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Moginheden
2011-01-02, 09:19 PM
I just joined a 4th ed essentials campaign as a knight.

I took plate armor and a shield then noticed that my AC was only barley above the rest of the party, (they are all within 3 AC.) This seems to stem from the fact that I get no dexterity bonus at all and they can use int or dex to boost theirs, whatever suits their class.

This was exacerbated by the fact that the first piece of loot we got was a +1 blooddrinker greataxe that seemed best suited for me. So now I've lost my shield bonus and have an AC tied with one of our party and only 1 above the other two members.

Is there a feat I can take that will let me use my dexterity, (or better yet con or str) modifier while wearing plate? Or a feat that will grant me DR? Or a feat that will give me AC from any other source?

Is there a way for me to use my shield and the greataxe at the same time? The blooddrinker quality has saved my life a few times now.

Telasi
2011-01-02, 09:22 PM
There is no way to apply any modifier to your AC in heavy armor, no feat granting untyped DR (there are some resist Fire and Cold ones), no feat giving extra AC wearing plate, and no way to use a two-handed weapon and shield simultaneously, at least at heroic.

What are the ACs of the party?

Moginheden
2011-01-02, 09:30 PM
I'm currently 20, our cleric is 20, our rogue-type, (forgot what class exactly) is 19 and our wizard is 19.

All at level 4.

Moginheden
2011-01-02, 09:36 PM
It just seems retarded that I would have been better off wearing light armor with a high dex than plate armor. In 3.5 you needed insane dex numbers before this was true, in essentials it seems like plate is penalized way too heavily.

Zaq
2011-01-02, 09:49 PM
If you care about AC and you're a Knight, don't ditch your shield. Also, to compensate for not getting a stat bonus (which inherently scales) to AC, the masterwork versions of heavy armor (at least scale and plate . . . I forget if chain is included) are available at lower levels than the masterwork versions of other armors, and they give faster-scaling AC bonuses (or other nifty things like DR, if that's your game).

Telasi
2011-01-02, 09:51 PM
It just seems retarded that I would have been better off wearing light armor with a high dex than plate armor. In 3.5 you needed insane dex numbers before this was true, in essentials it seems like plate is penalized way too heavily.

Plate is actually better in the long run, since you get DR as an option, and you need a fairly good Dex to beat/equal plate. Scale is the best heavy armor, imo, since it has the lightest penalties, but plate is the best pure AC.

If you only have the one magic item, you're not getting what you should. The DM needs to give you more.

Mando Knight
2011-01-02, 09:56 PM
It just seems retarded that I would have been better off wearing light armor with a high dex than plate armor. In 3.5 you needed insane dex numbers before this was true, in essentials it seems like plate is penalized way too heavily.

Wrong. Only a scant few classes can match a Plate-and-Heavy-Shield Defender's AC. To match Plate armor (alone!) without an AC-boosting feature or a shield, you need to start with 20 Dex or Int, wear Hide, and boost Dex/Int at every opportunity. Add in a Heavy Shield, and only classes that specialize in light armor can match your AC.

Moginheden
2011-01-02, 10:24 PM
If you care about AC and you're a Knight, don't ditch your shield. Also, to compensate for not getting a stat bonus (which inherently scales) to AC, the masterwork versions of heavy armor (at least scale and plate . . . I forget if chain is included) are available at lower levels than the masterwork versions of other armors, and they give faster-scaling AC bonuses (or other nifty things like DR, if that's your game).

The problem is that 5 HP I get from the bloodrinker seems worth more than 2 AC.

I keep trying to loot the corpses of what we kill and being told by the DM that the human fighters who almost killed us have nothing of value whatsoever on them, not even 1 cp. :smallfurious:

MeeposFire
2011-01-02, 10:28 PM
Remember also as a defender you generally want the others to have ACs within 2-3 of you anyway as that makes the enemy's choice harder since your aura brings it closer to you thus making it more likely they attack you rather than face your wrath and an AC essentially equal to yours.

This is unlike previous versions where your ac is so high they want to ignore you. You want enemies to attack you slightly more than your friends (but you still need to not take every attack).

