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View Full Version : Are the water in the elementanel plane of water saltwater or sweetwater?



akma
2010-12-24, 01:18 PM
Question in title.

woodenbandman
2010-12-24, 01:21 PM
Probably just water, seeing as how it's a plane of only water forever. Nothing else, just water. and water elementals.

Coidzor
2010-12-24, 01:35 PM
I believe it varies by section. Some of the water is like estuary water, some of it is salty, some of it is just pure water without even trace minerals in it.

Claudius Maximus
2010-12-24, 02:12 PM
Salt and other impurities would flow in from interplanar portals like those linking to the plane of earth. Others would be added by the biological life in the plane (of which there is a decent amount apparently).

I've always assumed that some places are salty or brakish, some might even be anaerobic, and the different kinds of water flow into each other all the time with currents and whatnot. It's a similar story with temperatures, with great currents flowing through the plane, originating from portals to the elemental plane of fire.

I'm no expert on hydrodynamics (is that even a thing?) so this might make no sense for all I know.

Scoot
2010-12-24, 02:16 PM
From the DMG/SRD


The eternal oceans of this plan vary between ice cold and boiling hot, between saline and fresh. They are perpetualy in motion, wracked by currents and tides. The plane's permanent settlements form around bits of flotsam and jetsam suspended within this endless liquid.

Zergrusheddie
2010-12-24, 02:16 PM
Ehhh, this is like asking "what's the temperature in the Celestial Planes?" I don't think you are going to find a straight answer where a WotC sources states the contents of the Plane of Water (aside from water, of course). I think it is entirely up to the DM.

"Stuff works like that because it is necessary for the campaign."

You nasty dirty ninja...

Gamer Girl
2010-12-24, 02:18 PM
The Water that makes up the Elemental Plane of Water is pure, fundamental, elemental water. Basically, it's the purest, most perfect water in existence. It's a true universal water, all water types can breathe it and live in it. Anyone who drinks water can drink it.

Naturally, parts of the plane will be 'contaminated' with other types of water.

Bayar
2010-12-24, 02:53 PM
The Water that makes up the Elemental Plane of Water is pure, fundamental, elemental water. Basically, it's the purest, most perfect water in existence. It's a true universal water, all water types can breathe it and live in it. Anyone who drinks water can drink it.

Naturally, parts of the plane will be 'contaminated' with other types of water.

Hope it's not distilled water. Because that is bad to drink.

Techsmart
2010-12-24, 03:09 PM
well assuming that lots of things live on the elemental planes including humans (see city of brass on the elemental plane of fire.) I would assume that there would at least be contamination by things living in the water (if a fish dies in the elemental plane of water its body doesn't just disappear. Because of that (and the fact that there are commonly portals connecting it to other planes with other impurities) I would assume that the elemental plane of water consists of many different areas with different impurities temperatures and even air bubbles where non-aquatic creatures may dwell before moving to more hospitable planes. See the planar guide for a more information. (sorry for some areas being grammatically incorrect some keys working weird).

JonestheSpy
2010-12-24, 03:11 PM
Here's a bit of a spanner to throw into the works: The four classical elements parallel the four states of matter - solid, liquid, gas, and energy/plasma. So if a creature that came from a planet with an environment like one of Jupiter's moons, for example, went traveling to the Elemental Planes it would find H2O as a solid on the Plane of Earth, while its version of Water would be liquid methane or something similar.

After all, the Prime Material Plane encompasses an infinite number of environments, so it's pretty silly to assume that all of the other planes just happen to be variations of Earth.

qcbtnsrm
2010-12-24, 03:22 PM
Hope it's not distilled water. Because that is bad to drink.

What makes you say that? Distilled water is is just pure water (well pure-ish, it still has any number of trace elements, just not as much as most ground waters). It is safely used as a primary drinking source by millions around the world, including everyone serving on US Navy ships.

Erom
2010-12-24, 03:51 PM
What makes you say that? Distilled water is is just pure water (well pure-ish, it still has any number of trace elements, just not as much as most ground waters). It is safely used as a primary drinking source by millions around the world, including everyone serving on US Navy ships.

