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View Full Version : A Thrallherd's Thralls: Can they be freed? Detected?



Urpriest
2010-12-29, 04:06 PM
I'm building a high-psionics setting, and I've been pondering what to do with Thrallherds. This is a relatively good-aligned setting, so Thrallherds will be restricted, but I'm not sure how much restriction would be necessary. The problem is that I can't see any clear way of discerning whether someone is a thrall/believer. I'd also be interested in knowing if there are any clear ways of freeing someone from thrall/believerhood.

Greenish
2010-12-29, 04:14 PM
I'd also be interested in knowing if there are any clear ways of freeing someone from thrall/believerhood.None that I know of.

I've always found it curious that a PrC that strips other thinking beings from their free will just by existing has no alignment restrictions.

Grelna the Blue
2010-12-29, 04:15 PM
Are you playing with full magic/psionic transparency? If so, it seems as if Dispel Magic and/or Break Enchantment would work to free a thrall and Detect Magic would help in detecting them.

Greenish
2010-12-29, 04:17 PM
Are you playing with full magic/psionic transparency? If so, it seems as if Dispel Magic and/or Break Enchantment would work to free a thrall and Detect Magic would help in detecting them.Is becoming a thrall an effect with permanent duration? (Instead of, say, Instant.)

NEO|Phyte
2010-12-29, 04:19 PM
Is becoming a thrall an effect with permanent duration? (Instead of, say, Instant.)


Thrallherd (Ex)
A thrallherd who has just entered the class sends out a subtle psychic call for servants, and that call is answered. Essentially, the character gains something akin to the Leadership feat, but with some important differences.

Those who answer a thrallherd’s call are not referred to as cohorts and followers, but rather as thralls and believers, respectively. They do not appear because they admire the character and want to serve her, but because a hidden psychic resonance connects the thrallherd and her servants.

It is unclear exactly HOW it works, but given that it is (Ex), I doubt it would fall under being dispellable via dispel magic.

JeenLeen
2010-12-29, 04:21 PM
No way is mentioned in the book, but the fluff says the thrallherd emits a sort of psionic field that attracts those of low will. I could see it being ruled that this field is detectable by the psionic equivalent of Detect Magic. This may or may not make the thrall's detectable, but it would make the thrallherd's general area detectable.

Mindrape and spells of equal mental manipulation should be able to by rewiring the mind's subjection to that field. Casting Mind Blank or equivalents may also do such. It's exactly control or possession, nor does it have a Charm or Compulsion descriptor (indeed, it's just something passive) so I don't think the Protection from X spells or things protecting from general manipulation should do anything.

Since the thralls are gained through a field the thrallherd emits, I could see that, if a thrall is removed from the area of the field, they would start to recover.

If you are going to make such things I case, I do think you should tell the PCs if any of them are considering the thrallherd PrC. It doesn't sound like they are, given what you said of the setting, but I know I'd be annoyed to find out there was a weakness added to a class I took.

Lapak
2010-12-29, 05:28 PM
The wording of the class feature left me with the impression that it isn't so much something the thrallherd DOES to them as it is a compatibility between them. As I read it, it's not something that's detectable, because it's not something that the Thrallherd is targeting the thrall with in any way; it's just a side-effect of the fact that the character is psionic. It's like the thrall is a wineglass and the thrallherd is a tuning fork which resonates at the appropriate tone: you can't look at the wineglass and tell that it's vulnerable, but when the tuning fork is struck nearby the glass quivers or shatters without ever targeting the glass or even knowing that it exists. It's not something either one is doing actively, it's just a property that they share that causes an effect.

For the same reason, I'd rule that the only way to shut it down would be to shut down psionics altogether in the area - just as casting Silence would keep the tuning fork from shattering the glass.

EDIT: And even that would only suppress it, really.

Chilingsworth
2010-12-29, 05:36 PM
You could always free the thralls by killing the thrallherd controlling them.

Alternatively, you might be able to get the thrallherd to release them voluntarily? (Though then he/she would just take other thralls...)

Gralamin
2010-12-29, 05:39 PM
It is unclear exactly HOW it works, but given that it is (Ex), I doubt it would fall under being dispellable via dispel magic.

And it would also be immune to many attempts to break it (Null psionics, etc.). I could see the ruling that a Psychic Reformation could "free" an individual - using the idea of a tuning fork and a glass, you change the properties of the glass so the tuning fork no longer breaks it.

That said, you may be reading into the class too much. There is nothing in the class that explicitly states it strips free will from Thralls and believers, only that they are called and somehow connected to the Thrallherd.

Dr.Gunsforhands
2010-12-30, 12:16 AM
The way I've always seen it, the thralls have always just been the same sort of people who would have gone into henching anyway, and it's not enough to pull in anyone who objects to the thrallherd's motives or methods too much. (Well, unless he's a chaotic thrallherd who likes constructive criticism, I guess, but those won't be the same ones who would go around crushing people's wills at random.)

Essentially, it gets the same people that you could have gotten with actual leadership, but you're letting your psychic broadcast mojo do all of the inspiring and recruiting for you.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-12-30, 08:29 AM
If it is a mind-affecting effect, then Protection from Evil should suppress the effect, as should Mind Blank

Fouredged Sword
2010-12-30, 09:43 AM
I could see a faction of anti thrallherd psionic flavored paladin of freedoms hunting down thrall herds and beheading the leader to free the thralls.

Build Paladin of freedom 2 / Wilder x / slayer x. Good Cha useage and high saves/touch AC.

ShneekeyTheLost
2010-12-30, 01:26 PM
I could see a faction of anti thrallherd psionic flavored paladin of freedoms hunting down thrall herds and beheading the leader to free the thralls.

Build Paladin of freedom 2 / Wilder x / slayer x. Good Cha useage and high saves/touch AC.

Pal2/PsiWar4/Slayer10/x4 seems a better build, IMO, even if it is slightly more MAD (Wis for manifesting rather than CHA), however if there was a way to have your bonus to saves key off of Wis, you can still be single stat dependent. It's got a higher BAB so you meet the requirements quicker, and has better choice of powers you are more likely to use.

Since you're already talking CG pally of freedom, you can end with Pyrokeneticist and have Flame Lash for battlefield control and Weapon Afire for more damage per hit.

Volthawk
2010-12-30, 02:04 PM
Pal2/PsiWar4/Slayer10/x4 seems a better build, IMO, even if it is slightly more MAD (Wis for manifesting rather than CHA), however if there was a way to have your bonus to saves key off of Wis, you can still be single stat dependent. It's got a higher BAB so you meet the requirements quicker, and has better choice of powers you are more likely to use.

Since you're already talking CG pally of freedom, you can end with Pyrokeneticist and have Flame Lash for battlefield control and Weapon Afire for more damage per hit.

There is the Serenity feat from the Dragon Compendium.

Urpriest
2010-12-30, 04:14 PM
Another question: is there a way to detect whether or not someone is a Thrallherd? Some psionic or magical way of determining what class features or extraordinary abilities somebody has?

My goal here is to have a way for the government to check up on known Thrallherds to make sure that the thralls/believers are not being abused.

Chilingsworth
2010-12-30, 04:17 PM
Well, there's the "Know Opponent" spell in the Spell Compendium. It lets you learn strengths and weaknesses about a creature. You might have to be a high level caster to get enough "strengths" for the thrallheard abilities to show up, though.