Moginheden
2011-01-02, 10:34 PM
Remember also as a defender you generally want the others to have ACs within 2-3 of you anyway as that makes the enemy's choice harder since your aura brings it closer to you thus making it more likely they attack you rather than face your wrath and an AC essentially equal to yours.

This is unlike previous versions where your ac is so high they want to ignore you. You want enemies to attack you slightly more than your friends (but you still need to not take every attack).

Well the way our DM interprets my defender aura EVERYTHING attacks me if I'm near it. Animals with 1 int? yep that'll only attack me. Human fighters? yep they'll only attack me. Mindless undead? still most likely to attack me, although they generally don't switch targets till I hit them. The ONLY way I get to attack someone from my defender aura is if an ally provokes an attack of opportunity. So it doesn't matter if my AC is 1 or 50 billion I'm going to be getting hit.

Mando Knight
2011-01-02, 10:40 PM
The problem is that 5 HP I get from the bloodrinker seems worth more than 2 AC.

You're reading the weapon wrong. It deals 5 damage to you every time you miss all your targets, in return for dealing 2d6 extra damage on the first target you hit next turn. Good for a Striker who has good Leader and Defender buddies, bad for everyone else.

WitchSlayer
2011-01-02, 10:46 PM
Your DM needs to start looking at the creatures tactics.

Moginheden
2011-01-02, 10:50 PM
You're reading the weapon wrong. It deals 5 damage to you every time you miss all your targets, in return for dealing 2d6 extra damage on the first target you hit next turn. Good for a Striker who has good Leader and Defender buddies, bad for everyone else.

It's not a vicious. The card that came with the red box shows it as a +1 magical greataxe that grants 5 temporary HP every time I get a killing blow. With minions all over our encounters getting a killing blow isn't hard.

KingFlameHawk
2011-01-02, 11:09 PM
If you are playing a defender (especially a Knight) I would ditch the greataxe and go sword and board. I know the +5 the hp is appealing but that 2 the AC (and reflex don't forget) is better in the long run as it makes you 10% less likely to be hit. If you still want more hp go for the toughness feat (+5 hp per tier) if you don't already have it. And don't forget that for every point you put into Con you get 1 hp so make sure that is high. Also ask your DM if he is willing to give you some magic plate. The enhancement bonus will really help. Also don't worry about the similiar AC between you and the others. At low levels that happens but as the levels increase the gap should too.

Mando Knight
2011-01-02, 11:11 PM
It's not a vicious. The card that came with the red box shows it as a +1 magical greataxe that grants 5 temporary HP every time I get a killing blow. With minions all over our encounters getting a killing blow isn't hard.
That's the Life Drinker. Blood Drinker is entirely different. Vicious is another entirely, and is simply a magic weapon with increased critical damage.

Meta
2011-01-03, 12:26 AM
Agile Armor would let you add a bit if dex/int whilst wearing plate mail

KillianHawkeye
2011-01-03, 12:42 AM
You seem to be missing the point that the game designers intentionally chose to have everybody's defense scores be within a few points of each others (assuming similar levels of equipment). Light and Heavy armor users are supposed to have similar ACs so that encounters become easier to construct. DMs no longer have to worry about using monsters who have extreme difficulty hitting certain party members while easily smacking around others. There are no longer situations where there's a ten point difference in PCs' Armor Class like you could have in 3.5, and this is by design.

MeeposFire
2011-01-03, 12:50 AM
Well the way our DM interprets my defender aura EVERYTHING attacks me if I'm near it. Animals with 1 int? yep that'll only attack me. Human fighters? yep they'll only attack me. Mindless undead? still most likely to attack me, although they generally don't switch targets till I hit them. The ONLY way I get to attack someone from my defender aura is if an ally provokes an attack of opportunity. So it doesn't matter if my AC is 1 or 50 billion I'm going to be getting hit.

Well this makes your job simpler. If you are a half elf you could pick up eldritch strike and use a few feats so that every time they attack you you deal damage to them.

If you can not build stuff like that in for sure pick up that shield again. Get plate specialization in paragon and get feats or equipment that give you damage resistance. Build yourself expecting they attack you and you can do well.

gourdcaptain
2011-01-03, 12:53 AM
Only noteable defensive upgrades I can think of are defensive weapons (probably not a good idea here) and Armor Specialization feats at paragon for an additional +1 AC. I would recommend sword/hammer and board though - trading a point or two of damage for an additional +2 to AC can really throw you ahead of everyone else defensively.

