So why doesn't...

[Dalek-K]

So V hates Belkar, but because of his/her new outlook on life I'm sure V wouldn't just destroy Belkar...

However V may remember what happened when Belkar got Owl's Wisdom put on him... He turned nice... Not just nice but the type of nice that says something along the lines of...I'm not going to hurt another living being ever again type of nice. So what would be the best way to get back at current Belkar?

1) Persist Metamagic Owls Wisdom... Keeping him nice just about all the time.

2) Multiple Wish that he had a +5 Inherent bonus to his wis.

The second one would kill the old Belkar while the first one would lock him up...

Basically this would be destroying him... In a good way (trying to make up for all those dragons...)

[Yuki Akuma]

V isn't a high enough level to do either.

[Dalek-K]

He should be getting close to the level to cast wish, maybe not 5 times in a row yet (he could create scrolls of them each day) but soon he will be.

For the persist owl's wisdom... V could just create an item that gives the wearer owl's wisdom such as a badass necklace or something (I can't remember but I'm sure the SRD has a necklace or something that does that.).

[Draconi Redfir]

probably because 1. if mean belkar dies, a lot of fans would be disapoint. and 2. Belkar is going to die soon anyways, why bother?

[Yuki Akuma]

He should be getting close to the level to cast wish, maybe not 5 times in a row yet (he could create scrolls of them each day) but soon he will be.

For the persist owl's wisdom... V could just create an item that gives the wearer owl's wisdom such as a badass necklace or something (I can't remember but I'm sure the SRD has a necklace or something that does that.).

Yes.

It's called a Periapt of Wisdom.

The bonus goes up to +6.

[Threeshades]

I think he doesn't do it because he doesn't remember it. More precisely he probably didn't even notice that Belkar actually turned good for while the spell lasted. All of his monolgue about never hurting any living creature was inner monologue so beside a white shirt and maybe his smile V didn't notice anything about Belkar.

Also the whole thing was more joke than plot and that's why it's not going to happen.

[Dr.Epic]

2. Belkar is going to die soon anyways, why bother?

Does V even know this?

[Orzel]

Plus Good Belkar is probably useless as long as Durkon or Elan are nearby and alive.

Good Belkar sounded like a pacifist. The OotS already has one of those as a "close contact". :smallwink:

[NerfTW]

Why would V care about Belkar being good? For starters, V is neutral, and has repeatedly mentioned not caring about the details of day to day good vs evil.

Second, that spell was cast once so Belkar could use scrolls. They haven't needed it again, so why would they bother?

V hasn't stated any sort of anger at Belkar's evilness, simply his personality, and V's tendency to prank him implies that he finds Belkar's antics amusing. Plus, for a good portion of the strip, Belkar had the mark of justice on him. So there was no need to reign him in with spells.

There's no good reason to be altering Belkar's personality, not to mention that his sudden clarity was a one panel joke, and not something that should be considered a viable tactic.

This falls under the same "Why did Belkar stay with the Order so long" debate. There was very little time between the two quests before they were captured by Miko. Theoretically, if Miko hadn't been there, the Order would have simply split and gone their separate ways. But since they were forced into the sequence of events that resulted in Belkar's mark of justice, there was never any time to consider the long term implications of Belkar's homicidal tendencies.

[Swordpriest]

Well, looking at the strip in question --

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0058.html

-- Belkar's niceness is only thought, not expressed. It's only in two frames, so unless V was reading his mind, there'd be no way to tell.

Looking at the thing, it's all just set up to be funny, anyway -- which it is. :smallbiggrin:

[pinwiz]

Does V even know this?

I don't think V does, but I think he meant "why would Rich bother writing this event when Belkar is about to die and do who knows what?"

[eggynack]

V isn't a high enough level to do either.
I'm pretty sure that V is able to cast 8th level spells.

[Raging Gene Ray]

S
However V may remember what happened when Belkar got Owl's Wisdom put on him... He turned nice... Not just nice but the type of nice that says something along the lines of...I'm not going to hurt another living being ever again type of nice.

Only nobody noticed. He used the scrolls, that's all V cared about. If they did, they would...and probably ruin Belkar's character for many readers far worse than simply taking him out of the story altogether.

[Grelna the Blue]

I rather doubt that it will have anything to do with V, but it has occurred to me that what happens to Belkar may not be death in the traditional sense. The Oracle said (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0572.html) "Belkar will draw his last breath--ever--before the end of the year".

I haven't looked through the threads, but I imagine many posters have already noted that there are several possible alternatives to simple death that would be congruent with that statement. Belkar could become undead and no longer breathe. Similarly, he could be turned into a construct. He could end up gender-shifted the way Roy was earlier ("his last breath...). He could be reincarnated and take a new name. Somehow, it just seems as if it would be a lot easier to say "Belkar will be dead soon" than to word it the way the Oracle did.

[Chaos rising]

If belkar turned good it would drain a lot of comedy and tension out of the comic. Therefore the giant would not do it.

