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Rumpus
2010-12-31, 10:37 AM
Okay, so I'm running a campaign where the major focus is reclaiming a Heresy Era Battle Barge from a Space Hulk. This is going to be the first arc of the campaign, and will probably take at least six months of play sessions. Once the ship breaks free of the hulk, I'm planning on three different interested parties making the PCs an offer.

1) The Chapter that the ship originally belonged to want it back. It's a relic of their origins, and probably contains artifacts of their founders, possibly even their Primarch. In exchange, the Chapter offers to permanently station a squad of Space Marine scouts as part of the Rogue Trader's crew. This would obviously give the PCs a huge boost in firepower, plus it can only help negotiations to have an honor guard composed of giants.

2) An certain inquisitor believes that the Marines are heretical, and he believes that he will find evidence proving it in the ship's records. In addition to overlooking any past indiscretions (and there will be plenty, knowing my players), if the PC's give him the ship, he will anoint a PC of the player's choice as an Interrogator in the Inquisition (one step below full Inquisitor). Rogue Traders already have very few legal limitations, this would effectively put them above the law.

3) A Mechanicum Magos wants to take the ship back to his Forge World and study it for it's ancient technology. He was about to take an Explorator fleet into uncharted territory, but he offers the players to exchange his flagship (a heavily-tricked-out Light Cruiser) for their nearly totalled Battle Barge.

All three parties might decide to seize the ship if they think negotiations aren't going their way.

Of course, the players also have the option to keep the ship. It would require several decades at a major forge world to bring it back to it's former power, but field repairs could still make it incredibly powerful over time(probably a really challenging test to restore one system every play session). Oh, and they'll still be on the run from three powerful individuals.

So I'm looking for two things:

1) A really EVIL option. I'd like an option that is obviously a huge step to the Dark Side, but is good enough to actually tempt my PCs. Any suggestions as to who makes the offer, what the offer is, and why they want the ship?

2) I've been overseas for a little while. Does anybody know if any supplements have come out with rules for ships larger than Cruisers? I was planning on making it a Cruiser-equivalent with every piece of Archaeotech, plus an extra 30 Space and 30 Power. If there is are official stats for Battleships/Dreadnoughts, I'd rather use those.

Tyrrell
2010-12-31, 10:51 AM
2 The ship expansion is, I believe, the next book on the schedule. It's not out yet.

UnChosenOne
2010-12-31, 10:58 AM
1)
a. Piratical Chaos Space Marines.
Want for what&why: Ships navigation logs&central computer system, so that they can find one of their own vessels which was carrying a powerful daemonic artifact. The Ship carrying this artifact was ambushed by the Battle Barge and has been lost to them ever since.

Offer what in exchange: Access to new markets (CMS's put a good word about the rogue trader, which allows your PCs to deal with Chaos corrupted pirates and alien species), artifacts, low level Heretek.

b. Dark Mechanicus
Want for what&why: They wish to found the daemonic artifact and their navy certainly needs more vessels.

Offer in exchange: Powerful heretek (such as Anima Mori, advance AIs), enchanting the PCs ship with non-heretical tech, even possibly granting the PCs access to shipyards run by the Dark Mechanicus.

edit. Moar stuff

Selrahc
2010-12-31, 04:17 PM
2) An certain inquisitor believes that the Marines are heretical, and he believes that he will find evidence proving it in the ship's records.

Bear in mind for this option that if this is a heresy era ship, the Marines aren't going to be the Howling Nonamers from Randomrock VI. You're going to be accusing the frigging Ultramarines or Space Wolves of Heresy.

Also bear in mind, you've got a ready made first founding chapter with a heretical past in the form of the Dark Angels. And honestly.. this isn't a book published by Games Workshop, so I'm not going to warn you off doing something with it. This is your campaign. If you want to blow the dark past of the Dark Angels wide open then go for it, sounds pretty epic. But it is a pretty major event on a galactic scale, since almost every Dark Angel successor is also in on it, and if they are all denounced as traitors that could cause a civil war that makes the Badab conflict look like a backyard scuffle. And the party will almost definitely be caught up in the backwash, and probably killed as a result.

If it is the Dark Angels or one of their successors who the chapter are dealing with then the very evil option you're looking for could involve the Fallen. Have a certain hooded stranger (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Cypher) with immaculately crafted pistols show up.




2) I've been overseas for a little while. Does anybody know if any supplements have come out with rules for ships larger than Cruisers? I was planning on making it a Cruiser-equivalent with every piece of Archaeotech, plus an extra 30 Space and 30 Power. If there is are official stats for Battleships/Dreadnoughts, I'd rather use those.

If you are homebrewing a Battlebarge I'd make it a *lot* more powerful than that. Battlebarges have a good claim at being the most powerful conventional vessel in the Imperial navy. They rip apart capital ships with ease. The Battlefleet Gothic Ships of the Imperium bit, available here (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=4300022&_requestid=1103456), shows that its weapons are going to be more than twice as powerful as those mounted on a lunar, it's armour will be better, it will have a third row of void shields, 50% tougher to take down with damage(at least, it's one hell of a lot bigger.), and have a lot more guns available.

