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stormywaters
2010-12-25, 01:43 AM
Hey everyone! This is a work in progress, so bear with me. Feel free to ask questions.

I have moved all the information to a newly created blog, so I can more easily update, format, and share it with everyone. So if you're interested, click this handy-dandy link: http://homebrewnook.blogspot.com/2011/01/zombies-rpg.html

The Classes:
Bruiser - Military or policeman that was killed by the hordes. Came back to life, still wearing his body armor and knows how to use weapons. Big trouble for the people trying to kill him!

NOTE: The below information is being kept for historical reference. The most recent information is here. (http://homebrewnook.blogspot.com/2011/01/bruiser.html)

Starting talents:
Armor – You gain a +1 class bonus to AC
Weapon Use (single) – Choose one simple weapon. You can now use that weapon, if you find one.

Talent Trees:

Armored Talent Tree: The zombie learns to make better use of the armor it died in.

• Extra Armor: The zombie gains +2 class bonus to AC

• Improved Extra Armor: The zombie gains an additional +2 class bonus to AC (total of +4)
- Requires Extra Armor

• Advanced Armor: The zombie gains an additional +2 class bonus to AC (total of +6)
- Requires Improved Extra Armor

• Bulletproof: You reduce all damage dealt to you by guns by 2 points per attack.
- Requires Improved Extra Armor

• Invulnerable: You gain the "Invulnerable" power:

Invulnerable - Recharge Encounter
Minor Action
Targets: Personal
Result: Until the start of your next turn, you cannot take damage.
- Requires Advanced Armor


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Weapon Skill Talent Tree: The zombie recalls weapon usage learned in life.

• Weapon Skill – Simple: The zombie learns to use all simple weapons.

• Weapon Skill – Moderate: The zombie learns to use moderate weapons.
- Requires Weapon Skill – Simple

• Weapon Skill – Guns: The zombie learns to fire guns, but cannot reload or unjam them.
- Requires Weapon Skill - Moderate

• Advanced Weapon Skill – Simple: The zombie gains a +1 bonus to hit and a +1 bonus to damage with simple weapons.
- Requires Weapon Skill – Simple

• Advanced Weapon Skill – Moderate: The zombie gains a +1 bonus to hit and a +1 bonus to damage with moderate weapons.
- Requires Weapon Skill – Moderate

• Advanced Weapon Skill – Guns: The zombie can now reload and unjam guns, and gains a +1 bonus to hit with guns.
- Requires Weapon Skill - Guns


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PARTIAL TREE IN PROGRESS

Rager Talent Tree: The plague has made you berserk, granting superhuman abilities, but at a cost.

• Blood Frenzy: Once per encounter, after an adjacent enemy has taken at least 1 point of damage, you can enter a Blood Frenzy, which lasts for a number of rounds equal to (3 + your Resilience modifier):
o While in this Blood Frenzy, you gain a +2 bonus to melee attack rolls, a +2 to bonus melee damage rolls, and you take a -2 penalty to AC. While you are in this state, you cannot make ranged attacks or use spells, and you must attack the nearest enemy each turn; if no enemies remain, you must attack the nearest creature, even if it is a friend.
o When the Blood Frenzy ends, you are weakened and slowed for a number of rounds equal to the number of rounds you were Frenzied, minus your Resilience modifier.

• Vitalizing Frenzy: While you are in a Blood Frenzy, you gain temporary hit points equal to your Resilience modifier at the start of each of your turns.
- Requires Blood Frenzy

• Terrifying Fury: While you are in a Blood Frenzy, you have an aura of fear. You gain a +2 bonus to Intimidate checks. You can make an Intimidate check against each enemy adjacent to you, except one enemy you specify, with a DC equal to (15 + the target’s level). For each enemy that you successfully Intimidate, that enemy must take a move action on their next turn to move their speed away from you, and they cannot move closer to you until the start of their next turn. Moving away from you as a result of this ability does not provoke opportunity attacks.
- Requires Blood Frenzy


Zombrat - A child that was turned into a zombie. Not as strong or fast, but plays on human psychology: people have a tough time killing a child.

NOTE: The below information is being kept for historical reference. The most recent information is here. (http://homebrewnook.blogspot.com/2011/01/zom-brat.html)

Mind Game Talent Tree: The zombie manipulates people, using its childish appearance as a weapon.

• Harmless Appearance: Enemies don’t see you as a threat, and ignore you most of the time. Each round, enemies must succeed on a Willpower test (DC 15 + ½ your level) or they cannot attack you that round. Once you attack a creature, that creature is immune to this effect for the remainder of the encounter.

• Helpless Appearance: Using your child-like frailty, you lure your unwitting prey out of hiding and into your reach. You gain the “Help Me!” Power:

Help Me! - No Recharge
Standard Action - No attack roll
Targets: One creature within 5 squares that can see and hear the zombrat

Result: At the start of the target’s next turn, the target makes a Willpower Test (DC = 15 + ½ your level). If they fail the test, they spend their turn moving as close to you as possible and attempting to calm you. They can take no actions other than to speak to you. At the start of each of the target’s turns, they can make another Willpower test; if they fail, they continue to believe you are in need of assistance, and the effect continues. If they succeed, the effect ends and they are immune to this effect permanently.

Special: This effect ends as soon as the target takes damage.
- Requires Harmless Appearance

• Frightening Appearance: Your creepy appearance scares people more than full-sized zombies do! Each enemy within 5 squares of you that can also hear and see you must make a Willpower test at the start of each turn. If they fail the test, they must immediately move out of the range of this power. If they cannot move out of range of this power, they move as far as possible and then cower. You may suppress or resume this power as a minor action.
- Requires Helpless Appearance

• Improved Harmless Appearance: Increase the DC of Harmless Appearance to 15 + your level.
- Requires Harmless Appearance

• Improved Helpless Appearance: Enemies do not make a Willpower test the first round you use this power against them.
- Requires Helpless Appearance

• Improved Frightening Appearance: Increase the range of Frightening Appearance to 10 squares.
- Requires Frightening Appearance


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Low-Strike Talent Tree: Being so low to the ground makes it tough to reach the sweet spots, so you gotta bring 'em down to your level!

• Hamstring: Whenever you attack a creature’s legs, that creature is slowed until they receive medical assistance.

• Unexpected Strike: When you’re behind a creature and attack its legs, you deal an additional 1d6 damage for every two levels of Zombrat you have.

• Tendon Snap: Each time you would deal extra damage with Unexpected Strike, you may skip the extra damage to attempt to snap your enemy’s tendons. The enemy must make a Resilience test (DC = 15 + ½ your level); if they fail, they fall prone and cannot stand (until they receive medical assistance).
- Requires Unexpected Strike


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Imagination Talent Tree: Your childish imagination becomes reality due to some strange aspect of your plague.

• Imagination Rank 1: You gain the ability to manifest powers. Your manifester level is equal to your Zombrat levels (see Powers, chapter 5), to a maximum at level 3.

• Imagination Rank 2: Your powers grow. Increase your maximum manifester level to 6; it is still no higher than your levels in Zombrat, but the maximum is now higher.
- Requires Imagination Rank 1

• Imagination Rank 3: Your powers grow. Increase your maximum manifester level to 10; it is still no higher than your levels in Zombrat, but the maximum is now higher.
- Requires Imagination Rank 2

• Improved Imagination: Increase the DCs of all powers you manifest by 1.
- Special: You may take this talent multiple times.
- Requires Imagination Rank 1

• Enhanced Imagination: You learn 2 new powers, each of which must be one level lower than the highest power you can manifest.
- Special: You may take this talent multiple times.
- Requires Imagination Rank 2

• Advanced Imagination: Increase damage dice of your powers by one step (for example: your powers that deal some number of d6 damage now deal that same number of d8 damage).
- Requires Imagination Rank 3, Improved Imagination



The Crawler - Zombie without legs. Slow, to be sure, but also strong (dragging your body makes you tough). Has a subtle advantage, in that people don't often see you coming if you aren't out in the open. You can pop out from under a table or inside a cabinet!

NOTE: The below information is being kept for historical reference. The most recent information is here. (http://homebrewnook.blogspot.com/2011/01/crawler.html)

Starting Talents:
Legless – Your speed is equal to your Strength modifier. You gain a climb speed equal to half your speed.
Hidden Threat – While a non-crawler zombie is within 10 squares of an enemy, that enemy does not react to you until you attack it. (It’s not that they can’t see you, but they are more concerned with bigger threats!)

Talent Trees:
Piggyback Talent Tree: You can overpower your enemies and use their bodies to your advantage.

• Piggyback: You gain the “Piggyback” power:

Piggyback - No Recharge
Standard Action - Opposed Strength Test
Requirements: You must be behind your target, and on top of a piece of furniture (or another object) at least waist height to your target.
Targets: One adjacent enemy

Effect: If you succeed on the opposed Strength check, you climb on your opponent’s back, and are now considered “piggybacked”. While piggybacked, you use your target’s movement modes and movement speed. Additionally, you cannot attack any other creatures, you may only attack once per round, and you may only use your bite attack. Creatures that attack you take a -2 on attack rolls (unless they are directly behind you).

Special: Your target may make an opposed Strength check against you to remove you, as a full round action. Otherwise this effect lasts until you choose to end it, or until the target dies.

• Improved Piggyback: While you are piggybacked, you can force your target to attack. On your turn, you can skip your normal attack to make your full number of attacks (as though you weren’t piggybacked) against an adjacent creature. Use your own Strength and attack bonus, but your enemy’s weapon damage.
- Requires Piggyback

• Advanced Piggyback: You tap directly into your opponent’s spinal cord when you use Piggyback. Your target cannot make opposed Strength tests to remove you, and you can take your normal allotment of moves, using your target’s movement modes, speed, and weapon damage. When you choose to no longer be piggybacked, your target returns to normal.
- Requires Improved Piggyback

• Practiced Piggyback: You gain a +2 talent bonus to Strength checks against piggyback targets.
- Requires Piggyback

• Piggyback Defense: You gain the “Piggyback Defense” power:

Piggyback Defense - Recharge 6
Interrupt - Opposed Strength Test vs Piggybacked Opponent
Trigger: An enemy makes a melee attack roll against you

Result: If you succeed on the opposed Strength test, you successfully turn your piggybacked opponent around to face the attack. Your piggybacked opponent takes all damage from the attack.
- Requires Piggyback
Note: It will be explained in the book what recharge means. Recharge 6 means you roll a d6 at the start of your turn; a 6 means the power is ready to use again


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PARTIAL TREE IN PROGRESS

Gotcha! Talent Tree: They didn’t even see you coming.

• Surprise Strike: While an enemy doesn’t notice you, your attacks against that enemy deal an additional 1d6 damage. Yes, this also works with your Hidden Threat ability!

• Hide in Plain Sight: You vanish into the shadows, under furniture, or out of your opponent’s field of vision. You gain the “Hide in Plain Sight” power:

Hide in Plain Sight - No Recharge
Full Round - No Roll
Targets: An adjacent enemy

Result: The enemy is affected by your “Hidden Threat” talent, as though you had not attacked that enemy this encounter; the target must still meet the other requirements of “Hidden Threat”.


• Improved Surprise Strike: Increase your Surprise Strike damage by one die size.
- Requires Surprise Strike

• Subtle Surprise Strike: When you deal damage with your Surprise Strike, your enemy doesn’t notice you until the start of your next turn.
- Requires Surprise Strike, level 5

NOTE: I will be adding another talent at the end of the tree (after I sort out a couple more talents) with the following theme behind it: If an enemy is running away or if an enemy doesn't know there is any nearby danger (like they haven't seen your party or anything), you can teleport next to them and make an attack. This would be an encounter or daily type thing, but it is supposed to represent the fact that in movies, people are always suddenly caught by the legless zombie out of nowhere, no matter how unlikely it is.


Putrefactor - You are a host of infection and disease, which sickens and damages nearby humans.

NOTE: The below information is being kept for historical reference. The most recent information is here. (http://homebrewnook.blogspot.com/2011/01/putrefactor.html)

Starting Talents:
Diseased Blood – Enemies that bite you take 1d6 poison damage. In addition, when you become bloodied each enemy adjacent to you takes 1d6 poison damage.
Diseased Saliva – You can spit at enemies adjacent to you. Treat this as a ranged attack that does not provoke opportunity attacks and deals 1d4 poison damage. In addition, your bite attacks deal an additional 1d4 poison damage.

Disease Cloud Talent Tree: Your diseases seep out of you, spreading to nearby foes.

• Disease Cloud: At the start of your turn, each enemy adjacent to you must make a Resilience test (DC = 12 + ½ your Putrefactor class level); if they fail, they spend their next turn nauseated.

• Extended Disease Cloud: Increase the range of your disease cloud by 1 square.
- Special: You may take this talent multiple times
- Requires Disease Cloud

• Virulent Disease Cloud: Increase the DC of your Disease Cloud by 2.
- Special: You may take this talent multiple times
- Requires Disease Cloud

• Pestilent Disease Cloud: Each enemy that fails its Resilience test against your Disease Cloud takes 1d6 poison damage.
- Requires Virulent Disease Cloud

• Plague Master: Increase the poison damage you deal (from all sources) by 1d6 per three Putrefactor class levels.
- Requires Pestilent Disease Cloud


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Consumptive Infection Talent Tree: A mere bite can kill.

• Consumptive Infection: When you make a successful bite attack against a creature, that creature becomes infected by your Consumptive Infection.
Creatures infected with your Consumptive Infection must pass a Resilience test (DC = 10 + ½ your Putrefactor class level) at the start of its turn or take 1d6 poison damage. The first time a creature succeeds on a Resilience test, the infection is removed. Note: A creature can’t be subjected to more than one of your infections at a time.

• Virulent Infection: Increase the DC of your Consumptive Infection by 2.
- Special: You may take this talent multiple times
- Requires Consumptive Infection

• Caustic Infection: Increase the damage of your Consumptive Infection by one die step.
- Special: You may take this talent multiple times
- Requires Consumptive Infection

• Nauseating Infection: Creatures infected with your Consumptive Infection are nauseated in addition to any other effects.
- Requires Consumptive Infection

• Weakening Infection: Whenever a creature fails the Resilience test to resist your Consumptive Infection, it takes a cumulative -1 penalty to further tests to resist the infection. This penalty lasts until the creature succeeds on a Resilience test to resist your Consumptive Infection.
- Requires Consumptive Infection, level 5

• Accelerated Infection: Whenever a creature fails the Resilience test to resist your Consumptive Infection, it takes 1d6 additional poison damage for each consecutive time it has failed this test (the first time it fails the test it takes an extra 1d6 damage, the second time fails the test it takes an extra 2d6 damage, and so on).
- Requires Consumptive Infection, level 7


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Spitting Plague Talent Tree: A mere bite can kill.

• Spitting Plague: Increase the range you can spit your Diseased Saliva to 5 squares and increase the damage to 1d6 poison damage (this increased damage affects your bite attacks also).

• Enhanced Poison: Increase the range you can spit your Diseased Saliva by 5 squares, and increase the damage by one die step.
- Special: You can take this talent two times
- Requires Spitting Plague

• Lingering Plague: When you spit your Diseased Saliva, the target’s square is filled with a cloud of poison until the end of your next turn. Each living creature that starts or ends its turn in the square takes 1d6 poison damage.
- Requires Spitting Plague

• Spreading Plague: When you spit your Diseased Saliva, the target’s square and each square adjacent to it is filled with a cloud of poison until the end of your next turn. Each living creature that starts or ends its turn in the square takes 1d6 poison damage.
- Requires Lingering Plague

• Split Shot: You can spit your Diseased Saliva at two creatures with each attack, as long as those creatures are within three squares of each other.
- Requires Spitting Plague

• Endless Plague: The cloud of poison created by your Lingering Plague or Spreading Plague lasts until the end of the encounter.
- Requires Spitting Plague, either Lingering Plague or Spreading Plague, level 7.