There are a lot of degrees of "distilled". The kind used on Navy ships is only distilled once generally (still plenty of trace elements left) while the kind used in a laboratory setting (around triple distilled, usually) can be much more pure.

Really, really pure water (like the 4 and 5x stuff) is actually pretty dangerous due to it's incredibly aggressive dissolving tendencies. There are incidents of someone in a lab drinking nearly-pure water and it pulling the fillings out of their teeth.

Super-pure water isn't like... hydrochloric acid dangerous, but it's still pretty hazardous to drink.

boomwolf
2010-12-24, 03:53 PM
No, that's purified water.

Distilled water is potentially fatal to a human to drink because it have very little to no salts at all in it, making a dialyzes-like effect that causes your cells to suck it into them, become swollen and eventually explode from inner water pressure.


NOT good for health.

Purified is just cleaned from toxics, bio-waste and stuff. it has a rather normal amount of salts and minerals.


EDIT:rouge'd (what? I stick to classics.)

Cealocanth
2010-12-24, 03:56 PM
Here's a bit of a spanner to throw into the works: The four classical elements parallel the four states of matter - solid, liquid, gas, and energy/plasma. So if a creature that came from a planet with an environment like one of Jupiter's moons, for example, went traveling to the Elemental Planes it would find H2O as a solid on the Plane of Earth, while its version of Water would be liquid methane or something similar.

After all, the Prime Material Plane encompasses an infinite number of environments, so it's pretty silly to assume that all of the other planes just happen to be variations of Earth.

That's a good point. Alien creatures may find that the elements that exist here are different than the state that they're used to. A creature used to ice may find that liquid water is extremely hot, like touching liquid metal.

It is a bit silly how they all take variations of Earth and the way the element usually is on Earth is the normal there.

It's only silly, however, if the elemental planes are actually separate dimensions than the main world. In my campaign, they actually have a geographical location on the planet's surface. The Feywild is an Australia sized continent to the south-west of the Elemental Chaos which is north of the Shadowfell. All of which lies below the Astral Sea that forms the ring around the planet. I may be doing 4e, but it still applies with the 3.5 planes.

Erom
2010-12-24, 04:01 PM
It's only silly, however, if the elemental planes are actually separate dimensions than the main world. In my campaign, they actually have a geographical location on the planet's surface. The Feywild is an Australia sized continent to the south-west of the Elemental Chaos which is north of the Shadowfell. All of which lies below the Astral Sea that forms the ring around the planet. I may be doing 4e, but it still applies with the 3.5 planes.

I also do this in 4e. The feywild is the unexplored, heart-of-darkness style "africa" continent to the south of the civilized lands, with the rest of the planes scattered in logical locations. I still use elemental planes rather than the Chaos though - the plane of Fire is just the planet's core.

Godskook
2010-12-24, 04:11 PM
EDIT:rouge'd (what? I stick to classics.)

Wouldn't the "classic" be "thief'd"?

Tvtyrant
2010-12-24, 04:16 PM
Wouldn't the "classic" be "thief'd"?

Hobbit Burglared >_>

qcbtnsrm
2010-12-24, 07:24 PM
There are a lot of degrees of "distilled". The kind used on Navy ships is only distilled once generally (still plenty of trace elements left) while the kind used in a laboratory setting (around triple distilled, usually) can be much more pure.

Really, really pure water (like the 4 and 5x stuff) is actually pretty dangerous due to it's incredibly aggressive dissolving tendencies. There are incidents of someone in a lab drinking nearly-pure water and it pulling the fillings out of their teeth.

Super-pure water isn't like... hydrochloric acid dangerous, but it's still pretty hazardous to drink.

I'm going to have to ask for more than a random anecdote if you want to convince me.

I've drunk NCCLS Type I water before with no ill effects. Water so pure it has to be stored in specialty silicone containers, not glass or plastic because they will leach trace elements into the water. It was about as pure as water gets on planet Earth. All my fillings remained intact, my cells did not explode from mineral migration and my bones were not unduly leached.

