ruling the world

[blazingshadow]

other than the living in luxury and reveling in all the fame because i'm evil bit what is the point of ruling the world/continent? maybe i'm lazy but i see it as too much work for little reward. i guess that is why tarquin has his death planned out as well but i don't see the practical applications of ruling everything since the more you control the more you need to delegate to keep your free time to enjoy the torturing and the luxury.

perhaps i missed something and there is actually some practical reason xykon wants to evily rule the world/universe.

[Gift Jeraff]

The way Xykon thinks he's going to rule the world does not require much delegation. They just need a Gate and presto--no one's gonna want to disobey when Team Evil can just unleash the Snarl on them.

Plus, pre-undeath, Xykon was reaching the end of his life, wanted to create an evil legacy, and did not expect it to take over 3 decades (consider that he almost got a Gate 3 years in).

Post-lichdom, Xykon really has nothing better to do, so it doesn't matter if it takes a great amount of time and effort. He has an eternity to spend on the planet, might as well try to rule it.

[NerfTW]

From Start of Darkness:

Xykon wants to rule the world for the same reason Tarquin does, actually.

So he'll be remembered.

That's really the only point, unless you have an actual change you're trying to implement. Think about it, how many and which Roman rulers can you name? How many kings?

[Swordpriest]

Presumably, because it's one heck of an ego boost to have entire nations tremble at each of your words. Because it gives you a rush like nothing else to know that entire cities live and die on your whim. Because the world is your toy and everything in must bow to your will, or be crushed slowly and painfully before being thrown to the Snarl and unmade.

[HalfTangible]

Ruling the world means that you can have anything you want done everywhere you want it done. 'Nuff said.

[Zmflavius]

For the same reason I love playing high strategy games: Because it gives me a kick to control lots of stuff. Cities, armies, etc., I feel excited because I have a semblance of control over something.

[Felixc-91]

well, from Zykon's perspective, it sounds kinda boring... i mean, sure, at first he gets to do whatever he wants but that's kinda limited by the fact that drugs, sex, and food are all ruled out due to his lack of biology. so whats left, power tripping off ordering people around, and... what the visual and/or auditory arts? so he gets to have fun for a few years, maybe a few decades with the whole world at his disposal and then its going to get boring. especially if he ignores the arts which sounds like something Zykon would do.
responsibilities or things one needs to do to maintain power would not be the problem, it come down to having seen everything several times already.

[slayerx]

well, from Zykon's perspective, it sounds kinda boring... i mean, sure, at first he gets to do whatever he wants but that's kinda limited by the fact that drugs, sex, and food are all ruled out due to his lack of biology. so whats left, power tripping off ordering people around, and... what the visual and/or auditory arts? so he gets to have fun for a few years, maybe a few decades with the whole world at his disposal and then its going to get boring. especially if he ignores the arts which sounds like something Zykon would do.
responsibilities or things one needs to do to maintain power would not be the problem, it come down to having seen everything several times already.

Your neglecting the the joy he gets from watching people die... hell with a whole world at his disposal he could start up wars just to watch the chaos of the battlefield. one can only wonder how long it might take for him to get bored of killing/maiming people

[Felixc-91]

Your neglecting the the joy he gets from watching people die... hell with a whole world at his disposal he could start up wars just to watch the chaos of the battlefield. one can only wonder how long it might take for him to get bored of killing/maiming peopleyeah, that was kinda covered under making people do whatever he feels like (kill/die in this case). although i suppose the chaos of the battlefield might keep things interesting for a while. IDK i personally get board without an intellectual challenge or learning something new after a while.

[Thanatosia]

All for freedom and for pleasure
Nothing ever lasts forever
Everybody wants to rule the world!

[Forum Explorer]

I think Xykon would eventrually get bored and end up destroying the world. I mean he got pretty bored just ruling one city.

[Chaos rising]

I think Xykon would eventrually get bored and end up destroying the world. I mean he got pretty bored just ruling one city.
My thoughts exactly. Once he had a nation under his control he frittered away his time making magic items and watching untrained slave fight each other (and giving O-chul loads of opportunities to show how badass he is). What is he going to do once there is nothing left to take over?

[Dr.Epic]

How about power? You can do anything and you can get anything.

[Swordpriest]

Exactly my point. The fate of nations is clay in your hands, waiting to be shaped. History itself bows to your will -- you control its destinies and can even make a major impact on its future. As ruler of the world, you'll be dang close to a demigod. With Xykon's magical power, there are even more things he can do -- including imitating Ganonron, and attempting to conquer even more worlds.

