OOTS #766 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Rizban]

Awesome comic. The surprise inspection thing always working bugs me. So glad to see it not go so smoothly for once. :smallbiggrin:

Tarquin is definitely becoming my new favorite villain.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Tarquin, you magnificent bastard. Good (Bad) thing they read your book.

[TheSummoner]

I'm loving Tarquin more and more!

[HalfTangible]

heh ^^ "I got a nine"

[shadowkiller]

That is an excellent handbook for all guards.

[MoonCat]

Help! I'm repeatedly clicking to go to oots latest, but all I see is #765, is this just me? I can reach all of the site except for the new strip!
Edit: I can see the new page, never mind
Edit:Now I can't see it again, is this just me?
All fixed, never mind! It appears that only comic #765 does not recognize the update for some reason, the rest do. And man, Tarquin is annoying and brilliant and pure AWESOME

[Nevitan]

Oh Tarquin, that's just not fair.

[137beth]

Why didn't Haley just say "That book is a decoy, to fool you into thinking there are no surprise inspections, so that when we don have a surprise inspection, you will be more surprised!"?

[Lycan 01]

Heh, even with the +5 boots, he still rolled a 4. :smallbiggrin:

And that Guard Rulebook sounds like something you'd read in that big "Evil Overlord List" floating around the internet. I wouldn't be surprised if that's actually what Tarquin used for reference. XD

[Nu]

The guard handbook is genius.

[dogfish44]

And Tarquin proves how Genre Savvy he is.
:cool:

And nice reference to the past!

[Ted The Bug]

I love Tarquin. And a full page of that manual would be pretty cool bonus content for the book. :smallwink:

[Gaius]

That is a spectacular manual. :smallbiggrin: Oh, that Tarquin. Horrible and wonderful, all at the same time.

The lines about bush-sounds are pretty good, too. Though I'd imagine one who knew could work with them by throwing a rock straight down. :smalltongue:

[Lateral]

Why didn't Haley just say "That book is a decoy, to fool you into thinking there are no surprise inspections, so that when we don have a surprise inspection, you will be more surprised!"?

GOT A 4 on her bluff check, I guess. :smalltongue:

[the humanity]

Elan, you are a wonderful creation.

[blackjack217]

made of win

[Forrestfire]

That book... :smallbiggrin:

[Yendor]

The flaw in the Sound in the Bushes section is the assumption there are bushes in the first place. What are you doing with convenient hiding places around your prison?

[ShenCS]

Yeah Tarquin has definitely been reading from the Evil Overlord's List. Hey, good advice is good advice - even from bad people.

[Roland Itiative]

Now Tarquin doesn't even need to appear in the comic for me to love his character even more :smalltongue:

Great strip, as aways.

[FoE]

An intellegient guard! Didn't see that one coming.

[zimmerwald1915]

Heh, even with the +5 boots, he still rolled a 4. :smallbiggrin:

And that Guard Rulebook sounds like something you'd read in that big "Evil Overlord List" floating around the internet. I wouldn't be surprised if that's actually what Tarquin used for reference. XD
He not only reads and abides by the Evil Overlord List, but distributes copies of it, suitably edited, to his Legions of Terror.

[hajo]

I would like to have a closer look at that poster on the fence in panel 2...

[Allan Surgite]

Tarquin's a spoilsport.

[KillItWithFire]

Now that's preperation for ya. Nice job on Tarquin's part. Am I the only one who is bothered by silver elven boots because it makes them look like plate?

[Taekwondodo]

I love Tarquin so much. It's just a shame about our irreconcilable alignment differences...

[Saph]

An intellegient guard! Didn't see that one coming.

I love that movie.

And awesome strip. I laughed out loud when I read Tarquin's Tips. :smallbiggrin:

[Dr.Epic]

I got a 9!!! A new twist on an old classic!!!

Also, someone should add those to the evil overlord list.

[MoonCat]

I would like to have a closer look at that poster on the fence in panel 2...

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0741.html

Your wish is my command, master

EDIT: And all those other people were ninja'd:smallbiggrin:

[SPoD]

I would like to have a closer look at that poster on the fence in panel 2...

It's the Gladiatorial Games poster from #741 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0741.html).

[Lemur Bear]

I really need a copy of that manual. Even out my bookshelf.

[Mr. Scaly]

:smallbiggrin:
Just :smallbiggrin:
Nothing else will do

[Lycan 01]

I would like to have a closer look at that poster on the fence in panel 2...

It was shown several panels back, when Roy and Belkar were first told they were first dragged into the gladiator training and stuff. I forget the exact strip, but it was when Roy was thinking they'd have plenty of time to work out a plan, only for the poster to reveal they had no time at all...

[Burner28]

Tarquin:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

[Woodsman]

This comic is filled to the brim with sheer win.

Tarquin continues to climb the ladder of "My Favorite Villains Ever."

[CrimsonAngel]

Easily one of my favorite comics. Thank you, desert arc. :smallbiggrin:


It's the Gladiatorial Games poster from #741 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0741.html).

Oh thank you! I was just about to freehand a helmet like on the poster, and now I have a reference.

[Burner28]

O boy.. The tension.. So any theory of what's going to happen anyone:smallamused:?

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Tarquin is getting close to being my favourite villain in the strip! And that is some feat.

[Grelna the Blue]

I would like to have a closer look at that poster on the fence in panel 2...

No problem--check out the last panel in strip #741 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0741.html).

Edit: Ninja'd. However, to add value, anyone think the games are where Belkar will "draw his last breath--ever", possibly at Roy's hands?

[MoonCat]

I vaguely remember a comic called Breaking Up is Hard To Do, but I can't remember when it was, or what was inside. Could someone link to it?
EDIT Thank you Grelna!

[SGNenets]

As I started reading this, I was thinking about posting things like it being nice to see the Boots of Elvenkind again etc....

but the end just left me laughing so hard it made me forget everything else I was gonna say. Bravo, Giant!

[Tazar]

Tarquin continues to impress, and Elan continues to fail.

Can Tarquin kill Elan and take his place?

[Grelna the Blue]

I vaguely remember a comic called Breaking Up is Hard To Do, but I can't remember when it was, or what was inside. Could someone link to it?

#277 The Crayons of Time: Breaking Up is Hard to Do (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html)

[lordyoshi01]

I find it hilarious that while I was rereading the whole comic, I noticed the update just after reading comic #90.

[Grygus]

I vaguely remember a comic called Breaking Up is Hard To Do, but I can't remember when it was, or what was inside. Could someone link to it?
I assumed it was a reference to the song (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaking_Up_Is_Hard_to_Do_%28song%29).

[Burner28]

Tarquin continues to impress, and Elan continues to fail.

Can Tarquin kill Elan and take his place?

Wait? What? Why?

[Klytus]

And The Giant knocks it out of the park. Again. If he keeps this up, we'll run out of balls.
.
.
.
What?

[Tazar]

Wait? What? Why?

Because Elan is a useless party member, never contributes, causes more problems than he solves, and I strongly dislike him as a character while I LOVE Tarquin?

[MammonAzrael]

*high-five*

Awesomeness.

[Eldritch Knight]

Who left their copy of the Evil Overlord list near where the NPCs could find it? If you did it deliberately, THANK YOU! If it was an accident, we will find you, and your execution will be nigh!

[Psyren]

Geez Elan, isn't Move Silently a class skill for bards? That massive Int penalty must be playing hob with your skill points. :smallsigh:

[Burner28]

Tarquin continues to impress, and Elan continues to fail.

Can Tarquin kill Elan and take his place?

I kinda doubt the Order of the Stick would let Tarquin kill Elan and/or join their team, being, you know, an Evil Overlord. There is also the fact that Elan is going to get his happy ending and so has the Plot Armour. Besides, the Order of the Stick is already dealing with Belkar the hot-tempered sociopath.

[Tazar]

I kinda doubt the Order of the Stick would let Tarquin kill Elan and/or join their team, being, you know, an Evil Overlord. There is also the fact that Elan is going to get his happy ending and so has the Plot Armour. Besides, the Order of the Stick is already dealing with Belkar the hot-tempered sociopath.

I'm praying Elan's happy ending is the Chaotic Good afterlife, personally.
It'd certainly be a happy ending for him, so this does not exempt him from dying, and as said, I find Tarquin to be a far, far more compelling character. Elan's "lol hijinks" just don't appeal to me.