But yeah, masterwork plate is AWESOME, especially the DR kind.

kieza
2011-01-03, 12:59 AM
I'm not very familiar with essentials, but something that I'd like to point out as a DM: when playing a Defender, you want to walk the thin line between being more survivable than the rest of the group, and being nigh-impossible to kill. As a Defender, your goal is to make yourself a more attractive target than the rest of the party. You already have more hitpoints, and likely more ways to regain them, and the higher you boost your defenses, the less effect your mark will have.

MeeposFire
2011-01-03, 01:08 AM
That is not the problem as the DM in this game is not using any sort of normal tactics. By the OP the DM is attacking the knight 100% of the time the aura (which is the essentials mark) affects a target. So at this point main the OP unkillable is a priority. That and making a nasty catch 22 if possible, which is why I suggest eldritch strike and the white lotus riposte/master riposte.

Gralamin
2011-01-03, 01:48 AM
I'm currently 20, our cleric is 20, our rogue-type, (forgot what class exactly) is 19 and our wizard is 19.

All at level 4.

Let's assume you are level 4 with an Essentials Cleric, Essentials Thief, Essentials Wizard, and Knight.

I'm going to assume pre-item, your build looks like this (Specifics don't really matter, I'm doing this for the general numbers. This isn't optimized, but is a solid build):

19 Str / Con
12 Dex
11 Int
11 Wis
8 Cha

52 HP
AC
10 + 2 (level) + 8 (Plate) + 2 (Heavy Shield) + 1 (Enhancement) = 23

Fort
10 + 2 (level) + 2 (Class) + 4 (Attribute) + 2 (Heavy Shield) + 1 (Enhancement) = 21

Reflex
10 + 2 (level) + 1 (Attribute) + 2 (Heavy Shield) + 1 (Enhancement) = 16

Will
10 + 2 (level) + 0 (Attribute) + 2 (Heavy Shield) + 1 (Enhancement) = 15

Total of Defenses: 75

Feats
Encourager Shield
Stout shield
Anything else.

At higher levels, this character will generally have a much higher AC - Masterwork armor really buffs it up, as well as a bit of specialization in armor.

Now for the next few builds, I'm going to Optimize for AC. These will be best cases and the characters with them will generally have major issues.

An optimized for AC thief build can hit 23, 24 against ranged attacks. However, this sort of build is very rare.

Str 16
Con 13
Dex 21
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 10

AC
10 + 2 (level) + 1 (Enhancement) + 5 (Dex) + 3 (Armor) + 1 (Shield bonus - TWF) + 1 (Rhythm Blade) = 23

Fort
10 + 2 (Level) + 1 (Enhancement) + 3 (Str) = 16

Ref
10 + 2 (Level) + 1 (Enhancement) + 5 (Dex) + 1 (Shield bonus - TWF) + 1 (Rhythm Blade) +2 (Class) = 22

Will
10 + 2 (Level) + 1 (Enhancement) = 13

Total of Defenses 74

Feats
Two-Weapon Fighting
Two-Weapon Defense
Armor Proficiency: Hide

Relevant Items
Shortsword Rhythm Blade +1 (In Off hand)
Cloak of Distortion +1 (+1 to defenses against ranged attacks)


Cleric (Warpriest), can get +2 power from a daily power if it chooses the right one, for an encounter. Throw in Shield of Strength, and can do it twice per day. Heal self with Healing word, and using Shielding word feat, for an additional untyped +2 bonus. Darkleaf Shield means a +1 bonus to AC during the surprise round and nonsurprise round. Melorating Armor increases enhancement bonus each milestone. So, in the best case, AC peaks at +10 of what I calculate, at HEAVY investment of resources, and after 10 encounters. Chances are it will never get higher then that.

