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View Full Version : Melee Eldritch Blast [3.5]



SilverLeaf167
2011-01-03, 03:41 PM
Would it be somehow unbalanced to houserule the Eldritch Blast of a Warlock to be usable as a melee touch attack instead of a ranged ray? If not, would it be reasonable for the Warlock to be able to use it as an "aura" of his hand, damaging things touching it?

This question sprang into my mind when I was thinking how my players could free themselves from shackles. The Psion could Dimension Door himself out, but the DMPC Warblade would need help. I was just wondering if the Warlock could do something in that situation, by using the aura effect for example.

veven
2011-01-03, 03:57 PM
The invocation "Eldritch Glaive" does exactly that. It's in dragon magic IIRC

Dusk Eclipse
2011-01-03, 04:10 PM
The baleful utterance invocation mimics the spell shatter, which would help in the situation you described.

As for melee attacks using the eldritch blast, there is the already mentioned eldritch glaive invocation in Dragon Magic, other options include the eldritch claws feat in dragob 355 or 358 ( I don't remember exactly).. you know what? you should look for true_shinken's (a playgrounder) guide to melee warlocks.

Siosilvar
2011-01-03, 04:11 PM
The following is not word-for-word, but ought as well be.

Eldritch Glaive Least; 2nd; Blast Shape
Effect: Full attack (still touch) with eldritch blast as though holding a reach weapon; does not stack with actual weapon damage; can be used to make AoOs and threaten until next round.

But since you can attack anything within reach with the eldritch blast, there's really no difference between melee touch and the ray (except provoking AoOs). Go right ahead.

Keld Denar
2011-01-03, 04:18 PM
As far as the Warblade getting out, there are two manuevers that'll help. Mountain Hammer (SD2) allows you to ignore hardness. You can just headbutt the chains with your Unarmed Strike until they fall apart. Note, EVERYONE has an Unarmed Strike, even if you don't have Improved Unarmed Strike, base damage is 1d3+str for medium folks. The other maneuver is Insightful Strike (DM3). It does damage based on your Concentration check. Again, headbutt the chain till it breaks. Unless its Adamantine, a mid level warblade should be able to reliably overcome the hardness with his check.

In either case, he'll look like a total badass headbutting things until they break. That's using your head!

EDIT:

But since you can attack anything within reach with the eldritch blast, there's really no difference between melee touch and the ray (except provoking AoOs). Go right ahead.

Melee touches are keyed off Str, ranged touches are keyed of Dex. Assuming he's got a better Dex than Str, its actually kinda a drawback to make melee attacks.

Nickelgreko
2011-01-03, 04:41 PM
But since you can attack anything within reach with the eldritch blast, there's really no difference between melee touch and the ray (except provoking AoOs). Go right ahead.

I'll back this up. As far as I know, there is nothing preventing you from using ANY kind of - spell or spell-like - ranged touch attack as a melee touch attack
instead.

Dusk Eclipse
2011-01-03, 04:56 PM
I'll back this up. As far as I know, there is nothing preventing you from using ANY kind of - spell or spell-like - ranged touch attack as a melee touch attack
instead.

The fact it is explicity called a ranged touch attack? :smallconfused:

true_shinken
2011-01-03, 04:59 PM
Dusk Eclipse already mentioned it, but check the handbook in my sig.

KillianHawkeye
2011-01-03, 06:32 PM
I'll back this up. As far as I know, there is nothing preventing you from using ANY kind of - spell or spell-like - ranged touch attack as a melee touch attack
instead.

You can use a ray in melee range, but it provokes an AoO for being a ranged attack.

SilverLeaf167
2011-01-04, 03:49 AM
So, I could just allow him to use his ranged touch attack in melee (provoking an AoO) and just fluff it as touching something? What about the aura effect? He has already chosen his invocations, and went into Enlightened Spirit early on, so he doesn't really have that much space for choices.

To be more exact, the characters are level 10 gestalt Psion//Rogue, Warlock//Favored Soul and a Ranger//Warblade. The Warblade focuses on TWF, so most of his maneuvers are from Tiger Claw.

I realise that only one really needs to get free and help the others, but I'm looking for alternatives in case the Psion forgets he can use Dimension Door.

Person_Man
2011-01-04, 11:02 AM
You can use a ray in melee range, but it provokes an AoO for being a ranged attack.

