Brotherhood of Steel vs. Clone Troopers

[aart lover]

alright so we've got the Brotherhood from the fallout universe. they're into tech and knowledge and really big guns. not to mention slowly rebuilding humanity. the clones from star wars. professional soldiers who all share the same face. as disciplined as they come. i realize that the clones number in the billions, so let's say we got no more than 100 or so from each side. with the WEST coast brotherhood. they're fighting in a desert. both have support(i.e. artillery, air strikes, supply lines.) who do you think would win?

[Tazar]

We're no doubt going to get some absurd math about how Star Wars laser rifles vaporize tanks and blow apart five-foot-thick steel plating. However, I'm inclined to think this is a fairly close match; clone troopers have better basic rifles while Brotherhood members have perhaps slightly better armor and better high-end weaponry.

Allowing artillery and airstrikes means the clones wipe the floor with the BoS; the BoS have neither of these.

[tyckspoon]

On a soldier to soldier basis, it's the Brotherhood; their armor is better and their personal weapons are better (RAWKETS, gatling lasers, and plasma rifles against blasters, I'm betting on the plasma and the high explosives.) The clones can access better support weaponry, however, so if you're serious about full air and heavy weapon support than the Brotherhood gets strafed and bombed off the field- vertibirds don't beat out fighters and gunships, and the Fallout world seems to have mostly lost the concept of tanks and field guns, so the Brotherhood doesn't have much to call on for counterfire and air suppression.

[Tazar]

The Western Brotherhood doesn't even have Vertibirds, unfortunately.

As for artillery/tanks, Power Armored troopers replaced tanks, and while artillery was still definitely done via huge cannons and SP units, those almost all perished in the Great War and there has been no incentive or ability to rebuild them.

The Enclave has access to artillery, but that's about the only faction that does.

[AshDesert]

The Brotherhood, as has already been mentioned, have better individual troops. However, with no support at all (not even Vertibirds if we're talking West Coast) the Clones would just bomb them into oblivion then send in the ground troopers once they outnumber the Brotherhood 10 to 1. The Brotherhood soldiers are more effective, but not effective enough to face those kinds of odds.

[Mando Knight]

If it's standard CTs, then the Brotherhood could definitely win. If you throw in the various commando units, then it would possibly be a bit more even (especially since the Republic Commandos are essentially Star Wars versions of the HALO-verse's SPARTANs... closer to Noble Team than Master Chief, but still highly-trained, well-equipped squads of commandos who take out major objectives alone). With the support of mechanized and aerial units, though, the GAR takes the cake. They've got advanced infantry carrier/attack gunships (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/LAAT/i), heavily armored (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Heavy_Assault_Vehicle/wheeled_A6_Juggernaut)troop carrier/ (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/All_Terrain_Open_Transport)assault mechs (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/All_Terrain_Tactical_Enforcer), lighter skirmishing tanks (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/TX-130_Saber-class_fighter_tank) and scout (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/BARC_Speeder)combat vehicles (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/AT-RT), and heavy (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Self-Propelled_Heavy_Artillery)artillery. (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Unstable_Terrain_Artillery_Transport) A society rebuilding in a post-apocalyptic world can't really match the war machines produced by dedicated engineering companies.

[Obsequious]

A basic troop-against-troop fight probably favors the Brotherhood of Steel, but it's difficult to tell. There's no actual weapons test on what a Clone Trooper's rifle would do to Brotherhood Power Armor, or vice verse. Based on in-universe portrayals, though, the whole "A guy in Power Armor is a walking tank" thing stacks up favorably to a great soldier (who is admittedly equipped with really advanced technology).

The question of how the technology stacks up would probably be a deal-breaker, so without that, you probably couldn't say.

Anything beyond troop-versus-troop ends in the Clones' favor. The mechanized support in the Clones' favor outclasses pretty much anything the Brotherhood could hope to bring.