Str 13
Con 18
Dex 11
Int 11
Wis 19
Cha 8

AC
10 + 2 (Level) + 1 (Enhancement) + 2 (Shield) + 7 (Scale) = 22

Fort
10 + 2 (Level) + 4 (Attribute) +1 (Improved Defenses) + 1 (Enhancement) + 1 (Class) = 19

Ref
10 + 2 (Level) + 1 (Improved Defenses) + 1 (Enhancement) + 2 (Shield) = 16

Will
10 + 2 (Level) + 4 (Attribute) +1 (Improved Defenses) + 1 (Enhancement) + 1 (Class) = 19

Total of Defenses: 76

Feats
Armor Proficiency: Scale
Improved Defenses
Shielding Word

Relevant Items
Scepter of Bane (eliminates need of Holy symbol, allowing us to get a magic shield)
Darkleaf Shield
Meliorating Armor



*Note: You can get higher AC playing a plain 4e Wizard, I'm assuming all essentials classes though.
Wizard (Mage): Play an Illusionist, so we can have some limited effective AC increases when we hit things. Shield can give a +4 power bonus to AC and reflex. Bloodthread cloth gives us +2 to AC when bloodied. Thus, this peaks at an effective 30, if Shield is up, He's bloodied, and he hit the enemy last turn with illusions.

Str 10
Con 15
Dex 10
Int 21
Wis 11
Cha 8

AC
10 + 2 (Level) + 1 (Enhancement) + 2 (Shield) + 5 (Attribute) + 2 (Unarmored Agility) = 22

Fort
10 + 2 (Level) + 2 (Attribute) +1 (Improved Defenses) + 1 (Enhancement) + 1 (Human) = 17

Ref
10 + 2 (Level) + 5 (Attribute) + 1 (Improved Defenses) + 1 (Enhancement) + 1 (shield - Shielding blade doesn't add it to AC as well) + 1 (Human) = 21

Will
10 + 2 (Level) + 0 (Attribute) +1 (Improved Defenses) + 1 (Enhancement) + 2 (Class) + 1 (Human) = 17

Total of Defenses: 77

Feats
Unarmored Agility (Let's use keep using Cloth, which is sweet)
(Human) Improved Defenses
Weapon Prof (Short sword)
Arcane Implement Proficiency (Light blade) (Now we can use Light blades as Implements. This lets us use Rhythm Blade)

Relevant Items
Bloodthread Cloth Armor +1
Rhythm Blade +1 (Off hand)
Shielding Blade +1 (Gives us something for Rhythm Blade to enhance, for sure)


The main point of this is that: Look how much sheer Investment other classes have to make to get near or beat your defenses, assuming you aren't even using an optimized build for it, and they ARE.

Kurald Galain
2011-01-03, 03:38 AM
Is there a feat I can take that will let me use my dexterity, (or better yet con or str) modifier while wearing plate? Or a feat that will grant me DR? Or a feat that will give me AC from any other source?
Sure. Multiclass to wizard and take the Shield spell. Several other classes have related spells that temporarily boost your AC. And there's plenty of items that give you AC bonuses, such as boots of the fencing master. Of course, this will take you a few levels.

The simple solution is to use the Transfer Enchantment ritual to move the lifedrinker enchantment to a one-handed weapon. Problem solved.

Alternatively, you could consider leaving minion killing to the controller in the party; if you do, there's probably better weapons for you.

Moginheden
2011-01-04, 03:47 PM
AC
10 + 2 (level) + 8 (Plate) + 2 (Heavy Shield) + 1 (Enhancement) = 23

Fort
10 + 2 (level) + 2 (Class) + 4 (Attribute) + 2 (Heavy Shield) + 1 (Enhancement) = 21

Reflex
10 + 2 (level) + 1 (Attribute) + 2 (Heavy Shield) + 1 (Enhancement) = 16

Will
10 + 2 (level) + 0 (Attribute) + 2 (Heavy Shield) + 1 (Enhancement) = 15

Where are you getting that "enhancement" from?



Feats
Encourager Shield
Stout shield
Anything else.

This is what I'm looking for, a list of feats to improve defenses.

Moginheden
2011-01-04, 03:50 PM
Only noteable defensive upgrades I can think of are defensive weapons (probably not a good idea here) and Armor Specialization feats at paragon for an additional +1 AC. I would recommend sword/hammer and board though - trading a point or two of damage for an additional +2 to AC can really throw you ahead of everyone else defensively.

But yeah, masterwork plate is AWESOME, especially the DR kind.

why sword/hammer not a handaxe?

