Use PC tactics against them w/o metagaming

[ffone]

So one oft-cited way to deal with PCs abusing some particular tactic/loophole is "use it against them."

(Yes, there are lots of others, like 'ban it'; this is a more specific question:)

Often, using it against the Pcs involves some metagaming on the DM's part (cooking up a fresh encounter with enemies who do the same thing). I'm looking for suggestions on a good 'in-game' way to do this: it's the BBEG, not the DM, who is doing this.

-BBEG uses scrying, etc. on PCs and has sufficient variety of resources available to 'learn' from them and then send tactic X against them. (Perhaps he's a member of a large organization like the Zhentarim, and so even if he doesn't have spell or feat X, he can call up some friend of a friend who does.)

-Are there any classes or monsters themed around mimicing what your opponents do? (Sort of like a Blue Mage or Mimic from Final Fantasy, Rogue from X-men or Peter from Heroes)?

-Is there some sort of 'involuntary simulacrum' spell for creating clones of someone else (possibly without their knowledge)?

-Refinements of these ideas and others are appreciated!

Currently I have no specific loophole in mind, and I don't have PCs who are giving me trouble...i'm just curious and I always enjoy books, movies, etc. whee the heroes have to fight villains similar to themselves, who have the same tricks or use their power against them, etc.

[blazingshadow]

ice assasin spell from frostburn. frost mages are fluffed into making these kind of simulacri to kill their enemies and replace them. it comes with the added benefit of taking 3-4 hours less to cast i think

[Godskook]

1.Are there ever survivors of fights with your PCs? Did they live long enough to tell the story?

2.Are there ever audiences to your PCs' fights? Do these people consider the PCs noteworthy enough to tell stories about them?

Point is, after a few levels worth of adventuring, PCs tend to start building a name for themselves, and change the way people around them fight(cause everyone starts warping strategies so that they can survive a fight against the PCs).

So, in other words, you have a license to metagame against any consistently used tactic of your PCs, but it isn't metagaming in the sense you're used to. See, D&D players(and other roleplayers) use the word 'wrong' compared to the rest of us gamers. The more common usage(imho) has nothing to do with breaking the "4th wall" between players and characters(or DMs and NPCs), but rather has to do with the NPCs changing from using 'general tactics' to using 'anti-PC tactics'.

And here's the clincher. If the NPCs in your campaign don't start metagaming against the PCs(in the 'react to their tactics' sense), than you, as the DM, are metagaming(breaking 4th wall). Its what would happen in a real life situation.

[JBento]

The Book of Exalted Deeds has the Aleax, a construct that is just like you, only better, and can only be hurt by you.

[Forged Fury]

Ye Olde Mirror of Opposition (but turn it into a limited-use charged item)

[dsmiles]

I like the old idea of scrying. The BBRG can scry on the adventurers (if he/she knows about them), and trains an elite task force to deal specifically with their tactics. Then you get to have the players basically facing themselves in a fight.

[ffone]

The Mirror of Opposition is perfect, right in the SRD; how did I miss that.

[Kyouhen]

Now here's an amusing idea. Have the BBEG have a Mirror of Opposition and have access to Gate. He casts Gate, having it point at the mirror. The PC on the other side is now looking into the mirror, at which point his clone jumps through the gate and attacks him. As soon as the clone is through, you close the gate. Rinse, lather, repeat whenever the BBEG feels like giving the PCs a hard time. :smalltongue:

Note that I'm not sure if a gate used to call a PC would allow the clone to pass through. You might need to scry the PC first so you know where to drop the other side of the gate. Either way, hilarity ensues. :smalltongue:

[ffone]

Now here's an amusing idea. Have the BBEG have a Mirror of Opposition and have access to Gate. He casts Gate, having it point at the mirror. The PC on the other side is now looking into the mirror, at which point his clone jumps through the gate and attacks him. As soon as the clone is through, you close the gate. Rinse, lather, repeat whenever the BBEG feels like giving the PCs a hard time. :smalltongue:

Note that I'm not sure if a gate used to call a PC would allow the clone to pass through. You might need to scry the PC first so you know where to drop the other side of the gate. Either way, hilarity ensues. :smalltongue:

Yeah, would probably need to use the 'teleporation' rather than 'calling' version of the spell. Still a wonderful idea though (b/c it's reusable and b/c I'm not sure I want the PCs to be able to loot a mirror of opposition).

[Waker]

Always remember that as the DM, you are also entitled to make certain "improvements" for the sake of a challenge. You could create a creature or class that can utilize a certain set of skills you have in mind. But if you want specific examples, the Ardent Dilettante in Planar Handbook has a fun 1/day power where if they get hit with a spell, they can cast that spell the next round, all numbers identical to the one the original caster used. Or if you have a spellcaster who likes enchantment spells, a Thrall of Melcanthet (Dragon 353) can reflect enchantment spells that she successfully saves against.
Sending a Doppelganger Chameleon can also provide an amusing surprise for a party.

But as it was mentioned, there are any number of divination spells that can let your villain find out about the party. Survivors or watchers of previous battles can provide information, as well as disgruntled henchmen or contacts who have worked with the PCs.