[G-Man Graves]

I kinda doubt the Order of the Stick would let Tarquin kill Elan and/or join their team, being, you know, an Evil Overlord. There is also the fact that Elan is going to get his happy ending and so has the Plot Armour. Besides, the Order of the Stick is already dealing with Belkar the hot-tempered sociopath.

All the more reason to rid themselves of the idiot. I see it this way.

1. Chaotic Good afterlife will no doubt be happy, hence a happy ending.
2. They're already used to dealing with evil people, and Tarquin is actually intelligent, plus would put the resources of his mega empire at his disposal.
3. The fact that they already have Belkar should mean they have even LESS tolerance for the Chaotic Moron.

[Orzel]

C'mon Elan. Put a point in MS. Lol.

[FerhagoRosewood]

That "get to know" the pictures of the guards is another worrisome cliche that shouldn't work but does.

Tarquin is quickly becoming my favorite of all the villains.

[Burner28]

I'm praying Elan's happy ending is the Chaotic Good afterlife, personally.
It'd certainly be a happy ending for him, so this does not exempt him from dying, and as said, I find Tarquin to be a far, far more compelling character. Elan's "lol hijinks" just don't appeal to me.

That still leaves the issue of the fact that there is no way that the Order of the Stick would let Tarquin into their group as they aren't naive like Elan. Especially if Tarquin kills Elan. Not to mention that although Tarquin doesn't care about doing the right thing (like his buddies), Tarquin still cares about Elan so that is out of the question.



2. They're already used to dealing with evil people, and Tarquin is actually intelligent, plus would put the resources of his mega empire at his disposal.
3. The fact that they already have Belkar should mean they have even LESS tolerance for the Chaotic Moron.

The important different between Belkar and Tarquin is that Belkar is an idiot who is able to be manipulated into doing the right thing by Roy. Roy cannot however control Tarquin as he is way too smart to be manipulated. Besides, Tarquin is barely anything more than a monstrous Evil Antagonist to Roy whislt Belkar is a psychotic dog that can be put to good use once he's on a leash- In other words an Evil Protagonist

[Lateral]

I'm gonna say one more thing:

Geez, Elan, grow a Move Silently. :smalltongue:

[Seraphem]

OMG!, Tarquin....has not only read, but understood and FOLLOWS the Evil Overlord List. Truly he is the most dangerous foe of all time, not to mention jsut plain greatest.

[Gray Mage]

Awesome comic. :smallbiggrin:

By the way, I think there might be a typo in panel 7, the second guard says "it does look exactly like him". Shouldn't it be "he does look exactly like him"?

[Trixie]

Wait, they have highlighting markers invented already? :smallconfused:

[Forum Explorer]

Love this comic and the best part is the Tarquin's Tips. I'm glad that somebody actrually reads that list from time to time and puts it to good use.

I can't wait for the scean where they free the monsters from the gladiator's arena where they then all rush over to Tarquin for some pets and to be reassured that their a good boy. :smallbiggrin:

[Tazar]

That still leaves the issue of the fact that there is no way that the Order of the Stick would let Tarquin into their group as they aren't naive like Elan. Especially if Tarquin kills Elan. Not to mention that although Tarquin doesn't care about doing the right thing (like his buddies), Tarquin still cares about Elan so that is out of the question.



The important different between Belkar and Tarquin is that Belkar is an idiot who is able to be manipulated into doing the right thing by Roy. Roy cannot however control Tarquin as he is way too smart to be manipulated. Besides, Tarquin is barely anything more than a monstrous Evil Antagonist to Roy whislt Belkar is a psychotic dog that can be put to good use once he's on a leash- In other words an Evil Protagonist

I'm not saying it will happen; I'm saying I *wish* it would.

Tarquin is a far more three-dimensional and interesting character, and I mourn the fact that we will eventually have to see a great deal less of him while Elan will remain a prominent character.

[Burner28]

I'm not saying it will happen; I'm saying I *wish* it would.

Tarquin is a far more three-dimensional and interesting character, and I mourn the fact that we will eventually have to see a great deal less of him while Elan will remain a prominent character.

Well.... consider your wishes crushed

[olthar]

ahh Tarquin, you must be a contributor to the evil overlord list (http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html). Damn you and your genre savyness (translation: you are awesome)

[G-Man Graves]

The important different between Belkar and Tarquin is that Belkar is an idiot who is able to be manipulated into doing the right thing by Roy. Roy cannot however control Tarquin as he is way too smart to be manipulated. Besides, Tarquin is barely anything more than a monstrous Evil Antagonist to Roy whislt Belkar is a psychotic dog that can be put to good use once he's on a leash- In other words an Evil Protagonist

I was focusing more on the difference between Belkar and Elan. Both are Chaotic Stupid, but Belkar can actually pull his weight, and more, when it comes to actually contributing. He kills enemies by the truckload, saves Haley by defeating the major NPCs that almost killed her, can actually move silently, and is cunning enough to actually plan ahead. Elan... occasionally kills an NPC? Gives the party the occasional buff, and get's damn lucky. Kind of a gulf between the two.

[Burner28]

I was focusing more on the difference between Belkar and Elan. Both are Chaotic Stupid, but Belkar can actually pull his weight, and more, when it comes to actually contributing. He kills enemies by the truckload, saves Haley by defeating the major NPCs that almost killed her, can actually move silently, and is cunning enough to actually plan ahead. Elan... occasionally kills an NPC? Gives the party the occasional buff, and get's damn lucky. Kind of a gulf between the two.

Actually Elan is Chaotic, Good and Stupid separately, you know

[Tazar]

Well.... consider your wishes crushed

At least I can still cling to hope that Elan's going to die, right? :smallwink:

You do have to admit that Elan is essentially useless in a combat situation.

[Burner28]

At least I can still cling to hope that Elan's going to die, right? :smallwink:

NO:tongue::wink:

[Acero]

I like the Tarquin's tips



Tarquin's Tips

Pictures of all the members of the prison staf are posted in the lunge. Get to know them!


so much for the 'knock them out and take uniforms' strategy...

[Wadoka]

In this milieu, Tarquin probably authored the "Rules for Evil Overlords"

But at the same time, he appears to be in violation of at least two of the rules.

1) My Legions of Terror will not wear, as part of their uniform, any sort of headgear which conceals part or all of their face (so Heroes cannot knock out a handy group of guards and sneak in by stealing their uniforms and pretending to be members of my Legion of Terror)

2) When you have the Hero(s) in your grasp, you don't soliloquize, you don't play around, you KILL them. On the spot. Without elaboration.

:)

[Tazar]

NO:tongue::wink:

CG Afterlife is indeed a happy ending.

Can't see how this is disputable in any way. Roy sure was happy in his afterlife.

[rewinn]

"I love you, so I'm not going to answer that" is one of the most important phrases in any long-term relationship.:smallbiggrin:


When you have the Hero(s) in your grasp, you don't soliloquize, you don't play around, you KILL them. On the spot. Without elaboration.
Normally an excellent rule BUT recall that Tarqiun's plan INCLUDES being defeated by Elan. Just not right away.

[silvadel]

You are forgetting something VERY IMPORTANT that trumps what you see in that manual. *I* am *NOT* Tarquin.

You are also forgetting something else likely written later on....

Cliches are meant to be broken. Lampshades a plus.

But go ahead -- if you want to take us to MY father -- I will not stop you -- BUT there are much better ways to achieve a career change.

(Haley -- did I make my intimidation check?)

[Onyavar]

Wow. Big grin.

This is the first time I see an Evil Overlord who actually read the Evil Overlord List.

Tarquin, you rock!

[iowaforever]

:elan: (very Loudly) "Besides, I got a 9 this time! " this made my day

[Golbez]

I can't stop laughing.:smallbiggrin:

[Megawizard]

This is the first time I see an Evil Overlord who actually read the Evil Overlord List.

Tarquin, you rock!

I would say what's really impressive it's that he got his minions to read it as well!

On the other hand, why didn't Haley just went SNEAK ATTACK on those two guards? She already had shown little care for their lives before, and taking them down on a suprise attack would definetely be better than give them a chance to raise the alarm and bring even more guards after them.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

I'm going to have to print out the Evil Overlord's list and post it on my desk again! :biggrin:

[Swordpriest]

Note to self if I ever get transported interdimensionally into the Stickverse: when trying to sneak into an Evil Overlord's dungeon/prison/gladiatorial cells, don't try to bluff or disguise your way past the guards. Instead, just creep up on 'em and slit their throats from ear to ear, while ignoring the furor of "morally justified" on the forums beyond the fourth wall. :smallwink::smallwink:

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Great shout-back to the early strips, and nice hat-tip to evil overlord lists. It's true, you gotta figure that Tarquin is that genre-savvy.

