Problems with the OOTS main characters [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Vaarsuvius4181

2011-01-02, 03:50 PM

Morquard

2011-01-02, 03:55 PM

Well Belkar is evil.
And all that "XY shouldn't be in the party" threads seem to be the same three guys all the time, so I wouldn't read too much into it.

Vaarsuvius4181

2011-01-02, 03:59 PM

I dont care if he is evil; he is a man source of comic relief and a great dynamic character.

Conuly

2011-01-02, 04:15 PM

I dont care if he is evil; he is a man source of comic relief and a great dynamic character.

Well, some people don't think he's funny. And they DO care that he's evil. He IS mean, that's the source of most of his humor, and a lot of people just don't like that.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion... but you should remember that just because YOU think Belkar is oh-so-hilarious doesn't mean that the posters who don't just misunderstand him or have no sense of humor or whatever.

Felixc-91

2011-01-02, 04:21 PM

Why do i keep seeing threads of people talking about why "Elan should not be in the party" or "Roy is a bad leader" or "Belkar should join Team Evil"? I just recently started re-checking this forum, and it seems like people don't like the oots cast. For instance, i think belkar is a hilarious character, but i keep seeing people say how "mean" he is, and how evil he is. Forgive me if im wrong, but i get the impression people take the cast too seriously. yeah, this comic is taken too seriusly. however, that doesn't mean taking it too seriusly can't be fun:smalltongue:! any way, the person who said that the number of people who start the hate fueled discussions is small is right, as far as i can tell. I've counted 6 so far... and yes, belkar as a living person should be executed, however as a character he's a great addition to the cast.

Xiander

2011-01-02, 04:25 PM

Well, some people don't think he's funny. And they DO care that he's evil. He IS mean, that's the source of most of his humor, and a lot of people just don't like that.

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion... but you should remember that just because YOU think Belkar is oh-so-hilarious doesn't mean that the posters who don't just misunderstand him or have no sense of humor or whatever.

Did you just tur sombody saying they like the OOts´ party composition into something insulting against a group of people who disagree? Or am I reading you wrong.

To be honest I am not a fan of belkar, but I dont hate him just because he is an evil little monster. I am actually looking forward to seeing his role in the larger scheme of the story. And I firmly believe that there is a point to having him around above and beyond him being slightly amusing at times.
He has a role to play, i want to see him play it, just like I want to see the rest of the characters play theirs. And when I have seen that, I´ll judge if it was worth having him around for the entire comic.

For the record, i believe it will be.

Burner28

2011-01-02, 05:09 PM

Wait there were people who thought Roy was a bad leader?!:smallconfused:

Conuly

2011-01-02, 06:16 PM

Did you just tur sombody saying they like the OOts´ party composition into something insulting against a group of people who disagree? Or am I reading you wrong.

I find it hard to read "some people take the cast too seriously" and "well, I don't care if he's evil, he's the main source of comic relief" to be anything other than disparaging towards people who disagree.

Gift Jeraff

2011-01-02, 06:34 PM

Wait there were people who thought Roy was a bad leader?!:smallconfused:
A part of me thinks they thought that "Lawful Good Baldness" thread said "Lawful Good Badness." :smallbiggrin: But I do remember Roy getting it bad with that infamous morally justified thread.

Roy probably gets it the best, though, followed by V (s/he still gets called out for unoptimization, but they also get defended more than s/he should so it sort of evens out).

Haley, Belkar, and Durkon, however, do have quite the haters, and Elan's been getting a lot of flak ever since Tarquin entered the picture. I think the only characters I've never seen anyone say they hate or would like to see written out are Xykon, Thog, and the MitD. Really, fanboys/fangirls are just silly and hate anything that is not what they like, and blow said "hate" out of proportion. They just happen to be the vocal minority. Also bear in mind that some of them are trolls.