Preserved - You appear mostly human still, and can easily blend in with other humans.

NOTE: The below information is being kept for historical reference. The most recent information is here. (http://homebrewnook.blogspot.com/2011/01/preserved.html)

Starting Talents:
Blend In – Most humans don’t realize you are undead until you make it obvious. You can’t use items or speak (unless you have talents that allow you to), but you can walk around in public and not draw attention immediately. This ability is most-useful blending in with crowds or anonymous groups of people.
Limited Motor Skills – You can manipulate simple objects, such as doorknobs, levers, or pick up items, though you cannot necessarily use items you pick up. You can’t throw items or use tools (unless a talent allows you to).

Item Use Talent Tree – You begin to recall how to use items

• Tool Use: You gain the ability to utilize simple (and unpowered) hand tools and other small objects. This list includes (but isn’t limited to) hammers, crowbars, screwdrivers, wrenches, etc. You can even spend money! Use your imagination! Note: This does not confer the ability to wield weapons.

• Weapon Use: You can now use simple weapons.
- Requires Tool Use

• Fine Tool Use: You can now use tools that can require fine manipulation. This includes (but is not limited to) needle and thread, pen and paper, typewriters, anything that requires using individual fingers to use properly. Note: You can use various communication media, but unless you know another language (such as Human), you cannot write anything that non-zombies would understand.
- Requires Tool Use

• Machine Use: You can now use common machinery, though not skillfully. You can use hand-held power tools, jackhammers, and even operate vehicles (among other things); any powered objects that only require a couple of different actions at a time to use (for instance, a car only requires the use of a steering wheel and two pedals at any one time). Note: While you know how to operate a vehicle, this simply means you know how to switch from park to drive (and vice versa), how to steer, and how to use the pedals. You do not know proper driving rules (speed limits, traffic lights, lanes, etc) but you can at least stay on the road. You just know how to operate the machinery. Probably best to drive when no other traffic is around!
- Requires Fine Tool Use

• Improved Machine Use: You know the basics of “acceptable” machine use. You can stay within the lanes, follow traffic signals, etc.
- Requires Machine Use


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Language Talent Tree – You start to remember how to talk to others.

• Crude Language: You learn a crude version of the Human language. You can speak to humans in very short sentences (little more than “Yes”, “No”, “I’m Hungry”, etc). You might often say “Huh?” or “What?” unless people speak to you slowly and carefully. You can pass as human, but most people will think you have a mental deficiency. You will not fit in at most places, where the mentally handicapped would be out of place, so be careful not to draw attention to yourself! You can converse for a number of minutes equal to 3 + your Preserved class level before people start to catch on. You are better off getting in and out before people start asking questions!

• Improved Language: You can now talk in mostly complete sentences and convey complete thoughts, though deeper thoughts are beyond you. You lack the ability to “small talk” as well as a number of human devices (such as sarcasm, joking, or persuasion). You can only speak directly and convey the message you are attempting to convey in the simplest manner possible. You can remain undetected while conversing for a number of minutes equal to 5 + twice your Preserved class level.
- Requires Crude Language

• Perfect Language: You can now talk completely normally. People will never know you are a zombie simply by talking to you.
- Requires Improved Language

• Power of Persuasion: You can now persuade others to do things for you. When you’re talking to a human, you may ask them a favor. They make a Willpower check or perform the action for you, with a DC set by the favor you’re asking for:
DC Favor Example
20 Requires almost no effort “Can I use your pen?”
15 Requires some movement “Can you help me carry this to my car?”
10 Requires effort or money “Will you go downtown and pick up a drill for me?”
5 Obviously dangerous “Climb into that throttling wood-chipper”
+5 Seems completely harmless “Will you go get my car keys from the other room?”
-10 Seems potentially dangerous “Come with me into this dark alley.”
- Requires Perfect Language


The Ringleader - Intentionally infected themselves to build an army of the dead.

NOTE: The below information is being kept for historical reference. The most recent information is here. (http://homebrewnook.blogspot.com/2011/01/ringleader.html)

Automatic Talents:
Raise Minion – As a standard action, select one corpse within 5 squares of you. That corpse follows your commands, but has no actions of its own. You may spend one or more of your actions to grant each of your zombie minions the same type of action, which they take during your turn (for instance you can skip your standard action to grant them each a standard action, following commands you give them). Use the following stat block:

Strength: 10 Agility: 10
Resilience: 10 Willpower: 8
AC: 15 Hit Points: (Your bloodied value)
Move Actions – Move 5 squares or shift 1 square
Standard Actions - Attack: +4 attack bonus, 1d6 damage.
Minor Actions: None
You may have only one zombie minion at a time. As a minor action, you can release your control over a zombie to raise a new minion; if you do, the zombie you released dies and cannot be raised again. Raising the new zombie requires a standard action as normal.

Twisted Mending – You gain the “Twisted Mending” power:

Twisted Mending - Recharge 5 6
Full Round Action - No Roll
Targets: One zombie and one living creature, both within 5 squares of you

Effect: The living creature takes 1d4 damage and the zombie target regains twice that number of hit points.

Special: Each time this power targets one of your zombie minions, reduce that minion’s maximum number of hit points by 1.

Talent Trees:

Necromancer Talent Tree: Your ability to raise the dead is unmatched.

• Improved Raise Minion: You can now control two zombie minions.
- Requires Raise Minion

• Toughened Hide: Your zombie minions gain +1 AC.
- Special: You may take this talent multiple times

• Combat Corpse: Increase the Strength and Resilience of your zombie minions by 2.
- Special: You may take this talent up to twice
- Requires Toughened Hide

• Bane of the Living: When your zombie minions attack a living creature, they deal an additional 2 points of damage.
- Special: You may take this talent multiple times
- Requires Combat Corpse

• Improved Toughened Hide: Your zombie minions gain Resist Damage – All (1)
- Special: You may take this talent multiple times. Each time you do, increase the resistance it grants by 1 point.
- Requires: Toughened Hide, level 7

• Life Tap: When your zombie minions deal damage to living creatures, they regain hit points equal to the damage they dealt.
- Requires: Raise Minion, level 9


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Cruel Surgeon Talent Tree: Your mastery over unlife allows you to knit flesh, for good or bad.

• Corpse Stitching: When you use your “Twisted Mending” power, if you are adjacent to the undead target, the undead target regains an additional 1d6 hit points.

• The Best Defense…: Each zombie minion within 5 squares of you gains a +4 bonus to AC.

• … Is a Good Offense: Each living creature within 5 squares of you takes a -4 penalty to AC, as long as a zombie minion is also within 5 squares of you.
- Requires The Best Defense…

• Improved Corpse Stitching: Increase the bonus hit points gained by Corpse Stitching to 2d6.
- Requires Corpse Stitching

• Advanced Mending: Increase the damage die of Twisted Mending by one step.
- Requires Corpse Stitching

• Wave of Desecration: Once per day, as a standard action, you may have each undead creature within 5 squares of you regain 3d6 hit points. When you do, you may have each living creature within 5 squares of you take damage equal to the total hit points healed by this ability.
- Requires Twisted Mending, level 7

• Corpse Explosion: You gain the "Corpse Explosion" power:

Corpse Explosion - Recharge Encounter
Standard Action
Targets: One zombie minion you control within 10 squares.
Result: Your zombie minion explodes, dealing damage equal to its current hit points, to each creature within 5 squares of it.
- Requires Twisted Mending, level 9



The Hunter- Running zombies! They aren't as strong or durable, but they close the distance while their brethren are still getting shot at.

NOTE: The below information is being kept for historical reference. The most recent information is here. (http://homebrewnook.blogspot.com/2011/01/hunter.html)

Automatic Talents:
Unmatched Speed – Your speed is increased by 2. Once per day, you can spend a minor action to increase your speed by an additional 2 until the end of your turn.
Unnatural Agility – You gain a +4 bonus to all of your Athletics checks and Acrobatics checks, and you can roll these checks twice, using either result.

Talent Trees:


PARTIAL TREE IN PROGRESS

Pick Them Off Talent Tree: You specialize in separating your prey from the pack before striking.

• Shadow Stalker: While you are in an area of low light, enemies can’t see you.

• Strike from the Shadows: While you are in an area of low light, your attacks deal an additional 1d6 damage.

• What Was That?: You can make a distracting noise, or a flash of light, drawing your prey away from their friends and into your trap. You gain the “What Was That?” power:

What Was That? - Recharge 6
Minor Action - No Roll
Targets: The nearest enemy to you, within 15 squares

Result: The target makes a Willpower test, with a DC equal to (15 + your Hunter level). If the target fails the test, they spend their next turn moving twice their speed away from their allies, toward you. While moving, they tell their allies to wait behind while they investigate. At the start of your target’s following turn (the turn after they moved), if they haven’t noticed you, they return to their allies.
- Requires Shadow Stalker

• To The Rafters!: You can snatch your prey and leap into the rafters to feast in safety and cover. You gain the “To The Rafters!” power:

To The Rafters! - No Recharge
Move Action - Opposed Strength check and Athletics check DC 15
Targets: An adjacent enemy

Result: Make an opposed Strength check, followed by an Athletics check to jump. If you succeed on the opposed Strength check, you successfully grab the target. If you also succeed on the Athletics check, you leap into the rafters – or similar area such as a loft, into trees, etc – bringing the target with you. If you succeed on both rolls with this power, you and the target are hidden in the shadows and cannot be seen by anyone on the ground.
- Requires What Was That?


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PARTIAL TREE IN PROGRESS

Run Them Down Talent Tree: No matter how fast your prey, they are no match for your undead speed.

• Increased Unmatched Speed: Increase the bonus of your Unmatched Speed by 1.
- Special: You may take this talent up to three times.

• Agile Chase: When you are moving, you ignore any objects or terrain lower than waist-high (such as tables, chairs, rubble, small children, etc).
- Requires Unnatural Agility

• Truly Unnatural Agility: You can make any or all of your movement during a turn along a wall or ceiling. If you end your turn on a wall or ceiling you fall prone.
- Requires Unnatural Agility, level 5

• Truly Unmatched Speed: Once per round when a creature moves away from you, you may immediately move the same number of spaces, plus one extra space, towards the creature that moved away from you.
- Requires Unmatched Speed, level 5


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The Shambler - Stereotypical zombies; slow-moving, groaning, etc. Not great in any one category, but decent across the board. They don't suffer the drawbacks of the other classes.

You can see the current talent trees for this class here. (http://homebrewnook.blogspot.com/2011/01/shambler.html)

BarroomBard
2010-12-25, 02:30 AM
I think you have to go goofy - it would be tough to sustain a dark mood when the characters are running around craving brains and losing limbs all the time. Maybe go for a morbid humor...

I think the roleplaying aspects should focus an existentail mystery - why are we suddenly zombies?

stormywaters
2010-12-25, 02:42 AM
So do I make the players mostly intelligent, like almost as smart as normal humans then? I mean, if I do that, then any campaign could happen, just like any other rpg. I don't want to make the game have a specific goal, or each campaign won't feel unique.

Doggie_arf
2010-12-25, 03:03 AM
This sounds like Urban (http://www.urbandead.com/index.html) Dead (http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/). As a tabletop RPG. Which, in my opinion, is freaking awesome.

When does playtesting start? :smallbiggrin:

stormywaters
2010-12-25, 03:11 AM
This sounds like Urban (http://www.urbandead.com/index.html) Dead (http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/). As a tabletop RPG. Which, in my opinion, is freaking awesome.

When does playtesting start? :smallbiggrin:

haha! well i'm glad to see some interest at least! as soon as I can figure out the roleplaying aspect, I might want to try a little testing on the forums. i'll post vague class descriptions in the original post in a few minutes. feel free to give me ideas for special abilities.

stormywaters
2010-12-25, 03:23 AM
Ok, added the classes. Feel free to suggest more. I wanted to run 8, but couldn't think of others.

Also, feel free to suggest special abilities for each of the classes.

Doggie_arf
2010-12-25, 03:28 AM
Need to think a bit - I'm actually a bit rusty in the zombie-related field. Hmm........


How were they animated in the first place? Magic? Viral infection? Sheer force of will (ala Reg Shoe of Discworld)? This could give your zombie different abilities depending on the force that drives them (for instance, your virulent undead could specialize in spreading the Virus and other toxins via natural attacks or bodily secretion. If you're feeling adventurous, these two Flash (http://armorgames.com/play/505/sonny) games (http://armorgames.com/play/2900/sonny-2) may give you some inspiration for attacks, as well as a possible take on the intelligent zombie theme.).
Undead mobility - are we going with your typical lurching zombie as the norm, or the fast moving, psychotic L4D style undead ravers? If the former, would there be traits that can improve their speed, or give them some ability to slow their enemies down to their level? (Mental image of the animated front half of a corpse pulling a panicking human meatbag down for some feasting).
Communication - Are they capable of comprehending human speech and writing, or is that something that they can never (or have to) recover? Are they able to communicate (http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Guides:The_Zombie_Lexicon) with humankind?


Just a few ideas from the top of my head.

Also, thinking of zombies on a fine Christmas Day is kinda morbid. Fun, but morbid........ :smalleek:

ADDENDUM:

Hmm........lemme see........

Existing "Classes":


The Armored Zombie: An improved affinity for (simple) manufactured weapons (something like relearning old training in their former lives)? Possibly some ability to assimilate their body armor into their own flesh as (enhanceable) natural armor, although that could be a bit far-fetched.
The Child Zombie: Reminds me of the Slaymate from Libris Mortis. Bit of a tough call - perhaps some psychological abilities, like, say, fear effects/auras against humans. Or perhaps a Sympathy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sympathy.htm) like effect to lure those tasty harmanz in for the kill.
The Crawler: Grappling and tripping for the win. Possibly an ability to climb up and "ride" on hapless humans, Jockey-style. Able to mutate/evolve those loose intestines to form a third grappling limb or combat tentacles?
The Rager: All related Rage-like abilities that can be adapted from normal D&D (like, say, a "Frenzied Berserker" that starts clawing at his brazzahz once all the tasty brains are gone?). Improved regeneration/strength/resilience when raging. Some biological abilities stemming from the undead equivalent of adrenaline. Intimidation abilities.
The Runner: Hunter pounce time! New abilities to improve movement speed and reach. Climb speeds and jump enhancements. With a spear suitably pointy object, you could be the undead version of the Hood (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872838/Little_Red_Raiding_Hood_A_Tale_of_38_Guide_to_the_ 35_Dragoon).
The Shambler: As the "typical" jack-of-all-trades zombie, you could take abilities from most classes easily. Mix and match to find the best result!

Possible New "Class" Ideas:
The Preserved Zombie: Has very little combat ability, but rots a lot more slowly, and retains a fair portion of its original human appearance. Can pass more easily for human than other zombie types. Easiest to pick up certain abilities to help in this regard, such as relearning (one) human language or being able to manipulate simple human technology (how about manipulating that doorknob to give your less able zombie buddies an easy way in?)
The Putrescent Zombie: Leaks smelly bodily fluids from every orifice. Rots faster and has very low physical integrity, but more than makes up for that as a walking biohazard. Possible abilities include coating body or natural/manufactured weapons with infectious gore, spitting or spraying said gore as a breath weapon, or manufacturing new toxins for different effects against humans/zombies. Also possible to manipulate bodily fluids (biofeedback (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/biofeedback.htm), anyone?).

Te'Shen
2010-12-25, 09:37 AM
Well, if you're going T-virus style... anything an aberration can have, you can, too. :smalltongue:

And that could mean Awesome zombie PrCs.