[StClair]

Curse his Genre Savvy.

[Kareasint]

The tip concerning the keys is very useful also. I figure the book has a title also:

"Guarding for Dummies."

[aart lover]

his...his awsomeness...it's... IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAAAND!!!!

[theinsulabot]

for the life of me I cant figure out why they didnt just kill the guards out of hand and be done with it.

[Sengoku]

Lol Tarquin must have contributed to write the Manual of the Evil Overlord :D

[Maryring]

I would say what's really impressive it's that he got his minions to read it as well!

On the other hand, why didn't Haley just went SNEAK ATTACK on those two guards? She already had shown little care for their lives before, and taking them down on a suprise attack would definetely be better than give them a chance to raise the alarm and bring even more guards after them.

On the contrary. When she and V freed the slaves, Haley took care not to kill the guards. She only killed guards when she was forced to due to having one lethal weapon and being surrounded by enemies with no chance of sneak attack.

[MoonCat]

The typical OoTS reaction to any danger they're not expecting is to run away, although I agree, they could take out those guards easily. Maybe Rich is just scared that the taking of a human life will be thought of as worse than killing a hobgoblin. Cue the outraged posters claiming Haley just crossed the Moral Event Horizon. :smallbiggrin:

[Kgw]

It's nice to see a villain who goes by the manual. :smallbiggrin:

[AshDesert]

This is what happens when your villain actually reads the Evil Overlord List.

[Conuly]

I agree, they could take out those guards easily.

Yeah, unless they've been taking lessons from Redcloak and pull of a Dancing Lights or similar alarm system.

[2xMachina]

... So Elan has a 0 mod in Move Silently?

Got a 4, +5 from boots. 0 from ranks + Dex - ACP

Best not to try then...

[HalfTangible]

... So Elan has a 0 mod in Move Silently?

Got a 4, +5 from boots. 0 from ranks + Dex - ACP

Best not to try then...

Or he's got a +3 and got a natural 1 both times :smallamused::smalltongue:

[Warren Dew]

I didn't buy the last compendium, but I would definitely buy a copy of Tarquin's manual.


Can Tarquin kill Elan and take his place?

Maybe we could get a prequel on Tarquin's adventuring group?

[Crisis21]

Wow. Tarquin read the evil dictator list.

[theinsulabot]

Hai Gaiz, Haz N 1 Ref-for-rentzed Tarquin Knowing Teh Eval Overlords List Yet?????

[Dusk Eclipse]

..... wow I never though I would seem a work that actually used (not just referenced) the evil Overlord list.

Bravo Giant, you never cease to amaze me.

[tiercel]

Indeed, Tarquin manages to become yet more awesome even off-camera, by not only being Genre Savvy but instilling that on down the ranks. This is a man who has taken the Evil Overlord list to heart!

Honestly, it's getting to the point where I'm really beginning to wonder if Elan *can* defeat him in a way that seems plausible and not contrived (much less awesome), given how much Sheer Awesome that Tarquin has been building up ever since appearing. OTOH, this is The Giant we are talking about....

[HalfTangible]

Indeed, Tarquin manages to become yet more awesome even off-camera, by not only being Genre Savvy but instilling that on down the ranks. This is a man who has taken the Evil Overlord list to heart!

Honestly, it's getting to the point where I'm really beginning to wonder if Elan *can* defeat him in a way that seems plausible and not contrived (much less awesome), given how much Sheer Awesome that Tarquin has been building up ever since appearing. OTOH, this is The Giant we are talking about....

I don't think Elan can win through cliched, contrived methods either given the whole evil overlord list thing being passed through the ranks.

[averagejoe]

I rarely post in discussion threads, but I just wanted to say I really liked this one. It keeps delightfully subverting your expectations, and the mix of lighthearted/funny and tense/serious works very well. I'm not quite sure what it was about the strip, but I was just really tickled by this one.

[mucco]

Hai Gaiz, Haz N 1 Ref-for-rentzed Tarquin Knowing Teh Eval Overlords List Yet?????

This.

I love how the word "Ever." is highlighted twice. Another one in the long tradition of cool hidden details, I guess.

[Calmness]

Those are some ugly boots.

[Warren Dew]

Honestly, it's getting to the point where I'm really beginning to wonder if Elan *can* defeat him in a way that seems plausible and not contrived (much less awesome), given how much Sheer Awesome that Tarquin has been building up ever since appearing. OTOH, this is The Giant we are talking about....

I don't think Tarquin is going to get defeated. Just like Miko was a good aligned antagonist, Tarquin is an evil aligned ally.

[the_tick_rules]

Curse metagaming baddies,ruining the PC's fun.

[Traab]

Heh, even with the +5 boots, he still rolled a 4. :smallbiggrin:

And that Guard Rulebook sounds like something you'd read in that big "Evil Overlord List" floating around the internet. I wouldn't be surprised if that's actually what Tarquin used for reference. XD

Yeah, a version of most of the readable stuff in that guide comes from the evil overlord list. Good god thatll make a sneaky breakout tough. Like they say in Oceans 11, "there are two ways to rob a casino" In Haley and Elan's case, they should have picked strong through the door, as all the sneaky methods are likely covered by the ultimate evil warlord.

It was mentioned by others that they dont see how elan could ever defeat daddy with his sheer level of mastery of the art of being an evil overlord. This is true. But he DOES have one weakness. His enemy is his son, and he doesnt want to end his life unless its exceptionally epic. You know, a massive battle between good and evil, a flaming sword duel on the parapets of his castle as both armies look on in awe, that sort of thing. This means that elan can try and fail as many times as he has to, until he feels ready to make his big move as his dad wont kill him out of hand.

That being said, elan WONT be able to beat his dad in a normal hero style. He will have to use various cliches as foils and use their assured failures to maneuver Tarquin into position for the fatal blow. Said fatal blow should be something REALLY unexpected and outside the standards of story telling, for example, force him to lead his army into battle, Elan challenges him to a duel surrounded by both sides. A sort of epic generals duel to avoid a blood bath type of thing. We have all seen it happen in movies or read it in books. When He shows up, realizing that this duel is the epic showdown that will either elave him a king, or leave him a legend, and prepares to fight.

At that point The Order of the Stick swarms Tarquinn, killing him in a full on Ides of March style of backstabbery. He ISNT that great of a fighter, after all, Elan did fairly well against him on his own. He would get slaughtered in two rounds tops by combination of a sneak attack arrow to the spine from haley, great cleave from roy, rampant back stabbage by belkar, tentacles of forced intrusions from V, etc etc etc. Heroic? No. But thats the point. No legendary battle with the hero, no final stand, just a swarmed under general getting killed in front of his men before they can do anything to stop it. No legend for you dad. Just an unmarked grave in an unremembered ditch somewhere in the middle of a battlefield.

[BlackDragonKing]

Oh, wow. If it wasn't for the fact that he had a son, Tarquin would be the first and foremost graduate of the Evil Overlord List school of villainy.

He may not be as powerful as Xykon, but damn if he's not astonishingly good at what he does...

[Felixc-91]

No problem--check out the last panel in strip #741 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0741.html).

Edit: Ninja'd. However, to add value, anyone think the games are where Belkar will "draw his last breath--ever", possibly at Roy's hands?while i agree that Belkar will die in the arena, i think it will be by the hand of the lad in the bottom far right corner (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0736.html)

[Tobimaro]

GOT A 4 on her bluff check, I guess. :smalltongue:

Well, she had a circumstance penalty. :elan:


Wow. Big grin.

This is the first time I see an Evil Overlord who actually read the Evil Overlord List.

Tarquin, you rock!

But he is currently violating rule #18.


I will not have a son. Although his laughably under-planned attempt to usurp power would easily fail, it would provide a fatal distraction at a crucial point in time.

This might be his downfall. :smallamused:

[Felixc-91]

noooooo, that's a bad way to work around the surprise inspection maneuver! its not that hard, all inspections are to be made by a registered inspector. post their images, their names, and their height, weight, and age in the break room and guard house. have all people entering scanned with true seeing to stop illusionists. make a magic item doing exactly that if you have to. inspections are an important way to insure that the guards not standing in front of the cameras/scry sensors are doing what their supposed to.

[Grelna the Blue]

while i agree that Belkar will die in the arena, i think it will be by the hand of the lad in the bottom far right corner (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0736.html)

Hm, you could be right. I dunno, though. It would match the text, but I don't quite see the point of the Belkster's recent character "development" if he was to be killed by some random no-name.