Felixc-91

2011-01-02, 06:38 PM

snipped
Haley, Belkar, and Durkon, however, do have quite the haters, and Elan's been getting a lot of flak ever since Tarquin entered the picture. I think the only characters I've never seen anyone say they hate or would like to see written out are Xykon, Thog, and the MitD. Really, fanboys/fangirls are just silly and hate anything that is not what they like, and blow said "hate" out of proportion. They just happen to be the vocal minority. Also bear in mind that some of them are trolls.

durkon? since when? could you prehapse link to a thread complaining about him? i mean... who hates durkon??? and why?

Gift Jeraff

2011-01-02, 06:42 PM

durkon? since when? could you prehapse link to a thread complaining about him? i mean... who hates durkon??? and why?
Well, I guess not hate. Just some people simply don't care for Durkon and/or complain how he barely exists. (he, personally, is my second favourite OOTSer as of late). I guess he has the most apathetic opinions. :smalltongue:

Roderick_BR

2011-01-02, 06:44 PM

I dont care if he is evil; he is a man source of comic relief and a great dynamic character.
There's two issues here. First, people that think Belkar is not evil, when he we can clearly see he is. He's meaniness is just directed against their enemies.

Then, there's there whole "X should be in group Y", but those are just people that want the comic to be remade into the way THEY want to be.

In short, people whinning. Just ignore it.

durkon? since when? could you prehapse link to a thread complaining about him? i mean... who hates durkon??? and why?
I agree. Never saw anyone hating him, even if he is as much as a stereotype as everyone else. Maybe he managed to be so neutral, that people just overlook him. Roy, for example, is the typical "lawful annoying", like a paladin, only as a fighter.

Felixc-91

2011-01-02, 06:57 PM

Well, I guess not hate. Just some people simply don't care for Durkon and/or complain how he barely exists. (he, personally, is my second favourite OOTSer as of late). I guess he has the most apathetic opinions. :smalltongue: interesting, i mean it makes sense, but still. to me Durkonm isn't complaint worthy, just stereotypical. he is the stereotypical dwarven cleric, the only unique thing about him is his banishment. and that's fine, he's not irritating or even always boring, just stereotypical. as the one character that Rich choose to be that way, he contributes well to the diversity of the group...

Merellis

2011-01-02, 07:32 PM

I find those threads hilarious, in the way that people think it's gonna change anything.

We could hate a certain character forever, but it isn't our choice at all. Rich makes the comic, and as much as the fans can make the comic flourish by word of mouth, we only spread the comic to friends because we like it.

And we have no power over how Rich runs the story, over who the main characters are.

And really, would it be OOTS if we had any real say in the characters/plot? 8D

AgentofOdd

2011-01-02, 07:51 PM

I find those threads hilarious, in the way that people think it's gonna change anything.Yea... that's why most folks who complain aren't really talking to Rich, but to the rest of the fanbase. To see what they think, and possibly find others who are like minded.

And of course, while complaints won't cause any retcons, it can affect the direction of the comic. For example, if the majority of the fanbase hated Elan (hypothetically speaking), there's a reasonable chance the creator would decrease his screen time.

Dr.Epic

2011-01-02, 10:28 PM

Ninja Dragon

2011-01-02, 10:39 PM

Felixc-91

2011-01-03, 12:01 AM

snipped
For example, if the majority of the fanbase hated Elan (hypothetically speaking), there's a reasonable chance the creator would decrease his screen time.umm, not likely. The Giant has specifically said that he doesn't listen to the forums when he plans his writing...

mago

2011-01-03, 12:11 AM

Personally I hate Roy because he has like no flaws. He's the one character with no dump stats while it seems everyone else in the party has only one good stat. Not to mention he keeps getting ideal gear. He got a +5 weapon early on. He got a belt of giant strength. On top of that, he's sort of bland.

"has no flaws" and "has no defining flaws" are not the same. :P

Anyway, people complain because people are people, and that's what we do. besides, it can be fun to read, so hey, just enjoy it *and* the webcomic. it's like an arena fight, but with forumites and trolls. bring popcorn!

AgentofOdd

2011-01-03, 12:55 AM

umm, not likely. The Giant has specifically said that he doesn't listen to the forums when he plans his writing...Might be remembering things wrong, but I believe what Rich said was he didn't want to read the forums because if someone second guessed future strips, it'll make him want to change what he wrote.