Dencero
2010-12-25, 03:44 PM
Well, I was working on something before that was like this. Same premise, but the class system was different. There was a basic zombie class and at first level, they got a trait they sent them on a different evolutionary branch. It was loosely based on the zombies from Left 4 Dead, with things like Hunters, Spitters, Smokers, Tanks, and the like. I made a few of my own like Mercy, which killed humans to heal other zombies, Bloodhounds, that followed Scent Trails and got Thermal Vision, and Screamers, which let out loud sonic attacks that could deafen humans and attracted zombies. My first player was starting out by himself and chose to become a Hunter. He chased down some humans into a warehouse and killed them. But then their buddies found him and started shooting at him. He took to the rafters of the warehouse and hid. He then proceeded to pick them off one by one and drag them to the top of the shelves. I think he threw one of the bodies at an unsuspecting human. Scared the crap out of the guy and the player then proceeded to have a Human Sandwhich. Fun times were had.

If you do a playtest, color me interested.

radmelon
2010-12-26, 01:25 PM
I would also be interested in playtesting. If/When it happens, PM me.

Critical
2010-12-26, 02:22 PM
Roleplaying aspect - zombies communicate through moaning, roaring and gibberish, as it appears to humans, to them it appears to be a usual intelligible speech, problem solved.

Class ideas:

Lets borrow some stuff from L4D series:
The Smoker (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/left4dead/images/f/fd/Smoker-artwork.gif) from L4D, gets a long range tongue attack, via which he strangles his foe and drags the victim closer for a feast for himself and his buddies.
The Charger (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100224011733/left4dead/images/1/13/Charger_2.png) - self-explanatory, should kinda lift his victim on his huge arm while running and smack him against the wall.
The Jockey (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101024005652/left4dead/images/thumb/c/c1/Jockey.png/652px-Jockey.png) - this guy climbs on the victim and starts gnawing on him, can shift his weight to cause the victim to move in one direction or another.
The Spitter (http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100224012409/left4dead/images/thumb/f/f8/Spitter_2.png/397px-Spitter_2.png) - spits a nasty damaging goo, in which the longer the living victim stands, the more damage he receives. Should be useful with all these grabber guys.

My ideas:
The Psionic - a zombie which unlocked an it's unusual powers, able to affect their victim's psyche head on.
The Fatty - a meat shield version two, possibly a variant of the "armored zombie"?
The Spider - a sneaky zombie, who is able to crawl on walls and ceilings and uses it to his advantage.


Subscribing, looking forward for more and waiting for a play-test.

stormywaters
2010-12-26, 10:40 PM
Wow guys! Lots of great ideas here! Updates later tonight.

stormywaters
2010-12-27, 01:50 AM
UPDATES!!!

Check the original post. I have added some stuff for some of the classes. I am currently only running 10-level classes, and planning to (perhaps) make prestige options after 10th level.

I think each class will likely have perhaps 2 or 3 abilities that advance as the character levels, and then a 2 or 3 other abilities mixed in with those (see the classes I have updated for examples). Is this going to be too boring, do you think? I don't want to pack every level with 2 or 3 abilities each, but I guess it could be done.

What do you think of what I have so far? They aren't completed by any means, just a draft of the abilities I am working on.

Feedback!!

InfiniteNothing
2010-12-27, 02:21 AM
Hmm... Well, here's one idea that noone's suggested yet. What about more skeletal zombies? Ones that have decayed quite severely? What sorts of advantages and/or drawbacks would they have?

stormywaters
2010-12-27, 02:32 AM
Hmm... mostly decomposed zombies...

They would have... I'm not sure.

Damage mitigation? There isn't much left to injure, or perhaps certain weapons are less effective. What about increased agility/mobility? Better at hiding?

Maybe they would just have an increased fear factor. People are easily frightened by a mostly-decomposed body (more-so than a relatively normal looking body).

What do you guys think?

Doggie_arf
2010-12-27, 02:32 AM
You could go with core abilities (which every member of that "class" has by default), selectable "class" abilities (unique to the "class" but need to be picked), and general abilities that some/all classes may choose.

For instance, you could have a (scaling) climb speed ability unique to Runners, damage reduction ability that only the Armored Zombies can choose, or an "improved speed" ability selectable by anyone (except possibly Crawler zombies).

So it's going to run somewhat like the D20 Modern class system? Is it possible to "multi-class" between archetypes? If so, will scaling abilities scale with character level, or just "class" level? Also, some "class" types will, by definition, be incompatible with each other (e.g. a Preserved could also be a Child Zombie and/or a Runner, but cannot "multi-class" as a Putrescent or a Crawler due to the obvious physical differences). Prestige class options could enhance one or more existing archetypes, (possibly) reconcile two otherwise incompatible archetypes, or unlock new abilities previously unavailable to any class (such as psionic zombies).

stormywaters
2010-12-27, 02:41 AM
You could go with core abilities (which every member of that "class" has by default), selectable "class" abilities (unique to the "class" but need to be picked), and general abilities that some/all classes may choose.

For instance, you could have a (scaling) climb speed ability unique to Runners, damage reduction ability that only the Armored Zombies can choose, or an "improved speed" ability selectable by anyone (except possibly Crawler zombies).

So it's going to run somewhat like the D20 Modern class system? Is it possible to "multi-class" between archetypes? If so, will scaling abilities scale with character level, or just "class" level? Also, some "class" types will, by definition, be incompatible with each other (e.g. a Preserved could also be a Child Zombie and/or a Runner, but cannot "multi-class" as a Putrescent or a Crawler due to the obvious physical differences). Prestige class options could enhance one or more existing archetypes, (possibly) reconcile two otherwise incompatible archetypes, or unlock new abilities previously unavailable to any class (such as psionic zombies).

No it'll be like 3.5 class system. For instance:

Armored Zombie:
Level 1: +1 attack, Armor +1
Level 2: +2 attack, some other class ability
Level 3: +3 attack, Armor +2
Level 4: blah blah blah

So each level, you will gain something. Many times, it will be an increase to an existing ability (like in D&D, casters just gain new spells/slots, or rogues gain increase sneak attack as they level).

As to multiclassing, it would be possible to implement, though I haven't even started looking at the details for how to do that yet.

As far as a Prestige, I'm thinking they will solidify and split a class into a couple different options (for instance, the crawler could take a PrC that focuses more on piggybacking, or take one that focuses more on going unnoticed and popping out at an opportune moment, or something like that). I had also thought about unlocking new (previously unavailable) options.

Any thoughts on what I have posted so far for the classes?

InfiniteNothing
2010-12-27, 03:07 AM
In regards to the skeletal zombies, I think the answer is D: All of the above ideas you just mentioned. They would all do very well for a near-skeletal zombie.

The question is, is it a base class, or a prestige class based on age? Or maybe some sort of aging mechanic for zombies that grants them those traits?

stormywaters
2010-12-27, 03:21 AM
I would imagine either prestige class or a feat chain.

Critical
2010-12-27, 09:29 AM
Any thoughts on what I have posted so far for the classes?
Looks good so far, I think that you should combine previously mentioned Spitter with the Putrefactor, that'd be quite fitting. Make it a splash weapon spit attack with a recharge duration of 1d4 rounds or something, dealing 1d6 per 3 levels and inflicting various debuffs, I think that'd be fitting a lot. Also, make it that the spit stays for some time on the spot it landed, making the ones who passed through receive the same amount of damage and be subject to the debuff again. Voila, we have a nice and interesting combo of The Putrefactor and The Crawler.

Any input on the psionic zombie idea? I imagined it to be something like the controller (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PWNlDoqHrc) from STALKER.

radmelon
2010-12-27, 03:20 PM
I think a D20 Modern approach would be good, as it would give more flexibility for characters. Besides, is it's compatible with D20 Modern, you can have the most epic PvP ever. :smallcool:

stormywaters
2010-12-27, 03:23 PM
I had already planned to add the spitting ability to the putrefactor, just haven't gotten there yet. :smallsmile:

I like the idea of some kind of zombie caster, but given the humorous nature of the game, I have to flavor it right. I am rolling around ideas and I will let you know.

stormywaters
2010-12-27, 11:43 PM
Ok, looked over the d20 Modern classes again, and I love it. I have decided to switch to that system, since it fits perfectly.

Check the original post for the updated trees for the Armored Zombie (probably getting renamed). I have two trees, I'll have to come up with another.

None of the other classes have been rewritten yet.

How's it look?

radmelon
2010-12-28, 12:57 AM
When you say "Moderate" weapons, I'm assuming you mean "Archaic".

For a name, how about the "Bruiser"?

stormywaters
2010-12-28, 01:07 AM
When you say "Moderate" weapons, I'm assuming you mean "Archaic".

For a name, how about the "Bruiser"?

Bruiser sounds good!

As to weapons, I will have my own weapon tables, etc. I'm not making this as a template that just overlays the d20 modern system, it'll be a completely new game. So Moderate weapons will be archaic weapons like swords and axes, as well as other weapons that require a degree of skill beyond merely swinging wildly.

I will be drawing some things from Modern (like the system for classes, kind of), some things from 3.5, some from 4e, etc.

The book will be a complete, stand-alone system, that will be easy enough to pick up for any gamers.

stormywaters
2010-12-28, 05:20 AM
Ok, I have added more information to classes. I have two complete talent trees for the Bruiser (formerly the Armored Zombie).

I have also added three complete talent trees for the Zombrat (formerly the child zombie).

If you notice: CASTERS!!. I made the Zombrat a "caster" (psionic, I suppose). I think the flavor is pretty cool, so what do you guys think?

I'm still thinking about making a dedicated caster/psionic class, but I'm not sure yet. Also, still no word on multiclassing, but bear with me.

Feedback?

radmelon
2010-12-28, 12:53 PM
I don't really see the Zombrat a s a casting type. It seems a lot more like the witch from L4D, especially when combined with the Preserved zombie.

stormywaters
2010-12-28, 01:22 PM
Bummer. I really liked the flavor of it.

radmelon
2010-12-28, 01:28 PM
Go ahead though, it is your game. Don't let me muck things up.

stormywaters
2010-12-28, 01:50 PM
Well I will wait to see what other people think about it.

I am also going to just make the Rager another talent tree for the bruiser I think.

How do you feel about the talent trees so far?

radmelon
2010-12-28, 03:19 PM
Sounds good.

However, before we get all of the talents trees and whatnot sorted out, it may be beneficial to get the abilities, skills, and game mechanics down first.

stormywaters
2010-12-28, 03:33 PM
Well combat will be mostly the same as dungeons and dragons or most other systems. You will have standard, move, and minor actions each round. Attacks will be d20 plus mods vs AC. There won't be saving throws. it'll instead be tests of willpower (a stat) or constitution.

I don't know about skills yet.

Critical
2010-12-28, 03:46 PM
Not sure if it fits both in concept and mechanics, I mean, powers would be taken first hands-down, right? So every single child zombie is going to be a caster? Doesn't really sit right to me. These guys should be, like, real rare, otherwise they'd probably destroy the humanity by the time.

stormywaters
2010-12-28, 03:59 PM
Do you automatically choose casters in dungeons and dragons? how would this be any different? there will still be a certain number of user per day, powers known, chance to resist, etc.

Critical
2010-12-28, 04:03 PM
Do you automatically choose casters in dungeons and dragons? how would this be any different? there will still be a certain number of user per day, powers known, chance to resist, etc.

Well, you've got an aura-based effect that can be resisted for permanent time and psionic powers, I kinda think the choice is obvious, besides, it's probably gonna end up as one of the talent trees anyway that way.

In D&D it's different - I mostly take character's personality and backstory into account. Here you're a mindless killing machine hungry for brains. :smallwink:

stormywaters
2010-12-28, 04:13 PM
Well I can easily remove the line about being immune to the auras.

One is caster, the other is controller. You can blast enemies with powers or control them by drawing them out in the open away from safety, making them run and cower in terror, etc. I could add another talent that forces the humans you manipulate to attack each other, thinking they are just protecting an innocent child.

stormywaters
2010-12-28, 10:44 PM
Ok, trying to work out more of the talent trees. I need suggestions for the following:

2nd and 3rd talent trees for the Crawler
3rd talent tree for the zombrat (removing the caster version)
Suggestions for the "runner" zombie type

I am adding a ton of new stuff to the classes, so check back in 15-20 minutes when I get all the updates put in!

As for a caster, what about a vengeful zombie? Was killed by fire/water/electricity and can cast spells pertaining to the manner he died? This is the best I can think of for a "caster". What do you think?

Rob Roy
2010-12-28, 11:06 PM
I'm still reading what you have so far, so I wont be able to comment on the design that much yet, but I will be interested in any playtesting.

stormywaters
2010-12-28, 11:15 PM
Well, you'll want to reread it now! I just finished updating classes with tons of new information.

Have added and refined several talent trees so far.

Keep the suggestions coming guys!

Rob Roy
2010-12-28, 11:22 PM
Hmm, just three questions, and they may sound stupid. How do talent trees work? Do you pick one talent per level, so long as you have the prerequisite talent? Why is the imagination tree crossed out instead of deleted?

stormywaters
2010-12-28, 11:28 PM
Hmm, just three questions, and they may sound stupid. How do talent trees work? Do you pick one talent per level, so long as you have the prerequisite talent? Why is the imagination tree crossed out instead of deleted?

You will gain talents at odd numbered levels and feats at even numbered levels.

The imagination tree isn't deleted until I am positive it's coming out.

Rob Roy
2010-12-28, 11:50 PM
As for a caster, what about a vengeful zombie? Was killed by fire/water/electricity and can cast spells pertaining to the manner he died? This is the best I can think of for a "caster". What do you think?
You could have necromancer zombies, after all magic is one most common ways a zombie apocalypse starts, and zombies would like zombie followers to make hunting easier. They could heal other zombies and create new one under their control from corpses. The spells on how they died thing could work as a different caster class or fold that into the necromancer thing.

stormywaters
2010-12-28, 11:56 PM
That is an interesting idea. I will have to think more about it.

radmelon
2010-12-29, 12:35 AM
Here's my nitpicks in italic bold.


Hey everyone, I've been working on the mechanics of a game for awhile now, but I need your help!

The classes:
Bruiser - Military or policeman that was killed by the hordes. Came back to life, still wearing his body armor and knows how to use weapons. Big trouble for the people trying to shoot him!
Starting talents:
Armor – You gain a +1 class bonus to AC
Weapon Use (single) – Choose one simple weapon. You can now use that weapon, if you find one.

Talent Trees:

Armored Talent Tree: The zombie learns to make better use of the armor it died in.

• Extra Armor: The zombie gains +2 class bonus to AC

• Improved Extra Armor: The zombie gains an additional +2 class bonus to AC (total of +4)
- Requires Extra Armor

• Advanced Armor: The zombie gains an additional +2 class bonus to AC (total of +6)
- Requires Improved Extra Armor

• Bulletproof: You reduce all damage dealt to you by guns by 2 points per attack.
- Requires Improved Extra Armor

• Invulnerable: You gain the "Invulnerable" power:

- Requires Advanced Armor


------------------------------

Weapon Skill Talent Tree: The zombie recalls weapon usage learned in life.

• Weapon Skill – Simple: The zombie learns to use all simple weapons.

• Weapon Skill – Moderate: The zombie learns to use moderate weapons.
- Requires Weapon Skill – Simple

• Weapon Skill – Guns: The zombie learns to fire guns, but cannot reload or unjam them.
- Requires Weapon Skill - Moderate

• Advanced Weapon Skill – Simple: The zombie gains a +1 bonus to hit and a +1 bonus to damage with simple weapons.
- Requires Weapon Skill – Simple

• Advanced Weapon Skill – Moderate: The zombie gains a +1 bonus to hit and a +1 bonus to damage with moderate weapons.
- Requires Weapon Skill – Moderate

• Advanced Weapon Skill – Guns: The zombie can now reload and unjam guns, and gains a +1 bonus to hit with guns.
- Requires Weapon Skill - Guns

Zombrat - A child that was turned into a zombie. Not as strong or fast, but plays on human psychology: people have a tough time killing a child.
Mind Game Talent Tree: The zombie manipulates people, using its childish appearance as a weapon.

