this exact scenario - this is 'regular' medieval-fantasy 3.5, not a superhero thing - but the idea of it being caused involuntarily by a nonevil NPC is interesting). Are there good magical effects like this (uber death throes or maybe an epic spell) - which could be included in a campaign but in a way the PCs can't 'weaponize' and use themselves (except maybe as a 1-time thing) to rule the campaign world.

Saintheart
2010-12-24, 02:58 AM
Only thing that springs to mind is the failure of a mythal in the Forgotten Realms, although they don't tend to blow up as such...sorry, no help. :smallfrown:

Serpentine
2010-12-24, 03:44 AM
The only campaign I ever finished as a player had a plot something like this. There's a particular crystal which, when broken or destroyed, activates a Time Stop type ability for a short amount of time. A fallen angel was gathering up tonnes and tonnes of this stuff in one place over a volcano, intending to break them all at once and thereby stop time all over the world - or at least that part of it - forever, or at least for a very long time.
We beat him, and stopped the massive time freeze.
But... there was an incident... with the Rod of Wonder and a Delayed Blast Fireball...
It didn't blow up enough to fulfil the angel's plan, but the immediate viscinity of the volcano is frozen in time for the next few months >.<

Zonugal
2010-12-24, 03:46 AM
This sounds like a character going nova be it with magic or psionics, but that is a possible avenue if you merely bring in some power/spell/substance which forces a caster/manifester to go nova.

golem1972
2010-12-24, 05:27 AM
Locate City Bomb.


The group has x amount of time to stop it. maybe.

Mikeavelli
2010-12-24, 05:40 AM
DM Fiat is a beautiful thing.

There's a rare astronomical event, the moons\planets\stars are aligned, allowing big magic that isn't otherwise possible to take place. This big magic involves things blowing up, and there are some people who want to stop things from blowing up, and there are other people that want to cause things to blow up, and there's one poor guy who's stuck in the middle and he's going to blow up if the players don't stop it from happening.

awa
2010-12-24, 04:31 PM
final strike from savage species but the damage is not super impressive d6 per hd plus a secondary effect which could deal as much as d6 per 2 hd so it would only deal 30 d6 with a 20 hit die creature which i think is the cap

edit although actually creatures with an earth subtype cause a mini earthquake instead of the bonus damage which could cause instant death.

ffone
2010-12-26, 06:13 PM
Thanks everyone.

The spell *damage* doesn't need to be that high (most commoners have single-digit HP and live in very flammable wooden houses) just the area. Locate City Bomb (quoted from another GitP thread below) looks like one way to go. Since it requires a lot of feats, it's not that prone to PC abuse in reaction to them learning how an NPC did it (i.e. they'd have to build a whole new character, and good-aligned PCs don't generally have incentive to blow up whole cities; even places like Zhentil Keep have a bunch of innocent shopkeepers and whatnot).

Or, yeah, DM fiat totally works. It's fun to construct things using the rules when possible (when as a DM you get a reputation or following the rules, I find players are more engaged, b/c they don't think you're going to just 'make' things happen the way you wanted them to, even if they figure out a shortcut to saving the day).

Locate City Bomb need not be centered on the caster, it seems (and it's voluntary)...maybe the guy who knows the required spells and feats is a nonevil NPC who in his research discovered that he *could* do this, and unwisely told a less scrupulous colleague who now wants to blackmail/enchant him into using it.

"1: Take Locate City, a spell with a range of ten miles per level
2: Apply Snowcasting (Frostburn) to it, making it a [Cold] spell
3: Apply Flash Frost (PHBII) to it, making it deal 2 cold damage to everything in the area
4:Apply Energy Substitution (CArc) to it, making it an electric spell
5: Apply Born of the Three Thunders to it, allowing a reflex save to avoid the damage and changing the damage type
6: Apply Explosive Spell to it, forcing a second Reflex save to avoid being blasted to the edge of the area and 1d6(?) per ten feet traveled."

awa
2010-12-26, 09:44 PM
i don't think that particular locate city bomb works by raw because they just go up 5 feet because locate city is a circle not a sphere

ffone
2010-12-27, 02:29 AM
i don't think that particular locate city bomb works by raw because they just go up 5 feet because locate city is a circle not a sphere

Great observation. I fell into the all too common 2D thinking trap.

(Although one wonders....how the spell works on very 3D cities such as those underground.)

Heliomance
2010-12-27, 04:53 AM
That rebuttal is common, but its legality is debatable. If the DM wants it to work, it works.

Lord Loss
2010-12-27, 07:45 AM
Apocalypse from the Sky (From Elder Evils or BoVD) seems the way to go.1 Day casting time, 10d6 damage to all within 10-mile radius, including objects and caster. Seems good to me.

awa
2010-12-27, 11:21 AM
well i always pictured a "city" as including the area directly above and below it so that makes it a significantly bigger target but i would also say it probably does not locate cities deep underground

ffone
2010-12-29, 09:38 PM
Apocalypse from the Sky (From Elder Evils or BoVD) seems the way to go.1 Day casting time, 10d6 damage to all within 10-mile radius, including objects and caster. Seems good to me.