[LuPuWei]

Tarquin displays yet one more level of awesome.

I wonder how it would have gone if Elan had just walked up to the guards and said confidently," Yo, I'm Tarquin's son and there are some prisoners in there that I think would look better on the outside. Obey me lest you feel the wrath of my father."

They keep missing the nature of the game they need to play to beat Tarquin.

[Felixc-91]

Hm, you could be right. I dunno, though. It would match the text, but I don't quite see the point of the Belkster's recent character "development" if he was to be killed by some random no-name. because it would be hilarious? he dies because he fails to listen to the man explaining genera convention to him in no uncertain terms and then goes on to repeatedly do exactly what the man said would get him killed.

[Killer Angel]

This is what happens when your villain actually reads the Evil Overlord List.

Actually, Tarquin IS one of the writers of the Evil Overlords List... :smallbiggrin:

[Prowl]

And I was just telling a non-computer-literate friend about the "Evil Overlord" list the other night. Looks like Tarquin has read it and perhaps added a few items to the list.

[Laws of Chaos]

Tarquin is such a genius! I love it!
Plus, I love how we have a throw back to strip 90. Elan is so fail, even with his +5 boots lol

[Rob Roy]

Tarquin proves that he is a really genre savvy villain. Awesome!

[Phexar]

Well, Elan didn't shout "I got a 4", so he actually did do exactly as Haley asked him. :smalltongue: I loved the 'Identity' remarks and Tarquin's manual too.

[Korias]

OMG!, Tarquin....has not only read, but understood and FOLLOWS the Evil Overlord List. Truly he is the most dangerous foe of all time, not to mention jsut plain greatest.

You stole the words right out of my mouth. Or fingers since this is typed.

Just... Damn. This is by far the greatest comic I have seen in a long time. :smallbiggrin:

[Agi Hammerthief]

that handbook is just cruel :smallbiggrin:

but he is violating point one on the Evil Overlord List:

face concealing helmets

[fluffybunny]

Good old man Tarquin, he's just full of class! And sass!

Please Giant, please publish a full spread from the jailor's manual!

Or atleast a new years special with Gen. Tarquin reading from the Evil Overlord!

/Fluffy

[faustin]

I know the villain is usually more complex and interesting than the hero, but... DAMN!:smallcool::smallcool:
"Sound in the brushes..." Just imagine Tarquin as a boss in Tenchu. It would be a nightmare for both Rikimaru and Ayame.

[abbott.e]

I love "I don't even know that spell".
And shouldn't Tarquin's manual be in alphabetical order? After all he is Lawful Evil, the natural alignment of bureaucrats and librarians.

[deworde]

And shouldn't Tarquin's manual be in alphabetical order? After all he is Lawful Evil, the natural alignment of bureaucrats and librarians.

NonononoNO. Tarquin is Smart Lawful Evil.
Therefore his manual is carefully organised by job role, rank and comes with highlighters for the important bits.

Alphabetical order is for indexes and dictionaries.

[dogfish44]

Just noticed something - That in Panel 8, how overly specific can Haley be?


And I'm sure she's done something like that before.... anyone else remember?

[deworde]

In this milieu, Tarquin probably authored the "Rules for Evil Overlords"

But at the same time, he appears to be in violation of at least two of the rules.

1) My Legions of Terror will not wear, as part of their uniform, any sort of headgear which conceals part or all of their face (so Heroes cannot knock out a handy group of guards and sneak in by stealing their uniforms and pretending to be members of my Legion of Terror)

2) When you have the Hero(s) in your grasp, you don't soliloquize, you don't play around, you KILL them. On the spot. Without elaboration.

:)

Yes, but in his defence, his plan rather depends on people not noticing that the same soldiers keep conquering them every 5 years...

But notice he did manage to achieve
"As an alternative to not having children, I will have lots of children. My sons will be too busy jockeying for position to ever be a real threat, and the daughters will all sabotage each other's attempts to win the hero" without going through the failstate of

"I will not have a son. Although his laughably under-planned attempt to usurp power would easily fail, it would provide a fatal distraction at a crucial point in time."

[Lorin]

Oh, this one is pure gold. Competent guards? Something new.

[Kareasint]

NonononoNO. Tarquin is Smart Lawful Evil.
Therefore his manual is carefully organised by job role, rank and comes with highlighters for the important bits.

Alphabetical order is for indexes and dictionaries.

Like I said, the book is probably entitled "Guarding for Dummies."

It could also be "Minions 101 or How to get that Raise that you were looking for."

[Kaytara]

And this is why I love genre savvy villains. XD

[Anterean]

While the manual brings my favourite villain to even high levels of awesomeness, I feel have to mentioned that Haley's reply to Elan did bring out a chuckle as well.

"I love you, so I am not going to answer that"

[ref]

Dang, so close.

[Terbovus]

Absolutely great... :smallsmile:

[Gnoman]

The typical OoTS reaction to any danger they're not expecting is to run away, although I agree, they could take out those guards easily. Maybe Rich is just scared that the taking of a human life will be thought of as worse than killing a hobgoblin. Cue the outraged posters claiming Haley just crossed the Moral Event Horizon. :smallbiggrin:

I assumed that it's pure practicality. Evil or not, they have to deal with this Empire. Hoping T will overlook a few number of escaped kitchen slaves (easily replaced, and it can be assumed that he'll focus on THAT they escaped instead of HOW) or an old prisoner that he'd probably forgotten he had, especially if you're sleeping with his kid, is not unreasonable. Once you start killing guards, you FORCE him to notice you, and the odds of screwing things up increase dramatically.

[Blaznak]

Wow. Very fun. I enjoyed seeing a villain with sensibilities :) It reminds me a little bit of that old website that had tips on how to be supervillain.

Also, i loved "Identify yourselves" "I don't know that spell."

Too classic!

[Ninja Dragon]

Man, Tarquin is just awesome. When I saw the manual the first think I thought was "HE READ THE EVIL OVERLORD LIST".

Actually, I'm starting to think he was the one who wrote the list.

Btw, in what strip did Elan yell "I got a 4"?

[Swordpriest]

I assumed that it's pure practicality. Evil or not, they have to deal with this Empire. Hoping T will overlook a few number of escaped kitchen slaves (easily replaced, and it can be assumed that he'll focus on THAT they escaped instead of HOW) or an old prisoner that he'd probably forgotten he had, especially if you're sleeping with his kid, is not unreasonable. Once you start killing guards, you FORCE him to notice you, and the odds of screwing things up increase dramatically.

I doubt he'd care a fig for a couple of disposable mooks. Haley already slaughtered a bunch during their initial capture scene, and see also the statement about "can't make an omelette", and "wait a minute, who counts as a somebody?". Is this really a guy who's going to be bothered by his son killing some low-ranking nobodies?

[HalfTangible]

I doubt he'd care a fig for a couple of disposable mooks. Haley already slaughtered a bunch during their initial capture scene, and see also the statement about "can't make an omelette", and "wait a minute, who counts as a somebody?". Is this really a guy who's going to be bothered by his son killing some low-ranking nobodies?

Not because they're people, no. But killing off your servants is, basically, defying you, something evil overlords tend to take offense to. And Tarquin was willing to let Haley's killing of his servants aside because she was with Elan, his son.

[Gnoman]

More to the point, if guards start showing up dead around the prison, the prisoners (most of whom have combat skills) are likelier to rise up, threatening the whole system.

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

Haley's lies get them in trouble again.

[MoonCat]

Btw, in what strip did Elan yell "I got a 4"?
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0090.html

Number #90


EDIT: You're welcome!

[Ninja Dragon]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0090.html

Number #90

Thx a lot.

[Warren Dew]

while i agree that Belkar will die in the arena, i think it will be by the hand of the lad in the bottom far right corner (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0736.html)

I wish. I somehow doubt Belkar is destined for quite such an ignominious fate. I'd love to be wrong, though.

[kierthos]

Tarquin, you continue to be my hero.

Er... villain.

You know what I mean.

[Burner28]

Maybe Rich is just scared that the taking of a human life will be thought of as worse than killing a hobgoblin. Cue the outraged posters claiming Haley just crossed the Moral Event Horizon. :smallbiggrin:

Speciesm? Aw... Come on! People are better than that! They aren't going to say that Haley is evil for killing humans in self defense.

[Mordaenor]

Oh Elan, even your crappy roles occur at dramatically appropriate moments. :smallbiggrin: And to get the exact same role both times.