Moginheden
2011-01-04, 03:51 PM
The simple solution is to use the Transfer Enchantment ritual to move the lifedrinker enchantment to a one-handed weapon. Problem solved.

Is this in essentials? where is it described?

Grogmir
2011-01-04, 03:51 PM
I think he's getting it from the standard level of magic equipment at that level.

I would give up the Axe to keep the shield - +2 to AC and REF is better imo.

If you're finding that 5hp makes the difference then Toughness gives that (in a different way of course).

I'm not up on the rules enough to give you a list of feats though sorry,.

Kylarra
2011-01-04, 03:55 PM
Transfer enchantment is in one of the Adventurer's Vaults iirc. It's something like 25gp of reagents to transfer an enchantment from one item to a like item (weapon => weapon, armor => armor, etc).

Moginheden
2011-01-04, 04:00 PM
If you're finding that 5hp makes the difference then Toughness gives that (in a different way of course).

Not really. I'm getting a killing blow most turns and getting hit for more than 5 HP most turns so the axe is giving me an effect approximating DR 5.

Gralamin
2011-01-04, 04:55 PM
Where are you getting that "enhancement" from?



This is what I'm looking for, a list of feats to improve defenses.

Assuming a +1 Armor and a +1 neck item.

The feats I listed throughout the builds are various ways to improve your defenses with investments of up to three feats. Not all are appropriate for your build, but some are definitely good.

Jaidu
2011-01-04, 05:00 PM
A feat that I haven't seen mentioned is Swift Recovery. This grants a bonus to your healing surge value, so every heal you get, including second wind, packs some extra punch. I've used this on my level 5 Dragonborn Cavalier, along with 14 Con and Spirit of Valor, to boost my surge value by 7.

Others have mentioned Agile Armor. Meliorating Armor increases its enhancement bonus by one for each milestone you've reached. Bloodiron Armor increases AC against a target you hit. Reinforcing armor boosts all defenses when you're hit by a melee attack.

Just some ideas.

Lunix Vandal
2011-01-04, 05:31 PM
Assuming a +1 Armor and a +1 neck item.Which, one might add, is a valid assumption in core 4e -- the RAW 4th-level starting package includes three magic items (3rd, 4th, and 5th-level, usually taken as +1 weapon+armor+neck) and 680 gold. Per person. Without that, the prospect of prolonged combat is quantifiably worse for the party -- and it will keep getting worse as long as your DM skimps on loot, especially since (according to the DMG) a 4-player, 4th-level party should have their mitts on at least two +2 items before hitting Level 5, and another three +2 items before Level 6.

Mando Knight
2011-01-04, 06:50 PM
Not really. I'm getting a killing blow most turns and getting hit for more than 5 HP most turns so the axe is giving me an effect approximating DR 5.

Fact: A Defender should never focus on minions. Ever. If you're being swarmed by minions, have the Wizard drop a weak area attack on your head, popping every minion around you while dealing only a relatively small amount of damage to you. Wizard doesn't have an at-will area or multi-target attack? Get a new Wizard. Multi-target offense is his job.

Shatteredtower
2011-01-04, 07:19 PM
The knight has one useful trick for fighting minions, though it's one of the few things the cavalier does better.

Have your teammates provoke opportunity attacks against minions (no more than one per turn, however) in your aura. If the enemies don't take the bait...nothing is lost, and your teammates have a much easier time getting into position--especially true of halflings strikers with Defensive Mobility.

If you are going to use this trick as a knight, you want the longsword and, when you can get it, Heavy Blade Expertise. It is very important that you hit as often as possible. The cavalier has a bit more freedom in weapon choice here, as any minion that tries for the opportunity attack in your presence dies on the spot.

In any case, take the shield. Seriously, take the shield. You need the boost to your Reflex defense anyway.

Kurald Galain
2011-01-05, 04:27 AM
Fact: A Defender should never focus on minions. Ever. If you're being swarmed by minions, have the Wizard drop a weak area attack on your head, popping every minion around you while dealing only a relatively small amount of damage to you. Wizard doesn't have an at-will area or multi-target attack? Get a new Wizard. Multi-target offense is his job.

I endorse this advice.