That seems pretty much perfect for a Nuclear Bomb type spell. Hmm, is there a way to get Explosive Spell as spontaneous-type metamagic (I'm guessing AftS is 9th level and don't want to use epic villains)?

Explosive Spell is +2 spell level, so I guess I could always allow myself a homebrew feat that's otherwise equivalent to Sudden Empower. Or a metamagic rod.

The exact effects of the spell aren't that important (10d6 with a high DC would kill the vast majority of NPCs in a game world; and if the spell succeeds it probably means the campaign is Game Over anyway - the PCs might survive but it's such epic fail that the players won't bedemotivated to continue!) but it's a fun idea.

(And early in the campaign there may be a use of this spell in an unpopulated area - the bad guys doing a 'test' as it were - to motivate the devastation-witnessing PCs .)

awa
2010-12-29, 09:49 PM
i think Apocalypse from the sky has an artifact as a material component but im away from my books so im not positive

Jack_Simth
2010-12-29, 10:06 PM
Locate City Bomb need not be centered on the caster, it seems (and it's voluntary)...maybe the guy who knows the required spells and feats is a nonevil NPC who in his research discovered that he *could* do this, and unwisely told a less scrupulous colleague who now wants to blackmail/enchant him into using it.

"1: Take Locate City, a spell with a range of ten miles per level
2: Apply Snowcasting (Frostburn) to it, making it a [Cold] spell
3: Apply Flash Frost (PHBII) to it, making it deal 2 cold damage to everything in the area
4:Apply Energy Substitution (CArc) to it, making it an electric spell
5: Apply Born of the Three Thunders to it, allowing a reflex save to avoid the damage and changing the damage type
6: Apply Explosive Spell to it, forcing a second Reflex save to avoid being blasted to the edge of the area and 1d6(?) per ten feet traveled."
Replace 4, 5, and 6 with the Fell Drain metamagic feat (Libris Mortis). Apply one negative level to everyone in the area. All those 1st level characters drop dead. The next night, they turn into Wights.

If you follow the DMG town generation tables, something like 90% of people in D&D are 1st level.

Oh yes, and if you throw Fell Animate into the mix as well, some of those killed rise immediately as zombies under the caster's control.

Chilingsworth
2010-12-30, 08:01 AM
That seems pretty much perfect for a Nuclear Bomb type spell. Hmm, is there a way to get Explosive Spell as spontaneous-type metamagic (I'm guessing AftS is 9th level and don't want to use epic villains)?

Explosive Spell is +2 spell level, so I guess I could always allow myself a homebrew feat that's otherwise equivalent to Sudden Empower. Or a metamagic rod.

The exact effects of the spell aren't that important (10d6 with a high DC would kill the vast majority of NPCs in a game world; and if the spell succeeds it probably means the campaign is Game Over anyway - the PCs might survive but it's such epic fail that the players won't bedemotivated to continue!) but it's a fun idea.

(And early in the campaign there may be a use of this spell in an unpopulated area - the bad guys doing a 'test' as it were - to motivate the devastation-witnessing PCs .)

You could always use Divine Metamagic: for the low, low price of two turn/rebuke attempts, you too can apply explosive spell to AFTS!
Also, the spell does indeed have an artifact material component, a Good artifact, to be precise. Also, it deals wisdom damage to the caster just for having it in his/her mind. (It's a corrupt spell from BOVD)

king.com
2010-12-30, 08:39 AM
I got one for you. In Dark Heresy's Ascension (basic epic characters for the Dark Heresy game), a psyker can pick up a power which causes an constantly expanding zone of fire. Every round he has to take a check to see whether he can maintain it or not. If at any time he fails, he falls unconscious and the fire expands INDEFINITELY. Meaning the fire can effectively consume an entire hive or even an entire planet. Stopping an enemy psyker before he activates it thats fairly similiar (considering PCs can pick it up too).

Its not exactly 3.5 but similiar spells apply.

ffone
2010-12-30, 03:02 PM
You could always use Divine Metamagic: for the low, low price of two turn/rebuke attempts, you too can apply explosive spell to AFTS!
Also, the spell does indeed have an artifact material component, a Good artifact, to be precise. Also, it deals wisdom damage to the caster just for having it in his/her mind. (It's a corrupt spell from BOVD)

Divine Metamagic would be the way to go for sure (I had figured the spell was arcane since it was like a super-Fireball, but I see it's a 'Corrupt Spell' so any prepared caster can use it.). This is a great example of the uberness of DMM (since it's totally decoupled from the base level of the spell).

One side effect of Explosive is then it's basically guaranteed to slay the caster if he fails his Reflex...although there's probably some loophole way to teleport out immediately (Contingency, although clerics don't have that...)

The extreme ability damage/drain it deals to the caster (3d6 damage Con, 4d6 drain Wis, also 1d3 Wis damage when preparing and every day it stays prepared) 'helps' with my inclination towards an "unwilling caster" plot (although the caster might still have to be Evil, I guess, or at least Dominated....or perhaps using it from a scroll under duress). Probably they'd be two bad guys from the same organization; one reluctant / under duress and one a total megalomaniac.

