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Another_Poet
2010-12-31, 01:23 AM
This is not a 3.5 thread, it's a PF thread.

I play a Wiz20 fighting a series of arena challenges against a Pal20.

The GM has ruled that my Ring of Counterspells (Dispel Magic) is not triggered when the Paladin casts a targeted dispel on one of my spell effects, such as Mirror Image or Overland Flight.

Let's leave aside whether it's a good ruling.

Is there another way to Dispel-proof my spells?

Mongoose87
2010-12-31, 01:46 AM
Well, you could work at increasing your caster level.

tyckspoon
2010-12-31, 02:05 AM
Swift action: taunt him.
Move action: taunt him some more.
Standard action: Win.

Seriously, I just.. wouldn't worry about it. The paladin is choosing to use one of his more valuable resources (roughly equal to one your level 6-7 slots) on a low-success option (his CL is 3 lower than yours, which means he needs 14+ to successfully dispel that single buff) that doesn't materially advance his attempts to beat you- it does nothing significant to damage you or hamper your abilities. If the buff is really important to your tactic, just recast it; the Paladin will run out of Dispel slots and/or fail his Dispel check before you run out of slots for your buff. If it's not important, but the Paladin thinks it is so he targets it.. congratulations, you get a free turn. Use one of the literally dozens of effective options you have to get closer to actually winning the fight.

(I'd recommend just using the Spell Turning spell, but if your DM doesn't think the Dispel Magic will trigger your Ring he probably won't agree it satisfies the 'spell targeted on you' clause to activate Spell Turning either.)

Another_Poet
2010-12-31, 02:28 AM
if your DM doesn't think the Dispel Magic will trigger your Ring he probably won't agree it satisfies the 'spell targeted on you' clause to activate Spell Turning either.)

Correct.

It's harder than I thought. "Taunt him" would be the right answer in 3.5 but the PF paladin is hella versatile at high levels. Especially with 500,000 gp worth of goodies on him.

I don't really want to re-cast my buffs every round.

VirOath
2010-12-31, 02:32 AM
If you can't raise your caster level enough, there are other fun ways. Such as locking him down directly, Daze or other effects that keep him from acting.

Or if your DM will agree to it, get Flyby Attack, while you are under the effect of a fly spell, you can cast anytime during a move. This will allow you to abuse Line of Sight against his own spells. And let you place fun traps, like Wall Of Suppression. Get creative.

And if you are really concerned about it, grab Leadership, have the cohort be as small of a race as the DM will allow, have a shrink person spell on them, have their hide ranks nice and high, add in greater invisibility on them and you've got a pocket character. Now have them be a caster devoted to counterspelling.

GoodbyeSoberDay
2010-12-31, 03:04 AM
I assume this is PF only, no 3.5 material, which takes out many, many options. The simplest way to avoid targeted dispels is to avoid being targeted at all. Various illusions help with this, but they are often short duration and can be countered. How your buffs work in this arena duel might help us discern what exactly you might be able to put up before the fight begins. I'm AFB from PF; is there a continuous true sight item? That might ruin your day.

Do you know what the arena is going to be like? If it's relatively out in the open, Greater Invisibility's weaknesses can be circumvented. Fly out of extra-sensory range and fire away with long range spells. Just make sure to keep moving; float like a butterfly, sting like a no-save win spell.

If you're desperate, the Planar Binding line can solve almost any problem, but you'll feel dirty afterwards.

Amiel
2010-12-31, 03:05 AM
I agree with finding ways to raise your CL; there's Persistent Spell (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/advancedFeats.html#persistent-spell-%28metamagic%29), which forces your Pal opponent to make another save against the same DC. If he fails that DC, he suffers the full spell effect.

You could always Heighten or Extend the spell.

Another_Poet
2010-12-31, 03:07 AM
I really appreciate the creative responses, and I don't want to seem like I'm pooping on them, but I should clarify:


If you can't raise your caster level enough, there are other fun ways. Such as locking him down directly, Daze or other effects that keep him from acting.

Even with my super-high Int and feats, he only fails a save on a Nat 1. Save or lose is not my friend here. (I've instead had to focus on summoning; economy of actions for the win.)


Or if your DM will agree to it, get Flyby Attack, while you are under the effect of a fly spell, you can cast anytime during a move. This will allow you to abuse Line of Sight against his own spells.

The arena is a single 125x125x125' cube. Cannot abuse line of sight this way.


And let you place fun traps, like Wall Of Suppression.

Is that a PF spell? If it's 3.5 only, it's out. I've never heard of it before, please tell me more.


And if you are really concerned about it, grab Leadership

Not allowed.

I really just need a way to be immune to Dispel. Random thoughts:

How to get a free counterspell (counterspell as a free action?)
summoned allies or familiars who can counterspell?
something that suppresses all dispel effects in an area
other

edit @Goodbye: What about Planar Binding? How?

edit @Amiel: Didn't know about Persistent. Persisent Mage's Disjunction could rock. How do I acquire 11th level spell slots at 20th level in PF?

Amiel
2010-12-31, 03:10 AM
Wall of Suppression is an Advanced Player's Guide spell; also found here (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/spells/wallOfSuppression.html#wall-of-suppression-).

peacenlove
2010-12-31, 03:13 AM
Cast your important spells many times beforehand.
Sure he can dispel your overland flight... however you have 5-6 such effects active on your person :smallamused:

EDIT: He (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/archon/trumpet-archon/summoned-creature-trumpet-archon) ,with a little tweaking, can prepare dispel magic and counter it. Summonable with summon monster 9.

VirOath
2010-12-31, 06:08 AM
Just because it starts as a featureless cube doesn't mean it will stay that way. You can make your own walls and terrain features, as well as time stop abuse to do it quickly.

And I do mean get creative with your spells. There are options that offer no save, you just suck. Or Save-And-Suck anyways.

But again, if your spells being targeted doesn't count as you being targeted, anything you can do to become immune to dispels won't matter. Counter it directly, and the best way to do it is with breaking the action economy by bringing friends. If Leadership is out, Summons are next on the list, you only need a summon that can cast Dispel Magic that his only purpose is to counterspell the paladin.

Heck, if you know his saves, what is his CMD looking like? Does he have flight? What is his hitpoint total?

dextercorvia
2010-12-31, 09:28 AM
I noted in the other thread that PF doesn't seem to have a method of recognizing a spell just from the effects using spellcraft. Logically, this would indicate that in order to name a spell for Dispel Magic, he would have to see it cast, or (possibly) for it to have obvious effects, like Mirror Image. How is your DM handling this? Casting buffs inside a Time Stop would thus prevent him from ID'ing your buffs.

Concealment should work... I'm not sure how much concealment you need? Since he is ruling that it doesn't target you, do your buffs spell benefit from personal concealment effects like invisibility?