• Harmless Appearance: Enemies don’t see you as a threat, and ignore you most of the time. Each round, enemies must succeed on a Willpower test (DC 15 + ½ your level) or they cannot attack you that round. Once you attack a creature, that creature is immune to this effect for the remainder of the encounter. Do you mean will save?• Helpless Appearance: Using your child-like frailty, you lure your unwitting prey out of hiding and into your reach. You gain the “Help Me!” Power:

- Requires Harmless Appearance

• Frightening Appearance: Your creepy appearance scares people more than full-sized zombies do! Each enemy within 5 squares of you that can also hear and see you must make a Willpower test at the start of each turn. If they fail the test, they must immediately move out of the range of this power. If they cannot move out of range of this power, they move as far as possible and then cower. You may suppress or resume this power as a minor action. Again, what do you mean by willpower test?- Requires Helpless Appearance

• Improved Harmless Appearance: Increase the DC of Harmless Appearance to 15 + your level.
- Requires Harmless Appearance

• Improved Helpless Appearance: Enemies do not make a Willpower test the first round you use this power against them.
- Requires Helpless Appearance

• Improved Frightening Appearance: Increase the range of Frightening Appearance to 10 squares. Most abilities have ranges expressed in feet. Using the normal scale, this ability expands the range to 50 ft.- Requires Frightening Appearance


------------------------------

Low-Strike Talent Tree: Being so low to the ground makes it tough to reach the sweet spots, so you gotta bring 'em down to your level!

• Hamstring: Whenever you attack a creature’s legs, that creature is slowed until they receive medical assistance.

• Unexpected Strike: When you’re behind a creature and attack its legs, you deal an additional 1d6 damage for every two levels of Zombrat you have.

• Tendon Snap: Each time you would deal extra damage with Unexpected Strike, you may skip the extra damage to attempt to snap your enemy’s tendons. The enemy must make a Resilience test (DC = 15 + ½ your level); if they fail, they fall prone and cannot stand (until they receive medical assistance).
- Requires Unexpected Strike


------------------------------

Imagination Talent Tree: Your childish imagination becomes reality due to some strange aspect of your plague.

• Imagination Rank 1: You gain the ability to manifest powers. Your manifester level is equal to your Zombrat levels (see Powers, chapter 5), to a maximum at level 3.

• Imagination Rank 2: Your powers grow. Increase your maximum manifester level to 6; it is still no higher than your levels in Zombrat, but the maximum is now higher.
- Requires Imagination Rank 1

• Imagination Rank 3: Your powers grow. Increase your maximum manifester level to 10; it is still no higher than your levels in Zombrat, but the maximum is now higher.
- Requires Imagination Rank 2

• Improved Imagination: Increase the DCs of all powers you manifest by 1.
- Special: You may take this talent multiple times.
- Requires Imagination Rank 1

• Enhanced Imagination: You learn 2 new powers, each of which must be one level lower than the highest power you can manifest.
- Special: You may take this talent multiple times.
- Requires Imagination Rank 2

• Advanced Imagination: Increase damage dice of your powers by one step (for example: your powers that deal some number of d6 damage now deal that same number of d8 damage).
- Requires Imagination Rank 3, Improved Imagination



The Crawler - Zombie without legs. Slow, to be sure, but also strong (dragging your body makes you tough). Has a subtle advantage, in that people don't often see you coming if you aren't out in the open. You can pop out from under a table or inside a cabinet!
Starting Talents:
Legless – Your speed is equal to your Strength modifier. You gain a climb speed equal to half your speed. I assume that by "equal to strength mod" you mean 5 ft. per point of strenght modifier? what happens if your str is 10?
Hidden Threat – While a non-crawler zombie is within 10 squares of an enemy, that enemy does not react to you until you attack it. (It’s not that they can’t see you, but they are more concerned with bigger threats!)

Talent Trees:
Piggyback Talent Tree: You can overpower your enemies and use their bodies to your advantage.

• Piggyback: You gain the “Piggyback” power:
Piggyback - No Recharge
Standard Action - Opposed Strength Test How does this work?Requirements: You must be behind your target, and on top of a piece of furniture (or another object) at least waist height to your target.
Targets: One adjacent enemy

Effect: If you succeed on the opposed Strength check, you climb on your opponent’s back, and are now considered “piggybacked”. While piggybacked, you use your target’s movement modes and movement speed. Additionally, you cannot attack any other creatures, you may only attack once per round, and you may only use your bite attack. Creatures that attack you take a -2 on attack rolls (unless they are directly behind you).

Special: Your target may make an opposed Strength check against you to remove you, as a full round action. Otherwise this effect lasts until you choose to end it, or until the target dies.

• Improved Piggyback: While you are piggybacked, you can force your target to attack. On your turn, you can skip your normal attack to make your full number of attacks (as though you weren’t piggybacked) against an adjacent creature. Use your own Strength and attack bonus, but your enemy’s weapon damage.
- Requires Piggyback

• Advanced Piggyback: You tap directly into your opponent’s spinal cord when you use Piggyback. Your target cannot make opposed Strength tests to remove you, and you can take your normal allotment of moves, using your target’s movement modes, speed, and weapon damage. When you choose to no longer be piggybacked, your target returns to normal.
- Requires Improved Piggyback

• Practiced Piggyback: You gain a +2 talent bonus to Strength checks against piggyback targets.
- Requires Piggyback

• Piggyback Defense: You gain the “Piggyback Defense” power:

- Requires Piggyback
Note: It will be explained in the book what recharge means. Recharge 6 means you roll a d6 at the start of your turn; a 6 means the power is ready to use again


Putrefactor - You are a host of infection and disease, which sickens and damages nearby humans.
Starting Talents:
Diseased Blood – Enemies that bite you take 1d6 poison damage. In addition, when you become bloodied each enemy adjacent to you takes 1d6 poison damage. What is poison damage? Poison doesn't work like this normally.
Diseased Saliva – You can spit at enemies adjacent to you. Treat this as a ranged attack that does not provoke opportunity attacks and deals 1d4 poison damage. In addition, your bite attacks deal an additional 1d4 poison damage.

Disease Cloud Talent Tree: Your diseases seep out of you, spreading to nearby foes.

• Disease Cloud: At the start of your turn, each enemy adjacent to you must make a Resilience test (DC = 12 + ½ your Putrefactor class level); if they fail, they spend their next turn nauseated. What is a resilience test? Is it like a fortitude save?

• Extended Disease Cloud: Increase the range of your disease cloud by 1 square.
- Special: You may take this talent multiple times
- Requires Disease Cloud

• Virulent Disease Cloud: Increase the DC of your Disease Cloud by 2.
- Special: You may take this talent multiple times
- Requires Disease Cloud

• Pestilent Disease Cloud: Each enemy that fails its Resilience test against your Disease Cloud takes 1d6 poison damage.
- Requires Virulent Disease Cloud

• Plague Master: Increase the poison damage you deal (from all sources) by 1d6 per three Putrefactor class levels.
- Requires Pestilent Disease Cloud


------------------------------

Consumptive Infection Talent Tree: A mere bite can kill.

• Consumptive Infection: When you make a successful bite attack against a creature, that creature becomes infected by your Consumptive Infection.
Creatures infected with your Consumptive Infection must pass a Resilience test (DC = 10 + ½ your Putrefactor class level) at the start of its turn or take 1d6 poison damage. The first time a creature succeeds on a Resilience test, the infection is removed. Note: A creature can’t be subjected to more than one of your infections at a time.

• Virulent Infection: Increase the DC of your Consumptive Infection by 2.
- Special: You may take this talent multiple times
- Requires Consumptive Infection

• Caustic Infection: Increase the damage of your Consumptive Infection by one die step.
- Special: You may take this talent multiple times
- Requires Consumptive Infection

• Nauseating Infection: Creatures infected with your Consumptive Infection are nauseated in addition to any other effects.
- Requires Consumptive Infection

• Weakening Infection: Whenever a creature fails the Resilience test to resist your Consumptive Infection, it takes a cumulative -1 penalty to further tests to resist the infection. This penalty lasts until the creature succeeds on a Resilience test to resist your Consumptive Infection.
- Requires Consumptive Infection, level 5

• Accelerated Infection: Whenever a creature fails the Resilience test to resist your Consumptive Infection, it takes 1d6 additional poison damage for each consecutive time it has failed this test (the first time it fails the test it takes an extra 1d6 damage, the second time fails the test it takes an extra 2d6 damage, and so on).
- Requires Consumptive Infection, level 7


------------------------------

Spitting Plague Talent Tree: A mere bite can kill.

• Spitting Plague: Increase the range you can spit your Diseased Saliva to 5 squares and increase the damage to 1d6 poison damage (this increased damage affects your bite attacks also).

• Enhanced Poison: Increase the range you can spit your Diseased Saliva by 5 squares, and increase the damage by one die step.
- Special: You can take this talent two times
- Requires Spitting Plague

• Lingering Plague: When you spit your Diseased Saliva, the target’s square is filled with a cloud of poison until the end of your next turn. Each living creature that starts or ends its turn in the square takes 1d6 poison damage.
- Requires Spitting Plague

• Spreading Plague: When you spit your Diseased Saliva, the target’s square and each square adjacent to it is filled with a cloud of poison until the end of your next turn. Each living creature that starts or ends its turn in the square takes 1d6 poison damage.
- Requires Lingering Plague

• Split Shot: You can spit your Diseased Saliva at two creatures with each attack, as long as those creatures are within three squares of each other.
- Requires Spitting Plague

• Endless Plague: The cloud of poison created by your Lingering Plague or Spreading Plague lasts until the end of the encounter.
- Requires Spitting Plague, either Lingering Plague or Spreading Plague, level 7.



Preserved - You appear mostly human still, and can easily blend in with other humans.
Starting Talents:
Blend In – Most humans don’t realize you are undead until you make it obvious. You can’t use items or speak (unless you have talents that allow you to), but you can walk around in public and not draw attention immediately. This ability is most-useful blending in with crowds or anonymous groups of people.
Limited Motor Skills – You can manipulate simple objects, such as doorknobs, levers, or pick up items, though you cannot necessarily use items you pick up. You can’t throw items or use tools (unless a talent allows you to).

Item Use Talent Tree – You begin to recall how to use items

• Tool Use: You gain the ability to utilize simple (and unpowered) hand tools and other small objects. This list includes (but isn’t limited to) hammers, crowbars, screwdrivers, wrenches, etc. You can even spend money! Use your imagination! Note: This does not confer the ability to wield weapons.

• Weapon Use: You can now use simple weapons.
- Requires Tool Use

• Fine Tool Use: You can now use tools that can require fine manipulation. This includes (but is not limited to) needle and thread, pen and paper, typewriters, anything that requires using individual fingers to use properly. Note: You can use various communication media, but unless you know another language (such as Human), you cannot write anything that non-zombies would understand.
- Requires Tool Use

• Machine Use: You can now use common machinery, though not skillfully. You can use hand-held power tools, jackhammers, and even operate vehicles (among other things); any powered objects that only require a couple of different actions at a time to use (for instance, a car only requires the use of a steering wheel and two pedals at any one time). Note: While you know how to operate a vehicle, this simply means you know how to switch from park to drive (and vice versa), how to steer, and how to use the pedals. You do not know proper driving rules (speed limits, traffic lights, lanes, etc) but you can at least stay on the road. You just know how to operate the machinery. Probably best to drive when no other traffic is around!
- Requires Fine Tool Use

• Improved Machine Use: You know the basics of “acceptable” machine use. You can stay within the lanes, follow traffic signals, etc.
- Requires Machine Use


------------------------------

Language Talent Tree – You start to remember how to talk to others.

• Crude Language: You learn a crude version of the Human language. You can speak to humans in very short sentences (little more than “Yes”, “No”, “I’m Hungry”, etc). You might often say “Huh?” or “What?” unless people speak to you slowly and carefully. You can pass as human, but most people will think you have a mental deficiency. You will not fit in at most places, where the mentally handicapped would be out of place, so be careful not to draw attention to yourself! You can converse for a number of minutes equal to 3 + your Preserved class level before people start to catch on. You are better off getting in and out before people start asking questions!

• Improved Language: You can now talk in mostly complete sentences and convey complete thoughts, though deeper thoughts are beyond you. You lack the ability to “small talk” as well as a number of human devices (such as sarcasm, joking, or persuasion). You can only speak directly and convey the message you are attempting to convey in the simplest manner possible. You can remain undetected while conversing for a number of minutes equal to 5 + twice your Preserved class level.
- Requires Crude Language

• Perfect Language: You can now talk completely normally. People will never know you are a zombie simply by talking to you.
- Requires Improved Language

• Power of Persuasion: You can now persuade others to do things for you. When you’re talking to a human, you may ask them a favor. They make a Willpower check or perform the action for you, with a DC set by the favor you’re asking for:
DC Favor Example
20 Requires almost no effort “Can I use your pen?”
15 Requires some movement “Can you help me carry this to my car?”
10 Requires effort or money “Will you go downtown and pick up a drill for me?”
5 Obviously dangerous “Climb into that throttling wood-chipper”
+5 Seems completely harmless “Will you go get my car keys from the other room?”
-10 Seems potentially dangerous “Come with me into this dark alley.”
- Requires Perfect Language


The Rager - From some recent zombie movies, the super-angry crazy zombies.

The Runner - Running zombies! They aren't as strong or durable, but they close the distance while their brethren are still getting shot at.

The Shambler - Stereotypical zombies; slow-moving, groaning, etc. Not great in any one category, but decent across the board. They don't suffer the drawbacks of the other classes.

stormywaters
2010-12-29, 12:52 AM
Ok, on to your questions:

1. As I stated previously, there won't be saving throws. Willpower will be a stat (like strength). Resilience is identical to Constitution, just named differently.

2. You're right, Frightening Appearance is a little too large. I will probably replace the values with shorter ranges than that, probably 2 at start and increase to 5.

3. I am using squares instead of feet, but you are correct, Strength 14 (+2 mod) means 2 squares, or 10 feet. If you chose to take a 10 Strength, then you chose the wrong class to play as... a Crawler by definition should have a high Strength (and most of these classes will probably have stat mods to them as well (like +2 Str, -2 Dex for the Crawler), sort of a Race/Class combination if you will). It's needed for almost everything the Crawler does. You wouldn't play a Sorcerer in D&D with 10 Charisma, would you?

4. Opposed Tests will be covered in the rules. You roll 1d20 + Strength mod, and so does your opponent. If you get a higher roll, you win, otherwise you lose.

5. Poison damage: This is not D&D 3.5, nor d20 modern. Poison damage is a type of damage, like fire damage. It is simply a keyword that can be affected by other things, such as feats.

6. Resilience Test is like a Fortitude test, in a way. I explained above, it is basically Constitution. I can rename it Constitution, but I am trying to get people away from thinking that this is just a template you can slap over D&D. It is not meant to be that at all.

I think that covers all of your questions. Any more? I want to make everything as clear as possible! I will be working on a rules chapter tonight, so it should help clear up much of this stuff.

Rob Roy
2010-12-29, 12:56 AM
but I am trying to get people away from thinking that this is just a template you can slap over D&D. It is not meant to be that at all.
If it's not then you should have started with rules and done classes,the most important things go first.

stormywaters
2010-12-29, 01:57 AM
If it's not then you should have started with rules and done classes,the most important things go first.

