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View Full Version : Spell Idea. How balenced is this?



Acero
2010-12-25, 08:29 PM
Spell Level: 5th
School: Conjuration
Duration : 1 round/ caster level
Requires S,V,M
Effect: A 10' by 10' wall made of magical flame arises from the ground. Although the fire seems painful those who see it, it is actually harmless. The caster's allies, upon passing through the wall, have fire guard (1d6 fire damage if hit) placed on their armor, a flaming effect (+1d6 damage) on their weapons, and +2 to their "Intimidate skill. Enemies who pass through the wall and any allies too large to fit completely into the square are not damaged nor do they recieve any benefits.

Question in the title. Would this work in a game? oh, and I can't think of a name for it, so feel free to reccomend one if you have an idea.

Human Paragon 3
2010-12-25, 08:34 PM
I would bring the duration down to 1 round/level just to make it consistent. The earliest most casters can use the spell is level 9 anyway, and most combats last fewer than 9 rounds.

Also, what is Fire Guard? Do you mean Fire Shield? Or a certain amount of energy resistance/immunity to fire?

Does the "flaming enhancement" apply to natural weapons or just manufactured weapons? Weapons wielded, or also sheathed weapons and/or weapons in a back pack or belt?

And do these effects persist when your allies leave the flaming area? Also, what happens to an enemy in the area? Nothing?

Appart from these questions I see no reason this spell shouldn't work. It doesn't seem overly powerful to me!

Acero
2010-12-25, 08:39 PM
I would bring the duration down to 1 round/level just to make it consistent. The earliest most casters can use the spell is level 9 anyway, and most combats last fewer than 9 rounds.

Also, what is Fire Guard? Do you mean Fire Shield? Or a certain amount of energy resistance/immunity to fire?

Does the "flaming enhancement" apply to natural weapons or just manufactured weapons? Weapons wielded, or also sheathed weapons and/or weapons in a back pack or belt?

And do these effects persist when your allies leave the flaming area? Also, what happens to an enemy in the area? Nothing?

Appart from these questions I see no reason this spell shouldn't work. It doesn't seem overly powerful to me!

1. I don't know what it's officially called, so I guessed fire guard. 1d6 damage to anyone who attacks you

2. all weapons that are currently wielded. applies to natural weapons.

3. The efects are added once the character runs into, then out of the wall

ericgrau
2010-12-25, 08:55 PM
School: Evocation or Transmutation
Duration: 1 round / caster level, for the sake of consistency. 1 minute / CL might be ok too, though a little bit stronger.

Level 5 seems about right. I'd even make it level 3 except it affects multiple targets, so 5 seems fair. If you want to be conservative then level 6 might work too. Ya, it might be a strong level 5 or a weak level 6 spell.

Pigkappa
2010-12-25, 09:02 PM
If the flaming effect on the weapons is a +1d6 fire damage on a successful hit, and the duration is 1 round/level as suggested by Gaurd Juris, Level 4 would be balanced for this in my opinion.

Eurus
2010-12-25, 09:06 PM
I think it'd be awfully weak for a 5th level spell. 4th tops.

Damos Taranth
2010-12-25, 09:15 PM
Spell Level: 5th
School: Conjuration
Duration : 2 rounds/ caster level
Effect: A 10' by 10' wall made of magical flame arises from the ground. Although the fire seems painful, the casters allies, upon passing through the wall, recieve fire guard on their armor, a flaming effect on their weapons, and +2 to their Indimidate skill.

Thought it would be a good support spell

Question in the title. Would this work in a game? oh, and I can't think of a name for it, so feel free to reccomend one if you have an idea.

*taps chin* Okay, let's take this spell apart. We have a 5th level spell with the following effects:

Minor illusion: wall of fire. Never underestimate the capacity of just having a 10x10 area of the field blocked off, even if it's just that the enemies think it is. Double especially if you guys are passing through it, although intelligent enemies might click to illusion pretty quick on that...

Fiery weapon: A level 2 spell effect (Equiv Frost Weapon from Frostburn) made mass, and extended duration.

Fire shield: A level 4 spell effect made mass, and extended duration.

+2 Intimidate: Effectively a cantrip, and added fluff.


Honestly? I'm edging towards overpowered here, simply because fire shield as a spell is 4th level, personal only, single target only, and 1 round per level. This spell is also CRAZY powerful on a mass battlefield, doubly so if you have a cramped area to hold/break through.

To balance this spell, I would advise the following:

- After leaving the fiery area the effects only last a round after leaving.
- Spell effects apply to anyone who passes through, not just allies.

This basically restricts the characters to using it as a base, keeping them at low maneuverability to get the awesome buffs, and having the threat that an intelligent energy could use it a against them. With this in mind, you could even extend the duration of the spell...

Anyway, that's my thoughts on the matter.

ericgrau
2010-12-25, 09:16 PM
Similar spells add +1d6 at 3rd level but with a much longer duration, or even deal 2d6 per round at 2nd level but with a save allowed. But what I think everyone is missing is that it doesn't help just 1 person, it helps many people and that's a monumental boost in action economy and thus spell level. Damos has a good point that in mass combat it becomes way broken. I'd limit the number of creatures that can pass through it to 1 per caster level, at most. IMO 1 per 2 or 3 caster levels would be even better. Most parties wouldn't notice that much difference but it would prevent abuse.