[Porthos]

Speciesm? Aw... Come on! People are better than that! They aren't goping to say that Haley is evil for killing humans in self defense.

Shall I point you to the posts where that exact argument has been made? :smalltongue:

[Warren Dew]

Speciesm? Aw... Come on! People are better than that! They aren't going to say that Haley is evil for killing humans in self defense.
Of course they'll defend Haley! She's human, after all. Not like those other evil species!

[Crystalline]

Man, I saw the "I got a nine joke coming" and it was still hilarious.

Those are the elvinest boots ever!

[Hydro]

I love Tarquin.

But the "I got a nine!" joke was a little too tiresome for me, personally.

[JonestheSpy]

An intellegient guard! Didn't see that one coming.

Truly, Titan A.E. is one of the best and most unjustly ignored films evar.


You're lying! He's not a slave and you're not traders. He doesn't carry himself like a slave! Look at the way he stands... probably ex-military. Akrennian traders always threaten before they ask a favor, it's tradition. And YOUR robes are made out of bedspreads.

[The Pilgrim]

Come on, Elan, now let's call an Illusion of two female guards.

Complete the Circle.

[Nevereatcars]

Ah, crap, Tarq's got a copy of the Evil Overlord List. Probably memorized it by now.

[Rob Roy]

Ah, crap, Tarq's got a copy of the Evil Overlord List. Probably memorized it by now.
Everyone as known that he memorized from his first moment of awesome, it's not new. :smallwink:

[Xavon]

I think Tarquin is cheating (or at least min-maxing to an unfair degree). Just because he took the Genre Savvy and Improved Genre Savvy feats doesn't mean he can share them with his minions.

Besides, if you never have surprise inspections, what is to prevent the evil, lazy guards from doing evil, lazy things? If they know when the inspection is, they can clean up in time. It's just sloppy, and encourages bad habits.

A better policy would be to only hold surprise inspections personally, verifiable with True Sight...

[Lynn]

In this milieu, Tarquin probably authored the "Rules for Evil Overlords"

But at the same time, he appears to be in violation of at least two of the rules.

1) My Legions of Terror will not wear, as part of their uniform, any sort of headgear which conceals part or all of their face (so Heroes cannot knock out a handy group of guards and sneak in by stealing their uniforms and pretending to be members of my Legion of Terror)

2) When you have the Hero(s) in your grasp, you don't soliloquize, you don't play around, you KILL them. On the spot. Without elaboration.

:)

-1 When you know someone you can recognise them only by they features below the eyes. The mask does not conceal the nose, cheekbones, mouth, chin... If you can name each member off the staff you can spot an intruder even if he wears an eye-concealing helmet

-2 There is a great differences between a monologue to an enemy you are about to kill and a father-son discussion even if said son just turned against you.T never intended to kill Elan on the first place.

[shadowkiller]

I think Tarquin is cheating (or at least min-maxing to an unfair degree). Just because he took the Genre Savvy and Improved Genre Savvy feats doesn't mean he can share them with his minions.

Besides, if you never have surprise inspections, what is to prevent the evil, lazy guards from doing evil, lazy things? If they know when the inspection is, they can clean up in time. It's just sloppy, and encourages bad habits.

A better policy would be to only hold surprise inspections personally, verifiable with True Sight...

Why do you need surprise inspections when you can do random scryings of the prison.

[rewinn]

Why do you need surprise inspections when you can do random scryings of the prison.

Or even non-random inspections. Reserving Random Inspections for the detection of adventurers sneaking in to wreak havoc is HUGE.

The cost is low: limiting the Evil Overlord to inspections conducted on a regular basis, but that probably good enough since it's not as if the health of the prisoners is a huge concern; they're destined for the arena anyway. And Lawful Evil Overlords probably LIKE regular inspections.

[HalfTangible]

Why would you leave a prison where you occasionally ransom off your prison scryable?

[shadowkiller]

Why would you leave a prison where you occasionally ransom off your prison scryable?

Well it is rather hard to get a large area like a prison unscryable, maybe a single cell block with private sanctum cast on it for those prisoners but short of epic you won't get a whole prison blocked.

[Traab]

I wish. I somehow doubt Belkar is destined for quite such an ignominious fate. I'd love to be wrong, though.

I agree, the whole gladatorial battle thing will just turn out like that one strip,

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0439.html

[Felixc-91]

Why do you need surprise inspections when you can do random scryings of the prison. do the gaurds know about the random scrying? if so, i like it. most of the gaurds will not be able to tell whether or not they are being watched and will have to preform at the top of their game, at all times:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:


I agree, the whole gladatorial battle thing will just turn out like that one strip,

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0439.html
i doubt it, even with this comic, The Giant has never repeated a scrip to that degree. maybe he will spoof it. have bekar appear to win but be struck down at the last moment, that i could see happening. also, there have been several instances of foreshadowing that point to it being that unnamed character. (i can find them if you like)

[Debatra]

Item 30 on the Evil Overlord List:


All bumbling conjurers, clumsy squires, no-talent bards, and cowardly thieves in the land will be preemptively put to death. My foes will surely give up and abandon their quest if they have no source of comic relief.

:eek: RUN ELAN, RUN!!!

[Liriel]

The boots from strip #130! All sorts of old-strip good times. :smallbiggrin:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0130.html

[snikrept]

Why does "surprise" come before "sound" in the manual? I would have expected alpha order...

[Kareasint]

Why does "surprise" come before "sound" in the manual? I would have expected alpha order...

The manual is probably organized into sections for easier reference to specific jobs.

[HalfTangible]

Why does "surprise" come before "sound" in the manual? I would have expected alpha order...

Too obvious/predictable. He put it in reverse alpha :smalltongue:

[Elfin]

Tarquin is just awesome.

[Doug Lampert]

Item 30 on the Evil Overlord List:


All bumbling conjurers, clumsy squires, no-talent bards, and cowardly thieves in the land will be preemptively put to death. My foes will surely give up and abandon their quest if they have no source of comic relief.

:eek: RUN ELAN, RUN!!!

But he's not actually following the list.

He's got 2 (and only 2) sons. Completely blowing off the offspring entries.
He's shown no interest in killing ANY of our heroes, despite knowning who most of them are and knowing that they are heroes.
His guards and he himself have face concealing helmets. His own helmet is just begging for people to impersonate him.

He's genre savvy, which means he's aware of most of the things on the list, they're all cliches, but there's no evidence he's working from any particular specific version of the list, much less the standard Internet list.

Note that not holding surprise inspections and posting pictures of all the other guards in the break room both AREN'T ON THE LIST! He's not working from the list, he's just genre savvy enough to make up a quite different list of his own and take precautions against the things he's thought of.

[Kastor Macleod]

These last couple of comics got me thinking.
So... the final couple of comic strips... Durkon dies, blaze of glory or sacrifice of some sort, but not over-emphasized according to the Dwarven code of conduct, Tarquin shows up to face Xykon alongside Elan, True Lawful evil Vs. Chaoful Evil, and dies awesomely by Nale's hand who shows up with his Linear crew, there's a coolevildad-dopeybutlikableson death scene, Elan and Haley survive, Haley keeps her hair, Nale escapes, or does he? His crew mostly perishes. Roy has his revenge, but loses Belkar to Xykon, Belkar turns against the crew and Roy puts him down, adopts mr. Scruffy. V fights alongside Durkon, in a last stand of a sort, severely wounded and incapacitated it can only narrate and watch...
The monster in the darkness is accidentally dispatched by some turn of luck, or O'Chul persuades it to stay its umbrella.
Redcloack survives, somehow.
Banjo shows up to fight Snarl.
Afterwards, they carry Durkon to the dwarven lands and disband. Final pun by Elan.
What am i forgetting...
Oh yeah, Goblin Dan's business prospers.

[Grelna the Blue]

These last couple of comics got me thinking.
So... the final couple of comic strips... Durkon dies, blaze of glory or sacrifice of some sort, but not over-emphasized according to the Dwarven code of conduct, Tarquin shows up to face Xykon alongside Elan, True Lawful evil Vs. Chaoful Evil, and dies awesomely by Nale's hand who shows up with his Linear crew, there's a coolevildad-dopeybutlikableson death scene, Elan and Haley survive, Haley keeps her hair, Nale escapes, or does he? His crew mostly perishes. Roy has his revenge, but loses Belkar to Xykon, Belkar turns against the crew and Roy puts him down, adopts mr. Scruffy. V fights alongside Durkon, in a last stand of a sort, severely wounded and incapacitated it can only narrate and watch...
The monster in the darkness is accidentally dispatched by some turn of luck, or O'Chul persuades it to stay its umbrella.
Redcloack survives, somehow.
Banjo shows up to fight Snarl.
Afterwards, they carry Durkon to the dwarven lands and disband. Final pun by Elan.
What am i forgetting...
Oh yeah, Goblin Dan's business prospers.