To be fair, I didn't ever state that this was a template to be applied to D&D or any other system. I did say I was drawing from various sources, but you guys assumed it was part of another system. :smalltongue:

Anyway, I have added some rules stuff to the first post. I am typing up the rulebook right now to get the rules chapters out of the way, but I think I might need help arranging and wording everything properly so that it makes sense.

Volunteers? :smallsmile:

radmelon
2010-12-29, 02:15 AM
Nobody here but us chickens!

Seriously though, I will help to the best of my ability, but extended write ups are one of my biggest weaknesses.

Critical
2010-12-29, 07:27 AM
I'd like to help, but that sounds kinda hard, so it depends. :smalltongue:

Anyway, ideas for the runner zombie - make him a jumper zombie instead - kinda more stylish that way, IMO, and the functions are pretty similar. Lets see, if you go with this, the guy should receive some pretty epic bonuses to his jump checks and should have various talent trees for the jumping charges(checks for trip, grapple, pin on top of my head, maybe D&D-style pounce).

For the crawler talent trees - since he can hide easily, might as well give him the "low strike" talent tree you gave to the zombrat(though, the piggybacked victim should really be denied dex bonus to crawler's attack this way). Maybe a trip talent tree as an alternative way of attacking?

For the third zombrat talent tree - give them knife proficiency, and make that talent tree specializing in knife use. Psycho children zombies needs knives. :smallbiggrin:

Croverus
2010-12-29, 07:38 AM
I'd love to help playtest some of this, see if any of the classes play well.

AyeGill
2010-12-29, 10:08 AM
I like what i see so far. The way i see it, the players are probably special infected(borrowing some vocabularity from L4D), so there might be normal infected with no abilities around, too, just average ability scores, claw and bite attacks. maybe a zombie dedicated to controlling and affecting these? that could be your 'caster', a zombie that can buff/control the 'normal infected', making them stronger, faster, attracting them, maybe even giving some of them special abilities like the ones the players have.

It could be the Master Zombie
Talent trees could be:

Beacon of Infected Talent Tree.
Controlling and attracting the normal infected.
Talents:
Attractive Force
All normal infected within a hundred feet will walk towards the Master. If multiple Masters are Attracting the same normal infected, it walks towards the closest. The Master may toggle this effect at any time, including outside his turn.
Special: this talent might be taken multiple times. Each time, the area of thus effect it multiplied with ten.

Strong Attraction:
requires Attractive force
All normal infected within the area of the Master's attractive force will use a run action to move towards him on their turn. This effect can be toggle anytime, separately of Attractive force.

Control The Crowd
Requires attractive force
the Master may designate any spot within the area of his attractive force. the infected within his area will move towards that point instead of him. this point may be changed at any time.
Special: this talent may be taken multiple times. The Master may designate an additional point inside his attractive force's area for each additional time he takes it, and the infected will move towards the closest one.

Control the anger.
Requires attractive force, Control the Crown
The master might designate any target within his attractive force's area, and all zombies in the area will attack that target. If he has taken control the crowd multiple times, he might designate additional targets up to his normal limit for points. The infected will attack the closest one.

Strengthen Your Brethren Talent Tree.
Buffing the normal infected
talents:

Increased Power
Upon choosing this talent, choose a stat(willpower, strength, etc). You may increase that stat by two points for any normal infected you can see.
Special: You may choose this talent multiple times. For each time you choose it, you add two to the bonus you give the normal infected.

Increased Speed
You may increase the speed of any normal infected you can see by 5 feet.
Special: you may take this talent multiple times. For each time you take it, the speed bonus you give is increased by five feet.

Special Powers
Requires Increased Power
Upon choosing this talent, choose one talent with no requirements of any other special infected class. you may grant the talent to one normal infected at a time, by touch. doing so is a move action, and you may remove the talent with a free action. when the talent is removed or the normal infected has died, you may grant the power to a new one.
This talent may be taken multiple times. each time you take it, your maximum number of powered up infected doubles. you may also take this talent again, choosing a new grant-able talent. This new talent is tracked separately.

Strength in numbers
Requires Increased Power, Special Power
For each normal infected affected by your increased power, they all gain a +1 to attack rolls

Legion of the Damned
Requires Strength in numbers
You may apply any effects from the Strengthen your Brethren Tree to any zombies affected by your Attractive Force, without being able to see or touch them. The normal limitations of number still applies, though


So basically, in the beginning he goes pied piper of hamelin on the normal infected, pulling a ground into human-infested areas and letting them loose. Later, he can be attracting zombies from the area while sending them all in, and of course be granting them all sorts of cool abilities thanks to special power and legion of the damned.

I'd LOVE to playtest

Doggie_arf
2010-12-29, 11:37 AM
Whoa, didn't notice the 2nd page.

I'd agree that the Runner archetype strikes me as a leap-pounce, Hunter-style zombie. Another possible talent tree would be one that provides bonuses to climbing and balancing, including climb speeds, being able to run along walls and narrow surfaces, and being able to attack and defend freely while running along said walls (plus the ability to flank at odd angles). Ninja zombie traceurs bouncing off the walls, anyone?

Will think of more stuff tomorrow.

ADDENDUM:

Ah, yes. Runners need a skirmish talent tree (increased land speed included!), Bruisers need a talent tree for enhancing bull rushes/overrunning/sundering (something like the D20 Modern Strong Hero's Extra Effort talent tree, only more specialized), and Ragers need a talent tree that offers boosted damage and regeneration while wounded in combat.

Going to sleep nao. Trying to ignore the cat scrabbling at my window........

radmelon
2010-12-29, 01:45 PM
We really should get the skills and abilities done before anything else.
So, ~5 ability scores, and ~10 skills.

NosferatuZodd
2010-12-29, 01:48 PM
You know this entire idea was done amazingly with All Flesh Must Be Eaten.

Just saying, it already exists. Zombie or Human PCs.

stormywaters
2010-12-29, 03:42 PM
Well everything has been done already. I wouldn't say AFMBE did it well. I didn't like it, hence this game. It seems like plenty of other people are interested as well. Just sayin'.

I will change the runner to hunter or jumper. I like the idea of a zombie master so I will look more into it.

As to skills and abilities, did you check the original post? it's been updated with more info, including ability scores. I didn't provide a skill list yet, but I did provide how trained and untrained will work.

AyeGill
2010-12-29, 03:45 PM
well, my talent trees were just suggestions to give you the idea, and something to work with. you could add all sorts of things to it, maybe more finely control the zombies to do specific tasks or something.

stormywaters
2010-12-29, 03:56 PM
Yeah it's a great idea! I was thinking about the necromancer that was proposed but I couldn't reconcile some problems I was having, but this is a good alternative.

@Doggie I mentioned before that I will probably be combining the rager into a talent tree for the bruiser

Rob Roy
2010-12-29, 04:19 PM
Yeah it's a great idea! I was thinking about the necromancer that was proposed but I couldn't reconcile some problems I was having, but this is a good alternative.

@Doggie I mentioned before that I will probably be combining the rager into a talent tree for the bruiser
What problems?

stormywaters
2010-12-29, 04:28 PM
Zombies eat brains. A necromancer raises dead. So when you kill a human, you eat the brains and it can't come back anymore. So it means you'd have to find already dead, like a cemetery or something. It could be done, but it requires a greater RP element than all the other classes.

Rob Roy
2010-12-29, 04:38 PM
Zombies eat brains. A necromancer raises dead. So when you kill a human, you eat the brains and it can't come back anymore. So it means you'd have to find already dead, like a cemetery or something. It could be done, but it requires a greater RP element than all the other classes.
Mindless zombies. Eat the brain and raise a mindless zombie from the body, not having a brain works for skeletons. Unlike a virus zombie(which I'm assuming the other zombies in the game are) an animated doesn't really need any of their organs.
EDIT
I have a question on feats. The talent trees are class specific, but the feats(which haven't been posted, but you've mentioned them) can be taken by any class correct? What is the penalty for taking skills that aren't class skills? Same as D&D( each skill takes double the amount of normal to get one point)?

stormywaters
2010-12-29, 04:57 PM
Well as I stated in the original post, there aren't skill points in my system. You either are trained or you aren't. Each class will choose a number of skills from their class list at creation. I will have a Skill Training feat that will allow you to train in any skill, even if it's not on your class list.

Feats will be like most games: most will be available to everyone, though some will be specific to a class or classes. If you meet prerequisites, you can take any feat.

I will have to think more about the necromancer. I might make that the zombie master class, and have one tree creating zombies, another controlling zombies, and the third will buff the zombies.

Doggie_arf
2010-12-29, 07:07 PM
Well, I guess subsuming the Rager as a subset of the Bruiser works.

Oddly enough, there seems to be some form of relationship amongst the different archetypes, something as follows:

Bruiser > Runner > Preserved > Zombrat > Crawler > Putrefactor > Bruiser

OR (Opposite direction)

Bruiser > Putrefactor > Crawler > Zombrat > Preserved > Runner > Bruiser

This could form something like a ring of archetypes. A zombie of a particular archetype can easily "multiclass" to take abilities in the adjacent two archetypes, but the others would not (normally) be available. For instance, a Runner could take Preserved or Bruiser abilities, but not those of other classes.

Not sure how to represent the Shambler. Perhaps he's in the center of the circle, a jack of all trades.

stormywaters
2010-12-29, 07:23 PM
That is actually a very good observation and I will probably use that as a basis for multiclass rules. Where does the caster fit in there?

As to skills, I want the list to be short and sweet. I like what D&D 4e did grouping similar skills together, so I will also have the two skills Athletics and Acrobatics. I will probably have Intimidate, possibly renamed Fear or something.

Most knowledge skills and other social skills won't apply, though I might use Humanity or something to signify how well one blends in as a normal human. Of course the Preserved will have a huge bonus and the Crawler will have a huge penalty, if it's even allowed to make that check. What do you think?

Dragon Elite
2010-12-29, 07:27 PM
I approve, and would be willing to proofread rules and DM a playtest game (PbP here, if possible).

Rob Roy
2010-12-29, 07:34 PM
Not sure how to represent the Shambler. Perhaps he's in the center of the circle, a jack of all trades.[/SPOILER]
Going off of this idea, maybe the Shambler can't actually multiclass but can get talents from each talent tree, maxing out at two or some other lowish number?

stormywaters
2010-12-29, 07:41 PM
Going off of this idea, maybe the Shambler can't actually multiclass but can get talents from each talent tree, maxing out at two or some other lowish number?

Great idea! I think I will probably limit it to two talents in a chain, but only one chain per class you draw from. So if you take the Weapon Skill tree from the Bruiser class, you can't take talents from another tree in that class.

Rob Roy
2010-12-29, 07:43 PM
Great idea! I think I will probably limit it to two talents in a chain, but only one chain per class you draw from. So if you take the Weapon Skill tree from the Bruiser class, you can't take talents from another tree in that class.
Not what I meant, but okay!:smallsmile:

stormywaters
2010-12-29, 07:47 PM
Not what I meant, but okay!:smallsmile:

Oops! What did you mean?

Rob Roy
2010-12-29, 07:50 PM
Oops! What did you mean?
The Shambler, keeping with the knower of all, master of none thing that jacks of all trades have, could pick a talent from any talent tree( so long as it meets the prerequisites) but could only get a certain number of talents from that tree before it was barred from taking a talent from that tree.

stormywaters
2010-12-29, 07:56 PM
You mean from any class right? Instead of multiclassing?

I was saying that, but restricting it a little more, so you are barred from that tree after two talents, but also from that class for any further trees, though I don't know if that is necessary.

Rob Roy
2010-12-29, 08:00 PM
You mean from any class right? Instead of multiclassing?
Yes to both.

I was saying that, but restricting it a little more, so you are barred from that tree after two talents, but also from that class for any further trees, though I don't know if that is necessary.
I don't think it's unbalanced without this restriction, but you can only tell through playtesting. I personally wouldn't put it on the class, but it's your game, you can do what you want with it.

stormywaters
2010-12-29, 08:04 PM
I think you're right, so scratch that last restriction. Great idea!

stormywaters
2010-12-30, 03:19 AM
Ok, I am adding a 5th ability score, that will be determined by your class, instead of rolled for or chosen normally. Humanity doesn't make sense as a skill, so it will be a base ability.

Unlike other scores, it will range from 0-20, with 0 being not even close to human, and 20 being completely human under even the most scientific scrutiny.

Having a negative modifier (for instance with a score of 8) will grant a bonus to skills like Intimidate, but a penalty to most other interaction skills.

Doggie_arf
2010-12-30, 10:29 AM
Hm. As each class has their own default starting talents, can one safely assume that a multiclassing zombie (or a Shambler) will not be able to access said starting talents?

If you're following the 10-level class system for D20 Modern (alternating abilities and feats at each level), your zombie may end up being somewhat ability starved, as 5 abilties at level 9-10 would only allow them to max out, say, 1 talent tree for their class. "Feats" that allow the zombie to learn an extra ability could help in this regard - for the Shambler, this feat could potentially allow them to learn a third ability in one particular tree. (This would work somewhat like the (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/MSRD:Feats#Strong_Plus) Plus (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/MSRD:Feats#Fast_Plus) feats (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/MSRD:Feats#Tough_Plus) in (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/MSRD:Feats#Smart_Plus) Modern (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/MSRD:Feats#Dedicated_plus)/Future (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/MSRD:Feats#Charismatic_Plus)). If the "feat" system is not in use, the above point is moot.

Casting would seem like a more advanced talent that (like, perhaps, the necromancy and zombie "master" talents) would only be available as a prestige option. It could be possible to access a limited form of said casting at an earlier level through specific feats (or common talents available to everyone) similar to the Modern Wild Talent (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/MSRD:Feats#Wild_Talent) feat - access to actual casting talent could require said feats/abilities as a prerequisite. I was actually considering whether a pseudo-caster feat-chain/talent tree would be possible (using progression similar to the Aberrant Dragonmark feats from Eberron), but that seems a bit too much like your original Imagination talent tree.

I'd try to flesh out a few of the talent trees from previous posts, but I'm too tired now........*yawn*

Rob Roy
2010-12-30, 01:57 PM
I'd try to flesh out a few of the talent trees from previous posts, but I'm too tired now........*yawn*
I don't know about the other trees but I could help the zombie master tree, and have it not feel like imagination. The zombie master wouldn't really need spells, just two tree granting power like very other tree. I'll edit in an example of a zombie master tree soon. I don't care whether it's used, but stormywaters could use it as a starting point if he wants. Here's what I was thinking.


Corpse Master Talent Tree

Raise Corpse: The zombie can raise the corpse of a brainless human as a mindless zombie. The zombie has a Strength and Resilience score of 10, a humanity score of two, and eight in all other stats. You can only have one active at a time. The raised zombie posses no talents.
Improved Corpse: Any Corpse raised by this Zombie gets a +1 bonus to AC.
-Requires Raise Corpse
Improved Raise Corpse: You can have two zombies raised at the same time.
-Requires Raise Corpse, and Improved Corpse
Toughen Corpse: Any Corpse raised by this zombie has a score of 12 in both Strength and Resilience. This does not apply to zombies raised before you acquired this talent.
-Requires Raise Corpse, and Improved Corpse
Toughen Corpse II: Any Corpse raised by this zombie has a score of 14 in both Strength and Resilience. This does not apply to zombies raised before you acquired this talent.
-Requires Raise Corpse, Improved Corpse, and Toughen Corpse

It seems horribly unbalanced, but all it was intended to was create a starting point so as to make a casting tree that doesn't seem like imagination. If it was to actually be edited into a class, there would be many changes I would make.

stormywaters
2010-12-30, 05:03 PM
I don't know about the other trees but I could help the zombie master tree, and have it not feel like imagination. The zombie master wouldn't really need spells, just two tree granting power like very other tree. I'll edit in an example of a zombie master tree soon. I don't care whether it's used, but stormywaters could use it as a starting point if he wants. Here's what I was thinking.


