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Jeivar
2010-12-27, 03:25 PM
OK, so I'm going to play a German Brujah noblewoman and I'm trying to decide what I should actually have her DO besides tackle whatever the GM is going to throw at us. I need to give her some sort of goal and role within Kindred society.

She has a starting Humanity score of Nine, a Ward (her 10-year old son) a True Love (a bard), Prey Exclusion (children) and is overall as compassionate as a Cainite can be and is trying her hardest to defy the Beast and accomplish some good in the world. I'm just not sure how to do that in a medieval setting. Trying to improve the lot of the peasants somehow? Push for more widespread education and better medicine? There is of course "don't treat mortals like expendable pawns and bloodbags", but no-one important is likely to listen to a neonate with a soft heart.

Any ideas? I've really come to dig my character concept and I want to give her something to do.

Piedmon_Sama
2010-12-27, 04:45 PM
You've said the setting is Medieval, but that covers a really vast spectrum of time. Could you help narrow it down--is this Early Middle Ages (7th-mid 11th Centuries), High (Late 11th, 12th and 13th Centuries) or Late (14th to 15th Centuries) ?

In many ways the Middle Ages is the history of the struggle between Secular and Religious authorities to exert their own rule of law. Particularly in Germany, any kind of central authority at the "national" level (e.g able to impose its authority over the whole of what corresponds to the modern German nation) failed to develop. Your noblewoman could be trying to either help the Holy Roman Emperors or maybe some particularly powerful Bishop to gain a wider authority, since it's much better for peasants to live under one rule of law than many. Contrariwise, as a noble she could be trying to protect her own domain from absorption by more powerful lords or prelates.

Jeivar
2010-12-27, 05:01 PM
You've said the setting is Medieval, but that covers a really vast spectrum of time. Could you help narrow it down--is this Early Middle Ages (7th-mid 11th Centuries), High (Late 11th, 12th and 13th Centuries) or Late (14th to 15th Centuries) ?


Oh right. 12th century. The default starting date for Vampire: Dark Ages.

Piedmon_Sama
2010-12-27, 05:42 PM
12th Century Germany, eh?

In many ways the 12th Century is the most vital of the Medieval centuries. Some scholars consider it a European Renaissance prior to the Italian one; after centuries where travel was hazardous and the rule of law generally weak, something like larger legal-cultural groups began to emerge. A surviving Roman Code of Law was discovered in Northern Italy, and became a standard by which many countries based their civil codes. The Lombard cities in Northern Italy began to emerge as trading powers, and asserted increasing independence from the self-proclaimed Roman Emperor in Germany. Eventually matters came to a head in five repeated invasions of Italy by Frederick Barbarossa; although this managed to secure the wealthy agricultural lands of Sicily for him, the city-states of North Italy won virtual independence.

This is an age where the Gothic movement is beginning to manifest itself in Northern Europe; few if any of the grand cathedrals would be completed, but their naves and altars would have been dedicated and already in use for mass while the towers and facades etc. were still being worked on. "Big" cities rarely surpass more than 10,000 inhabitants, usually built extremely densely with the buildings cramped up against each other inside walls (which are actually more used to keep merchants from sneaking their wares out and selling at a reduced price in the woods than for war).

Unfortunately Germany isn't really an area in my expertise; one thing that set their feudal network apart from Western Europe was the use of Ministeriales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministerialis) who were essentially serfs/bondsmen entrusted with managing a patch of land or even a castle and military service. Most of the fighting men in Germany were actually of this technically unfree but increasingly important class.

Germany had huge tracts of area which were essentially lawless even while in France and England the kings were beginning to get a tighter grip on their constituents. Brigands and Robber-Barons frequently menaced both roads and rivers (a popular tactic was to throw a big chain across a river, let a boat get stuck on the chain and then take a piece of the merchandise as a "road tax.") Any attempt to control this behavior ran into the problem that the same people who were robbers in peacetime were usually the same people you needed in wartime.

- An extremely important thing to know would be your character's religious beliefs. Does she fully understand what's happened to her? Does she still believe in God? Does she still believe in Church dogma? If not, does she believe in the interpretations of any of the numerous heretical groups dotting Europe at this time, such as the Cathars? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathars) Her level of theological education would be important, and it could be anyplace; a high-ranking noblewoman could be extremely well educated if her parents and husband allowed, or her knowledge could be limited to a few hymns (which was average for that time).

