Wizard-y Prestige Class to Fill a Gap (3.5)

[Bladesinger]

Okay, so I'm jumping into a 3.5 campaign with one of my friends, and I'm playing a CN drow non-specialized wizard. I'm starting at level seven, and I know I'm going to go Archmage at level 14 (for flavor/roleplaying reasons; I know it may not technically be the most optimal choice). The thing is, I don't want to go straight wizard until then--I want a cool prestige class to fill in the gap until it's Archmage time. The DM has offered to wave the requirements on several PrCs so that I may take them as early as level 6, if I so choose. Right now, I'm deciding between Divine Oracle, Geometer, Loremaster, and Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil, though I'm sure that I he'll give me the same deal for anything that has similar or lesser requirements. As far as I know, all books and sources are up for grabs, as long as I run the ideas by him, first.

Roleplaying-wise, the character is concerned with doing what he wants, when he wants, and resents anyone telling him what to do. (You know; your standard chaotic neutral.) He wants to be an Archmage because it was his ambition before he was run out of his drow city (cliche drow house war stuff) and forced to flee to the surface. His basic goal is to become as powerful as possible, and then challenge his city's archmage for supremacy. Once he destroys the archmage, he'll either re-establish himself as the city's new head wizard (the head house would have little choice, he figures), destroy the city, or just leave satisfied with his victory--he hasn't decided which, yet. For flavor reasons, I'm starting to lean away from Divine Oracle, but I haven't ruled it out, yet, since specialization isn't a requirement. This character recognizes the power in each school of magic, so he isn't likely to take a PrC that focuses on one school (such as Red Wizard).

So basically, what ideas do you guys have? Please, by all means, lay 'em on me. I appreciate the comments.

Edit: I forgot to say that the XP penalties have been waved for multi-classing. I don't know if that will impact any of your suggestions, but I thought I should mention it, nonetheless.

[eggynack]

Fatespinner could work. It has really easy requirements (pretty much just profession: gambling) and is all about controlling your fate. It is also fairly powerful.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil. All of your prerequisites will help you qualify for Archmage. 6 + 7 = 13, for entry into Archmage at 14, right on schedule.

Although, IIRC, Iot7V requires at least a 4th level spell, so you'll need to wait for 7th level, with entry into Archmage at 15th, barring extreme cheese which will get DMG's thrown at your head.

Fatespinner also requires 4th level spells.

[Psyren]

Multi-classing penalties won't affect you anyway, they don't apply to prestige classes.

How is your LA? What is your ECL now?

I definitely have a soft spot for Geometer, though if you have a Blessed Book you can safely skip it. Iot7FV is your best bet power-wise, and the protection it offers would easily appeal to a paranoid drow.

[Bladesinger]

How is your LA? What is your ECL now?
Yikes. THAT'S the thing I forgot to mention. I knew I was forgetting something. This is a character I had in another campaign, where I already managed to buy off the LA. This DM is kind enough to let that carry over, so to answer your question, my LA is currently +0, and my ECL is 7. Sorry about that.

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

[tuesdayscoming]

Something about Iot7fV doesn't seem to fit fluffwise, though. The idea of a Drow (cave elf) being a 'Wizard of Light' is a bit off. I guess it could work if RPed correctly, though.

That aside, it's a fantastically powerful class that could be a lot of fun. I would suggest you check out the Incantatrix, too. The PGtF version, if I recall correctly, was significantly better than its 3.0 counterpart, and is comparable to the power level of Iot7fV. I also think that it fits better with the "I am a master of all things magical" thing you're going for.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Iot7V's skill rank requirements (12 various) means you'd have to enter at wizard level 9, which is difficult given your stated goal of Archmage and the fact that Iot7V isn't really a dipping PrC. Good one-level dips are Mindbender (with the Mindsight feat on top) and Wayfarer Guide. Fatespinner is good for four levels.

I guess a final build would look something like this:

Wizard 5/Mindbender 1/Wizard +1/Fatespinner 4/Wayfarer Guide 1/Wizard +1/Archmage X

Generalists of all flavors might want to look at Domain Wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizardVariantDomainWiz ard), and Elves of most stripes often like the Elven Generalist racial substitution level(s) from Races of the Wild.

Only go Incantatrix if your DM is prepared for it. It makes Iot7V look underpowered.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Iot7V's skill rank requirements (12 various) means you'd have to enter at wizard level 9, which is difficult given your stated goal of Archmage and the fact that Iot7V isn't really a dipping PrC. Good one-level dips are Mindbender (with the Mindsight feat on top) and Wayfarer Guide. Fatespinner is good for four levels.

I guess a final build would look something like this:

Wizard 5/Mindbender 1/Wizard +1/Fatespinner 4/Wayfarer Guide 1/Wizard +1/Archmage X

Generalists of all flavors might want to look at Domain Wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizardVariantDomainWiz ard), and Elves of most stripes often like the Elven Generalist racial substitution level(s) from Races of the Wild.

Only go Incantatrix if your DM is prepared for it. It makes Iot7V look underpowered.