Still, even if that isn't the case, I don't think it's too unreasonable to assume that if the fanbase doesn't like a character, the writer would, at the very least use him/her less for small things like one shot jokes, or minor story arcs. This does depend on how much the creator likes the character of course.

Mystic Muse

2011-01-03, 01:06 AM

Orzel

2011-01-03, 01:10 AM

Each member of the OotS has one or more character roles to play as the story main group.
It's only natural that some people will hate some of these roles and question why they exist in the story.

This is not a very serious dramtic comic so so there will always be at least one silly person in the group.
Also since the story is not about GOOD GUYS vs BAD GUYS and it's based on a game with various alignment that matter, at least one person in the main group of six people was probably going to be evil or neutral (if not multiple).
It's also unlikey that everyone would be exceptions to the rule, so many stereotypical attributes would show up in the OotS.
Someones gotta be the idiot, smart guy, etc...

I personally don't like Durkon 'cause he's basically a stereotypical example for lawful, dwarf, cleric, and people in heavy armor but he serves a purpose.

Firemeier

2011-01-03, 04:44 AM

durkon? since when? could you prehapse link to a thread complaining about him? i mean... who hates durkon??? and why?

Durkon got his share of heat, when he refused to break Roy out of jail. People immediately started complaining about his lawful stupidness. I guess because resisting authority is what your average gaming group would do in the situation.

Apart from that he seems to just go unnoticed, mostly.

Killer Angel

2011-01-03, 05:13 AM

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion... but you should remember that just because YOU think Belkar is oh-so-hilarious doesn't mean that the posters who don't just misunderstand him or have no sense of humor or whatever.

Pretty much.
Then, remember that, not only this is internet, but we are almost 35.000 forumeers. I highly doubt we can all agree on a single thing (other that "OotS is a good webcomic"). :smalltongue:

Gandariel

2011-01-03, 09:06 AM

People don't hate Durkon.. they just find him annoying and don't wanna waste time listening to him...

he is so stereotipical that he can described in: lawful good dwarven cleric of thor, likes beer, hates trees, has an accent and a beard.

(and some cleric here would say: how is it different from Any other dwarf?)

the point is, he must stay there since he's part of the oots and fills a needed role (healer)
and people is ok with him coming along and doin'his job. only, if he will get solo adventures probably people will start complaining,
and that's bad because a good solo adventure would be needed to give a little charachter growth and make Durkon more interesting...

Anyway, i donxt dislike durkon (but i admit i prefer watching the others) and i wouldn't mind seeing him a bit more, and with some charachter growth

Oh, and to who complained about roy's gear, should i remind you that Haley has a +5 icy burst bow, a +4 dagger and craploads of money?

hamishspence

2011-01-03, 09:11 AM

Durkon got his share of heat, when he refused to break Roy out of jail. People immediately started complaining about his lawful stupidness.

I think an element of that occurred the last time- with Miko when Durkon didn't fight her with the Order- and the first time the Order was jailed and Durkon didn't come with them.

Back then, he managed to avert a crisis with a little carefully worded phrasing "The five of us never left our cells" and "Twas a mechanical defect".

Which may have helped keep people's opinions of him from dropping.

Nimrod's Son

2011-01-03, 09:35 AM

Might be remembering things wrong, but I believe what Rich said was he didn't want to read the forums because if someone second guessed future strips, it'll make him want to change what he wrote.
He said something along those lines a long time ago, but has since said that he never has changed anything based on what the forums are saying (although he has written strips intended to poke fun at the wild theories or "plot holes" that people have come up with). He also said recently that he knows exactly where the story is going from here, will definitely not be changing a thing if people start guessing right, and that the "speculation spoilers" rule should probably be overturned.

