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Elric VIII
2011-01-02, 08:53 PM
I have not given a large amout of thought to this character, but I would like to see if I can (with help from GitP, as always) set up a rough outline.

My plan is to go Warblade 6 then enter Warrior Skald to gain all bardic music, taking Song of the White Raven to make the Warblade levels stack for Bardic Music.

I have a few concerns regarding various wordings and interpretations.


Song of the White Raven reads:

"While you are in any White Raven stance, you can activate your bardic music ability to inspire courage as a swift action. Your crusader and warblade levels stack with your bard levels to determine the bonus granted by your inspire courage ability."
Now, the way this is worded raises a few issues:
-Do the levels actually stack this way or does it have to be actual Bard levels?

-Do my Warblade levels stack when I'm not in a White Raven stance, or do I just not get swift action activation?

-Do I gain additional uses/day of bardic music due to Warblade levels? If not, is there a way to gain additional uses?



I also need a way to give the Warblade perform as a class skill, preferably some way other than multiclassing/taking the apprenticeship feat. I'm not opposed to taking a feat, I just don't want to deal with Apprenticeship stuff.

Urpriest
2011-01-02, 08:59 PM
I may be misremembering, but I think Warrior Skald uses the 3.0 rules for Bardic Music, which are different from the 3.5 rules. It would have to be changed for a 3.5 game, and it probably wouldn't grant all bardic music.

Xiander
2011-01-02, 09:09 PM
Song of the White Raven reads:

"While you are in any White Raven stance, you can activate your bardic music ability to inspire courage as a swift action. Your crusader and warblade levels stack with your bard levels to determine the bonus granted by your inspire courage ability."


As i read it the feat has two effects.
1) when in the stance you can activate the music as a swift action.
2) At all times your levels in crusader and warblade stacks with your levels in bard. This means bard and only bard. As it is written at least.

poignant123
2011-01-02, 09:13 PM
If warrior skald says you're treated as a bard of X level, then it works I think.

Elric VIII
2011-01-02, 09:39 PM
Warrior Skald says "At first level, the Warrior Skald gains the bardic music ability if she did not have it from a previous class. All the bardic music effects become available to her immediately, subject to their usuall perform check requirements. Additionally, all the bardic music effects, including countersong, can be produced with poetry rather than music. Each Bardic Music effect eccept suggestion requires one daily use of the bardic musig ability. Suggestion does not require any uses but the target must first be fascinated. The Warrior Skald combines her Bard and Warrior Skald levels to determine how many times per day she can use her bardic music ability."

This appears to mean that Warblade 6/Warrior Skald 1 only gets one use, but I'm wondering about how multiple classes that stack with one class stack with each other.

Here's another question, the Heartfire Fanner PrC, from Dragon 314, "...gains the bardic music ability as a 5th level Bard if he did not already have it from a previous class. All bardic music effects become available to him immediately, subject to their usual performance skill and level requirements. A Heartfire Fanner's class levels stack with any Bard levels for bardic music calculations, including the number of uses of bardic music available per day. A heartfire Fanner with Bard levels does not gain the normal bardic music abilities as he advances in Heartfire Fanner levels."

The earliest one may enter into this class is level 8 with the ability to cast 1st level spells, so a Sorcerer 1/Warblade 6/Heartfire Fanner 1 counts as a Bard of level 5. Would adding Song of the White Raven increase your effective Bard level for Inspire courage to be equal to that of a Bard 11 at ECL 8?

Human Paragon 3
2011-01-02, 10:01 PM
It would be a very reasonable houserule to allow it to stack with your skald levels.

ShneekeyTheLost
2011-01-02, 11:13 PM
The only problem is that while Song of the White Raven allows levels to stack for purposes of IC, it does not grant additional uses per day. So unless this Warrior Skald PrC gives you uses per day, you have an awesome IC bonus that you'll never be able to apply since you never have any available uses per day.

Elric VIII
2011-01-02, 11:28 PM
The only problem is that while Song of the White Raven allows levels to stack for purposes of IC, it does not grant additional uses per day. So unless this Warrior Skald PrC gives you uses per day, you have an awesome IC bonus that you'll never be able to apply since you never have any available uses per day.

I think you're right about the Warrior Skald idea, but how about the Hearfire Fanner? It grants 5 uses per day if you don't have any normally, but would it allow my inspire courage level calculation be higher than my actual level?

hamishspence
2011-01-03, 07:14 AM
So unless this Warrior Skald PrC gives you uses per day, you have an awesome IC bonus that you'll never be able to apply since you never have any available uses per day.