This could potentially be extremely important in determining her sympathies for the two broad camps we call Ghuelf and Ghuebeline. Spanning most of the middle ages was this long dispute between the German Emperor and the Pope in Italy over spiritual authority; the German Emperor considered himself to be the legal heir of the Emperor of Rome, of Constantine, which he thought should give him religious and political control over his Empire. The Pope insisted that he must have absolute control over the Church in all regions, e.g only the Pope could appoint Bishops in the various countries. Many different political factions in Germany and Italy (and we're talking about hundreds of prominent families in hundreds of cities or feudatories) found it convenient to declare themselves for Pope or Emperor, usually to take sides in a much more immediate ongoing feud with their local neighbors/rivals.

The Rose Dragon
2010-12-27, 05:46 PM
Humanity 9? How did a starting character get Humanity 9? Did I miss some rule somewhere when I used to play Vampire (I used the ST's books, so I can't really check)?

Did you consider Golconda, by any chance?

Semidi
2010-12-27, 11:08 PM
Keep in mind also, that she's Brujah pre-inquisition. She could be well keeping her people safe from the various non-nice vampires (see: almost all of them), expecially those nefarious Ventrue who might be attempting to take her land and enslave her people etc. etc. etc.

I could very well see a brujah noblewoman working to keep peace in her domain and protect it from external threats. This could create potential conflict with the old Anarch Revolt comes traveling down.

Jeivar
2010-12-28, 01:42 AM
snip


That's quite the answer. :smallsmile: I'll have time to look over it when I get back from work.


Humanity 9? How did a starting character get Humanity 9? Did I miss some rule somewhere when I used to play Vampire (I used the ST's books, so I can't really check)?

Did you consider Golconda, by any chance?

Starting Humanity is Conscience plus Self-Control, and I boosted hers up to 4 and 5 respectively.

As for Golconda, she probably hasn't heard about it yet. I'll leave it up to the GM, if he wants to bring it up.



I could very well see a brujah noblewoman working to keep peace in her domain and protect it from external threats.

Yeah, I get the feeling that our game will be essentially that; Keeping the peace in and around Leipzig.

Dingle
2010-12-28, 03:12 AM
increasing virtues with freebies doesn't change derrived statistics (humanity and willpower)
do you have low courage/willpower?

Scalenex
2010-12-28, 06:31 AM
OK, so I'm going to play a German Brujah noblewoman and I'm trying to decide what I should actually have her DO besides tackle whatever the GM is going to throw at us. I need to give her some sort of goal and role within Kindred society.

She has a starting Humanity score of Nine, a Ward (her 10-year old son) a True Love (a bard), Prey Exclusion (children) and is overall as compassionate as a Cainite can be and is trying her hardest to defy the Beast and accomplish some good in the world. I'm just not sure how to do that in a medieval setting. Trying to improve the lot of the peasants somehow? Push for more widespread education and better medicine? There is of course "don't treat mortals like expendable pawns and bloodbags", but no-one important is likely to listen to a neonate with a soft heart.

Any ideas? I've really come to dig my character concept and I want to give her something to do.

Just because she doesn't like casually murdering mortals means she wants to elevate them. The Utopia of Carthage, as most Brujah (mis)remember it was a benevolent dictatorship essentially (yes very simplified version of Carthage). It's often best to base a Brujah's personal cause on their trials in life and the manner and reason they were embraced. Without more context I'm not sure I can give decent advice.

Also, high Humanity doesn't necessarily mean soft hearted. They could still be willing to make sacrifices for the greater good, they'd just be wracked by guilt a lot.

Quincunx
2010-12-28, 07:42 AM
She could admire the work of the Crusaders and devote herself to making pilgrimages and travel easier between those islands of civilization that are medieval cities, for mortals or for vampires, traveling herself or ghouling cart-drivers. It gives you an excuse to get some influence, and your virtues would make it (marginally) easier for other vampires to trust you with such a dangerous job.

She might be interested in livestock breeding programs, sees the inherent waste in killing humans (see also: prey exclusion), and develops a stock program for the city showing how many vampires can be supported in which districts. Mind, some other vampires get annoyed when someone else pries into the extent of their herds, and even more annoyed when someone discovers that the local population is mathematically incapable of surviving on the humans present.

Did she develop radical new ideas about justice by (vampire) jury after discovering that her disciplines meant that trial by combat against her was now a farce? Was she a tradesman's elevated daughter, who between her life, her bard, and her ability to pass as a mortal, has a variety of mortal contacts and news sources that the Nosferatu would envy? Did she use Presence to gather the children to safety in times of war, thus touching off the legend which would jump across cities and evolve into the Pied Piper?

BrainFreeze
2010-12-28, 08:42 AM
I would make the character a librarian opposed to the rising catholic church. The character's motivation would be to travel the lands gathering books the church is opposed to and storing them so the knowledge is not lost to the world.

