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View Full Version : What's a commoner railgun?



Chess435
2011-01-01, 01:04 AM
I've heard some passing refercences to it on these forums, but I don't really know a whole lot about it. So a few questions:

1. What is the commoner railgun?
2. How does it work?
3. Does it work in Pathfinder as well?
4. Can I use it to TPK my ECL 10 party?
5. Can I adapt it to throw other things, such as trolls, dragons, and/or Glyphstone?

Thanks for the help!

mootoall
2011-01-01, 01:14 AM
Passing things from one person to another is a free action, AKA it essentially takes no time to do. Pass a rock repeatedly from one person to another. If you're using RL physics, the rock essentially reaches relativistic speeds. It doesn't actually work because you can't let it go, because once you do, by D&D rules, it drops to the ground, another free action. Unless you're using some sort of bastardization of RL and D&D physics. Then you've killed catgirls. Bet I'm ninja'd ;)

poignant123
2011-01-01, 01:17 AM
It works technically if you ready an action to pass the object you were just passed.

The actions all happen within the same round.

Trekkin
2011-01-01, 01:17 AM
A commoner railgun works by selective application of physics: it's a long line of commoners passing an object from one to the next in the same combat round, which, with enough commoners, can cause that object to attain massive (see what I did there?)"speeds", at which point you pretend there is inertia and assume you've amassed enough kinetic energy to level a continent.

If you use it to TPK a party, books may be thrown at you.

AFAIK, it works in Pathfinder.

You can throw anything they can pass as a move action, although "selective application of physics" is firmly in the bailiwick of Eldritch Horrors, so the last commoner railgun projectile you listed is ill-advised.

EDIT: ninja'ed

2xMachina
2011-01-01, 01:25 AM
It does however, let you pass things around extremely quickly.

So long you've got a line long enough (say using constructs/undead), you can pass a letter over a million miles in just 6 seconds.

Grendus
2011-01-01, 01:29 AM
It's not really a weapon. If you want to tpk your party, try something like Tipper's Kobolds (look it up, great idea there).

poignant123
2011-01-01, 01:31 AM
It's not really a weapon. If you want to tpk your party, try something like Tucker's Kobolds (look it up, great idea there).

Fixed that for you.

Doug Lampert
2011-01-01, 02:27 AM
It's not really a weapon. If you want to tpk your party, try something like Tipper's Kobolds (look it up, great idea there).

The problem is that Tucker's kobolds only work against idiots in 3.x. You CAN make it work, but only by either engaging in GM fiat or ignoring the PCs abilities or by using at least a few higher level leader kobolds.

Any of which violates the "rules" of Tucker's kobolds that you're using ordinary kobolds to make the party miserable.

But without the high level leaders or GM fiat: Say the kobolds plot and pass plans and information on the PCs activities by whispering in each other's ear when at least 100' away and with at least one closed door between them and the party. The kobolds do need to communicate to pull of a Tucker's kobolds session, so they're doing something. Only whispers when far away with a closed door in between is accepting cripplingly bad communications in exchange for "security". And congradulations, by RAW the party Rogue probably has a better chance to make the listen check to hear that whisper than the Kobold it's being directed to! Seriously +25 or more to listen isn't that uncommon, the penalties for distance and closed doors aren't that large.

Consequently the kobolds can't manage surprise. They really can't, the rogue can hear them moving into position, he can hear them planning, he knows if they are sleeping, he knows if they're awake, he knows if they've been bad or good...

If they do manage surprise they can't wear the party down unless the party hasn't figured out that magic sticks of cure light wounds are both cheap and effective. Every kobold attack costs multiple kobolds their lives, the fighter can manage that with a bow even if he's not optimized for archery. A significant attack costs the party about 15 GP worth of cure spell.

Heck, maybe the kobolds get REALLY lucky on an intense attack and expend some expensive alchemical weapons. They might cost the party 5 or 6 charges, that's a whole 90 GP or so if the party buys their wands in the nearest small village rather than making their own.

The most serious damage the kobolds are doing is expending the potential loot when they use all those consumables!

The kobolds can't afford decent poisons or other fancy gear. The traps they can build aren't likely to kill anyone, so traps are a way for the kobolds to spend thousands of GP on materials for traps (even at 1/3rd price since they're crafting their own) in order to cost the PCs another couple of wand charges.

Realistically, the kobolds should be bribing the PCs to go away, and the PCs should be happy to go on having extorted the money. Anything else either requires massive GM fiat or that someone is a total idiot (the PCs get full XP for extortion and the kobolds aren't worth their time if they have anything else that needs doing, and from the kobolds POV still alive is the best you can hope for, and the bribes cost less than the consumables you'll have to use to die horribly failing to kill the party as Tucker's Kobolds).

DougL

AslanCross
2011-01-01, 03:44 AM
A commoner railgun works by selective application of physics: it's a long line of commoners passing an object from one to the next in the same combat round, which, with enough commoners, can cause that object to attain massive (see what I did there?)"speeds", at which point you pretend there is inertia and assume you've amassed enough kinetic energy to level a continent.