Wayfarer's Guide is completely worthless, there's better dips. Mage of the Arcane Order, for example. It costs ya a feat on a practically worthless Cooperative Magic feat (unless you use minionmancy, in which case it gets broken easily), but ya get bonus feats back, so it balances out well. It also lets you pull a spell out of your nether regions for when the biological waste product hits the rotating propeller blades.

In fact, I could easily see Wiz5/MotAO2/Fatespinner4/Iot7V2/AM/Iot7V

[tuesdayscoming]

Elves of most stripes often like the Elven Generalist racial substitution level(s) from Races of the Wild.

This. That is, of course, if you weren't already level 7. Extra spell slot at all levels for the low, low cost of NOT BEING A SPECIALIST? Yes, please.


Only go Incantatrix if your DM is prepared for it. It makes Iot7V look underpowered.

Lol, I'll grant that it's crazy awesome powerful, sure. But making Iot7V look weak? I don't know. I think that Inc. is probably better offensively, Iot7V is better defensively. Different play styles, but I still think they're pretty comparable.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

This. That is, of course, if you weren't already level 7. Extra spell slot at all levels for the low, low cost of NOT BEING A SPECIALIST? Yes, please.



Lol, I'll grant that it's crazy awesome powerful, sure. But making Iot7V look weak? I don't know. I think that Inc. is probably better offensively, Iot7V is better defensively. Different play styles, but I still think they're pretty comparable.

Metamagic for free? That's simply a win button. Defensively, Incantatrix makes you able to put up Immune to Yes as a Persisted buff, which lasts 24 hours. Persist the following spells: Foresight, Mind Blank, Death Ward, Freedom of Movement, Globe of Invulnerability, possibly AMF if you can shape it, Delay Death, and a couple others. You can *try* to hit me. But it won't work. No, not even then.

[tuesdayscoming]

Metamagic for free? That's simply a win button. Defensively, Incantatrix makes you able to put up Immune to Yes as a Persisted buff, which lasts 24 hours. Persist the following spells: Foresight, Mind Blank, Death Ward, Freedom of Movement, Globe of Invulnerability, possibly AMF if you can shape it, Delay Death, and a couple others. You can *try* to hit me. But it won't work. No, not even then.

And then an Iot7V fries you with his level 10 capstone.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Wayfarer's Guide is completely worthless, there's better dips. Mage of the Arcane Order, for example. It costs ya a feat on a practically worthless Cooperative Magic feat (unless you use minionmancy, in which case it gets broken easily), but ya get bonus feats back, so it balances out well. It also lets you pull a spell out of your nether regions for when the biological waste product hits the rotating propeller blades.

In fact, I could easily see Wiz5/MotAO2/Fatespinner4/Iot7V2/AM/Iot7VI figured MotAO had too much specific flavor, and WFG, while weak, is better than familiar advancement.

On another note, the Iot7V first has to target the Incantatrix to use Kaleidoscopic Doom.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

And then an Iot7V fries you with his level 10 capstone.

Which is then completely ignored by the Incantatrix... since with Persisted Delay Death at insane CL, he can't die.

[tuesdayscoming]

Which is then completely ignored by the Incantatrix... since with Persisted Delay Death at insane CL, he can't die.

Point taken. Incantatrix = bucket of win.

[The Glyphstone]

And then an Iot7V fries you with his level 10 capstone.

It's a level 7 capstone, to be pedantic. The problem is that it's a lot easier to optimize anti-dispel than it is to optimize dispel, until you get Disjunction and the entire question is moot anyways.

[Keld Denar]

I'm a big fan of Divine Oracle2/Loremaster3 for filler. The prereqs satisfy each other, and the bonus feat you get for Loremaster makes up for the loss. The evasion you get from DO is handy, especially if you use Superior Resistance to beef up your undoubtedly saggy Ref save. Loremaster is mostly icing on the cake at that point. If you take LM4, you get to learn a language. ANY language. Learn Druidic, then talk smack to all the tree huggers you know, just because you can.

Also, Wayfarer Guide is an AWESOME 1 level dip. You can never take along too many people with a Teleport. WG gives you effectively a +3 CL boost when calcing out carrying capacity, on top of the spellcasting level it gives you. Prereqs are almost inconsequential as well, couple ranks in Know: Geography.

[umbrapolaris]

incantatrix is the best choice, i cant make a wizard without it, and it fit to the ambitious power-hungry kind of character.

[Bladesinger]

incantatrix is the best choice, i cant make a wizard without it, and it fit to the ambitious power-hungry kind of character.

The problem that I see with Incantrix is that the "Focused Studies" feature would make me give up a school of magic, which I just can't see this character doing; he enjoys employing all manners of arcane might at his disposal too much to give up even a single school. I have to agree with you that it is incredibly powerful, however.

[umbrapolaris]

The problem that I see with Incantrix is that the "Focused Studies" feature would make me give up a school of magic, which I just can't see this character doing; he enjoys employing all manners of arcane might at his disposal too much to give up even a single school. I have to agree with you that it is incredibly powerful, however.

it is why you have in the supplement "Lost Empire of faerun" 3 feats that allows you to recover a forbidden school (spell reprieve -> item reprieve -> arcane transfiguration). the only prerequisites for that tree of feats is to be a specialist wizard, an incantatrix can be considered as a specialist wizard PrC.

