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tuesdayscoming
2010-12-30, 10:58 PM
Pretty much what the title says. d20srd has the following to say about the Outsider type:

Outsider Type

An outsider is at least partially composed of the essence (but not necessarily the material) of some plane other than the Material Plane. Some creatures start out as some other type and become outsiders when they attain a higher (or lower) state of spiritual existence.
Features

An outsider has the following features.

* 8-sided Hit Dice.
* Base attack bonus equal to total Hit Dice (as fighter).
* Good Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves.
* Skill points equal to (8 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die.

Traits

An outsider possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

* Darkvision out to 60 feet.
* Unlike most other living creatures, an outsider does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an outsider. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to life. An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be.
* Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
* Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Outsiders not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Outsiders are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
* Outsiders breathe, but do not need to eat or sleep (although they can do so if they wish). Native outsiders breathe, eat, and sleep.


If I become an outsider, do I get ALL of these benefits? Like, do I immediately get full BAB, good saves, and crazy skills retroactively for all my existing HD?

Sorry for the noob question. Somehow it's never come up before.

Urpriest
2010-12-30, 11:01 PM
Pretty much what the title says. d20srd has the following to say about the Outsider type:

Outsider Type

An outsider is at least partially composed of the essence (but not necessarily the material) of some plane other than the Material Plane. Some creatures start out as some other type and become outsiders when they attain a higher (or lower) state of spiritual existence.
Features

An outsider has the following features.

* 8-sided Hit Dice.
* Base attack bonus equal to total Hit Dice (as fighter).
* Good Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves.
* Skill points equal to (8 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die.

Traits

An outsider possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

* Darkvision out to 60 feet.
* Unlike most other living creatures, an outsider does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an outsider. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to life. An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be.
* Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
* Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Outsiders not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Outsiders are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
* Outsiders breathe, but do not need to eat or sleep (although they can do so if they wish). Native outsiders breathe, eat, and sleep.


If I become an outsider, do I get ALL of these benefits? Like, do I immediately get full BAB, good saves, and crazy skills retroactively for all my existing HD?

Sorry for the noob question. Somehow it's never come up before.

The benefits like BAB, saves, etc., are for racial hit dice, not hit dice in general.

Greenish
2010-12-30, 11:01 PM
If I become an outsider, do I get ALL of these benefits? Like, do I immediately get full BAB, good saves, and crazy skills retroactively for all my existing HD?No, those only affect Racial Hit Dice, and even then you probably don't change what you have, since most ways of gaining a different type after character creation would also saddle you with the [Augmented] subtype.

Xiander
2010-12-30, 11:09 PM
On a slightly related sidenote: If I construct a tiefling character (one hitdice outsider with a levelajustmen of one) would i get any of these benefits on the level taken up by the levelajustment? Or would i for example at level two be a level one tiefling rouge?

tuesdayscoming
2010-12-30, 11:11 PM
On a slightly related sidenote: If I construct a tiefling character (one hitdice outsider with a levelajustmen of one) would i get any of these benefits on the level taken up by the levelajustment? Or would i for example at level two be a level one tiefling rouge?

Level one tiefling rogue, unfortunately. LA is just empty space where levels should be.

Greenish
2010-12-30, 11:11 PM
On a slightly related sidenote: If I construct a tiefling character (one hitdice outsider with a levelajustmen of one) would i get any of these benefits on the level taken up by the levelajustment? Or would i for example at level two be a level one tiefling rouge?At Effective Character Level 2, you'd be level 1 tiefling rogue.

Telasi
2010-12-30, 11:15 PM
On a slightly related sidenote: If I construct a tiefling character (one hitdice outsider with a levelajustmen of one) would i get any of these benefits on the level taken up by the levelajustment? Or would i for example at level two be a level one tiefling rouge?

Tieflings are native outsiders, iirc. You have no racial HD as a tiefling, so no. You would get the features of a level one rogue, the tiefling racial features, and the inherent benefits of being an outsider with the native subtype, but no HD based ones.

Xiander
2010-12-30, 11:19 PM
Thats harsh... I can see why people make threads about making leveladjustments easier to swallow. And here i thought Tiefling rouge was pretty cool.

(Still going to do it, only now i know it is a suboptimal choice.)

Greenish
2010-12-30, 11:22 PM
Thats harsh... I can see why people make threads about making leveladjustments easier to swallow. And here i thought Tiefling rouge was pretty cool.

