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Thomar_of_Uointer
2010-12-29, 02:23 PM
I was coming up with ideas for an elf paladin, and I realized that horse special mounts don't really make sense for elves. I like how WoW uses big cats as mounts for the Night Elves, and decided to work on a warhorse-equivalent creature for 3.5 edition or Pathfinder rules. I'll post it here in case anyone ever needs this sort of thing.

Anyways, here's the mount:

Nightsaber

Size/Type: Large Animal
Hit Dice: 4d8+4 (22 hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Armor Class: 16 (-1 size, +4 Dex, +3 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+10
Attack: Claw +6 melee (1d6+3)
Full Attack: 2 claws +6 melee (1d6+3) and bite +1 melee (1d4+1)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Pounce
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +8, Will +2
Abilities: Str 17, Dex 18, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 6
Skills: Balance +8, Hide +7*, Jump +11, Listen +4, Move Silently +12, Spot +4
Feats: Alertness, Weapon Finesse
Environment: Warm forests
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 2
Advancement: 4-8 HD (Large), 9-12 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: —

A nightsaber is a species of large jungle cat used by elves as mounts. The species normally lives in the wild, and must be captured and tamed. Nightsabers rarely reproduce in captivity. Nightsabers are trained for combat in difficult terrain. A nightsaber can fight while carrying a rider (like a warhorse,) but the rider cannot also attack unless he or she succeeds on a Ride check.

Pounce (Ex): If a nightsaber charges a foe, it can make a full attack.

Nightsabers have a +4 racial bonus on Balance, Hide, Jump, and Move Silently checks. *In areas of tall grass or heavy undergrowth, the Hide bonus improves to +12.

Carrying Capacity
A light load for a nightsaber is up to 258 pounds; a medium load, 259-519 pounds; and a heavy load, 520-780 pounds. A nightsaber can drag 3,900 pounds.

A fully trained nightsaber mount costs 400 gp. Captive nightsaber cubs sell for 200 gp each, while an untrained nightsaber sells for 300 gp.

EDIT: Added pricing.

FishAreWet
2010-12-30, 06:51 AM
What's wrong with just using existing big cats?

GodGoblin
2010-12-30, 07:01 AM
Looks and not too powerfull compared to the horse either, nice one. Ive always though horses for paladins were too generic.


What's wrong with just using existing big cats?

I thought that too but then you have to put an actual tiger or lion into whatever terrain the elves live in and that could lead to odd results, but if its a made up critter it can be wherever you want it!

umbrapolaris
2010-12-30, 09:34 AM
these too :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yeA7a0uS3A&feature=player_embedded

barbarian should use it :smalltongue: EPIC cartoon ^^

Debihuman
2010-12-30, 10:37 AM
Your stats are very close to the stats of the Nightsaber Cat in the D20 WoW product, Manual of Monsters published by Sword & Sorcery. They made it as a Magical Beast rather than as an Animal.

As it is a cat-like creature, I would have given it Improved Grab and a Rake attack as well.

Debby

Mordaenor
2010-12-30, 10:57 AM
I thought that too but then you have to put an actual tiger or lion into whatever terrain the elves live in and that could lead to odd results, but if its a made up critter it can be wherever you want it!

Stats are just Stats if you think about it. Unless you decide that the stats given for the Lion or Tiger REALLY don't meet your needs, there's no reason you could just use those, call the creature something else, and drop it into another Terrain.

GodGoblin
2010-12-30, 02:15 PM
Stats are just Stats if you think about it. Unless you decide that the stats given for the Lion or Tiger REALLY don't meet your needs, there's no reason you could just use those, call the creature something else, and drop it into another Terrain.

True but I can see the appeal of having it as your own creature, adds a little something that I cant quite describe. That could just be me and my love of making stuff up though, why use whats there when you can build your own! :smallcool: (Sadly a rather expensive mentality :smallfrown:)

awa
2010-12-30, 10:39 PM
personally I never got why people feel horses are human only their are a finite amount of real world creatures that can be ridden in real life and for military purposes few can even come close to the horse but have you every heard of an orc ridding a horse? it bugs me despite the fact that i am guilty of it to.
I suppose im just a hypocrite

Anyhow another good reason not to use a lion or tiger is that they are a lot more powerful than the creatures presented here which is already more powerful than a horse.

Golden-Esque
2010-12-31, 12:39 AM
personally I never got why people feel horses are human only their are a finite amount of real world creatures that can be ridden in real life and for military purposes few can even come close to the horse but have you every heard of an orc ridding a horse? it bugs me despite the fact that i am guilty of it to.
I suppose im just a hypocrite

Anyhow another good reason not to use a lion or tiger is that they are a lot more powerful than the creatures presented here which is already more powerful than a horse.

You're no hypocrite, friend :). I think what it comes down it is that horses as mounts is a concept that's very real to people. After all, we grow up with tales of Knights in shinning armor riding horses into battle, we learn about how horses were used throughout human history, and we can still see how horses have impacted human culture. The fact remains is that horses as tools is a very human concept.

When you're depicting another race and building another culture, many DMs want to use tools more befitting to that race. When you see an orc, he's not going to have a masterwork hammer to do his building, at best he'll have a rock tied to a stick. Likewise, we expect their mounts to have a wilder, more savage flare to them, be it a pissed off boar (a staple in the Warhammer world) or just primordial, feral horses. We like the tools to match their users, in a sense.