Moginheden
2011-01-05, 04:44 PM
Fact: A Defender should never focus on minions. Ever. If you're being swarmed by minions, have the Wizard drop a weak area attack on your head, popping every minion around you while dealing only a relatively small amount of damage to you. Wizard doesn't have an at-will area or multi-target attack? Get a new Wizard. Multi-target offense is his job.

I'm generally going for the big guys, but I use the cleaving stance and wipe out a minion while I'm at it.

Sounds like the biggest problem is lack of loot though. We leveled up from 1 and no one has more than a single +1 item.

Sipex
2011-01-05, 04:52 PM
If your DM is following loot charts the party should have received, so far.

12 magic items, between the levels of 1 and 6 (so maybe a +2 item in there).

This is discounting the items for level 4 though, I don't know how far you guys are through that.

nightwyrm
2011-01-05, 05:01 PM
It can depend on what kind of loot the DM is giving. If he's handing out a bunch of boots, helmets, belts etc. (ie. not the big 3), then the DM could technically be following the DMG guidelines but the PC's numbers would still be below expecatations.

Mando Knight
2011-01-05, 05:04 PM
I'm generally going for the big guys, but I use the cleaving stance and wipe out a minion while I'm at it.

That's acceptable, then. It's what the stance is there for, after all.

DragonBaneDM
2011-01-05, 05:10 PM
I'm generally going for the big guys, but I use the cleaving stance and wipe out a minion while I'm at it.

Sounds like the biggest problem is lack of loot though. We leveled up from 1 and no one has more than a single +1 item.

That's a huge issue. This explains your AC problem, actually. See if you could get the enchantment on your axe placed onto a sword, or maybe just any one hander. Not having that shield must be hurting ya, hard.

Try to nab 2 or 3 magic items per dungeon. They should all be at or above your level. If you don't wanna talk to your DM about it, after the baddies are all dead, say something like "Hold on guys... The monsters HAVE to have something useful around here somewhere... Let's check that eastern storage room again." Your DM should hopefully get the hint.

Also, I don't know if it's in Essentials, but you could always just take the Specialization(Plate). Also, there's plenty of little items, Boots of the Fencing Master, certain mounts, Bloodiron Armor, etc, that give you lots of little bonuses for stuff you do normally like shifting or hitting an enemy that'll help make you tough to hit.

Dunno if those items are IN essentials, but I remember one of the twenty different things I read about it said it was to be used with other 4th edition material. So maybe pick that up when ya get a chance.

Kurald Galain
2011-01-05, 05:11 PM
Sounds like the biggest problem is lack of loot though. We leveled up from 1 and no one has more than a single +1 item.
The loot guidelines are suggestions for the DM, not firm rules, and the game does not instantly become unbalanced if you deviate from them. Indeed, I don't know a single DM that does not deviate from them in some fashion.

No, having a 5% smaller chance to hit your enemies does not unbalance the game nor does it make your character worthless.

Mando Knight
2011-01-05, 05:34 PM
Also, I don't know if it's in Essentials, but you could always just take the Specialization(Plate).

Armor specializations are Paragon feats, and only worth +1 AC anyway.

DMClockwork
2011-01-05, 05:35 PM
What's the problem, in particular? So far, we know you think your AC is too low
and that your DM isn't following the equipment tables. Is the party inordinately struggling with every encounter? If so, how? Are party members dropping constantly or do you have to rest after each encounter?
More info might help solve the problem.

Doug Lampert
2011-01-05, 05:37 PM
The loot guidelines are suggestions for the DM, not firm rules, and the game does not instantly become unbalanced if you deviate from them. Indeed, I don't know a single DM that does not deviate from them in some fashion.

No, having a 5% smaller chance to hit your enemies does not unbalance the game nor does it make your character worthless.

But it does make advice based on, "go ahead and sell or throw away that level 5 magic weapon you just found" worth a lot less.

+1 to attack and damage and +1d6 on a crit is worth about 3 feats, and two of them pretty good feats at that! Yeah, not having it isn't crippling, but having it is a lot nicer than not having it. And that's WITHOUT accounting for the additional 5 temporary HP he gets for cleaving a minion.

Note that no only is the DM not following anything even vaguely close to the guideline level of loot, but he's ALSO failing to give them items they actually want! The "obvious" candidate for a two handed weapon is the sword and board guy? And the weapon doesn't even need to be two-handed to have that property!