You're forgetting the foretold catastrophe that will befall the dwarves when Durkon "returns" home. Aside from that, it all sounds fairly plausible, which is why it probably won't happen. The Giant has almost always surprised us.

[HalfTangible]

You're forgetting the foretold catastrophe that will befall the dwarves when Durkon "returns" home. Aside from that, it all sounds fairly plausible, which is why it probably won't happen. The Giant has almost always surprised us.

The Oracle stated he would return 'posthumously', which means Durkon must die before said cataclysmic event.

[The MunchKING]

The Oracle stated he would return 'posthumously', which means Durkon must die before said cataclysmic event.

Why? His return could CAUSE the cataclysmic event which kills him as he enters the Dwarven Lands but before he gets to "His beloved dwarf home" or whatever he specifically asked.

[HalfTangible]

Why? His return could CAUSE the cataclysmic event which kills him as he enters the Dwarven Lands but before he gets to "His beloved dwarf home" or whatever he specifically asked.

He said 'the dwarven homelands' and the doom was said to come WITH him. So yeah, he dies first >.>

EDIT: And unless he dies right at the border and falls over it to cause the event (too contrived for rich), he'd have to die outside of dwarven lands and then get taken there.

[Indalecio]

The typical OoTS reaction to any danger they're not expecting is to run away, although I agree, they could take out those guards easily. Maybe Rich is just scared that the taking of a human life will be thought of as worse than killing a hobgoblin. Cue the outraged posters claiming Haley just crossed the Moral Event Horizon. :smallbiggrin:

Or it just wouldn't be as funny as if they'd killed the guards.

[Grelna the Blue]

The Oracle stated he would return 'posthumously', which means Durkon must die before said cataclysmic event.

Yeah, but I can't believe that whatever event it is won't be shown in the comic, so I was pushing for its inclusion in the chronology.

[Red XIV]

The typical OoTS reaction to any danger they're not expecting is to run away, although I agree, they could take out those guards easily. Maybe Rich is just scared that the taking of a human life will be thought of as worse than killing a hobgoblin. Cue the outraged posters claiming Haley just crossed the Moral Event Horizon. :smallbiggrin:
Given that Haley's already killed quite a few of Tarquin's guards, probably not.

[MoonCat]

That was before the debate was rekindled, and I think it would probably be conveniently "forgotten" or called a joke. When worst comes to worst they will always fall back on "it was a JOKE!" Although good catch, I had actually forgotten that.

[Jace Beleren]

That one gaurd is lucky that his buddy put some ranks in "Sense Motive".

:smalltongue:

[Tobimaro]

That one gaurd is lucky that his buddy put some ranks in "Sense Motive".

:smalltongue:

Nah, more like the guard made an Intelligence check to realize that his instruction book had a section about inspections. Plus he had a circumstance bonus for having been told that, if he failed his duties, he'd most likely be killed. :smallwink:

[Blaznak]

oh, and a Happy New Years....

[IronWilliam]

What is up with all the :elan: haters on this forum? Since he got the dashing swordsman class, he's been moderately helpful.

[HalfTangible]

What is up with all the :elan: haters on this forum? Since he got the dashing swordsman class, he's been moderately helpful.

It's a fact of fandom: There will haters for every single character, no matter how awesome they may or may not be.

Corrollary: There will be lovers for every single character, no matter how awful they may or may not be.

[Skull the Troll]

Is anyone else getting worried that Xykon just isn't going to measure up if Tarquin keeps getting higher on the "best villains list?"

[StrykerX]

He's shown no interest in killing ANY of our heroes, despite knowning who most of them are and knowing that they are heroes.

Well, as he himself admitted he knows they're probably fighting some evil nutcase who wants to take over the world. As co-owner of a decent sized chunk of said world (and hopeful future co-owner of a larger chunk) it's quite in his best interest to aid any heroes attempting such a task. :smallwink:

After all, the last thing a Lawful Evil dictator wants is another evil character starting to take power. Good is easier to beat... they don't cheat as much. :smalltongue:

[HalfTangible]

Is anyone else getting worried that Xykon just isn't going to measure up if Tarquin keeps getting higher on the "best villains list?"

The best villians are rarely the main ones, you should know that by now :smalltongue:

[tiriricasmk]

omfg,elan really annoys me
would be great if he was the one to bite the dust instead of belkar

[Asthix]

His (Tarquin's) manuals are inscrutable!!:smalleek:

[Nevereatcars]

Is anyone else getting worried that Xykon just isn't going to measure up if Tarquin keeps getting higher on the "best villains list?"

Dude, Tarquin isn't even a psychopath! Go read SoD!

[Kish]

omfg,elan really annoys me
would be great if he was the one to bite the dust instead of belkar
Prepare for disappointment.

[Nimrod's Son]

omfg,elan really annoys me
would be great if he was the one to bite the dust instead of belkar
...and as long as we're dreaming, I'd like a pony.

[Felixc-91]

Dude, Tarquin isn't even a psychopath! Go read SoD!and that's suddenly a requirement for a good villain?

[HalfTangible]

and that's suddenly a requirement for a good villain?

I think he was saying that Tarquin isn't crazy enough to be a psychopath.

Wrong, imo. But i think that's what he was saying.

[Rob Roy]

I think he was saying that Tarquin isn't crazy enough to be a psychopath.

Wrong, imo. But i think that's what he was saying.
Tarquin's to structured to be a psychopath, he does what he does not for the "evulz", but because he has a plan and will do anything to make his plan work. Xykon is however in it for the "evulz". Is it that hard to actually spell out "In my own opinion" seriously this isn't a chat room, nor is it texting.

[rakkoon]

It is wonderful to have two great villains in one comic that are completely different in personalities and approach but are both fabulous characters

[HalfTangible]

Tarquin's to structured to be a psychopath, he does what he does not for the "evulz", but because he has a plan and will do anything to make his plan work. Xykon is however in it for the "evulz".

Isn't that a sociopath? :smallconfused: Psychopaths have no concern for morals but they can still have very organized, structured thoughts and ideas with clear goals. Or am i getting the two confused?


Is it that hard to actually spell out "In my own opinion" seriously this isn't a chat room, nor is it texting.

You knew exactly what i meant and 'imo' is simpler to type. Get over it. :smallannoyed:

'my own opinion' is a tautology anyway. There's no need for 'own'

[hamishspence]

Isn't that a sociopath? :smallconfused: Psychopaths have no concern for morals but they can still have very organized, structured thoughts and ideas with clear goals. Or am i getting the two confused?

There isn't really much of a difference- both terms are a bit out of date- and tend to mean the same thing.

However- in BoVD- a psychopath is someone who gets pleasure from harming or killing others. It might be just the killing- it might be the pain of the victim- it might be both.

This is a "D&D-only" definition though.

This thread:
Playing a sociopath in D&D (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182060")

discusses sociopath characters.

"Because I stand to gain from it" might be a sociopath line of reasoning for mistreating others"

"Because it's pleasurable" might be a "D&D psychopath" line of reasoning for similar acts.

[Warren Dew]

Isn't that a sociopath? :smallconfused: Psychopaths have no concern for morals but they can still have very organized, structured thoughts and ideas with clear goals. Or am i getting the two confused?

"Sociopath" and "psychopath" are synonyms, and you're right, Tarquin is definitely a sociopath/psychopath - he doesn't have any morals or compunctions.

The word the others are looking for is "psychotic". I'm not sure Xykon is actually psychotic, but he does definitely act more psychotic than Tarquin does.

[HalfTangible]

"Sociopath" and "psychopath" are synonyms, and you're right, Tarquin is definitely a sociopath/psychopath - he doesn't have any morals or compunctions.

The word the others are looking for is "psychotic". I'm not sure Xykon is actually psychotic, but he does definitely act more psychotic than Tarquin does.

One does it for personal pleasure (cuz it's fun) the other does it for personal gain (cuz then i become king). Not sure which is which.

[KillItWithFire]

interesting thing I just noticed, Elan has had these boots for a while (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0156.html) it seems. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0130.html)

[HalfTangible]

interesting thing I just noticed, Elan has had these boots for a while (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0156.html) it seems. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0130.html)

... come to think of it, where did he find the flowers and chocolates?