JoshuaZ
2010-12-25, 09:35 PM
Spell Level: 4th
School: Conjuration
Duration : 1 rounds/ caster level
Effect: A 10' by 10' wall made of magical flame arises from the ground. Although the fire seems painful, the casters allies, upon passing through the wall, recieve fire guard (1d6 fire damage if hit) on their armor, a flaming effect (+1d6 damage) on their weapons, and +2 to their Indimidate skill.


Seems balanced as is. Minor typos- "Intimidate" "receive" "caster's allies"

I would specify what you mean by "seems painful"- to whom? Is it painful to walk through? Or do you mean looks like it would hurt? Also, does this flame have no impact on people not allied? If so, that should be stated explicitly. And is there a maximum number of allies you can grant this to? 1 ally/caster level would make sense. If there is no limit this might be abusable.

Acero
2010-12-25, 09:41 PM
fixed all my tyops. not adding a limit on how many can go through the barrier. Has no effect on enemies who pass through it.

Also added compnents but I don't know wether I should use regular or a special material.

Ozymandias
2010-12-25, 10:49 PM
Name: Ex Infernis (from hell). The fire is conjured from hell, and when the enemies see you emerge from it, eldritch flames dripping off of your assorted cutlery, of it they're probably going to draw the same conclusion

Think about it; you can essentially turn shock troops for throwaway attacks into potent suicide units, if nothing else. Herd a group of recruits or trained dogs or whatever through the zone, then tell them to charge. Even if Lt. John Q. Eliteunit cuts down the flaming peasant conscripts from hell he takes 1d6 damage, and every strike he does take deals twice as much damage as it otherwise would (assuming spear). That would have a huge effect on any sort of large melee, especially if it's a typical war and the HDs involved aren't so high.

Of course, you could cap it at 1 unit/CL affected, but where's the fun in that?

Gamer Girl
2010-12-26, 12:06 AM
I'd just dump the whole 'wall' idea. I'm not sure why you'd need or want it.

Just go for the simple: Fire Soul!

Fire Soul, 5th level Evocation. One creature a caster level his hit by a blast of soul fire that causes their soul to explode with fiery power. Their body is covered in flames that do 1d6 fire damage to anyone striking them in melee and also do an additional 1d6 fire damage on the creatures melee attacks and a +2 circumstance bonus on Intimidation rolls, but also a -5 penalty on any hide checks.. The fire does not harm the effect creatures. Duration 1round/level.

ericgrau
2010-12-26, 11:20 AM
Hmmm I just noticed good hope is a 3rd level bard spell that's almost as good, I mean +2 instead of two d6's. It lasts 1 min / level and affects 1 target per caster level. The biggest difference is it's a morale bonus which means it doesn't stack with a lot of other good spells. So I might even go back on what I said and push this spell to a strong 4th level spell, though that might be pushing it too far. I mean if any bard spell is 1 level lower than normal it'll be something like good hope and ya for all reasons said good hope has its drawbacks. Depends on the play group maybe.

Havvy
2010-12-26, 11:57 AM
Name: Ex Infernis (from hell). The fire is conjured from hell, and when the enemies see you emerge from it, eldritch flames dripping off of your assorted cutlery, of it they're probably going to draw the same conclusion

Hellfire is different than normal fire. So no go using that.

The effect you are going for seems to be a dual-school Illusion - Transmutation (see Players Handbook II on dual-school spells). Give it the saves: Will disbelief (see text), Fortitude negates (harmless) making note in the text that the will for disbelief makes them realize the fire is harmless.

This would be a good Paladin and Bard spell to have also. You should give it to them as third level spells.

"Requires somatic, verbal, and material components" can be changed to "Components: V, S, M". Also, your duration says 1 rounds/ where is should be 1 round/.

What happens if an ally larger than the wall wants to go through it? Say my ally is the Terrasque.

Acero
2010-12-26, 08:45 PM
allies too large to fit recieve no benefit

DracoDei
2010-12-27, 12:16 AM
This is fairly useful in combination with large-number based summoning. Level 5 sounds about right based on the reviews I have seen. Stuff that is really good for mass combat is very nice flavor (because it doesn't come up in most games).

wiimanclassic
2010-12-27, 10:55 AM
Hm. Maybe take the wall version and make it a higher level and maybe a small boost. Why you may ask? Well the wall is stronger and intended more for war and thus less likely to be used by low level mages.

Iituem
2010-12-27, 11:24 AM
Nothing to add mechs-wise that hasn't already been broached. Just with regard to the name, you do realise this is basically a sort of Sanctuary spell, right? Central base you need to stay close to in order to gain the benefits of, etc. So why not just name it Flaming Sanctuary?

Acero
2010-12-27, 02:46 PM
Central base you need to stay close to in order to gain the benefits of, etc. So why not just name it Flaming Sanctuary?

I don't plan on it being used a base. more in the situation of:

Leader: Charge!
*Wizard casts*
*group of soldiers run through the wall then down the hill towards the enemies while covered in flames*