[aart lover]

On a soldier to soldier basis, it's the Brotherhood; their armor is better and their personal weapons are better (RAWKETS, gatling lasers, and plasma rifles against blasters, I'm betting on the plasma and the high explosives.) The clones can access better support weaponry, however, so if you're serious about full air and heavy weapon support than the Brotherhood gets strafed and bombed off the field- vertibirds don't beat out fighters and gunships, and the Fallout world seems to have mostly lost the concept of tanks and field guns, so the Brotherhood doesn't have much to call on for counterfire and air suppression.

tesla cannons. high explosives.

[Tazar]

There *is* the Fat Man. Not much, but it's something.

But yeah, allowing artillery/airstrikes is kinda silly because only one side has access to those.

[Pie Guy]

Does space bombardment count as support?

[dgnslyr]

Hrm, does Stormtrooper incompetence carry over to Clone Troopers? I think this will be a decisive factor.

[The Glyphstone]

The clones are fairly competent from what we see of them. It's only when Imperial training broke down for clone replacements that their skills dropped.

[chiasaur11]

If it's standard CTs, then the Brotherhood could definitely win. If you throw in the various commando units, then it would possibly be a bit more even (especially since the Republic Commandos are essentially Star Wars versions of the HALO-verse's SPARTANs... closer to Noble Team than Master Chief, but still highly-trained, well-equipped squads of commandos who take out major objectives alone). With the support of mechanized and aerial units, though, the GAR takes the cake. They've got advanced infantry carrier/attack gunships (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/LAAT/i), heavily armored (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Heavy_Assault_Vehicle/wheeled_A6_Juggernaut)troop carrier/ (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/All_Terrain_Open_Transport)assault mechs (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/All_Terrain_Tactical_Enforcer), lighter skirmishing tanks (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/TX-130_Saber-class_fighter_tank) and scout (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/BARC_Speeder)combat vehicles (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/AT-RT), and heavy (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Self-Propelled_Heavy_Artillery)artillery. (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Unstable_Terrain_Artillery_Transport) A society rebuilding in a post-apocalyptic world can't really match the war machines produced by dedicated engineering companies.

And then there's the Deltas.

Boss, RC 1138 managed over 15K targets downed. That's kinda terrifying.

[Axolotl]

The Western Brotherhood doesn't even have Vertibirds, unfortunately.I thought they got the ability to make vertibirds at the end of Fallout 2 because the Chosen One steals the designs for them from the Enclave?

[Coidzor]

A basic troop-against-troop fight probably favors the Brotherhood of Steel, but it's difficult to tell. There's no actual weapons test on what a Clone Trooper's rifle would do to Brotherhood Power Armor, or vice verse. Based on in-universe portrayals, though, the whole "A guy in Power Armor is a walking tank" thing stacks up favorably to a great soldier (who is admittedly equipped with really advanced technology).

Well, while the blaster is a somewhat...nebulously defined weapon, there are some things we know about them.

The laser weaponry in Starwars is, apparently, laser-heated plasma, whereas the blaster is something like a laser-particle beam mix. Although there's apparently also a plasma-based form of the weapon which is a plasma-laser bolt. As to how a plasma-laser beam is different from a laser-heated plasma beam...*shrug*

The plasma-based blasters appear to be considered more powerful (but also more expensive in terms of energy and gas used due to converting gas into plasma) from what I can find on wookiepedia, and is the variant of blaster that the clone troopers receive as standard (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/DC-15A_blaster_rifle)issue (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/DC-15S_blaster) in long-rifle and carbine form. Plasma weaponry is the top of the line for Brotherhood Paladins.

So both sides have access to a similar class of weaponry (coherent packages of plasma being, well, plasma) which should be comparable to a certain extent. (at the very least, I believe the power armor has a an indication in its stats of its relative defensive value versus plasma)

Brotherhood power armor is effective at mitigating the effects of plasma weaponry to a certain extent. Whereas clone trooper armor is, well, storm trooper armor. There's two versions though, Phase I (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Phase_I_clone_trooper_armor)and Phase II (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Phase_II_clone_trooper_armor). As far as I can tell the most noteworthy change is that one can sit without physical pain in the Phase II armor.