[Da Beast]

I like wizard 6/geometer 4/loremaster 6/archmage 4 for a studious master of magic build. Lots of neat abilities but nothing overpowering like Incantatrix or Iot7FV. By splitting your levels into 6/4/6/4 you maximize your BAB and saves as well. The only real weakness is wasting a bunch of feats to get into loremaster and archmage, but if your DM is lenient on entry requirements that shouldn't be too much of a problem. At the very least you can probably get him to let you use the same skill focus to get into both of them.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

The problem that I see with Incantrix is that the "Focused Studies" feature would make me give up a school of magic, which I just can't see this character doing; he enjoys employing all manners of arcane might at his disposal too much to give up even a single school. I have to agree with you that it is incredibly powerful, however.

The problem is that Incantatrix is not a dip, it's a 10 level surge into Total Power Overload. The ability to do metamagic for a simple Spellcraft check is nearly at the end of the progression, so it's not something you can simply dip with impunity.

What you describe is not, however, a problem. You see, you still get to keep all the spells you picked up prior to getting into the PrC. So you could have already picked up, for example, Enervation, then entered and banned Necromancy. You can still cast Enervation, although you'll never pick up Banshee's Wail. Oh no, what ever shall you do without a spell that kills party members first? Or Finger of Death! However shall you live without being forced to get into melee range to force a Fort save or die effect? Now you shall never know the thrill of having to close with the sharp pointies, but must be content to wreak oblivion at a safe distance of a half mile or so.

Same can be said of the Enchantment or Evocation colleges. Later end spells mostly suck. Well, okay, so Evocation does have Contingency, but that's why you pick up Greater Shadow Evocation, and also be able to throw around Forcecages without blowing 1500 a pop.

So yea, there's lots of things you can do with it.

But don't dip it. That's like shelling out six figures for a pasta rocket, then driving off in a Chevy Nova...

[kme]

I would go Iot7fv, especially since you can enter at level 6 due to that houserule. After that, you can still pick one level of Loremaster and max UMD before you enter Archmage at 14.

If you don't want Iot7fv you can go with only Loremaster or something else but consider that going straight wizard 10 first for the bonus feat (and improved familiar) will outweigh the cost + benefit of most PrCs.

[Foryn Gilnith]

I was vaguely thinking of Escalation Mage when I read the OP, and when the thread suggested Incantatrix it came fully into my mind. The stats can be found at http://eberronunlimited.wikidot.com/escalation-mage
Its class features emulate metamagic if you can make a caster level check. It's like Incantatrix except not disgustingly powerful.

[Kobold-Bard]

Master Generalist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139779)?

Self Indulgent? Possibly.
But it also fits very well.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I would go Iot7fv, especially since you can enter at level 6 due to that houserule. After that, you can still pick one level of Loremaster and max UMD before you enter Archmage at 14.

If you don't want Iot7fv you can go with only Loremaster or something else but consider that going straight wizard 10 first for the bonus feat (and improved familiar) will outweigh the cost + benefit of most PrCs.

I agree, although there's no need to dip loremaster. Wiz6/Iot7V7 = 13. Next level is 14, which is... Archmage. Ta-da.

Almost all the feats required for Sevenfold Veil are also going to allow you to qualify for Archmage, so it's really an optimal route.

[Defiant]

Specialize and become a Master Specialist. Losing two schools is worth getting the extra spells.

[JoshuaZ]

Have you considered Wyrm Wizard from Dragon Magic? It has very easy qualifications (9 ranks in Knowledge(Arcana) and Spellcraft, able to speak Draconic, a metamagic feat, and able to prepare first level arcane spells). The fluff might need some reworking since it emphasizes working with a dragon to learn magical secrets, but that could be easily modified as having discovered some set of ancient lore, maybe from a dragon's spellbook or the like. The abilities you get even for a low level dip can be helpful and would fit the whole "master of all arcane magic" your character seems to be going for.


Specialize and become a Master Specialist. Losing two schools is worth getting the extra spells.

The OP specifically said they wanted all schools for flavor reasons...

[kme]

I agree, although there's no need to dip loremaster. Wiz6/Iot7V7 = 13. Next level is 14, which is... Archmage. Ta-da.

Almost all the feats required for Sevenfold Veil are also going to allow you to qualify for Archmage, so it's really an optimal route.

Or better yet Wiz5/Iot7fv7/Lor1 :smalltongue:.

[Keld Denar]

I agree, although there's no need to dip loremaster. Wiz6/Iot7V7 = 13. Next level is 14, which is... Archmage. Ta-da.


Or better yet Wiz5/Iot7fv7/Lor1 :smalltongue:.

Both are illegal without serious shananigans. Iot7V has heavy skill rank reqs on it. 12 ranks means level 9, so you can't take your first level until 10+.

[Vistella]

Both are illegal without serious shananigans. Iot7V has heavy skill rank reqs on it. 12 ranks means level 9, so you can't take your first level until 10+.

reading for the win:

"The DM has offered to wave the requirements on several PrCs so that I may take them as early as level 6, if I so choose"