[Gift Jeraff]

I rather doubt that it will have anything to do with V, but it has occurred to me that what happens to Belkar may not be death in the traditional sense. The Oracle said (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0572.html) "Belkar will draw his last breath--ever--before the end of the year".

I haven't looked through the threads, but I imagine many posters have already noted that there are several possible alternatives to simple death that would be congruent with that statement. Belkar could become undead and no longer breathe. Similarly, he could be turned into a construct. He could end up gender-shifted the way Roy was earlier ("his last breath...). He could be reincarnated and take a new name. Somehow, it just seems as if it would be a lot easier to say "Belkar will be dead soon" than to word it the way the Oracle did.
Not long for this world, IRA, birthday cake, etc. Standard protocol.

[Gnoman]

I think he doesn't do it because he doesn't remember it. More precisely he probably didn't even notice that Belkar actually turned good for while the spell lasted. All of his monolgue about never hurting any living creature was inner monologue so beside a white shirt and maybe his smile V didn't notice anything about Belkar.


If you read the strip, V hastily dismisses the spell as soon as Belkar is about to renounce violence. Seems pretty clear that V noticed.

[Nimrod's Son]

Seems pretty clear that V noticed.
Except there wasn't anything to notice, because Belkar didn't say any of it out loud.

[Kish]

No, if you read the strip, Vaarsuvius casually dismisses the spell when s/he no longer needs a Belkar who can use scrolls, coincidentally turning a Belkar who has already renounced violence back into a psychopath.

[Dr.Epic]

I don't think V does, but I think he meant "why would Rich bother writing this event when Belkar is about to die and do who knows what?"

Maybe V is metagaming this knowledge.

[Cadian 9th]

Perhaps the Order recognize that part of Belkar's fighting ability comes from his rage and hatred of things? And losing that might be crippling to the party's chances of succeeding at whatever they're doing.

From a meta perspective, Belkar is funny. Elan also finds him funny sometimes, so he might object to the forced change in Belkar.

[Kish]

Elan objected to a lack of continuing forced change in Belkar from loose cannon to prisoner in Azure City, last I saw.

[Tazar]

If they did that to him that would be borderline mind control, and extremely questionable. What gives them the right to permanently alter how somebody else acts?

[zimmerwald1915]

If they did that to him that would be borderline mind control, and extremely questionable. What gives them the right to permanently alter how somebody else acts?
Nothing, really. But if he has the power, why should he, from his personal moral standpoint, care about rights? He has no history of caring about rights.

[Tazar]

I would imagine that recent events have provided a very sharp lesson for V on the responsible use of magical power.

[MoonCat]

And according to V

I am only learning now that careful management of resources is more effective than brute force
V would probably just enjoy patronizing the hell out of the Belkster with the possibility that he would improve than lose the team's fighter to what might be considered brute force.

[Mando Knight]

I'm pretty sure that V is able to cast 8th level spells.
V has cast a grand total of one 7th level spell (outside of the Splice). If V is higher than 13th or 14th level, we haven't seen any proof of that yet.

[AsteriskAmp]

Also, Belkar hasn't done anything particularly evil/stupid/anything to V in a while (granted, the party is split). And I don't think it would do it since it either has learnt the responsibilities of magic and alignment or would find more fun to torture Belkar than to pacify him.

[Emanick]

V has cast a grand total of one 7th level spell (outside of the Splice). If V is higher than 13th or 14th level, we haven't seen any proof of that yet.
V has cast a grand total of one 8th level spell, actually. Power Word Stun. She's cast Prismatic Spray, Forcecage, Bixby's Grasping Hand, and Banishment, all of which are 7th level spells, and we know that she learned Power Word Blind. So she must be 15th level (or higher).

[AsteriskAmp]

V has cast a grand total of one 8th level spell, actually. Power Word Stun. She's cast Prismatic Spray, Forcecage, Bixby's Grasping Hand, and Banishment, all of which are 7th level spells, and we know that she learned Power Word Blind. So she must be 15th level (or higher).

It hasn't learnt it, it has it in its spellbook.
And even then it hasn't cast it.
You can in theory have wish and time stop in your spellbook and not be able to cast them since you bought the scrolls and transcribed them.

[factotum]

and we know that she learned Power Word Blind. So she must be 15th level (or higher).

In the strip where he writes Power Word: Blind in his spellbook it's made clear it's a 7th level spell. In addition, just writing it in there doesn't mean he can actually cast a spell, AFAIK.

Where did he cast Power Word: Stun, out of interest? Don't recall the occasion.

[Strife Warzeal]

In the strip where he writes Power Word: Blind in his spellbook it's made clear it's a 7th level spell. In addition, just writing it in there doesn't mean he can actually cast a spell, AFAIK.

Where did he cast Power Word: Stun, out of interest? Don't recall the occasion.

Here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0716.html) you go, in large bold pink letters too.
STUN. :tongue:

[factotum]

Wow. Is it just me, or is that the most anti-climactic 8th level spell ever? It basically made the bad guy drop a scroll and be unable to take any actions for a few seconds...