The consumed artifact is a fun angle too: it's a possible hook for how the PCs first find out about the plot (questgiver tells them about the stolen Good artifact, not necessarily knowing why it was stolen) , as well as a loot reward if the PCs prevent the Skypocalypse.

ffone
2010-12-30, 03:04 PM
I got one for you. In Dark Heresy's Ascension (basic epic characters for the Dark Heresy game), a psyker can pick up a power which causes an constantly expanding zone of fire. Every round he has to take a check to see whether he can maintain it or not. If at any time he fails, he falls unconscious and the fire expands INDEFINITELY. Meaning the fire can effectively consume an entire hive or even an entire planet. Stopping an enemy psyker before he activates it thats fairly similiar (considering PCs can pick it up too).

Its not exactly 3.5 but similiar spells apply.

Interesting. The "trying to control it as it expands" is very much in the vein of the guy from Heroes. I haven't heard of that system...is there by any luck a link to that power you have handy?

Chilingsworth
2010-12-30, 04:14 PM
Divine Metamagic would be the way to go for sure (I had figured the spell was arcane since it was like a super-Fireball, but I see it's a 'Corrupt Spell' so any prepared caster can use it.). This is a great example of the uberness of DMM (since it's totally decoupled from the base level of the spell).

One side effect of Explosive is then it's basically guaranteed to slay the caster if he fails his Reflex...although there's probably some loophole way to teleport out immediately (Contingency, although clerics don't have that...)

The extreme ability damage/drain it deals to the caster (3d6 damage Con, 4d6 drain Wis, also 1d3 Wis damage when preparing and every day it stays prepared) 'helps' with my inclination towards an "unwilling caster" plot (although the caster might still have to be Evil, I guess, or at least Dominated....or perhaps using it from a scroll under duress). Probably they'd be two bad guys from the same organization; one reluctant / under duress and one a total megalomaniac.

The consumed artifact is a fun angle too: it's a possible hook for how the PCs first find out about the plot (questgiver tells them about the stolen Good artifact, not necessarily knowing why it was stolen) , as well as a loot reward if the PCs prevent the Skypocalypse.

You could get a contingency spell either through being a Mystic Theurge, or somehow getting access to the "Spell" domain from Forgotten Realms. The domain includes "Any Spell" and "Greater Any Spell," these spells allow the cleric to prepare and cast wizard spells. The domain and its spells are also described in the Spell Compendium.

ffone
2010-12-30, 06:08 PM
You could get a contingency spell either through being a Mystic Theurge, or somehow getting access to the "Spell" domain from Forgotten Realms. The domain includes "Any Spell" and "Greater Any Spell," these spells allow the cleric to prepare and cast wizard spells. The domain and its spells are also described in the Spell Compendium.

Thanks. I'll look that up. I'll probably go the Spell Domain that route rather than Mystic Theurge (since AtfS is 9th level and I don't want to create an epic level enemy if possible...esp. annoying since MT ends after 10 levels). Or find a way to get UMD as a class skill for the cleric. Or create a custom item that casts it once/day for the usual cost (360 x spell level x caster level = 360 x 66 in this case). With Travel domain for the teleport, I guess.

Or maybe the caster can surround himself with a Forcecage (Barred Cage) so he only explosive-spell-moves a few feet. Which someone else cast.

Or pump the Reflex save and hope to make it. Maybe with a 'good fortunte' reroll-failure feat (like the 'luck feats' from Complete Scoundrel) or item (Luckblade).

Ex:
'Reluctant' guy (cleric-17 with DMM Explosive) prepares AftS.
'Manipulator' guy (wizard) casts Forecage (barred cage) around them.
Either guy casts Protection from Energy on them both, and Bear's Endurance / Owl's Wisdom on Reluctant so he's more likely to be alive and conscious after the 'backlash' from AftS (or at this level, an NPC can afford the +6 items, and they're both good for a cleric anyway).
'Reluctant' guy casts AftS. Energy dmg is negated, and if they fail reflex, they only get thrown about 10' for 1d6. He probably is still conscious and alive after the ability damage, although his Wis might be too low to cast Restoration on himself (so use wand, or teleport back to Bad Guy Central and get some lower level cleric to do it).

Interestingly, an NPC with the expected ability score array ('elite array' of 15 14 13 12 10 8, used for all NPCs with PC class levels) will probably start with Con 14 Wis 15. At level 16 he should have Con 14 Wis 19; with the items that's Con 20 Wis 25. Since the spell deals 3d6 Con 4d6 Wis, that's just enough to guarantee he survives and remains conscious.

TheEmerged
2010-12-30, 07:55 PM
Tangent: I often use Heroes as an example of how plot-breaking powers can make life hard on a DM.

ffone
2010-12-31, 05:46 AM
Tangent: I often use Heroes as an example of how plot-breaking powers can make life hard on a DM.

LOL! When I watch the show I frequently think that way - think of myself as a DM/scriptwriter and note how often the plot shifts direction and characters change alliances.