Dr.Epic

2011-01-03, 02:03 PM

Also, one major mechanical flaw he has. He's a fighter.:smalltongue:

Yet he still somehow seems like he's the most powerful member in oots. It almost seems like Rich went out of his way to make the other members of the Order mostly useless so Roy - despite his class choice - would be more powerful:

-a rouge who uses a ranged weapon
-a ranger halfling that who focuses on strength and almost none of his ranger abilities
-a bard who is pretty much only a back up fighter and occasionally casts a spell

Dienekes

2011-01-03, 02:53 PM

Zanaril

2011-01-03, 02:54 PM

Some people care too much about things that don't matter, and it's not worth the effort to argue with them.

Feel free to laugh and them then move on with your life.

Dr.Epic

2011-01-03, 03:29 PM

And yet each of those characters have shown instances, or several, of being truly badass, despite their mechanical limitations. Besides Roy fails as much as any of the other characters really, well maybe not as much as Elan, but then his ongoing joke is that he is pretty useless.

Also, I have yet to see Roy pull anything on the level of V, even before the soul-splice.

Roy probably has the least amounts of failure in the whole group. Besides, most of Roy's failure came from fighting Xykon, and going toe-to-toe with the big bad before the ending usually will result in failure. And as for V, we all know how broken a wizard gets at higher level. And s/he has had several moments of just getting knocked to the ground through out the comic.

G-Man Graves

2011-01-03, 03:35 PM

Personally I hate Roy because he has like no flaws. He's the one character with no dump stats while it seems everyone else in the party has only one good stat. Not to mention he keeps getting ideal gear. He got a +5 weapon early on. He got a belt of giant strength. On top of that, he's sort of bland.

Personally I hate Optimus Prime because he has like no flaws. He's the one character that's way bigger and better at fighting while it seems the rest of the autobots are tiny with lame vehicle modes. Not to mention that he has much better weapons. He got a laser axe early on. He has the rifle that's bigger than bumblebee. On top of that, he's sort of bland.

Sarcasm aside, it isn't a bad thing to have a leader that is all around good at everything.

Dr.Epic

2011-01-03, 04:33 PM

Personally I hate Optimus Prime because he has like no flaws. He's the one character that's way bigger and better at fighting while it seems the rest of the autobots are tiny with lame vehicle modes. Not to mention that he has much better weapons. He got a laser axe early on. He has the rifle that's bigger than bumblebee. On top of that, he's sort of bland.

Sarcasm aside, it isn't a bad thing to have a leader that is all around good at everything.

That doesn't make them an interesting character and that's what I'm talking about with Roy. Everything comes easy to the guy. He struggles with little and that lacks real drama. Not to mention it's kid of odd the 20 something year old human who spent most of his life learning to fight is just as intelligent as the 100 plus year old elf who spent their whole life studying.

And just as a side note, the leader doesn't have to be good at everything. They only have to be good at leading. And I'm not even sure in the group Roy is the best person for this role.

yldenfrei

2011-01-03, 05:17 PM

That doesn't make them an interesting character and that's what I'm talking about with Roy. Everything comes easy to the guy. He struggles with little and that lacks real drama. Not to mention it's kid of odd the 20 something year old human who spent most of his life learning to fight is just as intelligent as the 100 plus year old elf who spent their whole life studying.

And just as a side note, the leader doesn't have to be good at everything. They only have to be good at leading. And I'm not even sure in the group Roy is the best person for this role.

Agree. Plus, his snark factor somewhat makes him immune to ridicule by others (he does it himself). I liked it when Roy was genuinely exasperated by his party member's taunts (Roy has BOOBIES!), but due to character development he now turns to quiet resignation. Takes the fun out of teasing someone, when he doesn't want to play, right?

G-Man Graves

2011-01-03, 05:52 PM

Well perhaps if Roy got more than, like, three comics out of the last thirty we could see him interacting with the party more. The comic seems to be focusing more on the character's of certain other members, for better or for worse.

Dr.Epic

2011-01-03, 06:51 PM

rewinn

2011-01-03, 06:55 PM

He got plenty of screen time long before the Empire of Blood story arc and he was still bland.
Roy's job is to be a little bit bland; he's the stereotypical Reasonable Man that his zany sidekicks can play off of; he's the straight man that lets the others play comedian.