I'm astonished that some people think the limitations of every thinking being's ambition would be unlimited food, sex, and drugs. :smalleek: There's a heck of a lot more you can do with unlimited power than satisfy a few bestial needs. If that were true, nobody would ever try to get more in our world than a modest monetary fortune.

Still, in the case of Xykon, who has no interest in anything beyond amusement, I'd say there's a large chance that he'd destroy the world eventually out of boredom, as you say.

[Madapplejack]

Xykon would get definitely get bored, and start looking for new excitement. He could possibly move on to other planes, maybe try to attain divine status for himself. He could hope for someone to come along and topple his empire, just so he could start over again from the bottom. If he got bored enough, he might even secretly aid someone opposing him, figuring the only ones who'd suffer would be his many minions.

[Kislath]

In "Emperor Doom," Dr. Doom finally takes over the world and absolutely rules it. He hates it. When the last heroes come to stop him, he can effortlessly stop them with the simple push of a button, but he lets them win.

[Dr.Epic]

In "Emperor Doom," Dr. Doom finally takes over the world and absolutely rules it. He hates it. When the last heroes come to stop him, he can effortlessly stop them with the simple push of a button, but he lets them win.

Pfff. Dr. Doom; I'm beginning to suspect he doesn't actually has a PhD, not like me.

[NerfTW]

mean, sure, at first he gets to do whatever he wants but that's kinda limited by the fact that drugs, sex, and food are all ruled out due to his lack of biology.

Xykon made his decision BEFORE he became a lich, to leave a legacy after he died. The only reason he became a lich was because he was beaten so thoroughly that he was now doomed to live out his last days forgotten and trapped in a cave. At this point, ruling the world is the only thing he has. And up until just recently, he figured he was invincible as well.

[blazingshadow]

In "Emperor Doom," Dr. Doom finally takes over the world and absolutely rules it. He hates it. When the last heroes come to stop him, he can effortlessly stop them with the simple push of a button, but he lets them win.actually this is what i was thinking when i made the thread. once you gain enough power that makes everything a trivial challenge at best what do you do after that?

yeah xykon might have all the world's resources to make epic and non epic spells and he could even try to devote his time to find a way to become inmortal without the drawbacks of being a lich but eventually there is nothing to challenge you to go higher. i guess that is why most liches and deathless eventually decide to use astral projection to pass the time

[Obsequious]

I get the feeling that ruling the world is never an ends in itself, but really only something to shoot for. The thought of being the sole deciding factor in what happens in the world is pretty heady, but then, what's really left to do?

In a material sense, owning the world doesn't really get a given person anything that being extremely wealthy or powerful couldn't get them. You don't have to own France to get the best available French wine, after all. As noted, pretty much every benefit to ruling the world comes from the psychological sense of, well, owning the world, and that's temporary at best.

Xykon would probably trip on the whole schtick of finally ruling the world after all that scheming, entertain himself with cracking down on whatever rebels there might be, and when he finally has complete, absolutely unquestioned control of things, will begin a steady decline into boredom. He'll probably hold it off by constructing elaborate games/scenarios, but the minute he can't shoot higher, his primary concern will slowly become what happens post-Xykon.

How post-Xykon happens will be up to whatever state things are in at the time.

In short, the journey is better than the prize.

[Tazar]

Simple; it's good to be the king.

[CletusMusashi]

Xykon doesn't want the world. He wants the Snarl, and then the gods, and then the entire Multiverse. He doesn't want or care about the responsibility of actually running things, he just wants a wider variety of ways to torture and kill. And possibly some coffee.
Tarquin wants to rule because he's an egomaniac who thinks it's absurd that to just stand back and let anyone else do it. He's too pompous to think anyone could do it better than him, and too ambitious to approve of anybody having more control than him. Although, realistically, all Tarquin rules is a good-sized chunk of a continent. I think he's well aware that ruling the entire world is a bit of a stretch.
And in response to the earlier comment about not needing to rule France to get French wine... what if France were being burned and conquered every few years by a new army? A lot of the Tarquin's material reward is that he can tell that invading army "Leave the vinyards, but destroy the mime college."

[Traab]

Honestly? I think its like a hobby. They dont make sense to people who dont share the same interest. You cant really EXPLAIN why you like collecting stamps and then looking at them, you just do. Some people collect stamps, others try to make money, some want power. Someone like Tarquin would be happy for the rest of his life with power, because there are always new intrigues to create, control, and triumph over. Xykon would suck if he had the power, as he would be the type to either go too far and destroy everything, or get bored and destroy everything.