Corpse Master Talent Tree

Raise Corpse: The zombie can raise the corpse of a brainless human as a mindless zombie. The zombie has a Strength and Resilience score of 10, a humanity score of two, and eight in all other stats. You can only have one active at a time. The raised zombie posses no talents.
Improved Corpse: Any Corpse raised by this Zombie gets a +1 bonus to AC.
-Requires Raise Corpse
Improved Raise Corpse: You can have two zombies raised at the same time.
-Requires Raise Corpse, and Improved Corpse
Toughen Corpse: Any Corpse raised by this zombie has a score of 12 in both Strength and Resilience. This does not apply to zombies raised before you acquired this talent.
-Requires Raise Corpse, and Improved Corpse
Toughen Corpse II: Any Corpse raised by this zombie has a score of 14 in both Strength and Resilience. This does not apply to zombies raised before you acquired this talent.
-Requires Raise Corpse, Improved Corpse, and Toughen Corpse

It seems horribly unbalanced, but all it was intended to was create a starting point so as to make a casting tree that doesn't seem like imagination. If it was to actually be edited into a class, there would be many changes I would make.

I don't think it's really unbalanced, since it only raises an undead that has low stats. It also doesn't seem to mention that you control the undead, so I will edit that in when I add it to the rules.

I was thinking, however, that one tree would be raising dead, another tree would pertain to buffing the undead, and maybe the third tree would be sacrificing the undead for various effects (Corpse Explosion would explode the undead to deal damage to an area, or sacrifice them to heal other undead, etc).


Hm. As each class has their own default starting talents, can one safely assume that a multiclassing zombie (or a Shambler) will not be able to access said starting talents?

If you're following the 10-level class system for D20 Modern (alternating abilities and feats at each level), your zombie may end up being somewhat ability starved, as 5 abilties at level 9-10 would only allow them to max out, say, 1 talent tree for their class. "Feats" that allow the zombie to learn an extra ability could help in this regard - for the Shambler, this feat could potentially allow them to learn a third ability in one particular tree. (This would work somewhat like the Plus feats in Modern/Future). If the "feat" system is not in use, the above point is moot.

Casting would seem like a more advanced talent that (like, perhaps, the necromancy and zombie "master" talents) would only be available as a prestige option. It could be possible to access a limited form of said casting at an earlier level through specific feats (or common talents available to everyone) similar to the Modern Wild Talent feat - access to actual casting talent could require said feats/abilities as a prerequisite. I was actually considering whether a pseudo-caster feat-chain/talent tree would be possible (using progression similar to the Aberrant Dragonmark feats from Eberron), but that seems a bit too much like your original Imagination talent tree.

The Shambler would not have the starting talents of other trees, but I could add that as a talent for one of the Shambler trees. I haven't begun to plan that option yet, and I think the shambler will be the last one a figure out.


If you're following the 10-level class system for D20 Modern (alternating abilities and feats at each level), your zombie may end up being somewhat ability starved

How would this differ from d20 in terms of talents available? In d20, you would only have a few abilities by 10th level, as well, right? This simply gives you more options to go with, even within one talent tree. So you don't simply choose one tree and take every talent in the chain as you would in d20.

I don't honestly know how to handle casting at this point. I will work on the Zombie Master / Necromancer class and see how it turns out.

Rob Roy
2010-12-30, 05:06 PM
I don't think it's really unbalanced, since it only raises an undead that has low stats. It also doesn't seem to mention that you control the undead, so I will edit that in when I add it to the rules.

If you edit it into the class, I'd make Raise Corpse a starting talent and create a few more talents in that tree.


I don't honestly know how to handle casting at this point. I will work on the Zombie Master / Necromancer class and see how it turns out.I can help making the Necromancer if you want, since you keep saying you don't have any ideas for casters and I'm a big fan of magic. I've got a few ways to handle it rolling around in my head right now.
EDIT
Have you given thought a mechanic that will allow the zombie classes to make humans into zombies? (I'm assuming that humans will the main enemies in this game, followed by other zombies).

stormywaters
2010-12-30, 05:16 PM
Well I only meant I would add a couple lines to the existing Raise Dead that said you could give the zombies you created some basic commands. I wasn't going to make it a separate talent.

If you want to take over the zombie master go ahead. Do me one favor though: don't post it in spoiler tags. I am updating from my phone during the day so I can't see in the spoiler tags until tonight.

Rob Roy
2010-12-30, 05:32 PM
Well I only meant I would add a couple lines to the existing Raise Dead that said you could give the zombies you created some basic commands. I wasn't going to make it a separate talent.

If you want to take over the zombie master go ahead. Do me one favor though: don't post it in spoiler tags. I am updating from my phone during the day so I can't see in the spoiler tags until tonight.

I was just going to PM the Zombie Master and another idea I had for a caster that played off of the Imagination ability, by basing a class off of it rather than it being a just a part of another class. As in, the other caster would have a "spell" list. Granted said class would have drawbacks that would apply to all levels to prevent it from blowing all the other classes out of the water. Do you mind it if I load the classes with fluff instead of just crunch?

stormywaters
2010-12-30, 05:47 PM
I have fluff written already, but feel free to write a bunch more. One can never have too much fluff.

Rob Roy
2010-12-30, 05:56 PM
I have fluff written already, but feel free to write a bunch more. One can never have too much fluff.
Woo Hoo! Mind if I stick some minor world building into that fluff? The Zombie Master is almost done, by the way.

stormywaters
2010-12-30, 06:09 PM
HP will be handled like 4e. I don't like the random nature of hit dice, so each class will have a set HP to start with, plus their Resilience SCORE, and will gain set HP per level. Of course some classes get higher HP than others, as normal.

Rob Roy
2010-12-30, 09:34 PM
The Zombie Master has be PMed to you Stormywaters. Let me know if you want me to help you stat out any other classes/opponents. The class itself isn't very fluff filled yet, but there's enough crunch. I'm not sure if the third talent tree is horribly unbalanced or not. I suppose it depends on the spells, which I'll start working on tomorrow.

stormywaters
2010-12-30, 10:25 PM
I will try to get it touched up and posted tonight. it's my birthday so I make no promises but I'll try.

I have also been looking at the Crawler as well, and I have an idea for one of the trees. Updates maybe tonight.

Rob Roy
2010-12-30, 11:14 PM
I will try to get it touched up and posted tonight. it's my birthday so I make no promises but I'll try.

I have also been looking at the Crawler as well, and I have an idea for one of the trees. Updates maybe tonight.
Happy birthday! You don't have to make an update then, but it would be nice.
EDIT
Mind if I work on the Runner or Shambler? I could also make a tree for the preserved.

stormywaters
2010-12-31, 02:52 AM
Ok guys, I made some updates. Added a partial tree for the Bruiser (Rager tree), and a partial tree for the Crawler. They are both in progress, but it's my birthday so I've been busy.

I also added the Ringleader class, and one tree for it. Rob, I tweaked what you gave me and it's posted. The healing ability was not nearly good enough to be a daily power, even a "times per day" power. I made it better, made it usable at will, and added a special to the end that makes it "wear out" your zombie minions. This minor limitation gives it some better flavor, and makes your zombie minions have a life span, so they don't live forever. You'll have to keep making them, though they should still last a long while. If you're curious, the BLOODIED VALUE referred to is simply half your hit points.

I didn't add the healing tree yet, because it needs work. I like what you did with it, but it is underpowered, except the end power which is overpowered. I will work with it some more tonight and get it posted.

Haven't looked at the caster tree yet. More updates to come, stick with it.

What skills do you think belong, everyone? And how about some ideas for talents?

Thanks again everyone!!

Edit: You can work on the last tree for the Preserved. I want to get a feel for the other two before I delegate anything more. I will try to have some partial trees (or complete, if I have a flash of inspiration) by tomorrow night.

Rob Roy
2010-12-31, 03:00 AM
I didn't add the healing tree yet, because it needs work. I like what you did with it, but it is underpowered, except the end power which is overpowered. I will work with it some more tonight and get it posted.


Edit: You can work on the last tree for the Preserved. I want to get a feel for the other two before I delegate anything more. I will try to have some partial trees (or complete, if I have a flash of inspiration) by tomorrow night.

I'll work on fixing the healing tree, and once I'm done with the spell list I'll send that to you. I insist you keep the talent names on the last two trees though. They define the class as a class of sociopathic necromancer sadists. I'm kind of disappointed that you removed what little fluff there was, but when your done with rules I guess I can post a setting with the Zombie Master fluffed out, so change whatever you want fluff wise, it's your RPG. Why did you get rid of the Corpse Control talents, were they to overpowered? How many feet are in one square?

stormywaters
2010-12-31, 03:13 AM
I'll work on fixing the healing tree, and once I'm done with the spell list I'll send that to you. I insist you keep the talent names on the last two trees though. They define the class as a class of sociopathic necromancer sadists. I'm kind of disappointed that you removed what little fluff their is, but when your done with rules I guess I can post a setting with the Zombie Master fluffed out. Why did you get rid of the Corpse Control talents, where they to overpowered?

I haven't removed fluff, I just haven't posted it. :smalltongue: Fluff will all be in the rulebook, I am just posting the crunch so people can see how the game plays.

I will fix up the healer tree, it's no issue at all. It just needs some tuning.

As to the Control Corpse stuff, the first part is too situational (as you will be mostly fighting humans, not other NPCs). The odds of running up against another Zombie Master are very very slim.

The second control is too good, purely because it could be used against the other players. If you remove this restriction, you could use it to control mundane undead that are roaming around, but why bother? You might as well just create your own.

I'm not sure how the names of the Healing talents define the class as a group of sadists, but I can keep them. The only thing is, having names that link together to form phrases is neat, but ultimately gimmicky. What if you don't take both of the talents? You just end up with "Is a Good Defense", which sounds like the first half of a question.

I promise, there will be lots of fluff, and it will be fully stated that they are cabalists that chose to be necromancers, etc.

Rob Roy
2010-12-31, 03:17 AM
I haven't removed fluff, I just haven't posted it. :smalltongue: Fluff will all be in the rulebook, I am just posting the crunch so people can see how the game plays.

I will fix up the healer tree, it's no issue at all. It just needs some tuning.

As to the Control Corpse stuff, the first part is too situational (as you will be mostly fighting humans, not other NPCs). The odds of running up against another Zombie Master are very very slim.

The second control is too good, purely because it could be used against the other players. If you remove this restriction, you could use it to control mundane undead that are roaming around, but why bother? You might as well just create your own.

I'm not sure how the names of the Healing talents define the class as a group of sadists, but I can keep them. The only thing is, having names that link together to form phrases is neat, but ultimately gimmicky. What if you don't take both of the talents? You just end up with "Is a Good Defense", which sounds like the first half of a question.

I promise, there will be lots of fluff, and it will be fully stated that they are cabalists that chose to be necromancers, etc.
I'm fine with with the names, just a few of the names like "How would you like to die" just screams badass. I'll send that spell list to you sometime tomorrow, and I'll have some more fluff loaded into the spells. On the control thing, some GMs will probably run a ZvZ game and the other one was intended to be used against other players. I may have channeled a bit of the game Paranoia into that class. How's the caster branch look? Oh and it's the names in the caster branch that show the class to be insane and murderous. :smalltongue: Anyway I think two talents in the caster branch may be overpowered, which is why on one of them their is a once per day limit. On the healing, I kind of intended the overpowered ability at the end to be a reward for taking talents in a sucky branch. And the requirment were set up so if you wanted the overpowered ability at the end you had to take A Good Offense. Can't wait for playtesting. If GM has been taken I'll play one of these murderous freaks. The last preserved branch will most likely add a spy/ rogue flavor to the class, since they would be great as spies for the zombies. Can zombie in this game communicate with amongst each other?

stormywaters
2010-12-31, 03:55 AM
I'm fine with with the names, just a few of the names like "How would you like to die" just screams badass. I'll send that spell list to you sometime tomorrow, and I'll have some more fluff loaded into the spells. Speaking of which, I should probably start working on the spells. How's the caster branch?

It looks decent so far. I'll change the "gain mana points" talents to a static value, based on willpower. I don't like die rolls for anything that is so utterly vital to your character. Mana is crucial, so you should be able to count on getting a decent number of points.

I do like the idea of channeling your HP into mana, and I will think about it and decide how exactly I want it to work.

I don't like the last talent, however. I will think about what to do with that as well.

stormywaters
2010-12-31, 04:22 AM
I'm fine with with the names, just a few of the names like "How would you like to die" just screams badass. I'll send that spell list to you sometime tomorrow, and I'll have some more fluff loaded into the spells. On the control thing, some GMs will probably run a ZvZ game and the other one was intended to be used against other players. I may have channeled a bit of the game Paranoia into that class. How's the caster branch look? Oh and it's the names in the caster branch that show the class to be insane and murderous. :smalltongue: Anyway I think two talents in the caster branch may be overpowered, which is why on one of them their is a once per day limit. On the healing, I kind of intended the overpowered ability at the end to be a reward for taking talents in a sucky branch. And the requirment were set up so if you wanted the overpowered ability at the end you had to take A Good Offense. Can't wait for playtesting. If GM has been taken I'll play one of these murderous freaks. The last preserved branch will most likely add a spy/ rogue flavor to the class, since they would be great as spies for the zombies. Can zombie in this game communicate with amongst each other?

Ok, responded to the caster class. I don't want the healer branch to suck until the end; nobody will play it for such a long-term payoff. I will solidify it so it's good enough to play.

Yes, zombies can communicate in their own language of groans, moans, and body language. The two languages are Zombie and Human, and neither group knows the other group's language, with some exceptions of course.

Rob Roy
2010-12-31, 04:42 AM
It looks decent so far. I'll change the "gain mana points" talents to a static value, based on willpower. I don't like die rolls for anything that is so utterly vital to your character. Mana is crucial, so you should be able to count on getting a decent number of points.


Remember that the HP to mana (which is basically power points from 3.5) is permanent, with no way to switch them back. That's why I called it "Are You Sure This Is A Good Idea?". As for the Capstone talent, I couldn't think of anything else that wasn't an addition to the other (overpowered) half of the chain and I thought that mana was the heart of the chain. I disagree with non-random mana points, but it's your game, you can do what ever you want. Is this game going to emphases combat rules over non-combat rules? That was one of the things I didn't like about 4e.

stormywaters
2010-12-31, 04:51 AM
Remember that the HP to mana (which is basically power points from 3.5) is permanent, with no way to switch them back. That's why I called it "Are You Sure This Is A Good Idea?". As for the Capstone talent, I couldn't think of anything else that wasn't an addition to the other (overpowered) half of the chain and I thought that mana was the heart of the chain. I disagree with non-random mana points, but it's your game, you can do what ever you want. Is this game going to emphases combat rules over non-combat rules? That was one of the things I didn't like about 4e.

HP to Mana is good, I like it. Making it permanent is risky, but should be worth the payoff. What do you think about a split version? Something like... you can spend X HP to gain X mana, and at the end of combat, you lose that extra mana and regain those HP, or you can spend X HP permanently and gain double that much mana permanently (just as an example).

How does your random mana points work? When you take the talent, you roll 1d20 that one time, and it sets your points permanently? If that's the case, I don't like it for that reason; if you roll low, your character is completely screwed, for good. Even in D&D 3.5, Power Points for psionics (and Spell Points for magic) were set, not random.

What do you mean by "emphases combat rules over non-combat rules"?

stormywaters
2010-12-31, 04:55 AM
I noticed you don't have anything that directly affects your spells in your tree. We could have the capstone be something like... when an enemy rolls their willpower (or whatever ability) to resist a spell, you can force them to roll twice and take the lower roll.