In Rogue Trader terms, here's how I'd stat it out.

Salvaged Battlebarge
Speed: 5
Manoeuvrability: +10
Detection: +10
Hull Integrity: 120
Armour: 25
Turret Rating: 3
Space: 140, including 3 barracks, which power must be found for (Primary role was to carry Space Marines, possibly an entire chapter, between worlds and nothing can entirely change that)
Weapon Capacity: Prow 2, Port 4, Starboard 4, Dorsal 1

And that is probably a pretty conservative estimate. Bear in mind though, that it should be capable of fitting extra void shields, guns that dwarf any on a Lunar cruiser, and room and munitions to outfit an entire space marine chapter.

Rumpus
2011-01-01, 07:38 AM
Ok, I never got into Battlefleet Gothic game. I may use your stats, though it'll start with much much lower structural integrity until massive repairs are conducted, and getting the more extreme systems online (like triple void-shields) is probably beyond the PCs capabilities, since even an Explorator is going to be like an orangatang trying to repair a space shuttle.

I haven't actually decided yet whether the Space Marines are heretical or not, but the Inquisitor thinks they are. To keep my players from meta-gaming, I was going to make up a chapter name that isn't clearly related to any of the original Legions (or could be related to more than one, one from each side of the Heresy). Even with a successful lore check, all the PCs will be able to learn is that this chapter has a reputation for being seriously unorthodox, and frequently clashes with other Imperial factions for unclear reasons.

Of course, if I don't come up with an Evil Option, I may decide that the marines are corrupted, which will make having a squad of them onboard very dangerous. Or the Inquisitor may be both a Radical and completely insane, so being known as his Interrogator could go badly for the PCs. Or if I'm feeling particularly mean, both may be true.

My only familiarity with the Dark Angels is from the two published Heresy novels. Obviously some of the Chapter has rebelled (arguably with good reason). Could I get the Cliff's Notes on the Dark Angels' status as of the 40k timeline?

LCP
2011-01-01, 08:21 AM
2) An certain inquisitor believes that the Marines are heretical, and he believes that he will find evidence proving it in the ship's records. In addition to overlooking any past indiscretions (and there will be plenty, knowing my players), if the PC's give him the ship, he will anoint a PC of the player's choice as an Interrogator in the Inquisition (one step below full Inquisitor). Rogue Traders already have very few legal limitations, this would effectively put them above the law.

It's your game, but this really sets alarm bells ringing for me. Rogue Traders have very few legal limitations, but no-one is above the Inquisition. If an Inquisitor orders your Rogue Trader to give him the ship, the Rogue Trader either gives it up or is excommunicated and hunted down.

That's not to say that the Inquisitor can't or shouldn't offer an incentive - there's plenty of precedent for Inquisitors who prefer to make friends by avoiding the heavy-handed approach - but appointing someone as Interrogator as a favour? Interrogators are Inquisitors-in-training, already selected by an extremely rigorous and harrowing process from humanity's best and brighest in the service of the Inquisition. Just letting some randomer in at that level seems to me like it would be asking to admit double agents or other subversives, and the Inquisition is already crazy paranoid. You don't get to join the special forces or Interpol because your friend did a favour for one of their officers, you have to be qualified. And just being a PC/having good combat or leadership skills is only the first step on the long road to being qualified to be an Interrogator.

I would suggest something else as the incentive there. Thinking of what is typical of the Inquisition:
Information. The Inquisitor could either blackmail your RT, or, if your RT has any rivals, offer some information about them that he deems to be non-sensitive.
Authority. The Inquisitor could pull strings with planetary governors or other Administratum bigwigs, if there's anything the RT needs doing along those lines.
Resources. The Inquisitor could easily help with requisitions, having basically unlimited funds and access to any kind of military unit that isn't Space Marines.

The only organisations in the Imperium that can and do occasionally defy the Inquisition are the Space Marine chapters - particularly if it's a first founding chapter as you seem to be suggesting here. You're already playing them off against each other, so I would have the Inquisitor also play on the loyalties of any of the crew: if their prize contains evidence of treachery and heresy among these Space Marines, it's imperative that the rest of the Imperium finds out. The Space Marines will probably be stomping all over the place, demanding what is rightfully theirs: let the Inquisitor work on that. "They seem awfully anxious to get it back, don't they?"


A Mechanicum Magos wants to take the ship back to his Forge World and study it for it's ancient technology. He was about to take an Explorator fleet into uncharted territory, but he offers the players to exchange his flagship (a heavily-tricked-out Light Cruiser) for their nearly totalled Battle Barge.

Along similar lines - the Mechanicus rarely pick fights with the Astartes. I think here, what you might want is for the Magos to ask the PCs to delay handing it over to the Chapter, rather than hand it over to him - delay long enough for him to study it (and maybe pilfer some archaeotech on the sly). If the Marines don't get their battle barge and it turns up in a Forge World dock, there's going to be an awful fuss.