Also, the taking over the country/world part is a lot like making investments. Most dont go in thinking they are going to make a billion dollars in under a year, its a long term goal. It takes a lot of effort to startup, but once you hit that plateau, you get to reap the benefits from then on with minimal effort. Taking over a country is hard, once you HAVE control though, all you have to do is avoid pissing off the populace enoughf or them to all rebel at once.

[snikrept]

So he can enslave millions of spellcaster cohorts from around the globe to aid him in his research of an epic spell that will allow him to taste coffee.

[paladinofshojo]

While most of the arguments are reasonable and valid, they are not the real reason one would want to rule the world. The problem with the previous anwsers, such as "ego boost" or "anything you want when you want it" are the fantasies of ordinary lowborn schmucks (no offence) and as such they're unaccustomed to dealing with that much wealth and/or power.

Now historically, many of the people who claimed to "rule the world" (Alexander of Macedonia, Gaius Julius Caesar, Genghis Khan, etc.) were already born into wealth and power, they could have had everything their heart's desired already. But with that, comes great pride and a desire to prove oneself as worthy of his status. Another factor was that their world was full of a lot more turmoil then ours, (and similar to D&D and OotS) so no one couldn't really stand up to them and they were capable of doing anything and get away with it. So they had a need to prove themselves and had no set rules or anyone over them telling them what they can or can't do. They did what anyone who was groomed for power would do, they began to challenge, defeat, and conquer their rivals and enemies. The pride that they were instilled with since birth couldn't accept anyone being as strong as them so they actively seeked out more and more challenges and conquered them. (or died trying) Eventually, there was no one left who could stand up to them and then they're labeled as "great emperors" or "godkings" or "rulers of the world". In the end, that's what truly drives the real "conquerors of the world" of the antiquital age, as elites they wanted to see if there was someone else who was strong enough to stand up to them or they would be driven to force the world to its knees, whichever comes first...

[Ron Miel]

"When Alexander saw the breadth of his domain, he wept for there were no more worlds to conquer."

The joy is not in the ruling of a vast empire, it's the acquiring. Climbing the ladder is all the fun. Reaching the top, and having nowhere else to climb is boring. To a megalomaniac, conquest is like a game. Tarquin and Xykon can have fun expanding their empires, but if either of them ever actually conquers the world, they'd hate it.

[Popertop]

I don't think people would like being ruled by Xykon.
And I'm sure there are people more powerful than him.

This goes back to his philosophy of power (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0657.html), ruling the world is yet another
notch on his belt, and if he can sustain it, then kudos
to him. But if he fails and someone knocks him off his throne,
then he didn't deserve it in the first place.

[TigerHunter]

For Xykon, he probably doesn't care so much about ruling the world as conquering it. And I doubt he's given any thought to what he'll do after he's finished with that.

[DSCrankshaw]

Think about it, how many and which Roman rulers can you name? How many kings?


What, from memory? With no referral to references? Just a few:


I won't even try to put it in order. My knowledge of Roman Emperors isn't that great:

Julius Caesar
Augustus
Claudius
Caligula
Nero
Trajan
Marcus Aurelius
Constantine


Hey, even if most people don't remember you--there are a lot of nobody Roman emperors--you at least make the history books.

But here's the thing: if you're the one who does it, such as conquering the world or founding the Empire, then you will be remembered. Everyone does know the first Roman Emperor (technically Augustus) or the first US president. Maybe nobody will know your successor, but that's another matter.

[Tannhaeuser]

What, from memory? With no referral to references? Just a few:


I won't even try to put it in order. My knowledge of Roman Emperors isn't that great:

Julius Caesar
Augustus
Claudius
Caligula
Nero
Trajan
Marcus Aurelius
Constantine


Hey, even if most people don't remember you--there are a lot of nobody Roman emperors--you at least make the history books.

But here's the thing: if you're the one who does it, such as conquering the world or founding the Empire, then you will be remembered. Everyone does know the first Roman Emperor (technically Augustus) or the first US president. Maybe nobody will know your successor, but that's another matter.

From memory, I can add (just of Roman emperors):

Commodus
Diocletian
Domitian
Hadrian
Heliogabalus
Julian
Nerva
Tiberius
Titus
Vespasian


I could do quite a lot of kings (but let's see if I can remember Rome's seven...nope, just four):


Numa
Romulus
Servius Tullius
Tarquin (!) the Proud


Oops. I had said Titus Tatius, but he was apparently a king of the Sabines. Heu!