Rob Roy
2010-12-31, 05:09 AM
HP to Mana is good, I like it. Making it permanent is risky, but should be worth the payoff. What do you think about a split version? Something like... you can spend X HP to gain X mana, and at the end of combat, you lose that extra mana and regain those HP, or you can spend X HP permanently and gain double that much mana permanently (just as an example).

How does your random mana points work? When you take the talent, you roll 1d20 that one time, and it sets your points permanently? If that's the case, I don't like it for that reason; if you roll low, your character is completely screwed, for good. Even in D&D 3.5, Power Points for psionics (and Spell Points for magic) were set, not random.

What do you mean by "emphases combat rules over non-combat rules"?
The first one makes it just a manner of connivence, which I didn't want the ability to be. I like the second one though. Lets say I have a willpower of 16 and roll a 1d20 and get a 5. Since your big issue is with getting screwed over by the dice, lets say you add your willpower doubled (as in 3+3 or -1+[-1] so your still screwed if you take this class with low willpower) your total mana would 11. I know that, I just wanted to create some more chance since you don't like hit dice. I'm fine with you making it more like psionics. Weird how the dice rollers don't work in this subforum, I tried using one just now too.


I noticed you don't have anything that directly affects your spells in your tree. We could have the capstone be something like... when an enemy rolls their willpower (or whatever ability) to resist a spell, you can force them to roll twice and take the lower roll.
Kill it, Kill It does affect your spells. I like the ability, but I would prefer instead if the capstone made them suffer a major penalty to opposed willpower checks when rolling to resist the effects of a spell. That is how spell saves would work, right?

stormywaters
2010-12-31, 05:21 AM
The first one makes it just a manner of connivence, which I didn't want the ability to be. I like the second one though. Lets say I have a willpower of 16 and roll a 1d20 and get a 5. Since your big issue is with getting screwed over by the dice, lets say you add your willpower doubled (as in 3+3 or -1+[-1] so your still screwed if you take this class with low willpower) your total mana would 11. I know that, I just wanted to create some more chance since you don't like hit dice. I'm fine with you making it more like psionics.

I don't know what you mean by the bolded part. What I proposed as Health to Mana was one ability. You can gain temporary mana by taking damage, or permanent mana for permanent health loss, BUT the permanent health loss gives you a better payoff.

I don't like randomness in character creation. There is no reason that your character should start out inferior because of crappy rolls. You might miss in combat, or when trying to climb, because of crappy rolls, but by NOT using randomness in character creation, you make everyone fairly even in power level. A fighter that rolls low HP is screwed already; even dumping several (wasted) feats in Toughness will only partially recover those HP, and be several feats down just trying to offset bad luck in creation. Same with casters that roll low for mana. It's a stupid aspect of character creation that never should have existed. Think of it this way: If you had never heard of rolling for HP, would you want to implement it now?


Kill it, Kill It does affect your spells. I like the ability, but I would prefer instead if the capstone made them suffer a major penalty to opposed willpower checks when rolling to resist the effects of a spell. That is how spell saves would work, right?

Well most spells will be an opposed test, or an attack roll. Making them roll twice and taking the lower is a penalty. It could also be a bonus to opposed checks (or they take a penalty to opposed checks) if you like that better.

And Kill It Kill It is WAY too good, unless nearly every spell damages the caster. I mean, +10 to damage is HUGE. I would prefer it was like... +2 or +3 to damage, and you can take it more than once. At level 10, a melee class can expect maybe 100 HP. So your spells will kill the hardiest creatures in 10 shots, without even counting the base damage of the spell. Add the base damage in, and you're looking at killing things in what, three turns? Four?

AyeGill
2010-12-31, 05:28 AM
what about rolling for mana at the start of every encounter, and have it refresh at every new encounter? You get, say, your willpower bonus in D6's every encounter. Its still pretty random, but nobody gets screwed over permanently. All the talents that increase mana could give you bonus d6's when rolling for mana.

Rob Roy
2010-12-31, 05:29 AM
I don't know what you mean by the bolded part. What I proposed as Health to Mana was one ability. You can gain temporary mana by taking damage, or permanent mana for permanent health loss, BUT the permanent health loss gives you a better payoff.

I don't like randomness in character creation. There is no reason that your character should start out inferior because of crappy rolls. You might miss in combat, or when trying to climb, because of crappy rolls, but by NOT using randomness in character creation, you make everyone fairly even in power level. A fighter that rolls low HP is screwed already; even dumping several (wasted) feats in Toughness will only partially recover those HP, and be several feats down just trying to offset bad luck in creation. Same with casters that roll low for mana. It's a stupid aspect of character creation that never should have existed. Think of it this way: If you had never heard of rolling for HP, would you want to implement it now?
Your bolded part was a result of me misreading what you wrote, both ways work, so long as you have to heal the HP to get it back. My bolded part was to point out that pretty much every game I've been in has maximized HP for the first level or so, I'm fine with static generation. For mana, then just treat your the amount you get on the first talent as 10 plus your ability modifier for willpower then roll for your second talent that gives you mana as 1d20 plus double your willpower modifier.


Well most spells will be an opposed test, or an attack roll. Making them roll twice and taking the lower is a penalty. It could also be a bonus to opposed checks (or they take a penalty to opposed checks) if you like that better.

And Kill It Kill It is WAY too good, unless nearly every spell damages the caster. I mean, +10 to damage is HUGE. I would prefer it was like... +2 or +3 to damage, and you can take it more than once. At level 10, a melee class can expect maybe 100 HP. So your spells will kill the hardiest creatures in 10 shots, without even counting the base damage of the spell. Add the base damage in, and you're looking at killing things in what, three turns? Four?
Then weaken the ability. I kind of figured it and it's prerequisite would be overpowered, it's what I've been saying all along. Or put a 1/day limit on it like it's prerequisite.

Rob Roy
2010-12-31, 05:32 AM
what about rolling for mana at the start of every encounter, and have it refresh at every new encounter? You get, say, your willpower bonus in D6's every encounter. Its still pretty random, but nobody gets screwed over permanently. All the talents that increase mana could give you bonus d6's when rolling for mana.
That removes so much long term planning. I don't think thats a good idea at all. Just treat it like psionics in 3.5 I don't really care how it works, so long as it's not that suggestion. I'll go with random or not random, but not that.

stormywaters
2010-12-31, 05:37 AM
what about rolling for mana at the start of every encounter, and have it refresh at every new encounter? You get, say, your willpower bonus in D6's every encounter. Its still pretty random, but nobody gets screwed over permanently. All the talents that increase mana could give you bonus d6's when rolling for mana.

What is wrong with this plan, Rob? How does your method of just rolling a d20 one time make long term planning possible?

The point I'm getting at is that you are insisting that 1d20 must be rolled at some point as a permanent effect on your character. So you can burn a talent to roll a d20, and if that roll is bad, your character is permanently screwed.

Pro:
1. Potential for a lot of extra mana

Cons:
1. Costs a talent
2. Potential for very little mana
3. If the roll is low, your character is crippled at his one specific task that he is supposed to excel at

Rolling d6s means you would plan everything one encounter at a time. Hell, you could roll your dice each day to set your mana for the day and it would be acceptable, since you wouldn't be permanently screwed by one single bad roll. Never ever in a game should one miscellaneous roll dictate the remainder of your character's existence.

Rob Roy
2010-12-31, 05:45 AM
What is wrong with this plan, Rob? How does your method of just rolling a d20 one time make long term planning possible?

The point I'm getting at is that you are insisting that 1d20 must be rolled at some point as a permanent effect on your character. So you can burn a talent to roll a d20, and if that roll is bad, your character is permanently screwed.

Pro:
1. Potential for a lot of extra mana

Cons:
1. Costs a talent
2. Potential for very little mana
3. If the roll is low, your character is crippled at his one specific task that he is supposed to excel at

Rolling d6s means you would plan everything one encounter at a time. Hell, you could roll your dice each day to set your mana for the day and it would be acceptable, since you wouldn't be permanently screwed by one single bad roll. Never ever in a game should one miscellaneous roll dictate the remainder of your character's existence.
First off, reread the post, I don't care whether or not you need to roll a d20 or not in creation, so half your argument is falling on deaf ears. Secondly, long term planning means longer than one turn. If we go the psion route (which I think we should so we can get onto some other part of the game) we get a certain number of points in our mana pool, plus our willpower modifier, as you said a few posts back. This means you have to budget your spells instead of casting them all at once. For those reasons rolling for mana on a round by round basis is, in my opinion a bad idea. There's the possibility to get 0 or twenty in a turn and you'd be spending it all at once. Even if you roll low on the "roll a d20 system" you should be able to cast several powers good powers a day, and what you can cast wouldn't vary beyond "you've already spent the points for it earlier in the day".

stormywaters
2010-12-31, 05:47 AM
First off, reread the post, I don't care whether or not you need to roll a d20 or not in creation, so half your argument is falling on deaf ears. Secondly, long term planning means longer than one turn. If we go the psion route (which I think we should so we can get onto some other part of the game) we get a certain number of points in our mana pool, plus our willpower modifier, as you said a few posts back. This means you have to budget your spells instead of casting them all at once. For those reasons rolling for mana on a round by round basis is, in my opinion a bad idea.

I understand what you said, but you are advocating the d20 roll.

Now, reread the post you said you absolutely refuse. He said at the start of the encounter. So at the start of each battle you roll for mana, and that's what you get for that fight. Not each round, or turn. Each battle.

Rob Roy
2010-12-31, 05:52 AM
I understand what you said, but you are advocating the d20 roll.

Now, reread the post you said you absolutely refuse. He said at the start of the encounter. So at the start of each battle you roll for mana, and that's what you get for that fight. Not each round, or turn. Each battle.


That removes so much long term planning. I don't think thats a good idea at all. Just treat it like psionics in 3.5 I don't really care how it works, so long as it's not that suggestion. I'll go with random or not random, but not that.
Am I now, really? On the other thing, that's better, but still to short a time and still could give you way to much for a single encounter given that in a normal game you'll have multiple encounters per day. It eliminates day by day planning. Now stop this roll a d20 nonsense and 3d6 nonsense, and just go to what you wanted originally, it's your game.

AyeGill
2010-12-31, 05:52 AM
it could be per day, or week, or something else. Just periodically rerolling your mana means that there's some chance, so David can beat Goliath by rolling big on his mana pool for that day, but nobody gets screwed permanently by a single bad roll.

Rob Roy
2010-12-31, 05:54 AM
it could be per day, or week, or something else. Just periodically rerolling your mana means that there's some chance, so David can beat Goliath by rolling big on his mana pool for that day, but nobody gets screwed permanently by a single bad roll.
Or you can get say 10 + plus your willpower modifier for mana, have no need to roll for it and refresh it daily, Like how psionics is handled in 3.5.

stormywaters
2010-12-31, 05:59 AM
Ok, let's drop this petty bickering (of which I am also very guilty) and get back to having fun developing a potentially awesome game.

Here is how Mana will be handled:

Each player will start with a set amount of mana, which will increase with level. It will be directly based on your Willpower score, and it will be static.

There will be a talent that adds mana to your current score. I'm not completely opposed to random amounts, so long as they aren't devastating in the long run.

Rob, what type of roll per day system would you like to see? Rolling does mix it up from day to day, and can make a big difference. Everyone has "off" days, so why should casters be exempt, right?

So you can think up something that will be rolled once per day to add to your mana pool. It should benefit people with a high willpower, but it should provide a minimum of, say, 5 mana per day (since you are spending a talent on it anyway), no matter what.

Sound like a plan?

Rob Roy
2010-12-31, 06:02 AM
Rob, what type of roll per day system would you like to see? Rolling does mix it up from day to day, and can make a big difference. Everyone has "off" days, so why should casters be exempt, right?

So you can think up something that will be rolled once per day to add to your mana pool. It should benefit people with a high willpower, but it should provide a minimum of, say, 5 mana per day (since you are spending a talent on it anyway), no matter what.
I've been advocating the exact opposite of the roll per length of time system, but I'd have to say roll roll 1d6 and apply your will power modifier, if the roll results in a negative (it shouldn't, but you never know) then subtract that from your points for the day. If it rolls like it should, add it to your points for that day.

stormywaters
2010-12-31, 06:05 AM
I've been advocating the exact opposite of the roll per length of time system, but I'd have to say roll roll 1d6 and apply your will power modifier, if the roll results in a negative (it shouldn't, but you never know) then subtract that from your points for the day. If it rolls like it should, add it to your points for that day.

Even if the length of time is daily, so you have plenty of long term planning to do? I mean, if you don't want it, that's fine. I just wanted to help you get your fill of d20 rolls :smalltongue:

Rob Roy
2010-12-31, 06:09 AM
Even if the length of time is daily, so you have plenty of long term planning to do? I mean, if you don't want it, that's fine. I just wanted to help you get your fill of d20 rolls :smalltongue:
If you do rolls I like the "roll when you get the talent, roll when you get the next talent. I you failed twice you should be focusing on a different tree". But I think the system I just present is a fair compromise, so we should at least try it in playtesting. If it doesn't work then we can spend another half hour arguing. :smalltongue:

stormywaters
2010-12-31, 06:12 AM
Ok, ok! So we settled on a set mana pool based on willpower, and what system did we decide for the bonus mana for the talent?

How do the other updates I posted earlier look? Partial list for Bruiser and Crawler?

Rob Roy
2010-12-31, 06:14 AM
How do the other updates I posted earlier look? Partial list for Bruiser and Crawler?
To be honest I haven't actually looked at those yet, so I'll take a quick look and then go to bed because it's three in the morning in my time zone.
EDIT
It looks like your folding rager zombie into Bruiser, which is a good idea, and your making crawlers into a rogue type class. Don't have any specific comment yet, I'll save those for the morning.

stormywaters
2010-12-31, 06:16 AM
it's three in the morning in my time zone.

Me too! I'm drunk though, so it keeps me awake... for awhile.

Kuma Kode
2010-12-31, 06:56 AM
About the Zombie Master mana talents...

I don't think having a talent give a variable, one-time effect that can end up 0 is a good idea. I would be pretty livid if I picked both talents and got, like, 2 mana out of it.

EDIT: Wooooow a whole conversation about that sprung up while I was cooking dinner....

Anyways, on the talents and such, feel free to pick through my Shadow Theory (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147142) zombies (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8248917#post8248917) and steal info. Hopefully it's useful.

AyeGill
2010-12-31, 07:28 AM
That seems like a fair compromise to me. Static mana normally, and you can take a talent to get a random bonus to mana each day. 1dx + willpower seems fair, depending of course on the mana cost on spells.

grimbold
2010-12-31, 08:02 AM
its good just kinda 3.5 ish
if you had a mechanic for infecting people it would be awesome

Rob Roy
2010-12-31, 04:58 PM
About the Zombie Master mana talents...

I don't think having a talent give a variable, one-time effect that can end up 0 is a good idea. I would be pretty livid if I picked both talents and got, like, 2 mana out of it.

Mana pools refresh each day. If it ends up at 0 during the day you've been playing unintelligently.

its good just kinda 3.5 ish
if you had a mechanic for infecting people it would be awesome
3.5 is one of the two editions of D&D I like so I'm fine with that. I agree with the infecting people thing. Maybe give every class this starting talent.


Bite: You can attack with your teeth, dealing 1d4 damage. Every round after the attack it deals 1d4 poison damage, and if a creature dies this way the creature will come back in 3d6 turns as a zombie.

Kuma Kode
2011-01-01, 01:03 AM
Mana pools refresh each day. If it ends up at 0 during the day you've been playing unintelligently. I meant the talents, not the total pool. As written at the time of posting, it read as if the talents gave a static number upon taking the talent, and if you ended up rolling low on the d20, well, sucks to be you.

I am in favor of having the talent reroll once a day or once an encounter or something if that is what you all have decided on.