[Dalek-K]

Wow. Is it just me, or is that the most anti-climactic 8th level spell ever? It basically made the bad guy drop a scroll and be unable to take any actions for a few seconds...

Well by that level it would only take a few seconds (6 seconds a round?) to destroy most things that the part could take... So although with the current line up that spell was less than epic but if belkar and roy were around... Yeah the bag guy would have been toast.. warm buttery toast...

Turning Belkar good could still be funny, don't get me wrong he is my favorite character out of OoTS (which doesn't say much for my mental health I guess..). However even turning him into a Dr. Jekyll Mr Hyde kind of character could be fun :p

Do I want it to happen? Nah
Would it be funny to torture an evil little bastard by making him walk little old women across the street? Yep :3

Of course is it evil to give someone wisdom so they can think more clearly on their actions? This has got to beat the death penalty at least

[Souhiro]

If belkar turned good it would drain a lot of comedy and tension out of the comic. Therefore the giant would not do it.

But killing Belkar and putting him in the corner, next to Miko, would be the very same result.


Wow. Is it just me, or is [STUN] the most anti-climactic 8th level spell ever? It basically made the bad guy drop a scroll and be unable to take any actions for a few seconds...

You know, at least, it is 1D4 rounds. during that time, he can't take any actions, loses his Dex bonus to AC, and gets even a -2 to CA. To add insult to injury, drops everything he has in his hands.

Even a stunned Xykon would be a few rounds near helpless, very vulnerable to anything touch-bassed attack, unable to cast, unable to noching. But if your enemy is a weapon user, he would be at least 1D4 turns without being able to attack, and the next turn he must get his weapon from the floor, reiciving attacks of opportunity. I'm pretty sure that just STUN would make wonders against Tarquin.

[blazingshadow]

alternatively belkar could become a werewolf to gain his wisdom stat increase.
+2 wisdom and when he gets angry he can kill more efficiently. he might suffer from the LA though

[Logalmier]

Cause as far as we know, V doesn't have Persist Metamagic.

And even if he/she could cast wish, I doubt he/she would wast thousands of XP for Belkar's sake.

And even if he/she could do both, with little personal cost, I don't think that she would be inclined to really help Belkar like that. Better have him be a murderous psychopath that can be directed at enemies then a kind, caring soul.

[Dalek-K]

Cause as far as we know, V doesn't have Persist Metamagic.

And even if he/she could cast wish, I doubt he/she would wast thousands of XP for Belkar's sake.

And even if he/she could do both, with little personal cost, I don't think that she would be inclined to really help Belkar like that. Better have him be a murderous psychopath that can be directed at enemies then a kind, caring soul.

To do this would not help Belkar as he s now. Make him a better person yes, but help him? No

Its kinda like the opposite of making a paladin fall :p

[SGNenets]

Warning: wall of text below

I have to disagree with people that said V probably didn't notice that Belkar turned good with +4 wisdom. Not only is the fact that the lack of wisdom is precisely the reason for Belkar's "deviation from the norm" an aspect mentioned several times in the story, she also had immediate change in attitude and behavior to infer (and V is pretty smart, as we all know) the fact. To put a nail in the coffin, he hastily dismissed the spell afterwards, when there is absolutely no benifit in doing so and possibly even losses (e.g. they might have needed other cleric spells cast from any other scrolls Durkon might have had) if he didn't know it turned Belkar into a pacifist.

Knowing that, the reason V doesn't do it out of spite, in my opinion, is because it's won't screw Belkar over at all. What people seem to be forgetting is that even with above average wisdom, Belkar is still BELKAR. The three mental stats does NOT determine someone's core personality (otherwise there would be only 16^3, or about 4000 different people in DnD verse), thus, wise Belkar is simply Belkar who is wise enough that needless violence is counterproductive. I actually believe the whole hallucianation thing increased Belkar's wisdom by 1, as he learned to restrain himself in situations where violence is not appropriate (they even say its the "big secret wisdom"). So if anything, the new Belkar would probably thank V for "opening his eyes."

[factotum]

Even a stunned Xykon would be a few rounds near helpless, very vulnerable to anything touch-bassed attack, unable to cast, unable to noching.

I suspect Xykon has more than 151 hit points and therefore wouldn't be affected by the spell--not to mention that the spell is presumably mind-altering, which means undead are immune to it anyway!

[Logalmier]

To do this would not help Belkar as he s now. Make him a better person yes, but help him? No

Its kinda like the opposite of making a paladin fall :p

I don't know, Belkar seemed much happier then he usually is when he was turned good. It seems like turning someone into a good person would lead to that said person having a better life, not something that V is interested in giving Belkar.

[felinoel]

Why would V care about Belkar being good? For starters, V is neutral, and has repeatedly mentioned not caring about the details of day to day good vs evil.Wow, I am going to have to agree with this and state that the thread's question has been answered end of debate, granted I do not have that sort of power I am merely only stating it to emphasize how much I believe in this answer.

[Dalek-K]

So? It is something that current Belkar would HATE it and that's what counts :)

Plus it is win win if he is a better person :)

Also, V may act neutral but I think he is much more like belkar; acting the part.