To stress the selective application: Someone using the commoner railgun assumes real-life physics work on the projectile, but not on the bodies of the commoners in use: it assumes that they are physically capable of matching these relativistic speeds (in order to catch and pass) and that it doesn't kill them in the process.

holywhippet
2011-01-01, 05:30 AM
There is a way of doing this kind of thing with a monk in 4E - sort of. One of the monk abilities lets them gain +1 to their speed for every AoO they provoke while moving. There's also an ability available to anyone who has trained endurance that lets them ignore a certain amount of damage. Now, line up a lot of minions (or anything that can't do more damage than the endurance power lets the monk ignore) and have the monk move past them provoking AoOs. With each attack, the monk gets faster by 1 - if you have them lined up on both sides you are gaining 2 speed for each one movement. Depending on the length of the minion line you can end up with a monk that can be in the next country by the time the next round starts.

grimbold
2011-01-01, 06:29 AM
1. a way to try and exploit a rules loop hole and make a totally awesome weapon.
2. Passing an object is a free action so if you have enough commoners lined up they can pass the object to reach relativistic speeds, possibly breaking the speed of light.
3. I think so
4. Probably but it would be really uncool and cruel. Its not exactly fair or RAW legal.
5. Assuming your commoners are strong enough yes but i doubt you can find enough 18 STR commoners (for the larger items) otherwise for smaller items its fine.

TheCountAlucard
2011-01-01, 06:54 AM
Actually, I don't think it's that passing is a free action; rather, all the commoners are lined up and have readied an action such that when the item is passed to him, he will pass it to the next. Then one of 'em actually passes it, thus they all do. :smalltongue: Could be wrong, though. :smallwink:

poignant123
2011-01-01, 07:06 AM
That's indeed how it works, it's not free actions but it just happens almost concurrently.

DeltaEmil
2011-01-01, 10:10 AM
There is no inertia by the rules, so there can't be any damage, if you use the "railgun" in a horizontal manner.

Anyway, it's better to use the commoners for the commoner warpway.

One commer picks up a thing with his move action, walks towards another commoner, and drops the thing (can also be a person, but then the distance between commoners needs to be shortened because of encumbrance) as a free action into an adjacent square, which should be the other commoner. The second commoner picks up the thing (or person) as a move action, and then spends his second move action to go towards another commoner, dropping the object once more as a free action, and so on.

Perfect transportation across infinity around 6 seconds. More reliable than the out-dated rat-cleave-way from the 3.0-era, which was a one-way route, although the rat-cleave-way did work for ultra-heavy creatures. Commoner warpway is limited by the strength score of the commoners. Colossal centaur commoners might alleviate the carrying capacity problems.

The Glyphstone
2011-01-01, 10:31 AM
I've heard some passing refercences to it on these forums, but I don't really know a whole lot about it. So a few questions:
5. Can I adapt it to throw other things, such as trolls, dragons, and/or Glyphstone?

Thanks for the help!

I object to this plan.

Chess435
2011-01-01, 10:35 AM
Why not? You could get in the record books for the first forum mod to reach escape velocity! :smallbiggrin:

Eldan
2011-01-01, 10:39 AM
Perfect transportation across infinity around 6 seconds. More reliable than the out-dated rat-cleave-way from the 3.0-era, which was a one-way route, although the rat-cleave-way did work for ultra-heavy creatures. Commoner warpway is limited by the strength score of the commoners. Colossal centaur commoners might alleviate the carrying capacity problems.

Actually, larger creatures can be solved as well, with a ride check.
Specifically, mounting or dismounting as a free action is a DC 20 check. With a +19 to ride, you can mount a horse, dismount on the other side (10 feet away), mount a second horse standing there, dismount on the other side of that horse...
You just need different lines for creatures of different sizes, since the mount can't be more than one category larger than you. Just align some sleeping dragons for a giant transport line.

AshDesert
2011-01-01, 10:52 AM
The commoner railgun doesn't actually work as a weapon by RAW, but it is a good method for instantaneous transportation to any point in the world as long as you have enough people. I remember seeing a thread on here a while ago that was looking for practical ways to use the rules loophole that caused the commoner railgun. If I remember correctly they ended up using lines of zombies to transport people inside portable holes. First zombie folds it up, passes it along, last zombie unfolds it, and you step out. Anywhere in the world in 6 seconds.

The Glyphstone
2011-01-01, 10:54 AM
I think it was also adapted to make a primitive internet via zombies and rocks, passing left or right to represent binary.

DeltaEmil
2011-01-01, 11:27 AM
Actually, larger creatures can be solved as well, with a ride check.
Specifically, mounting or dismounting as a free action is a DC 20 check. With a +19 to ride, you can mount a horse, dismount on the other side (10 feet away), mount a second horse standing there, dismount on the other side of that horse...
You just need different lines for creatures of different sizes, since the mount can't be more than one category larger than you. Just align some sleeping dragons for a giant transport line.If mounting and dismounting doesn't count towards your own maximal movement allowed, then it should work too, indeed.

Allez hope.

DragonOfUndeath
2011-01-01, 11:28 AM
I think it was also adapted to make a primitive internet via zombies and rocks, passing left or right to represent binary.

I remember that. They ended up making a demi-plane calculator of Zombies