Rob Roy
2011-01-01, 01:11 AM
I meant the talents, not the total pool. As written at the time of posting, it read as if the talents gave a static number upon taking the talent, and if you ended up rolling low on the d20, well, sucks to be you.

I am in favor of having the talent reroll once a day or once an encounter or something if that is what you all have decided on.

He posted the A Faster Way To Kill Tree already? I just see the Necromancer tree. Anyway, how about this, every time you take the TWO talents that you may NOT take more than once, you get 10 mana plus you willpower bonus. Sound fair?
EDIT
Here's how it was submitted, for comparison.

A Quicker Way to Kill Talent Tree The Zombie Master while infamous for rasing corpses, knows many other ways to commit genocide

• Here, Have Some Mana: Roll a d20 and add your Willpower bonus, then subtract 10 from that score. The resulting number is have much mana you have. Mana is represented in points, and each spell costs a certain number of point. If you have less points than it takes to cast a spell, then you can't cast the spell. If what you just rolled resulted in a 0 or negitive number, then you don't gain any mana.

• Are You Sure This Is A Good Idea?: Whith this talent you can permanently remove however many HP you want from your HP Total and permanently add them to your mana total. The HP you lost this way can not be gotten back through any means whatsoever. You still get HP from your Resilience score and you still gain HP when you gain a level.
- Requires Here, Have Some Mana

• Making Murder Easier: The Zombie Master can choose any target being to get +10 on all attack rolls this round. This ability may only be used once per day.
- Requires Are You Sure This Is A Good Idea?

• The More Mana, The Merrier: Roll a d20 and add your Willpower bonus, then subtract 10 from that score. Add the resulting number to your Mana pool, unless the resulting number is a negitive. if it's a negitive, ignore it and reroll until you get a positve or 0 to add to your mana pool.
s
- Requires Here, Have Some Mana

• Kill it, Kill It!: Whenever you cast a spell that deals damage, add +10 damage to the roll that would determine how much damage the spell does. This applies even if the spell damages the caster.
- Requires Making Murder Easier

• The Jackpot: Takeyour mana pool and double it. That's your new mana pool.
- Requires The More Mana, The Merrier

EDIT(again)
The roll for mana thing was just talking about how much EXTRA mana you get per day, which is one of the things I was arguing against before I just said "screw it" and proposed the roll 1d6 + willpower bonus system up a few posts.

DragonOfUndeath
2011-01-01, 07:56 AM
1) How about this Mana fix:
Every day Zombie Masters get 1D6 Mana. Add 1D6 per level in Zombie Master. Add XD6 where X is your Willpower Bonus.
A Level1 Zombie Master with 14 Willpower (+2 Bonus) gets 4D6 Mana each day.
Some Talents or Feats can add more D6s to your Mana Pool.
When you roll for Mana you can gamble for more. Roll a D6, on a 3-6 add an extra D6 to your Mana Pool. On a 1-2 subtract a D6 from your Mana Pool. You may gamble XD6s where X is 1/2 Zombie Master Levels and Willpower Bonus.

2) I found a mistake in the ability scores. You say that 9 is a -1 Modifier but in the Core mechanics you say to round to 0.
9-10= -1
-1/2= -0.5
round TO 0: -0.5 becomes 0
9-10-11 should be 0 Bonus.

3) I would like to playtest this when it is ready too.

radmelon
2011-01-01, 02:25 PM
In most D20 products, it says "subtract 10 or 11, whichever gets an even number."

Rob Roy
2011-01-01, 04:50 PM
1) How about this Mana fix:
Every day Zombie Masters get 1D6 Mana. Add 1D6 per level in Zombie Master. Add XD6 where X is your Willpower Bonus.
A Level1 Zombie Master with 14 Willpower (+2 Bonus) gets 4D6 Mana each day.
Some Talents or Feats can add more D6s to your Mana Pool.
When you roll for Mana you can gamble for more. Roll a D6, on a 3-6 add an extra D6 to your Mana Pool. On a ]1-2 subtract a D6 from your Mana Pool. You may gamble XD6s where X is 1/2 Zombie Master Levels and Willpower Bonus.

2) I found a mistake in the ability scores. You say that 9 is a -1 Modifier but in the Core mechanics you say to round to 0.
9-10= -1
-1/2= -0.5
round TO 0: -0.5 becomes 0
9-10-11 should be 0 Bonus.

3) I would like to playtest this when it is ready too.
We've already decided, please put it to rest so we can talk about another class! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10070587&postcount=110) Look at this post and the one above to see what we're doing. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=10070564)

stormywaters
2011-01-01, 05:54 PM
You are right about the ability scores. I will modify that to work as intended.

stormywaters
2011-01-02, 12:33 AM
Sorry it's been slow updating guys. Combination of my birthday and new year's celebration, I have been busy.

I added some partial trees for the Hunter (previously named Runner).

Keep the posts coming!

Edit: Added a second tree to the Ringleader. Sorry Rob, I had to rename some stuff, but I tried to keep cool-sounding names for you. I did keep the "offense/defense" named talents, but I fixed it (the actual saying is "The best defense is a good offense").

Hope you like it, even though I modified and renamed some stuff.

stormywaters
2011-01-02, 01:57 AM
Oh, and to clear everything up, here is how the MP (mana points) will be handled:


Your mana points are equal to (your Willpower score + 5/level of Ringleader you possess), and refresh at dawn.

You basically have MP = WP, and you get 5 mana for each level you gain in Ringleader.

As for the bonus points given by the talent, I am thinking along the lines of:


Your mana points are now equal to (your Willpower score + 8/level of Ringleader you possess), and refresh at dawn.

So you basically gain 3 extra mana at each level. I might add a third talent to this chain, bumping it to 10 mana per level in Ringleader.

If this messes with the spells you've devised, Rob, they can be fixed easily enough by adjusting the mana costs. Just send them to me and I will look them over.

radmelon
2011-01-02, 02:48 AM
Whadow stalker seems a bit overpowered. Level 1 invisibility requiring little more than a bit of shade is ridiculous. At the very least, lower it to only concealment.

stormywaters
2011-01-02, 02:54 AM
Whadow stalker seems a bit overpowered. Level 1 invisibility requiring little more than a bit of shade is ridiculous. At the very least, lower it to only concealment.

I think so too, I just haven't decided on if stealth is a skill I wanted to give zombies or not. It will probably be modified to be similar to the talent crawlers start with.

stormywaters
2011-01-03, 04:44 AM
Ok guys, lots of updates. I have expanded some class trees, added some new class trees, and actually made some stuff for the Shambler. The classes are still not finished, but they're getting closer and closer by the minute.

I have edited the original post. I moved all the information to a blog I created. It allows me greater control over formatting and spacing, and allowed me to create a separate page for each of the classes, to keep them all separate from each other. I have added a link for the main rules post, as well as a link for each individual class. Here are the class links, for convenience sake:

Bruiser (http://homebrewnook.blogspot.com/2011/01/bruiser.html)

Zom-brat (http://homebrewnook.blogspot.com/2011/01/zom-brat.html)

Preserved (http://homebrewnook.blogspot.com/2011/01/preserved.html)

Putrefactor (http://homebrewnook.blogspot.com/2011/01/putrefactor.html)

Crawler (http://homebrewnook.blogspot.com/2011/01/crawler.html)

Ringleader (http://homebrewnook.blogspot.com/2011/01/ringleader.html)

Hunter (http://homebrewnook.blogspot.com/2011/01/hunter.html)

Shambler (http://homebrewnook.blogspot.com/2011/01/shambler.html)

radmelon
2011-01-03, 12:59 PM
Will HD, skills and BaB be included eventually?
<edit> And regarding the hunter's Unmatched Speed, what exactly is "a minor action"?

stormywaters
2011-01-03, 02:40 PM
Well there won't be hit dice, but there will be hit points. I said before I won't have random hit point generation.

I am working on adding skills already, and attack bonus will be added eventually as well.

A minor action will be exactly as it is in D&D. You will have a move action, a standard action, and a minor action each turn.

AyeGill
2011-01-03, 02:43 PM
Well there won't be hit dice, but there will be hit points. I said before I won't have random hit point generation.

I am working on adding skills already, and attack bonus will be added eventually as well.

A minor action will be exactly as it is in D&D. You will have a move action, a standard action, and a minor action each turn.

minor actions are called swift actions, at least in 3.5. maybe that was the source of the confusion.

stormywaters
2011-01-03, 02:55 PM
Ah you're right! I guess it was in 3rd edition and again in 4th edition.

A minor action will be an action you can't use to attack or move, but will cover a number of lesser actions, like drawing a weapon or opening a door.

radmelon
2011-01-03, 02:58 PM
<Hit dice confusion>
By HD size, I meant how much health per level. It's pretty much the same thing.

<Minor action stuff>
I personally have never played 4e before.

stormywaters
2011-01-03, 03:11 PM
Ah no worries. That is what minor actions are. And I am working on getting HP figured out.

Rob Roy
2011-01-04, 02:14 AM
Hey a blog, neat! Anyway I think a while ago you said I could do a final tree for the preserved zombie, which I don't think I'll be able to do now. Spell list should be coming in the next few days. What does recharge counter mentioned in the Shambler mean?

stormywaters
2011-01-04, 04:30 AM
Hey a blog, neat! Anyway I think a while ago you said I could do a final tree for the preserved zombie, which I don't think I'll be able to do now. Spell list should be coming in the next few days. What does recharge counter mentioned in the Shambler mean?

It's actually "Recharge Encounter". :smalltongue:

The way recharge works is thusly:

1. Recharge Encounter means once this power is used, it recharges at the end of the current encounter.

2. Recharge Daily means once this power is used, it recharges at the end of the current day.

3. Recharge X means at the start of your turn, roll a d6. On a roll of X or higher, this power is recharged and can be used this turn. For instance Recharge 5 means once you've used the power, roll a d6 at the start of your turn. When you roll a 5 or 6, the power is ready to use again.

I don't know if I worded that well enough to understand. I basically want abilities to work once a day, sometimes; other powers work once per fight; still other powers can be used multiple times per fight, but may require a couple rounds between uses.

You get what I'm trying to say?

Rob Roy
2011-01-04, 04:34 AM
It's actually "Recharge Encounter". :smalltongue:

The way recharge works is thusly:

1. Recharge Encounter means once this power is used, it recharges at the end of the current encounter.

2. Recharge Daily means once this power is used, it recharges at the end of the current day.

3. Recharge X means at the start of your turn, roll a d6. On a roll of X or higher, this power is recharged and can be used this turn. For instance Recharge 5 means once you've used the power, roll a d6 at the start of your turn. When you roll a 5 or 6, the power is ready to use again.

I don't know if I worded that well enough to understand. I basically want abilities to work once a day, sometimes; other powers work once per fight; still other powers can be used multiple times per fight, but may require a couple rounds between uses.

You get what I'm trying to say?
Okay, I understand it now. On an unrelated note, typo's are annoying.

stormywaters
2011-01-04, 04:45 AM
Did you find typos in my blog?

Rob Roy
2011-01-04, 04:48 AM
Did you find typos in my blog?
I was referring to my typo in my earlier post the "recharge counter".

stormywaters
2011-01-04, 05:01 AM
Oh ha ha. No worries.

stormywaters
2011-01-07, 02:23 AM
Sorry for slow updates guys. I have been busy, and I am now fighting a cold. I have added a flavor-text blurb to each class, and some new class abilities.

- Added HP, Starting Humanity, Ability score modifiers
- Added more abilities to Zom-brat
- Minor changes to Putrefactor

I will work through the weekend on more talent tree changes. I could really use some more feedback on what you guys think.

Thanks again!!

Rob Roy
2011-01-07, 02:52 AM
I don't think the humanity scores fit. Namely I think the putrefactor and ringleader have too high a humanity and the zom-brat has too low of one.

stormywaters
2011-01-07, 03:08 AM
I don't think the humanity scores fit. Namely I think the putrefactor and ringleader have too high a humanity and the zom-brat has too low of one.

The Ringleader may be a bit too high; it will go down to 10. They are willful zombies, so they haven't been partially eaten or anything.

The Putrefactor may be a little too high as well, so I will probably also knock it down 2 points.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the zom-brat though. I think 12 is a good starting point, since it's not quite as human-looking as the Preserved. The Preserved looks basically human, not at all zombie-like. The Zom-brat could, however, have visible damage, zombie wounds, etc. This would only serve to increase the "I'm a child in need of help, look at my boo-boos" theme.

Rob Roy
2011-01-07, 03:10 AM
I don't think there is anything wrong with the zom-brat though. I think 12 is a good starting point, since it's not quite as human-looking as the Preserved. The Preserved looks basically human, not at all zombie-like. The Zom-brat could, however, have visible damage, zombie wounds, etc. This would only serve to increase the "I'm a child in need of help, look at my boo-boos" theme.
I do suppose your right, I was just thinking that it'd be easier manipulating people if you didn't look like the walking corpses that they're trying to destroy.

radmelon
2011-01-07, 01:39 PM
It's not really clear, is multiclassing possible?

stormywaters
2011-01-07, 01:47 PM
It's not really clear, is multiclassing possible?

It will be, it's just not been added to the rules yet. I want to finish the classes before I sort out exactly how it'll be handled.

jojolagger
2011-01-07, 02:38 PM
Just posting to say this is awesome, and so subscribe gives me updates.

stormywaters
2011-01-07, 10:41 PM
Ok everyone, I have finished all the classes. I haven't updated the blog yet, that will be later tonight, but the classes are all done. I have three trees for each class except the shambler which doesn't need a third and the preserved, which I think is good just like it is.

I will post again when I get the updates posted to the blog.

stormywaters
2011-01-08, 02:35 AM
Alright guys, the completed classes are posted on the blog links posted above, and in the original post.

Let me know what you think!

Rob Roy
2011-01-08, 02:38 AM
Does your character count as it's own ally for the purposes of trait abilities?

stormywaters
2011-01-08, 02:46 AM
No. A player's allies are other characters (PC or NPC) that are friendly towards the player.

I am guessing you are referring to the Ringleader abilities, in which case I made them apply specifically not apply to the players own character, because they are not capable of fighting. They get low HP and physical stats, etc.

Rob Roy
2011-01-08, 02:55 AM
More on the Ringleader, why is it that it gets a penalty to strength instead of resilience? I could see say, a Ringleader knife murderer, but not a Ringleader that survive more than a few bullet holes in their chest. Also, how can you turn survivors into zombies and what happens to a survivors known languages? Can they automatically speak Zombese at the expense of no longer being able to speak normal language? Can Zombie minions talk to other zombies, and can they only say what the Ringleader commands them to say?

stormywaters
2011-01-08, 03:07 AM
More on the Ringleader, why is it that it gets a penalty to strength instead of resilience? I could see say, a Ringleader knife murderer, but not a Ringleader that survive more than a few bullet holes in their chest. Also, how can you turn survivors into zombies and what happens to a survivors known languages? Can they automatically speak Zombese at the expense of no longer being able to speak normal language? Can Zombie minions talk to other zombies, and can they only say what the Ringleader commands them to say?

As I said, it's not meant to be a weapon wielder. The Disease wasted their muscles and strengthened their minds. Plus, it leaves some more HP to be burned into mana if needed.

I haven't written all the rules yet, so let's not rush into all of that. Stick to classes for now. I will get to the "turning survivors into zombies" in time.

Upon turning, you lose the ability to speak Human and gain the ability to speak Zombie. Certain circumstances allow a zombie to relearn Human, but no known Humans speak Zombie (since for the most part they assume it's just groaning and shuffling around).

Zombie minions can only parrot what you say. They can say precisely what you say, not a word more. They cannot come up with their own thoughts or ideas, etc. They understand you, and only you, completely and accurately.