EDIT: And where was his four then, huh? :smalltongue:

[MoonCat]

Speed of the plot you guys, speed of the plot. He'll fail his check when Roy wants him to. All the stuff he has was in the same place Roy keeps his Bag of Tricks, where V keeps his spell-books, all of that stuff. Elan just happened to have chocolates. Maybe Haley gave them anonymously to him. :smalleek: That makes it a good thing she never saw those :smalleek:

[Felixc-91]

There isn't really much of a difference- both terms are a bit out of date- and tend to mean the same thing.

However- in BoVD- a psychopath is someone who gets pleasure from harming or killing others. It might be just the killing- it might be the pain of the victim- it might be both.

This is a "D&D-only" definition though.


"Sociopath" and "psychopath" are synonyms, and you're right, Tarquin is definitely a sociopath/psychopath - he doesn't have any morals or compunctions.
ok lets get this strait. Sociopath and psychopath are synonymous and outdated terms which have been replaced with the term Antisocial Personality Disorder (APD). definition: "a personality disorder in which the person (usually a man) exhibits a lack of conscience for wrongdoing, even towards friends and family members. may be aggressive and ruthless or a clever con artist." (from Psychology in Everyday Life)
also, on a side note, the actual word that fits the definition BoVD gives for psychopath is sadist.
IMHO, :xykon: is both. T... might have APD

[Wikiality]

I'm going add my voice to the growing chorus and remind everyone that sociopathy and psychopathy are medically the same thing. The danger with ASPD and other personality disorders is diagnosing them properly, though Xykon and Tarquin are pretty much clear cut cases.

[hamishspence]

also, on a side note, the actual word that fits the definition BoVD gives for psychopath is sadist.

Even then- it's the more extreme "serial killer" level of it. Also- the BoVD version includes characters who have no interest in pain of victim- just the feeling of power they get from killing them. So it's more general than that.

[Rob Roy]

ok lets get this strait. Sociopath and psychopath are synonymous and outdated terms which have been replaced with the term Antisocial Personality Disorder (APD). definition: "a personality disorder in which the person (usually a man) exhibits a lack of conscience for wrongdoing, even towards friends and family members. may be aggressive and ruthless or a clever con artist." (from Psychology in Everyday Life)
also, on a side note, the actual word that fits the definition BoVD gives for psychopath is sadist.
IMHO, :xykon: is both. T... might have APD
That's quite fascinating, and I don't pay much attention to the soft sciences so you've also taught me something, which is awesome. Also, since the soft sciences count as science, I believe a catgirl just died.

[Felixc-91]

Even then- it's the more extreme "serial killer" level of it. Also- the BoVD version includes characters who have no interest in pain of victim- just the feeling of power they get from killing them. So it's more general than that.huh, ok, good to know. my statment was based on what you said in your post so its all good.

That's quite fascinating, and I don't pay much attention to the soft sciences so you've also taught me something, which is awesome. Also, since the soft sciences count as science, I believe a catgirl just died.
huh? wtf? :smallconfused:

[hamishspence]

huh, ok, good to know. my statment was based on what you said in your post so its all good.

"Power" is supposed to be a big theme of the BoVD psychopath- it also includes rapists within the description- and stresses that the reason is always "power over helpless victim".


huh? wtf? :smallconfused:

There is an internet meme "Every time someone brings real science into a fantasy discussion, a catgirl dies"
(maybe based on the older Peter Pan "Every time someone says "I don't believe in fairies"- a fairy dies", perhaps?)

[Rob Roy]

There is an internet meme "Every time someone brings real science into a fantasy discussion, a catgirl dies"
(maybe based on the older Peter Pan "Every time someone says "I don't believe in fairies"- a fairy dies", perhaps?)
I'm pretty sure that's where it's from, but who knows. But, yeah, it's a meme. On a completely different note, who thinks Tarquin being dangerously genre savy will be his ultimate downfall?

[Felixc-91]

I'm pretty sure that's where it's from, but who knows. But, yeah, it's a meme. On a completely different note, who thinks Tarquin being dangerously genre savy will be his ultimate downfall? i can definitely see it, subversion of convention leading to the discovery/targeting of a notable chink in T's metaphorical armor. who do you think will be the key? Haley? Roy, maybe?
Edit: oooh, maybe it'll be Belkar, instead of waiting for T to finish his grand villain speech, he'll simply stab him, in the eye if its at all possible.

[Rob Roy]

i can definitely see it, subversion of convention leading to the discovery/targeting of a notable chink in T's metaphorical armor. who do you think will be the key? Haley? Roy, maybe?
It would be dramatically appropriate for it to be Elan or Haley, since this arc seems to be focussing on them. They're probably a safe bet, and Haley's dad would likely have something to do with it, but who knows, could be anyone.

[silvadel]

Anyone else think this would be a "good" time to shift to team evil? :biggrin:

[HalfTangible]

Anyone else think this would be a "good" time to shift to team evil? :biggrin:

...

That was horrible.

[Dinner Thief]

Is there any chance that when the books come out we will be able to read that sign in panel #2? also a good extra for the book would be a snippit from that guard manual thing.

"I got a nine" was priceless even the second time

[hamishspence]

Is there any chance that when the books come out we will be able to read that sign in panel #2?

The reds and blacks in the sign seem to match up to the one at the end of this strip:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0741.html

so it may be the gladiatorial games poster again.

[Dinner Thief]

Ah ok yea now that you put it up there it does seem to match up pretty well.

oh well, either way I still think it would be nice to see that manual in the book whenever it comes to print.

[Gnoman]

It would be dramatically appropriate for it to be Elan or Haley, since this arc seems to be focussing on them. They're probably a safe bet, and Haley's dad would likely have something to do with it, but who knows, could be anyone.

Somehow, I suspect this arc to end up as "dramatically uncorrect as possible.

[Forlong]

"There will be no surprise inspections."

That was pretty funny. Glad to see the evil overlord list in action.

[Rob Roy]

Somehow, I suspect this arc to end up as "dramatically uncorrect as possible.
Probably, and the utter lack of a dramatically correct ending would tear Elan apart. Then the ending of the comic would be as dramatically correct as possible, giving Elan a happy ending. Just as one possibility, of course.

[snikrept]

r.e. Xykon is a psychopath, Tarquin is not

Tarquin is most definitely a psychopath. For starters, he doesn't believe other people are people so much as objects. That on its own goes well beyond mere sociopathy.

"Wait, who do you consider a 'somebody'?"
"ANYbody!"
"Fine, I'll keep the ring then"

[Gnoman]

Not the same thing at all. "What do you consider a somebody?" Means "How important does this person need to be for you to care?" One need not be a sociopath to value human lives as dispassionately as chips in a poker game, just a certain degree of coldblooded-ness. Doctors have to do it all the time, for example.

[Kish]

Not the same thing at all. "What do you consider a somebody?" Means "How important does this person need to be for you to care?"
What? Where are you getting this?

Elan said "somebody." "Who do you consider a 'somebody'?" is very much indicative of a belief that only some people are people.

I won't even get into the rest of your post, since the first half of it is based on the assumption that Tarquin meant something quite counterintuitive.

[HalfTangible]

Elan said "somebody." "Who do you consider a 'somebody'?" is very much indicative of a belief that only some people are people.

No, he had it right =/

[Aurabolt]

And once again, poor Elan. If was endearing at first when he was clearly stupid and incapable at playing the roles of the class he had, but now he's actually understanding his role as a hybrid of the classes-with a PrC-and he gets screwed by the fates as well. Dammit.

For that matter, there's something I've wanted to touch base on for quite awhile now, since Haley brought it up for me thanks to her remark at the end; I really miss Celia's character archetype in this comic. She's sweet and gentle for the most part, while maintaining a capable sense about her, and has some pretty visible flaws as well. I think Rich is a great writer who has delved into many different archetypes, but what I don't understand is why most of the girls really have to seem so rough and willing to back it up.

Haley is a rogue of above 10th Level. I understand that, so her abilities are not in question here (Although I find her successes against potential Take-20 Situations on Use Rope checks and her escape a bit suspect...especially with that looming +10 Circumstance.) Sure, she's had emotional issues and lashes against them through others, but does she always have to be able to do things on her own? Relying on others has never been shown to be a bad thing in this comic, and fighting and working with these people, or-gasp-possibly being in trouble and assisted by Elan or someone else doesn't strike me as a bad thing.