And phase II is more resistant to shrapnel, so frag grenades' effectiveness drops, as do rockets, but to a lesser extent, because, well, they're rockets. Plus they have armor-piercing versions of the rockets, so those are probably still on the table.

So, I'm thinking neither side would be getting consistent one shot kills (except for with heavy weaponry)

[Don Julio Anejo]

However, clone troopers are basically infantry in body suits. As such they can (and do) effectively use light infantry tactics such as shooting from cover, without the drawbacks of actual light infantry such as susceptibility to frag/concussion explosives (rockets, grenades) exploding near them.

Power armor... On the upside, you're a walking tank. On the downside, you're a walking tank. I know this is game mechanics, but they still show that your speed and agility drops significantly. It gets more difficult to run in power armor, you get a significant penalty to agility (T-45d has -1, slightly better T-51d has -2, on a 10 point scale with 5 being average agility).

Which means no shooting from corners/behind cover and expecting to actually hit stuff. Or being able to move fast enough to pin and flank - clone troopers can just run away.

So to summarize: as long as the numbers aren't too high on either side (say, squad level combat) and the terrain allows for cover and maneuvering (forest, rocky hills, urban landscape), clone troopers have a very, very good chance to win this. BoS knights/paladins need to be able to press their advanage, which is, well, heavy armor. Therefore, they will win if terrain either grants no cover to clone troopers (i.e. desert) or they can be boxed into a corner (i.e. inside a building).

[Coidzor]

Which means no shooting from corners/behind cover and expecting to actually hit stuff.

Where are you getting that part from? I can understand having usable cover being less likely and thus less able to make use of cover, but I'm not getting where you're coming from in regards to not being able to hit anything and use cover at the same time.

Power Armor isn't THAT big and cumbersome. Individuals in power armor are still infantry, they're just in a little used category of heavy infantry. Their maneuverability takes a hit but they're not miniature mecha.

[Emperor Ing]

On Soldier vs Soldier: Brotherhood pulls this one off but it's a close fight. I imagine blasters being the equivalent of slightly more powerful laser rifles. While Clones do have access to powerful heavy weapons, the Brotherhood tends to deploy them more generously.

[Obsequious]

So, I'm thinking neither side would be getting consistent one shot kills (except for with heavy weaponry)

I'm significantly less well-versed in Star Wars history than Fallout, so I'll agree until otherwise informed.


Power armor... On the upside, you're a walking tank. On the downside, you're a walking tank. I know this is game mechanics, but they still show that your speed and agility drops significantly. It gets more difficult to run in power armor, you get a significant penalty to agility (T-45d has -1, slightly better T-51d has -2, on a 10 point scale with 5 being average agility).

I don't know where you're getting those stats. :X

T-51b Armor (which is what the Western Brotherhood uses as standard) has never come with a drop to Agility. Now, T-45d gives you a -2, and Enclave Advanced Power Armor Mk 2 gives you a -1, but the Brotherhood standard does not give you a drop to your Agility.

If we want to bring up the stats, that is. In-depth analysis of how mobile you are in Power Armor is slightly more difficult to come by. I'd assume that being in a exoskeleton designed to enhance your movements could compensate for the problem of being in a big, heavy exoskeleton, but we can't really know.

[aart lover]

well it's good to see that everyone is taking a clear standpoint. at least circumstantially, anyways.

[Gullintanni]

Assuming BoS has access to its full range of weapons, then I'd give this one to the BoS on a squad based level. Their armor is observed to effectively mitigate everything except for mini-nukes (a la "Fat Man") in the Fallout Universe.

I have no doubt then, that their armor will be able to protect them against blaster fire. Throw in Rockets, Chain Guns, Gatling Lasers, Plasma weapons and possibly the occasional Fat-Man, and the ability to lay down suppressing fire + physical toughness will be a good match for the Clones.

Allowing for Artillery and Heavy Support gives this to the Clones 100 times out of 100, but in an infantry only engagement, then I'd pick the BoS 70-30 over the Clones. Not shameful, but a clear route.