(Still going to do it, only now i know it is a suboptimal choice.)Darkvision is nifty, since otherwise it'd be hard to shank people on dark alleys (since any concealment turns SA off), martial weapon proficiencies are handy. The stat adjustments are good. All in all, it's not so bad.

You might ask your DM about LA buyoff (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm), though.

Tyndmyr
2010-12-30, 11:37 PM
Thats harsh... I can see why people make threads about making leveladjustments easier to swallow. And here i thought Tiefling rouge was pretty cool.

(Still going to do it, only now i know it is a suboptimal choice.)

It is decent if you do one of two things:

1. LA buyoff. One LA isn't a big deal to buy off, and tiefling is pretty worthwhile if buyoff is in effect.

2. Lesser Tiefling. No LA to buy off. A strong racial choice then, albeit without the outsider type.

Master_Rahl22
2010-12-30, 11:44 PM
Or you could go with Lesser Tiefling from Player's Guide to Faerun. Exactly the same as Tiefling only you're not an outsider and you have no LA.

VirOath
2010-12-30, 11:47 PM
It is decent if you do one of two things:

1. LA buyoff. One LA isn't a big deal to buy off, and tiefling is pretty worthwhile if buyoff is in effect.

2. Lesser Tiefling. No LA to buy off. A strong racial choice then, albeit without the outsider type.

To expand on the Lesser Tiefling. It is a native outsider, as well as being a humanoid. This means that it is able to be targeted by spells that only affect humanoids like Charm Person, as well as spells that affect outsiders or deal extra damage.

You have both types, and to determine the outcome of a spell or effect on your character you would pick the worst of the two.

Cuaqchi
2010-12-30, 11:55 PM
One thing to remember with the Outsider type is that there are a few low level "I win" spells that do not effect you, and for certain polymorph effects your options are much larger than as a humanoid.

Examples - Hold Person (Effects Humanoids - Your not humanoid, no save needed Immune), Charm Person (Same Deal), and most other X Person spells don't effect you as you aren't humanoid.
In addition as an outsider you can Alter Self into any number of demons/devils/archons/angels/etc. once you have the hit dice since as an outsider they are the same racial TYPE as you are.

Tyndmyr
2010-12-31, 12:27 AM
To expand on the Lesser Tiefling. It is a native outsider, as well as being a humanoid. This means that it is able to be targeted by spells that only affect humanoids like Charm Person, as well as spells that affect outsiders or deal extra damage.

You have both types, and to determine the outcome of a spell or effect on your character you would pick the worst of the two.

This is more correct. It's generally a negative to have both types as a rogue, but tbh, it's not nearly as much of a negative as a lost level is.

Darrin
2010-12-31, 12:40 AM
It is decent if you do one of two things:

1. LA buyoff. One LA isn't a big deal to buy off, and tiefling is pretty worthwhile if buyoff is in effect.

2. Lesser Tiefling. No LA to buy off. A strong racial choice then, albeit without the outsider type.

3. Savage Progression Tiefling (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a). +2 Dex, -2 Cha. Racial abilities nerfed a bit, but still has the Outsider type. When you want the rest of your racial abilities, you can take your racial template level whenever you like... or never take it at all, if you prefer.

Runestar
2010-12-31, 02:19 AM
Outsider does open up some choice polymorph options though. Like PAO'ing your lv20 monk into a planetar or cornugon. :smalltongue:

Goonthegoof
2010-12-31, 05:42 AM
You can already do that, just use PaO twice.

hamishspence
2010-12-31, 06:55 AM
To expand on the Lesser Tiefling. It is a native outsider, as well as being a humanoid. This means that it is able to be targeted by spells that only affect humanoids like Charm Person, as well as spells that affect outsiders or deal extra damage.

Yes. And no.

They're not Native Outsiders, they are Humanoids with the Planetouched subtype.

The Planetouched subtype means that any spell or effect that specifically works on outsiders, affects them too.

So Banishment would work on them.

A true tiefling, is a Native Outsider.

Curmudgeon
2010-12-31, 10:35 AM
You can already do that, just use PaO twice.
The spell stacking rules keep the second casting from doing anything that you couldn't achieve with one casting; that includes changing the duration. (It gets awfully tiring hearing people present this scheme as if it actually worked.)