I'm fine with giving the party crap items, it adds flavor, but when I do so I count them against the "cash loot" budget at resale price, not as one of the handful of supposedly useful items I'm supposed to give them!

For the original poster: That axe is a level 5 uncommon item, it's resale value is supposed to be 500 GP. Even if you have no ritual caster to make your own items, a +1 magic longsword has a book value of 360 GP, and by the DMG you should be able to buy one from a passing merchant for a 10-40% premium. Even at the 40% premium that's 504 GP. Or to put it another way, you can trade almost even for a +1 sword from the worst cheating merchant in the kingdom.

DougL

Moginheden
2011-01-05, 05:51 PM
What's the problem, in particular? So far, we know you think your AC is too low
and that your DM isn't following the equipment tables. Is the party inordinately struggling with every encounter?

Well in all but one encounter I've had to make 3 death saves, (or more) because I was on the ground at negative hit points. In EVERY encounter at least one of the party has been, and it's commonly 2 or more of us.

The DM either hasn't done D&D before or hasn't for a very long time. I started out subteling hinting that we needed more loot by trying to loot everything, then started complaining that we should be able to sell what was used against us, and human enemies should be carrying wealth of some sort, even a few coppers. I even tried to loot a fully-functional wagon with horse to pull it we liberated from the bad guys. The DM wouldn't let me because it wasn't mentioned in the campaign notes he's reading.

DMClockwork
2011-01-05, 06:08 PM
Yeah, it certainly sounds like the encounters are unbalanced, and not just because the party is down a few magic items. Half the party being unconscious and one save from death shouldn't really be happening every encounter.
The lack of loot doesn't sound like nearly as big a problem as the DM being unable to deviate from his notes, though.

Do you know how the other people in your group feel about the DM's game? Because if its more than just you in the group who has a problem with the way the game is run, it may be time for someone else to DM.

Suedars
2011-01-05, 07:19 PM
Yeah, it certainly sounds like the encounters are unbalanced, and not just because the party is down a few magic items. Half the party being unconscious and one save from death shouldn't really be happening every encounter.
The lack of loot doesn't sound like nearly as big a problem as the DM being unable to deviate from his notes, though.

Do you know how the other people in your group feel about the DM's game? Because if its more than just you in he group who has a problem with the way the game is run, it may be time for someone else to DM.

This. Talk to the party, see if they have similar frustrations, come to a consensus, and talk to the GM. Either try and get him to read through the DMG and follow its guidelines like rules until he becomes familiar enough with the system to deviate from them, find a new GM, or find a new game.

Kurald Galain
2011-01-06, 04:39 AM
But it does make advice based on, "go ahead and sell or throw away that level 5 magic weapon you just found" worth a lot less.
That's correct. I do not endorse that advice either. I'm just saying that any claims here of "the DM is Doing It Worng" are exaggerated.

I think his best bet is to ask some wizard in town to cast a shrink spell on that axe, turning it into a one-handed weapon instead (that's basically a transfer enchantment spell).


The "obvious" candidate for a two handed weapon is the sword and board guy?
The obvious candidate for a weapon is the fighter. Maybe it's a beginning DM who hasn't yet realized that almost all classes specialize in one particular kind of weapon (or implement).

See, the issue isn't that the fighter has the "wrong" weapon, or that he's 10% down on his defense. The issue is that the campaign is too tough, and getting a few more points on armor class is treating a symptom, not a cause.


Well in all but one encounter I've had to make 3 death saves, (or more) because I was on the ground at negative hit points. In EVERY encounter at least one of the party has been, and it's commonly 2 or more of us.
There we go.

Why is every encounter so tough? The biggest question here: do you have a leader? 4E gets way tougher if you don't have a leader. If you need more healing, I strongly suggest that several people in the party multiclass to a leader class (to get 1/day healing) and/or carry around healing potions. Some DMs will let a wizard heal an ally by using Mage Hand to feed him a healing pot, ask if your DM likes this.

Second, what about tactics? Could it be that the DM likes playing tactically and plays every monster to the best options, and your party doesn't? You can resolve this by either asking the DM to tone it down a notch, or by having a chat with your party members about teamwork.

And third, what level monsters are you facing?