[mangosta71]

We should also consider that we often see BoS troops taking direct hits with heavy weapons to the chest and they keep on going. If a clone gets grazed on the arm, he's dead. So, yeah, BoS wins the infantry game hands down.

The transports used by the clones are laughably fragile - the BoS's heavy infantry weapons will clear them out of the sky fairly easily. But I don't think the BoS can counter artillery, so in the scenario put forth I'm gonna have to hand it to the clones.

[Obsequious]

I'm not actually sure how well the in-universe portrayal applies, because for all we know, the whole "Clones dying en masse" stuff is for dramatic effect, and wouldn't be an accurate representation of what would happen in... uh...

Actually, that's a good point. In which universe/laws of physics/laws of how stuff explodes would this battle take place?

[warty goblin]

On power armor: defeating it really is very simple. Just use mud, sand or any other terrain that messes with footing. Wearing that much metal on your body is going to have two effects, neither of them good:

1) It will shift your center of mass upwards, making it more difficult to keep one's balance, particularly given the stupidly large pauldrons Fallout power armor comes with.

2) It will drastically increase the amount of pressure your feet put on the ground. Any time said terrain is not the mystical ground texture of a videogame or rock, concrete metal or other seriously solid surface, this is going to make movement much more difficult.

The result of these two factors is the Brotherhood less resembling a ferocious army marching off to war, and more that scene in Robin Hood Men in Tights where he knocks over all the guys in heavy armor.

[Obsequious]

I'm just going to note that we're not actually aware if there is/how much metal in T-51b Power Armor. The most we know of its composition is as such:


The armor is fitted with a back-mounted TX-28 MicroFusion Pack which generates an output power of 60,000 Watts to power the HiFlo hydraulic systems built into the frame of the suit. Made of a poly-laminate composite, the outer shell of the T-51b is lightweight and capable of absorbing over 25,000 Joules of kinetic impact. The 10-micron-thick silver ablative coating can reflect laser and other radiation emissions without damage to the composite subsurface.

Outer shell is lightweight and not metal. Nothing said on inner workings (though it presumably does contain metal). The total weight of the armor is up to debate.

Juuuust saying.

I'm not versed enough on the physics of the matter to say how the armor would handle in anything less than hard, flat terrain, but apparently it proved effective in various locations, from Alaska to China (which, geographically is... China). No mention of issues with footing.

But anyhow, I'd posit that making the terrain of a given battle unfavorable to Power Armor defeats the purpose of who'd win in a (all other things being even) fight. Ideally, the terrain would be neutral and similarly favorable to both sides.

[Somebloke]

Hmmm....

Do giant, laser-eyed, nuke-deploying, communism-hating androids count as support? Because we know that they exist and that the brotherhood have had access to at least one (the east coast, granted, but still). And possibly kill-sats as well, depending on the outcome of New Vegas.

[Gullintanni]

I'm just going to note that we're not actually aware if there is/how much metal in T-51b Power Armor. The most we know of its composition is as such:

Outer shell is lightweight and not metal. Nothing said on inner workings (though it presumably does contain metal). The total weight of the armor is up to debate.


In-game power armor weighs 45lbs. not including the helmet. Standard infantry back-packs today weigh upwards of 70lbs. Standard infantry armor today weighs in and around 20lbs.

Any problem that power armor would have with mud or sand or less than ideal footing, would also be experienced by regular infantry.


Hmmm....

Do giant, laser-eyed, nuke-deploying, communism-hating androids count as support? Because we know that they exist and that the brotherhood have had access to at least one (the east coast, granted, but still). And possibly kill-sats as well, depending on the outcome of New Vegas.

And...I'm assuming Liberty Prime is outside the scope of this particular battle, but in general...

YOU WILL EMBRACE DEMOCRACY, OR YOU WILL BE ERADICATED!

[aart lover]

well, for whatever reason, the EAST bros got Liberty Prime instead of the west. how did that work again?

[Falgorn]

well, for whatever reason, the EAST bros got Liberty Prime instead of the west. how did that work again?