This. You can target things at a range of 0 with a ranged touch attack. For example, if a Tiny enemy moves into your square to attack you. Or you could attack someone adjacent to you. However, all ranged attacks provoke an attack of opportunity. For this reason, it's generally best to take a 5 ft step or otherwise Move away from your enemy before using Eldritch Blast.

So in this case, the Warlock could easily use his Eldritch Blast to break his shackles, assuming that the damage from the Blast is higher then the Hardness of the shackles.

AyeGill
2011-01-04, 11:05 AM
Of course, you don't get to use all your iterative attacks(the way i read it) when using normal eldritch blast

SilverLeaf167
2011-01-04, 11:11 AM
Of course, you don't get to use all your iterative attacks(the way i read it) when using normal eldritch blast
Yup, I guess so. I guess Rapid Shot doesn't work with weapon-like spells?

AyeGill
2011-01-04, 11:30 AM
Yup, I guess so. I guess Rapid Shot doesn't work with weapon-like spells?

Maybe. I'll have to check.

Keld Denar
2011-01-04, 11:30 AM
Yup, I guess so. I guess Rapid Shot doesn't work with weapon-like spells?

No. EB is a standard action, not an attack action, like...swinging a sword, tripping a fool, or starting a grapple. Think of EB less as a weapon and more as a spell. You can't Rapid Shot with a Scorching Ray for the same reason.

SilverLeaf167
2011-01-04, 11:46 AM
Yup, that's what I thought. The player let out a (sarcastic-ish) gasp when he realized that the Ranger//Warblade could do 5d4+15d6+10 damage in the first round of battle, and asked me about ways to get multiple Eldritch Blasts (which are only 5d6). Are there any of those?
I've heard about Quicken SLA, but how the heck can a Warlock even use it for his Eldritch Blast? For example, a level 10 Warlock's Eldritch Blast is the equivalent of a 5th-level spell, thus requiring a Warlock level of 18. However, when you finally are a level 18 Warlock, the Blast is the equivalent of a 9th-level spell, and thus can't be quickened at all.

AyeGill
2011-01-04, 11:51 AM
Yup, that's what I thought. The player let out a (sarcastic-ish) gasp when he realized that the Ranger//Warblade could do 5d4+15d6+10 damage in the first round of battle, and asked me about ways to get multiple Eldritch Blasts (which are only 5d6). Are there any of those?
I've heard about Quicken SLA, but how the heck can a Warlock even use it for his Eldritch Blast? For example, a level 10 Warlock's Eldritch Blast is the equivalent of a 5th-level spell, thus requiring a Warlock level of 18. However, when you finally are a level 18 Warlock, the Blast is the equivalent of a 9th-level spell, and thus can't be quickened at all.

it can't be applied to EB, although it would be a reasonable houserule to let him lower his damage by 4d6 to quicken it(4 spell levels = 8 caster levels = 4d6)

SilverLeaf167
2011-01-04, 11:53 AM
So have the people suggesting it simply forgotten the level problem? They have never suggested any houserules about reducing the damage.

JBento
2011-01-04, 11:54 AM
It's not :smallsmile: Check the errata: an unmodified eldritch blast is now always the equivalent of a 1st lvl spell.

You can get multiple eldritch, well, touches by picking up the Eldritch Glaive invocation.

Also, check the errata for Tome of Magic - I can't recall if Leraje retains her nifty ricochet ability, so you can hit two targets for the (action) price of one.

Scarlet-Devil
2011-01-04, 11:58 AM
Yup, that's what I thought. The player let out a (sarcastic-ish) gasp when he realized that the Ranger//Warblade could do 5d4+15d6+10 damage in the first round of battle, and asked me about ways to get multiple Eldritch Blasts (which are only 5d6). Are there any of those?
I've heard about Quicken SLA, but how the heck can a Warlock even use it for his Eldritch Blast? For example, a level 10 Warlock's Eldritch Blast is the equivalent of a 5th-level spell, thus requiring a Warlock level of 18. However, when you finally are a level 18 Warlock, the Blast is the equivalent of a 9th-level spell, and thus can't be quickened at all.

WRONG! Warlock received official errata years ago by the fellow who wrote it; eldritch blast always counts as a first level spell for those purposes unless modified by an essence/shape. Not that anyone cares anyway, but another thing people seem to forget a lot because it ain't that useful anyway is that hideous blow does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Edit: Blast! Ninja'd.

SilverLeaf167
2011-01-04, 12:19 PM
Okay, thanks. I'll suggest that to him.