Elves are often depicted as a graceful race, elegant and deadly. That's why giant cats are often associated with them as mounts (see Warcraft). At the same time, in other settings elves are "superhuman," so we expect everything to be better, like in Warhammer where the best steeds in the world are elven steeds. What makes them different? Well sir, they're elven steeds!

Thomar_of_Uointer
2010-12-31, 03:24 AM
What's wrong with just using existing big cats?

Too powerful or too small in every case. This is equivalent to a heavy warhorse, but better suited for forest terrain


Your stats are very close to the stats of the Nightsaber Cat in the D20 WoW product, Manual of Monsters published by Sword & Sorcery. They made it as a Magical Beast rather than as an Animal.

They probably based it on the heavy warhorse just like I did. However, I won't make them magical beasts because they're not magical, they're not hybrid animals, and they're too powerful that way.


As it is a cat-like creature, I would have given it Improved Grab and a Rake attack as well.

Too powerful, and too complicated. Mounts shouldn't grapple.


Stats are just Stats if you think about it. Unless you decide that the stats given for the Lion or Tiger REALLY don't meet your needs, there's no reason you could just use those, call the creature something else, and drop it into another Terrain.

Quiet, you. :P


personally I never got why people feel horses are human only their are a finite amount of real world creatures that can be ridden in real life and for military purposes few can even come close to the horse but have you every heard of an orc ridding a horse? it bugs me despite the fact that i am guilty of it to.

Now you're making me want to stat up riding wolves. :P

Debihuman
2010-12-31, 11:03 AM
Mounts shouldn't grapple? Horses can grapple or have you not looked at their stats? A heavy warhorse has a grapple of +11.

Cats can grab an opponent with their front claws and rake with their rear claws. Trying to stay seated while that is happening might prove difficult as would trying to make your own attack. Nevertheless, if you can ride a griffon into combat with its rake, then there should be no problem with a cat doing the same. I think you are just hamstringing this beast unnecessarily.

Debby

Thomar_of_Uointer
2011-01-01, 04:59 PM
Mounts shouldn't grapple? Horses can grapple or have you not looked at their stats? A heavy warhorse has a grapple of +11.

Cats can grab an opponent with their front claws and rake with their rear claws. Trying to stay seated while that is happening might prove difficult as would trying to make your own attack. Nevertheless, if you can ride a griffon into combat with its rake, then there should be no problem with a cat doing the same. I think you are just hamstringing this beast unnecessarily.

Debby

Well, if I give it that ability, what should I take away from the creature to keep it balanced as an alternative to the heavy warhorse?

awa
2011-01-01, 05:01 PM
you could make them less agile your mount is more agile than most of the big cats.
edit also lower their natural armor to match a warhorses

was this supposed to be balanced against a heavy war hose if so the night saber is vastly better no wheres close to being balanced

Thomar_of_Uointer
2011-01-03, 01:06 AM
you could make them less agile your mount is more agile than most of the big cats.
edit also lower their natural armor to match a warhorses

was this supposed to be balanced against a heavy war hose if so the night saber is vastly better no wheres close to being balanced

I doubt you even glanced at the Heavy Warhorse stats.

The cat has pounce, some skills, and a higher AC (the AC difference is significant, but I think that's mitigated by Mounted Combat.) The warhorse is faster, has more hp, and does slightly more damage.

Basically, this is an alternative mount that is superior to horses in forest environments, but inferior in plains environments. It's also supposed to be a jungle cat (leopard), not a plains cat (lion).

Lowering the natural armor by -1 may not be a bad idea, though.

awa
2011-01-03, 06:42 PM
+4 to 4 different stats including a bonus to balance which is extremely useful and pounce not to mention its ac is 3 higher than a warhorse.

the cat is a better combatant and far more versatile than a horse.
i resent the comment that i did not look at the heavy warhorse

Thomar_of_Uointer
2011-01-03, 08:54 PM
+4 to 4 different stats including a bonus to balance which is extremely useful and pounce not to mention its ac is 3 higher than a warhorse.

the cat is a better combatant and far more versatile than a horse.
i resent the comment that i did not look at the heavy warhorse

"+4 to 4 different stats?" What are you talking about? I think you're looking at the wrong stat block. There are four horse entries.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/horse.htm#warhorseHeavy

You're right about the AC, though. I'm docking their natural armor by -1, to keep them in line with tigers (the only comparable cat.)

awa
2011-01-03, 09:11 PM
that's a typo i meant skills not stats

Thomar_of_Uointer
2011-01-03, 09:45 PM
that's a typo i meant skills not stats

Okay. I believe that the speed difference (40' compared to 50' and Run) makes up for the skill differences. It doesn't matter if the cat has pounce, a war charger will beat a cat in the open because it has the speed to charge first.

Jarrick
2011-01-03, 11:30 PM
This makes me want to make lesser dire boars, bears, and dire wolves for use as mounts.

Thomar_of_Uointer
2011-01-04, 12:31 AM
This makes me want to make lesser dire boars, bears, and dire wolves for use as mounts.

Fine, fine! :smallbiggrin:

Just give me some time to work on it...