Didn't they find it after attacking an Enclave base or some nonsense like that?
Iunno, can we count Liberty Prime? He could be an edge against the troop transports, but if the clones get artillery, Liberty Prime might not last that long.

[Gullintanni]

Didn't they find it after attacking an Enclave base or some nonsense like that?
Iunno, can we count Liberty Prime? He could be an edge against the troop transports, but if the clones get artillery, Liberty Prime might not last that long.

If you follow the OP's post, Clones get artillery and air strikes. In the Star Wars universe, air-strikes also include orbital bombardments. Liberty Prime is toast.

Infantry vs. Infantry makes this a much more reasonable battle. BoS has that.
If you include artillery/air support, it goes to the clones hands down. Prime or no Prime...

[Selrahc]

Are you guys all seriously thinking that to deal with a small scale group, with no space assets, the Galactic Republic are going to be pulling out large scale orbital bombardments? Especially against a group who has a habit of sitting in underground, heavily fortified bunkers, where it would take a fairly major bombing effort to dislodge them. This conflict would never get big enough to justify bringing in Space Fleets, and ground forces are going to be the order of the day. People should stop assuming that these versus threads are immediately going to devolve to using the very biggest guns, especially in a small scale conflict like this one. Encountering heavy resistance? Slag the continent from orbit. Experiencing minor difficulties? Slice the entire planet from the fabric of space time and scatter it to the winds of infinity. Just got a paper cut? Destroy the entire universe.

The obvious context based situation is that the Brotherhood are sitting in their fortress, holding onto valuable information or technology. The Clone troopers are being sent in to retrieve the desired thing as quickly and surgically as possible.

So... assuming the Clone Troopers are on the offensive, you'd also have to assume that these are clone special forces. The best of the best. Not the kind who die in droves.

Clone Troopers win in skill. Most Brotherhood members are well trained, but not nearly as elite as the top warriors in a galactic war.
Clone Troopers win in sensors. Pip boys are generally better than what the Brotherhood packs, and the Star Wars people have access to things far beyond that.
Brotherhood has better weapons and armour
Brotherhood has better defensive fortifications
Clone Troopers have better paraphenalia, Brotherhood has a few combat stimms, emp grenades and gadgets, while Clone Troopers have a lot more.

[warty goblin]

In-game power armor weighs 45lbs. not including the helmet.

And in-game bullets weigh absolutely nothing at all. I really don't think in-game weights can be taken to mean anything.

[Tazar]

Are you guys all seriously thinking that to deal with a small scale group, with no space assets, the Galactic Republic are going to be pulling out large scale orbital bombardments? Especially against a group who has a habit of sitting in underground, heavily fortified bunkers, where it would take a fairly major bombing effort to dislodge them. This conflict would never get big enough to justify bringing in Space Fleets, and ground forces are going to be the order of the day. People should stop assuming that these versus threads are immediately going to devolve to using the very biggest guns, especially in a small scale conflict like this one. Encountering heavy resistance? Slag the continent from orbit. Experiencing minor difficulties? Slice the entire planet from the fabric of space time and scatter it to the winds of infinity. Just got a paper cut? Destroy the entire universe.

The obvious context based situation is that the Brotherhood are sitting in their fortress, holding onto valuable information or technology. The Clone troopers are being sent in to retrieve the desired thing as quickly and surgically as possible.

So... assuming the Clone Troopers are on the offensive, you'd also have to assume that these are clone special forces. The best of the best. Not the kind who die in droves.

Clone Troopers win in skill. Most Brotherhood members are well trained, but not nearly as elite as the top warriors in a galactic war.
Clone Troopers win in sensors. Pip boys are generally better than what the Brotherhood packs, and the Star Wars people have access to things far beyond that.
Brotherhood has better weapons and armour
Brotherhood has better defensive fortifications
Clone Troopers have better paraphenalia, Brotherhood has a few combat stimms, emp grenades and gadgets, while Clone Troopers have a lot more.

The Brotherhood will likely have an experience advantage; that's something to keep in mind.
Clone Troopers are used to fighting mindless robots, not real, experienced soldiers. They will be better natural soldiers, of course, but I'm inclined to think the Brotherhood experience edge makes up for this.