Kazumi is another example for me, for obvious reasons when she was attacked.

I realize that female characters should be seen as strong too; I'm not saying anything against that, but there is also nothing wrong with strong and sweet female characters, much like there's nothing wrong with the same thing from males.

-This rant was brought to you by Haley's recent trend in personality, as has been this recent aftermath of Roy and Belkar-also highly capable PCs-in real problems with no help from their Good party member in an Evil Society. It has not been meant to insult or dismiss, but simply to understand. :smallsmile:-

[Mr. Zolrane]

"I got a nine" was priceless even the second time


I am the only one who can't help but read that in the big (exceptionally) goofy voice Brian Regan uses when he says "I walked on the MOON!"?



And once again, poor Elan. If was endearing at first when he was clearly stupid and incapable at playing the roles of the class he had, but now he's actually understanding his role as a hybrid of the classes-with a PrC-and he gets screwed by the fates as well. Dammit.

For that matter, there's something I've wanted to touch base on for quite awhile now, since Haley brought it up for me thanks to her remark at the end; I really miss Celia's character archetype in this comic. She's sweet and gentle for the most part, while maintaining a capable sense about her, and has some pretty visible flaws as well. I think Rich is a great writer who has delved into many different archetypes, but what I don't understand is why most of the girls really have to seem so rough and willing to back it up.

Haley is a rogue of above 10th Level. I understand that, so her abilities are not in question here (Although I find her successes against potential Take-20 Situations on Use Rope checks and her escape a bit suspect...especially with that looming +10 Circumstance.) Sure, she's had emotional issues and lashes against them through others, but does she always have to be able to do things on her own? Relying on others has never been shown to be a bad thing in this comic, and fighting and working with these people, or-gasp-possibly being in trouble and assisted by Elan or someone else doesn't strike me as a bad thing.

Kazumi is another example for me, for obvious reasons when she was attacked.

I realize that female characters should be seen as strong too; I'm not saying anything against that, but there is also nothing wrong with strong and sweet female characters, much like there's nothing wrong with the same thing from males.

-This rant was brought to you by Haley's recent trend in personality, as has been this recent aftermath of Roy and Belkar-also highly capable PCs-in real problems with no help from their Good party member in an Evil Society. It has not been meant to insult or dismiss, but simply to understand. :smallsmile:-

Regarding the ladies: Years ago I heard a similar criticism directed at A Modest Destiny (for the two of you who remember it; great comic, despite never being finished, and the repeated Creator Breakdowns)-- that basically all of its female characters (with the exception of one, and even she had one big, violent moment) were basically rough and tough action girls, and some accused the author of rehashing the same archetype over and over again. Basically, what I told those people at the type, and what I want to point out now, is that one should consider the nature of the story: it's an adventure comedy, and characters often find themselves in perilous situations. Pretty much everybody's going to have to fight in some capacity or another.

[Kish]

No, he had it right =/
Okay, you can answer "Where are you getting that?" if you want.

If you just want to prove by assertion, you'll have to understand if I find "you should interpret what Tarquin says to mean something other than what he says because I say so" unconvincing.

[HalfTangible]

Okay, you can answer "Where are you getting that?" if you want.

If you just want to prove by assertion, you'll have to understand if I find "you should interpret what Tarquin says to mean something other than what he says because I say so" unconvincing.

I can't do anything BUT assert, and inform you that in the screwed up language known as english, just about everything has at least four meanings. 'Somebody' could mean any one person, but it can also mean 'a somebody', which means any one important person. Tarquin thought he meant the latter.

[cc_kizz]

What? Where are you getting this?

Elan said "somebody." "Who do you consider a 'somebody'?" is very much indicative of a belief that only some people are people.

…[snip]

What's the definition of "people"? Are lizard folk considered people (for example)? My understanding was that he wasn't necessarily referring to humans (unless you can only make that kind of magic item using humans, in which case, I defer to those with greater D&D understanding).

[Starlong]

Wouldn't he get 11? The lack of his bard outfit chain shirt should remove a -2 Armour Check Penalty.

Maybe he forgot to count his bonuses :smallfrown:

[HalfTangible]

Wouldn't he get 11? The lack of his bard outfit chain shirt should remove a -2 Armour Check Penalty.

Maybe he forgot to count his bonuses :smallfrown:

Not if he just rolled a four anyway =P

[Kish]

I can't do anything BUT assert, and inform you that in the screwed up language known as english, just about everything has at least four meanings. 'Somebody' could mean any one person, but it can also mean 'a somebody', which means any one important person. Tarquin thought he meant the latter.
Please quit just repeating this claim about Tarquin's thought processes and explain why you think it. Because, after all, Tarquin has shown so much respect for the life and individuality of others in the other strips he's appeared in...

[HalfTangible]

Please quit just repeating this claim about Tarquin's thought processes and explain why you think it. Because, after all, Tarquin has shown so much respect for the life and individuality of others in the other strips he's appeared in...

I explained why in that EXACT post: because that's how the english language works. :smallannoyed:

[Kish]

I explained why in that EXACT post: because that's how the english language works. :smallannoyed:
The English language works that if someone seems to be saying one thing, but it's possible to parse his words into something else that doesn't go with his personality at all, the latter is what he actually means?

...No. Tarquin doesn't consider most people to be people. Even if he had said, say, "Nobody important!" in response to that particular statement of Elan's...It would still be obvious from everything Tarquin did and said before that that Tarquin doesn't consider most people to be people, which is why Elan made that statement.

[Belkar is back]

I would like to have a closer look at that poster on the fence in panel 2...

I think it is one of the gladiator posters.

[HalfTangible]

The English language works that if someone seems to be saying one thing, but it's possible to parse his words into something else that doesn't go with his personality at all, the latter is what he actually means?No. But grammar and context are VERY indicative of a word's meaning.

To clarify, since apparently i didn't explain it well enough the first time: Tarquin knows that saying 'somebody' can also mean 'an important person'. Tarquin was asking 'how important does a person have to be for you to consider them important?'.

That makes plenty of sense with his personality, or rather what we've seen of it so far. IE, "i care about important people and the rest can all go jump off a cliff for all i care... but if they do, can we set up a camera for it?"

[Rob Roy]

No. But grammar and context are VERY indicative of a word's meaning.

To clarify, since apparently I didn't explain it well enough the first time: Tarquin knows that saying "Somebody" can also mean "An important person". Tarquin was asking "How important does a person have to be for you to consider them important?".

That makes plenty of sense with his personality, or rather what we've seen of it so far. IE, "I care about important people and the rest can all go jump off a cliff for all I care... but if they do, can we set up a camera for it?"
I agree with this, but I'd like to add not caring whether someone lives or dies is because they're not important enough is psychotic, so he Tarquin's either sociopathic or a psycho regardless of how you interpret what he said.

[HalfTangible]

I agree with this, but I'd like to add not caring whether someone lives or dies is because they're not important enough is psychotic, so he Tarquin's either sociopathic or a psycho regardless of how you interpret what he said.

No, sociopathic is when you do something beneficial to yourself but you don't care about anyone else. Psychopathic is when you do something harmful because it's just plain fun. Sociopaths burn a man alive to buy his property and make a profit. Psychopaths burn a man alive to hear his screams.

Besides, psycho vs socio wasn't what we were discussing. We were... discussing...

...

My GOD, we were discussing Tarquin's semantics... what the f?

[Rob Roy]

No, sociopathic is when you do something beneficial to yourself but you don't care about anyone else. Psychopathic is when you do something harmful because it's just plain fun. Sociopaths burn a man alive to buy his property and make a profit. Psychopaths burn a man alive to hear his screams.
I said or because I didn't want to look up which one was which a time.


Besides, psycho vs socio wasn't what we were discussing. We were... discussing...
And the only reason you were discussing that was because of this post.



r.e. Xykon is a psychopath, Tarquin is not

Tarquin is most definitely a psychopath. For starters, he doesn't believe other people are people so much as objects. That on its own goes well beyond mere sociopathy.

"Wait, who do you consider a 'somebody'?"
"ANYbody!"
"Fine, I'll keep the ring then"

Which was in the "What mental illness does Tarquin suffer from" argument. And, yes, yes you were discussing Tarquins schematics. The argument itself was quite funny, though I fail to see why you would debate the peculiarities of the English language without it having an impact on a larger argument. Maybe because arguing is fun? Which it is.

[BladeofOblivion]

Maybe because arguing is fun? Which it is.

Ah: The good old Tellarite Maxim.