Likewise it is more or less unheard of to distill past ddH2O (double distilled). If you need more pure water, combination methods are preferred such as adding deionization, electrodialysis, filtration, & reverse osmosis prior to distillation.

The reason groups like the World Health Organization recommend against distilled water is not because of some innate toxicity of extraordinarily pure water. It is because it can be an important source of calcium, magnesium and sodium (and other minerals) especially among groups with poor nutrition.

senrath
2010-12-24, 08:46 PM
Yeah, DI water isn't bad for you. It's just not good for you either.

erikun
2010-12-25, 12:58 AM
Distilled water is potentially fatal to a human to drink because it have very little to no salts at all in it, making a dialyzes-like effect that causes your cells to suck it into them, become swollen and eventually explode from inner water pressure.
I think you might be overstating the danger a bit. Yes, pure water is lacking in salts and would attempt to dissolve any salts into a solution. This means that if you were immersed in a swimming pool of it, the water would likely leech away the oils and salt on your body, irritating your skin. It might also be rather unpleasant to open your eyes in. I wouldn't expect much more than minor irritation from such treatment, though. It would certainly be a problem all over your body, but hardly potentially fatal if you don't stay in.

And drinking it wouldn't cause your cells to explode. Water absorbed through the mouth and stomach would pass through those cell walls first - any H2O present in your body would be the same, regardless of source. Drinking several gallons of the stuff would likely irritate the inside of your mouth and stomach - much for the same reasons as above - but the largest health risk would probably be an ulcer. You're not in the same danger as, say, putting a saltwater fish in a freshwater tank.

2xMachina
2010-12-25, 06:23 AM
It does have a record of making single cell bacteria explode though. (Or so my Biology lessons tell me.) But I think we'll be OK.

And you would not like losing salt. Sports drinks exists so that you keep a balanced salt level when you're losing and replacing a lot of water.

FelixG
2010-12-25, 06:29 AM
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-distilled-water.htm



There is some evidence that distilled water does absorb carbon dioxide when exposed to air, and this could conceivably lower the pH to a more acidic level. This increased acidity can in turn create more health problems. Proponents of distilled water suggest that humans receive far more minerals and nutrients from food than water, so the effects of distilled water on the body should be minimal at best. The flavor of distilled water can be improved with natural fruit juices or essences, if necessary.


Really there's a chance it could hurt but its not like it will kill you if you take a nice big drink of it, even if it does taste odd...

So go ahead and drink up...granted I dont know the validity of this article I just googled it and gave it a read over :smalleek:

Runestar
2010-12-25, 06:29 AM
I merely thought distilled water just leeches minerals from you, so your body actually loses nutrients when you drink it? :smallconfused:

Bayar
2010-12-25, 06:38 AM
There is some evidence that distilled water does absorb carbon dioxide when exposed to air, and this could conceivably lower the pH to a more acidic level. This increased acidity can in turn create more health problems. Proponents of distilled water suggest that humans receive far more minerals and nutrients from food than water, so the effects of distilled water on the body should be minimal at best. The flavor of distilled water can be improved with natural fruit juices or essences, if necessary.

Kinda defeats the purpose of distilling the water of every impurity.

Salbazier
2010-12-25, 07:39 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distilled_water#Drinking_distilled_water

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purified_water#Health_effects

Nothing there suggest aggressive dissolving properties or overosmosis (make up words yay!) effect. In fact overosmosis is impossible because the water will not be pure anymore the moment it mix with saliva.

In fact according to this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Properties_of_water#Acidity_in_nature), pure water is neutral since it have equal amount of Hydroxide and Hydronium ions


It does have a record of making single cell bacteria explode though. (Or so my Biology lessons tell me.) But I think we'll be OK.


Well, a bacteria submerged in it and a human driknking is pretty different. Heck, I doubt we will blow up even if submerged in it. Our body have a lots of means of protection.