Does Xykon actually say he wants to conquer the world to be remembered? That seems so out of character for him; he doesn't seem like the type to give a Hoover Dam about the opinion of posterity, or of contemporaneity, for that matter.

[martinkou]

If Xykon succeeded in killing every sentient living being in the world, then there won't be any more adventurers coming to hunt him down. After that, he'll kill the Gods with his controlled Gates as well so even the Gods won't kill him. He'll finally be safe once he'd killed everything in all of the multiverse.

So in a very perverted way... you can say it's personal defense. :P


While most of the arguments are reasonable and valid, they are not the real reason one would want to rule the world. The problem with the previous anwsers, such as "ego boost" or "anything you want when you want it" are the fantasies of ordinary lowborn schmucks (no offence) and as such they're unaccustomed to dealing with that much wealth and/or power.

Now historically, many of the people who claimed to "rule the world" (Alexander of Macedonia, Gaius Julius Caesar, Genghis Khan, etc.) were already born into wealth and power, they could have had everything their heart's desired already. But with that, comes great pride and a desire to prove oneself as worthy of his status. Another factor was that their world was full of a lot more turmoil then ours, (and similar to D&D and OotS) so no one couldn't really stand up to them and they were capable of doing anything and get away with it. So they had a need to prove themselves and had no set rules or anyone over them telling them what they can or can't do. They did what anyone who was groomed for power would do, they began to challenge, defeat, and conquer their rivals and enemies. The pride that they were instilled with since birth couldn't accept anyone being as strong as them so they actively seeked out more and more challenges and conquered them. (or died trying) Eventually, there was no one left who could stand up to them and then they're labeled as "great emperors" or "godkings" or "rulers of the world". In the end, that's what truly drives the real "conquerors of the world" of the antiquital age, as elites they wanted to see if there was someone else who was strong enough to stand up to them or they would be driven to force the world to its knees, whichever comes first...

Power is addicting to some people just as the nerd kid who finds being able to control a computer in whatever programming language is addicting. It's only a natural thing to do for kids like these to found tech companies later because it's a good way to let them figure out how to build and operate ever bigger things. It's one thing to have a company under your name with all the wealth related to it, it's quite another to make it all WORK according to your wishes.

Same for countries. There could have been people who're in it not because of status or titles, but because they genuinely wanted to bring something from their imagination into the real world, and make it work. e.g. the US.

[Ron Miel]

Does Xykon actually say he wants to conquer the world to be remembered? That seems so out of character for him

Yes, in Start Of Darkness when meeting Redcloak for the first time, he says he wants to do something to be remembered. Redcloak tells him about the gates, and Xykon thinks that's a gooid way to do it.

[Tannhaeuser]

Thanks, Ron Miel. Good to know.

So I guess in some sense Xykon does care what people think about him. I wonder if that might be interpreted, though, as (in some sense) an extension of his desire for power. If you can determine how people think about you, I suppose you gain some sort of mastery over them. On the other hand, that seems kind of over-subtle for Xykon. Hmmm... something to mull over.

[paladinofshojo]

Power is addicting to some people just as the nerd kid who finds being able to control a computer in whatever programming language is addicting. It's only a natural thing to do for kids like these to found tech companies later because it's a good way to let them figure out how to build and operate ever bigger things. It's one thing to have a company under your name with all the wealth related to it, it's quite another to make it all WORK according to your wishes.
And what does that have to do with political power?




Same for countries. There could have been people who're in it not because of status or titles, but because they genuinely wanted to bring something from their imagination into the real world, and make it work. e.g. the US.

Technically, the Revolution was brought on by a third of the colonial population who decided they were sick of being treated like British Citizens just because they were legitimately taxed, and then decided it was a great idea to commit high treason. I believe you're talking about the drafting of the Constitution that was what most historians attribute those feelings toward. Anyway, sure they're are people with that pretty little dream, but how often do you see someone trying to give that reason for trying to conquer the world? What to make it a better place? Asides from that, we can't say it's a valid reason because no one has ever tried it....

[TigerHunter]

Yes, in Start Of Darkness when meeting Redcloak for the first time, he says he wants to do something to be remembered. Redcloak tells him about the gates, and Xykon thinks that's a gooid way to do it.
Note that that was when he was still human and expecting to be dead within a decade or two, and a legacy was really all he felt he could look forward to. Now that he's got a possible eternity of unlife ahead of him, he's most likely just in it for gits and shiggles.

[Tvtyrant]

Nerva
Trajan
Octavian
Marcus Aurelius
Commodus
Heraclius
Justinian
Phocas
Alexus
Honorus

Some others are floating around my head but I'm not sure they are real :P