The -Agility of the T-45d is supposed to represent the fact that it doesn't have great freedom of movement; someone in T-45d will still have their physical capabilities enhanced far beyond that of a normal human, it's just that they may be made a bit clumsier in the process. Still going to be able to run much, much faster.


I thought they got the ability to make vertibirds at the end of Fallout 2 because the Chosen One steals the designs for them from the Enclave?

Canon seems to be that the CO gave the designs to someone else, like NCR or the Shi, because the West Coast BoS can't make vertibirds in NV.

As far as terrain goes, if T-51b was able to operate in the snow-dense environment of Alaska, I think they are probably pretty well suited to unfavorable terrain.

[Obsequious]

And in-game bullets weigh absolutely nothing at all. I really don't think in-game weights can be taken to mean anything.

New Vegas Hardcore mode gives bullets weight, but the point mostly sticks. A character with decent strength can walk around with multiple sets of heavy weaponry and multiple suits of armor.


Canon seems to be that the CO gave the designs to someone else, like NCR or the Shi, because the West Coast BoS can't make vertibirds in NV.

Well, the Brotherhood as seen in New Vegas is really more of an offshoot of the primary Western Brotherhood in California. Given their current state of hiding out in their bunkers, being unable to build vertibirds is understandable (whether or not they know how).

Though the NCR probably did end up with the plans. Bear Force One and a couple lines throughout the game ("Wow, you flew for the NCR?") imply as much.

And, uh, I'd hazard that context is pretty much thrown out the window by the very nature of the conflict. Since we're having two heavily separate universes collide here, we might as well make the basic issue one of "What scenario would allow us the most fair and objective representation of who'd win?"

[Somebloke]

If you follow the OP's post, Clones get artillery and air strikes. In the Star Wars universe, air-strikes also include orbital bombardments. Liberty Prime is toast.

Infantry vs. Infantry makes this a much more reasonable battle. BoS has that.
If you include artillery/air support, it goes to the clones hands down. Prime or no Prime...

Liberty Prime is not toast.

DEMOCRACY IS NOT NEGOTIABLE.

[Axolotl]

New Vegas Hardcore mode gives bullets weight, but the point mostly sticks. A character with decent strength can walk around with multiple sets of heavy weaponry and multiple suits of armor.How about judging the weight from how heavy it was in the original games where this wasn't the case?

[Fan]

Liberty Prime is not toast.

DEMOCRACY IS NOT NEGOTIABLE.

Obviously anyone who disagrees IS COMMUNIST FILTH.

BETTER DEAD THAN RED!"Note this is purely for humor, no offense is intended towards any of the fine citizens of any fine communist nation.

[Ravens_cry]

Not really an issue. Whether or not the clone troopers or Brotherhood of Steel are individually more powerful, the clone troopers have an entire galactic civilisation behind them, the Brotherhood has the preserved scraps of a dead civilisation and less then one planet worth of resources. Even if the Brotherhood of Steel could win one or two battles, they would lose the war.

[Volthawk]

Also, the clones have numbers on their side. I mean, in the Fallout universe, look at what happened before New Vegas. The NCR's forces defeated the Brotherhood since they just plain outnumbered the Brotherhood. And since the Brotherhood really doesn't recruit...

[Coidzor]

Not really an issue. Whether or not the clone troopers or Brotherhood of Steel are individually more powerful, the clone troopers have an entire galactic civilisation behind them, the Brotherhood has the preserved scraps of a dead civilisation and less then one planet worth of resources. Even if the Brotherhood of Steel could win one or two battles, they would lose the war.

Indeed, but that's not what the current thing at issue is. As stated, air and space supremacy make their destruction assured one way or another if it's what's desired by the people in control of the air and space.

[Fan]

Also, the clones have numbers on their side. I mean, in the Fallout universe, look at what happened before New Vegas. The NCR's forces defeated the Brotherhood since they just plain outnumbered the Brotherhood. And since the Brotherhood really doesn't recruit...