Also, Mechanicus vessels tend to be sacred relics in themselves: I wouldn't have the Magos offer them one of his ships, I'd have him offer them the services of the Mechanicus in tricking out their own ship. Manpower is a lot less valuable to the Machine Cult than properly old machines, but the players are still likely to jump at the chance to get customising for free.


My only familiarity with the Dark Angels is from the two published Heresy novels. Obviously some of the Chapter has rebelled (arguably with good reason). Could I get the Cliff's Notes on the Dark Angels' status as of the 40k timeline?

Lexicanum link. (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_Angels)

Selrahc
2011-01-01, 08:37 AM
My only familiarity with the Dark Angels is from the two published Heresy novels. Obviously some of the Chapter has rebelled (arguably with good reason). Could I get the Cliff's Notes on the Dark Angels' status as of the 40k timeline?

During the Heresy around half the chapter were on the homeworld as garrison over the region(close to the Eye of Terror). Their leader Luther became insanely jealous of Lion El Johnson who was continuing to win battles for the emperor and rebelled, bringing the entire garrison force into corruption with him.

The loyal Dark Angels returned and in a massive battle wiped out the traitors, destroying their own homeworld and losing their Primarch in the process.

Despite this victory many of the Fallen Dark Angels managed to escape, scattering across the galaxy. Since then the Dark Angels have been utterly and fanatically dedicated to keeping their treachery a secret, and atoning for it by killing off the remaining Fallen. Only the inner circle of the chapter, those in the Deathwing of the Dark Angels and their successors, know the full truth of their mission. It means that the Dark Angels avoid the Inquisition at all costs. If they hear rumours of the Fallen being active somewhere, they will cross the galaxy to find them. If their secret were to become widely known it could well lead to massive repercussions.

Aside from their dirty little secret, and their paranoia of the Inquisition they are a fairly conservative chapter. They have two slight oddities from codex, the fact that their first company is completely outfitted with terminator armour, and their second company is based around bikes and speeders rather than a standard battle company. The Dark Angels were the very first Space Marine legion, and have ancient stores of equipment, unavailable even to most other chapters, in great numbers. The Dark Angels have a great rivalry with the Space Wolves due to their primarchs rivalry with Russ, but it is a fairly friendly rivalry rather than something more sinister. They don't have any big geneseed screwups like the Blood Angels or Space Wolves and are probably second in genetic purity only to the Ultramarines. Despite this, there are not overly many successor chapters. Possibly due to the ongoing Inquisitorial suspicions about them. When successor chapters are created they have incredibly close ties to the parent Legion, who share the same secret and mission. The Dark Angel successors work as a fairly uniform group, acting in concert if necessary. Which would make the Dark Angels being declared heretic even worse, as they'd also certainly drag their successors into the conflict.

The Fallen themselves are a mixed bag. Since their big defeat they have followed many different paths. Some of them act as mercenary renegades. Some fell into full worship of Chaos. Some ran to the furthest fringes, beyond the halo stars to carve out an empire among those who never heard of the Imperium. Some threw aside their armour, and tried to hide among Imperial society on some backworld as a gentle giant. The Closest thing they have to a leader is Cypher, whose identity is unknown and whose motives are unclear. But wherever he arrives, discord is not far behind. Rebellions and uprisings are common where he appears, sometimes in favour of the Imperium, but often against. And the normally reclusive Fallen flock to him. He may be their best hope for redemption, or for revenge. He seems to be blessed by some presence, because despite seemingly mortal blows or being captured he has always managed to disappear, to resurface elsewhere.

FelixG
2011-01-01, 09:09 AM
I can already see mutiny on the horizon for this crew depending on their choice which could lead to a fun adventure!

If they pick the inquisition or marines their techpriest engine crew may revolt. If they pick the magos the low crew could revolt. If they pick the marines both groups get pissed!

Each decision could be evil though as no ones hands are clean in 40k

Rumpus
2011-01-01, 09:23 AM
I was kind of thinking that both the Space Marines and the Inquisitor would asset their "right" to the ship during initial contact, and speak as if it's a given that the PCs will deliver the ship to them. Both are going to start off with a friendly disposition, and thank the PCs for retrieving the ship for them, and offer them a token of their gratitude for the great service done for the Imperium. Things will turn progressively less pleasant (with at least one party) as the PCs fail to hand over the ship immediately.

While the Inquisition as a whole can crush anybody, a single Inquisitor is a peer of the Imperium, same as a Rogue Trader. An Inquisitor is a very poor choice of enemies (as are a Space Marine chapter), but in the frontier beyond the Maw, it's not like it's an automatic "Game Over" to defy an Inquisitor. The Inquisitor will probably seize many of his assets and kill some of his loyal retainers, but very few Inquisitors have a personal fleet capable of wiping out a Rogue Trader House (at least, this one doesn't).