Jeivar
2010-12-28, 11:34 AM
increasing virtues with freebies doesn't change derrived statistics (humanity and willpower)

Yes it does. I double-checked after reading your comment. Are you thinking of Vampire: The Requiem? Because I'm talking about the old system.


do you have low courage/willpower?

No, I have three dots in courage and splurged for eight in willpower.


Just because she doesn't like casually murdering mortals means she wants to elevate them.

I know, that's just how I want to play.


Also, high Humanity doesn't necessarily mean soft hearted. They could still be willing to make sacrifices for the greater good, they'd just be wracked by guilt a lot.

I know. I just meant that a depraved elder would think "fellow feeling = weakling".


I would make the character a librarian opposed to the rising catholic church. The character's motivation would be to travel the lands gathering books the church is opposed to and storing them so the knowledge is not lost to the world.

Solid idea, and I might use it for a future character, but the game will be based around Leipzig so heavy traveling is out.


She could admire the work of the Crusaders and devote herself to making pilgrimages and travel easier between those islands of civilization that are medieval cities, for mortals or for vampires, traveling herself or ghouling cart-drivers. It gives you an excuse to get some influence, and your virtues would make it (marginally) easier for other vampires to trust you with such a dangerous job.

She might be interested in livestock breeding programs, sees the inherent waste in killing humans (see also: prey exclusion), and develops a stock program for the city showing how many vampires can be supported in which districts. Mind, some other vampires get annoyed when someone else pries into the extent of their herds, and even more annoyed when someone discovers that the local population is mathematically incapable of surviving on the humans present.

Did she develop radical new ideas about justice by (vampire) jury after discovering that her disciplines meant that trial by combat against her was now a farce? Was she a tradesman's elevated daughter, who between her life, her bard, and her ability to pass as a mortal, has a variety of mortal contacts and news sources that the Nosferatu would envy? Did she use Presence to gather the children to safety in times of war, thus touching off the legend which would jump across cities and evolve into the Pied Piper?

The gender-bent vampiric Pied Piper, yessir. I get the feeling you play very interesting characters :smallsmile:. I don't know if I'll use any of your ideas, but thanks for being so helpful.
I kinda like your last idea though. Maybe I could have her fund an orphanage, or some other safe haven for young outcasts.

Dingle
2010-12-28, 04:50 PM
not vampire the requiem, but vampire the masqerade revised.
sorry about that, I didn't know how much is different between dark ages and regular.
I also don't know if you're using Vampire:the dark ages, or Dark ages Vampire.

Jeivar
2010-12-29, 11:07 AM
Say, here's a little addendum: I'm having a hard time finding the rules about ghouls and hunting. The copy of Vampire the Dark Ages I'm using doesn't seem to have them. Could someone fill me in on ghoul abilities and frenzies, and hunting in a medieval setting?

comicshorse
2010-12-29, 11:33 AM
Say, here's a little addendum: I'm having a hard time finding the rules about ghouls and hunting. The copy of Vampire the Dark Ages I'm using doesn't seem to have them. Could someone fill me in on ghoul abilities and frenzies, and hunting in a medieval setting?

Ghouls are normal humans the infusion of Vampire vitae gives them a point of Discipline, which is almost always a point of Potence. They can develop more points but unless they've been ghouls for decades, forget it. They also have a Blood Pool of their Master's blood to sustain them ( I can't remeber the exact rules but I don't think they can have more than two points of Vampiric vitae, these can be spent to heal themselves).
Ghouls don't really Frenzy as Vampires do although the blood can give them heightened emotions.
Hunting in the Medieval setting is really difficult :smalleek: Learn Animalism, if you intend to travel at all you should be able to hunt animals for blood for when you aren't in cities

Jeivar
2010-12-30, 01:37 AM
Ghouls are normal humans the infusion of Vampire vitae gives them a point of Discipline, which is almost always a point of Potence. They can develop more points but unless they've been ghouls for decades, forget it. They also have a Blood Pool of their Master's blood to sustain them ( I can't remeber the exact rules but I don't think they can have more than two points of Vampiric vitae, these can be spent to heal themselves).


Can they soak damage?


Hunting in the Medieval setting is really difficult :smalleek:

Do you remember the rules for it?

comicshorse
2010-12-30, 06:52 AM
Can they soak damage?

They're pretty much humans so unless you're ST allows humans to soak damage (which I've seen BTW) then, no. Though obviously they can wear armour and old ghouls can develop Fortitude. Also as far as I'm aware Ghouls can only develop Disciplines that their Master has.


Do you remember the rules for it?

I checked my Dark Ages book and there don't seem to be rules for it included unfortunately. I suspect my old ST made them up himself. All I can suggest is glancing at some modern rules and then raising the Diff. to reflect the lower population density of cities. On the road they better have Animalism or expect to leave a trail of drained farmers behind them