New idea.

Pre War AMERICA with fully activated LIBERTY PRIME, and T5-1B V.S. A single planets worth of Clone Troopers (And by this. I mean the amount that would typically be deployed against a similarly fortified planet.)

[aart lover]

If you follow the OP's post, Clones get artillery and air strikes. In the Star Wars universe, air-strikes also include orbital bombardments. Liberty Prime is toast.

Infantry vs. Infantry makes this a much more reasonable battle. BoS has that.
If you include artillery/air support, it goes to the clones hands down. Prime or no Prime...

perhaps. but the if the BoS was fast in their attack, and hard-hitting, then they could probably take the clones out b4 support got a lock on Prime.

[aart lover]

Not really an issue. Whether or not the clone troopers or Brotherhood of Steel are individually more powerful, the clone troopers have an entire galactic civilisation behind them, the Brotherhood has the preserved scraps of a dead civilisation and less then one planet worth of resources. Even if the Brotherhood of Steel could win one or two battles, they would lose the war.

i'm not talking about a war. i'm talking about a 100-man-on-each-side battle.

[Obsequious]

How about judging the weight from how heavy it was in the original games where this wasn't the case?

Well, uh, that's similarly sketchy. By original games, you mean Fallout and Fallout 2, yes?

Power Armor weighs 85 pounds in Fallout.
Power Armor weighs 42 pounds in Fallout 2.

So... yeah. We'll probably never know for certain. The one thing we can say is that it never breaks 100 pounds, even when Hardened.

The average comes out to 63.5 pounds for regular Power Armor, if you want to use that. I figure it acceptable either way.


Not really an issue. Whether or not the clone troopers or Brotherhood of Steel are individually more powerful, the clone troopers have an entire galactic civilisation behind them, the Brotherhood has the preserved scraps of a dead civilisation and less then one planet worth of resources. Even if the Brotherhood of Steel could win one or two battles, they would lose the war.

Since we're talking about a conflict that, based on setting alone, couldn't possibly happen, I figure we're free to set terms.

Terms being, according to the OP, a straight-up fight of x Brotherhood soldiers against x Clone Troopers. The question is more of a "Squad-for-squad, man-for-man, who wins?" than a "All right, Brotherhood of Steel in its entirety goes to war against the Republic. Who wins?"

[chiasaur11]

And in-game bullets weigh absolutely nothing at all. I really don't think in-game weights can be taken to mean anything.

Alright then.

In Fallout 1, where bullets did weigh something (almost everything did, even scraps of paper) the heaviest power armor was 100 pounds.

In Fallout 2, the heaviest stuff was fifty pounds. Once again, everything had a weight.

[Tazar]

Also, the clones have numbers on their side. I mean, in the Fallout universe, look at what happened before New Vegas. The NCR's forces defeated the Brotherhood since they just plain outnumbered the Brotherhood. And since the Brotherhood really doesn't recruit...

100 vs. 100, remember?

OP, if you want any kind of meaningful comparison, you need to remove the airstrikes and artillery clause.

The weight of power armor is also somewhat meaningless, as it is, after all, power armor.

[Obsequious]

It's possible that the weight would be relevant, were the battle to go on in a sea of quicksand.

[Coidzor]

Quicksand's not going to be anywhere near common in the wasteland that is the Western Former-U.S. that the scenario's currently taking place in, AFAIK.

Or, if I'm wrongly assuming he's referring to the western former-U.S., the setting is still a "desert." Sand dunes are going to give both sides some level of trouble, and even with the power assist of the armor, being bulkier and having more displacement of the sand is what matters more in regards to walking on sand dunes, IIRC.

Any information which would shed some further light on that part of things would be appreciated.

Of course, a desert is not automatically sand dunes, it could also include/refer to the badlands which are also thought of as desert, where it's basically dry, hardened ground.

[Obsequious]

For the full effect, imagine some sarcasm tags around my last post. :P

[aart lover]

yeah, it really is more of a dry, rocky, sandy area rather than an ocean of sand.