It says "The warrior skald combines her bard and warrior skald levels to determine how many times per day she can use her bardic music ability" in Races of Faerun.

(which was very late 3.0- more like "3.25" so to speak)

So- it probably "counts as" a bard of the same level- and bardic levels stack with warrior skald levels.

Elric VIII
2011-01-03, 03:14 PM
So, it appears the Heartfire Fanner grants bardic music attempts. I would really like to maximize my casting while being able to project two bardic musics, so I think I'm going to try this:
Sorcerer 3/Warblade 4/Heartfire Fanner 3(advancing Sorcerer)/Seeker of the Song 2/Sublime Chord 1/Heartfire Fanner +2(advancing Sublime Chord)/Sublime Chord +5.

This would grant me 3rd level Sorcerer spells, then 4th-8th level spells via Sublime Chord along with 2 simultaneous musics.

I am going to be a Dragonwrought Kobold so that I can use dragonfire inspiration. I heard that there's a way to get free sorcerer levels with loredrake, but I'm not exactly sure how this works. Does a dragonwrought kobold count as a true dragon?

I'm also having trouble with the fact that both Sublime Chord and Seeker of the Song cannot be taken before level 10, AFAIK there's nothing I can actually do about that, but I figured I would ask anyway. Is there a way to increase max skill ranks? Or, Is there a class besides War Chanter that allows multiple bardic musics?

woodenbandman
2011-01-03, 03:30 PM
Or you could just take levels in bard. Honestly, why complicate this so much?

Elric VIII
2011-01-03, 03:34 PM
Or you could just take levels in bard. Honestly, why complicate this so much?

What, and be boring and predictable?

Tokuhara
2011-01-03, 03:51 PM
I've done a "bard with no bard levels" as a Wizard/Virtuoso/Seeker of the Song. THAT was a blast and a half, since the character acted like a bard, with wizard's varitable pantheon of batman-ery

Elric VIII
2011-01-03, 03:56 PM
I've done a "bard with no bard levels" as a Wizard/Virtuoso/Seeker of the Song. THAT was a blast and a half, since the character acted like a bard, with wizard's varitable pantheon of batman-ery

Does that build get inspire courage? I'm really looking to make this character gish-esque, using Snowflake Wardance/Inspire Courage/Dragonfire Inspiration along with decent casting.

Otherwise, that looks like a good build with only minimal casting loss.

Tokuhara
2011-01-03, 03:59 PM
Does that build get inspire courage? I'm really looking to make this character gish-esque, using Snowflake Wardance/Inspire Courage/Dragonfire Inspiration along with decent casting.

Otherwise, that looks like a good build with only minimal casting loss.

It reads that you get any bard casting you don't already have. It says you "gain bardic music"

Elric VIII
2011-01-03, 04:04 PM
Well, I must have missed that bit, if I can't get this to work, Virtuoso would be great.

EDIT: Virtuoso would be great with a sorcerer base anyway, since it advances casting.

Tokuhara
2011-01-03, 04:36 PM
Well, I must have missed that bit, if I can't get this to work, Virtuoso would be great.

EDIT: Virtuoso would be great with a sorcerer base anyway, since it advances casting.

I prefer wizard personally, for the abundance of spells known

Person_Man
2011-01-03, 04:56 PM
This doesn't help with your specific build, but something similar can be made with the From Smite to Song feat (Champions of Valor). It allows you to burn Smite Evil uses to Inspire Courage, adds Perform to your class list, and your Paladin levels count as Bard levels. It's noteworthy in that you can gain extra Smite Evil uses from a +1 magical weapon enhancement (or a variety of other methods). This opens up a variety of different Dragonfire Inspiration builds, including Warblade/Paladin or Crusader/Paladin.

Elric VIII
2011-01-03, 05:38 PM
I saw From Smite to Song, I was considering using it along with Initiate of Milil with a Cleric/Crusader/PrC Paladin build but I decided that I wanted to pursue the arcane route.

As for Sorcerer, I figured that if I'm using Snowflake Wardance I would want to reduce MAD. Although I do usually like vancian casting since, with a little forethought you end up having more versatility then spontaneous anyway.

dextercorvia
2011-01-05, 05:53 PM
It reads that you get any bard casting you don't already have. It says you "gain bardic music"


Well, I must have missed that bit, if I can't get this to work, Virtuoso would be great.

EDIT: Virtuoso would be great with a sorcerer base anyway, since it advances casting.

I believe you are looking at the 3.0 Virtuoso. The one in CAdv has no such line, and loses a caster level.