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RndmNumGen
2010-12-28, 11:55 AM
I was reading through the Craft rules when I noticed something interesting: A Druid can use the Ironwood spell to craft wooden items that function like metal items, including weapons and armor that can not normally be made of metal. Of course, this is a rather high-level spell, and by that level special materials such as Mithral and Adamantine are somewhat commonplace. Another special material is Darkwood though, which weighs one-half as much as normal wood does, similar to how Mithral weighs one-half as much as steel. That got be thinking... could a druid make Darkironwood weapons and armor that function as Mithral items for most intents and purposes, including making normally Medium armor count as Light armor for encumbrance purposes?

gbprime
2010-12-28, 11:59 AM
You'd have to house-rule that, but I'd allow it. By the time you have that spell available, it's not a big deal, as you pointed out.

ericgrau
2010-12-28, 12:04 PM
Wood is already 9 times lighter than steel, so I got to wondering why all ironwood (even if it's not darkwood) isn't much lighter than mithril. Then I found this:


Ironwood is a magical substance created by druids from normal wood. While remaining natural wood in almost every way, ironwood is as strong, heavy, and resistant to fire as steel.

Something tells me the spell makes the darkwood as heavy as steel. Considering that darkwood costs almost nothing and mithril costs 1,000-10,000 gp more for armor it makes a big balance difference for all but light armor.

RndmNumGen
2010-12-28, 12:21 PM
You'd have to house-rule that, but I'd allow it. By the time you have that spell available, it's not a big deal, as you pointed out.

Hmm... worth considering, at least.


Wood is already 9 times lighter than steel, so I got to wondering why all ironwood (even if it's not darkwood) isn't much lighter than mithril. Then I found this:

Something tells me the spell makes the darkwood as heavy as steel. Considering that darkwood costs almost nothing and mithril costs 1,000-10,000 gp more for armor it makes a big balance difference for all but light armor.


Maybe to balance it, making Darkironwood would require special treatments to the wood with rare oils and such that allow it to retain it's light weight, but cost as much as Mithral would?

Darrin
2010-12-28, 01:49 PM
That got be thinking... could a druid make Darkironwood weapons and armor that function as Mithral items for most intents and purposes, including making normally Medium armor count as Light armor for encumbrance purposes?

There are a few problems with this. First, ironwood only works on "normal wood", so there's an argument it wouldn't work on a special material like darkwood. While wood shape + darkwood should work fine (wood shape doesn't specify the wood has to be normal, special, or whatever), it can't create "fine detail" or a lot of "moving parts". This means tiny wooden rings woven into a "mail" (that's the other word that sometimes follows "plate" when referring to heavy armor) probably isn't possible.

But the biggest problem with ironwood is it has a limited duration, and there's no easy way to make it permanent.

Also, a 50% reduction in weight doesn't automatically mean the armor's weight category is reduced. Chitin armor (the A&EG version) weighs 50% what normal armor would weigh, but it stays the same weight category. Other physical properties (flexibility, tensile strength, shear strength, how easy is it to work, etc.) may have more to do with that than density or weight.

But really, you don't need to bother with ironwood + darkwood because there are a bunch of druid-friendly alternatives with properties similar to what you want to do:

Blue Ice (Frostburn p. 80). Increases Max Dex by 1, reduces ACP by 2 (or by 3 if masterwork), and reduces the weight category by one step. However, if you don't have some kind of cold resistance, you take a -1 penalty on Ref saves and Init checks. Darkleaf (see below) has the same stats, but doesn't require cold resistance.

Bluewood (Unapproachable East p. 58). Crafted by the Volodni (plant people), very similar to darkwood but can be used in place of metal armor. Weighs 50% of a normal item, but does not change the weight category.

Bronzewood (Eberron Campaign Setting p. 126). Weighs 10% less, and can be used to make certain armors: breastplate, banded mail, splint mail, half-plate, and full plate. Other than the -10% weight, same properties as metal armor.

Darkleaf (A&EG p. 19, Eberron Campaign Setting p. 120). Does almost everything mithral does, but cheaper. Masterwork darkleaf increases Max Dex by 1, reduces ACP by 3, and reduces the weight category of the armor by one step.

Dragoncraft (Draconomicon p. 117). Reduces the weight category like mithral, but costs +2000 GP more, and the stats aren't quite as good: Max Dex is the same, and ACP is reduced by 2. It does add some nonmagical energy resistance, but Darkleaf and Sentira are cheaper.

Duskwood Breastplate (Magic of Faerun p. 178). Faerun has a few "Yeah, it's darkwood, we just call it something different" materials, and this is another one. This one can at least be worked into a breastplate that counts as light armor, but a darkleaf breastplate has better stats.

Leafweave (Races of the Wild p. 168). The leather/studded version of darkleaf.

Sentira (Secrets of Sarlona p. 135). Exactly the same cost and properties as mithral, but according to the description it's grown from powdered crystal and has an "organic" appearance, "much like horn or shell". I can't find a definitive ruling anywhere that says whether or not this would be druid-friendly, but I can't find anything that says it's metal, either.

Wildwood (Races of the Wild p. 169). Don't even bother. Wildwood = Fail.

Zalantar (Magic of Faerun p. 180). Fancy-pants Faerunian name for darkwood, but apparently that's too priggish for those Notherners who call it "black-wood" instead. How many different names do these bozos need for the same thing? Same properties as darkwood, so it can't be used to make armor. However, duskwood (breastplate only) and bluewood can.

RndmNumGen
2010-12-28, 02:09 PM
Hmm... Didn't know about all those other materials. Anyway, this passage is what made me think that if you craft something using Ironwood, it stays Ironwood(even past the spell's normal duration):


A successful Craft check related to woodworking in conjunction with the casting of the ironwood spell enables you to make wooden items that have the strength of steel.

Also I don't see anything that says that Ironwood can only be used on 'normal wood' anywhere. Though you do make a good point about having a lighter weight not necessarily meaning that it gets all the properties of mithril, though it still should probably get a lower ACP because Darkwood Shields have a lower ACP.

ericgrau
2010-12-28, 04:05 PM
Maybe to balance it, making Darkironwood would require special treatments to the wood with rare oils and such that allow it to retain it's light weight, but cost as much as Mithral would?
Yeah sounds like a good houserule. I'd ask the DM for it.