That said, he's died more than anyone else in the party which has got to count for something in the department of interesting screw-ups.

Dr.Epic

2011-01-03, 08:12 PM

Roy's job is to be a little bit bland; he's the stereotypical Reasonable Man that his zany sidekicks can play off of; he's the straight man that lets the others play comedian.

You're saying the protagonist's job is to be bland?:smallconfused:

An Enemy Spy

2011-01-03, 08:34 PM

You're saying the protagonist's job is to be bland?:smallconfused:

I wasn't aware that "not an idiot" equals bland now.
List of Roy's failures (off the top of my head): Foolishly attacking a high powered lich who he had no chance of defeating (and dying in the process due to aforementioned foolishness), leaving a teammate to die, not considering the possiblilty that Xykon would go after Soon's Gate despite the Oracle trying to drop hints, getting his anscestral blade destroyed, and perhaps most damning of all, hiring a little psychopath like Belkar.
You're right, this guy is flawless.

Nevereatcars

2011-01-03, 08:40 PM

He didn't know the extent of Belkar's psychopathy when he hired him. All he knew was that Belkar was a ranger, and that he thought Roy wanted him to kill people.

Orzel

2011-01-03, 09:23 PM

Part of Roy's (and Durkon's.. and Redcloak's) job is to be the straight man to everyone else. Most of the other people in the comic are too zany, crazy, disruptive, and/stereotypical to move the plot. Roy also serves as the explainer/reminder to many D&D terms so non-D&D players could get some of these terms.

Who else is gonna yell at Belkar for not being a tracker? The rest either don't care, won't ask, don't know, or forget that tracking exists.
Everyone has a role to play.

Need to make a joke about immoral violence... Belkar scence
Need to explain a stupid game rule- Use Elan if the rule is truly stupid, V or Haley if it cheesy or abusable, Durkon or Roy if it is annoying hinderance...

G-Man Graves

2011-01-03, 10:42 PM

You're saying the protagonist's job is to be bland?:smallconfused:

Considering that Elan seems to have become the main character, I would say yes.

Swordpriest

2011-01-04, 01:12 AM

Just about any other group of characters would quickly reveal ghastly foibles, too. Replace the OotS with Tarquin's and Malack's party, for example, and you'd find out their failings PDQ also, I bet ....

Felixc-91

2011-01-04, 01:41 AM

so, at this point, we're complaining because Rich created a realistic spread/variety in his characters? why?

Thorcrest

2011-01-14, 04:09 PM

Pretty much.
Then, remember that, not only this is internet, but we are almost 35.000 forumeers. I highly doubt we can all agree on a single thing (other that "OotS is a good webcomic"). :smalltongue:

I actually seem to remember that there have been a few threads along the lines of: "I now Hate this Comic and will no Longer Read this!" So we can't even agree on that... then again I could always just argue that nothing exists since I can only prove the existence of myself through good old sceptical arguments and that I am siply fooling myself into believing that this forum exists by posting in it :smalltongue:

so, at this point, we're complaining because Rich created a realistic spread/variety in his characters? why?

People will always argue about everything... even if it has no bearing on any situation whatsoever.

I personally have no problem with the characters, some are more flawed than others, some get more screen time, and some get more comedic lines, such is just par for the course when writing a story and is perfectly acceptable.

Swordpriest

2011-01-14, 04:13 PM

Well, I've noticed an interesting cause and effect relationship between something on this site, and the amount of threads like this on the forum. :smallwink:

Roland St. Jude

2011-01-14, 04:15 PM

...And of course, while complaints won't cause any retcons, it can affect the direction of the comic. For example, if the majority of the fanbase hated Elan (hypothetically speaking), there's a reasonable chance the creator would decrease his screen time.That's seems both unlikely and unfounded.

umm, not likely. The Giant has specifically said that he doesn't listen to the forums when he plans his writing...Indeed.

Sheriff of Moddingham: There really isn't a need for a meta-thread on this phenomenon. It just rehashes all the individual squabbles over some aspect of the main characters. Thread locked.