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karossii
2011-01-03, 03:46 PM
Okay, I played Exalted years and years ago, and have forgotten more or less everything I knew about it. And I played 1e, but will soon be joining a new 2e game - so what little I knew will probably be of very little help if/when it comes back to me.

I have the core book and a few others, but have had so very little free time to read up on it all, and I need to get a character going. We're going to all be Solars, but nothing else has been decided. I am one of 2 definite players, with 2-3 possible others... so I need to be able to support myself in case we are a very small party.

I am leaning toward a Twilight character, based on initial observances; I tend to prefer the 'makers' of any game, and they seem best suited to be a crafter of some kind. With that said, I do not fully (or even much at all) understand the crafting system yet, so if it is overly complicated, I may best stay away, even if it is my preferred style.

The character concept is of a spoiled noble / lady's man before he Exalted. At least moderately wealthy, he was a social butterfly and a Don Juan of sorts, who privately was fascinated with the ability to create anything he could (though due to his shame, for some undefined reason, he did his best to hide his abilities to craft). After Exalting, I see him as a MacGuyver of the Solars, relying on his quick wits and his creations (I realize he wouldn't be able to MacGuyver up items on the spot, but if he has a selection of things he carries with him to use, I could fluff it up as on the fly combining junk to do some new thing, or whatever...)

So... while I have read some guides online, read as much of the books as I can, and come up with a very basic character build, I am not at all satisfied with it... so instead of posting it I am just asking for help with a new build. (I can post what I have if requested, but I am hoping for something much better suited to the concept above than what I have made, so don't want to distract from the concept with a crappy build)

Any help is appreciated!

Tavar
2011-01-03, 03:58 PM
Well, with regards to crafting, information on using such abilities are pretty sparse in Core, same with sorcery. If you really want to go in that direction, you'll probably want to get Wonders of the Lost age/Oadenol's codex.

Reynard
2011-01-03, 04:31 PM
Wonders gives a whole host of Artifacts, but little detail on the crafting process.

Oadenol's Codex is what you need, and it also includes stuff on building manses, which is real late-game stuff.

Otherwise... your Concept seems much more like an Eclipse who has Favoured Craft/Lore than a Twilight with Socialize.

I'm not sure what we can do to help here, except a few warnings such as:
Lore is better for charms that'll help you craft than Craft is. Craft charm tend to suck a little bit, while Wyld Shaping is pure awesomeness. Of course, a Craft Excellency would help, as would Wonder-Forging Genius (a Charm added in Oadenol's.)

Tavar
2011-01-03, 04:36 PM
Wonders, from what I know, gives more info on artifacts, which is useful because alot of the info in Oadenol's amounts to "compare to another artifact to determine level, and here's how you build each level."

Also, you might try getting your ST to change the craft rules a bit, because otherwise they're a gigantic point sink.

Oh, and you might try seeing if you can use the latest Errata. It helps something quite a bit.

TheCountAlucard
2011-01-03, 07:46 PM
I realize he wouldn't be able to MacGuyver up items on the spot...The heck you wouldn't. :smalltongue: Shortly after character creation, our Twilight crafter stunted building a full-sized airship with martial arts (admittedly, still took him ten in-game hours to draw up plans). With the right combo of Charms, you can craft stupid-fast.

After all, this is the game where you tell the concept of "impossible" to go sit in a corner. :smalltongue:

Tavar
2011-01-03, 08:13 PM
That requires a pretty high starting essence, doesn't it?

TheCountAlucard
2011-01-04, 12:08 AM
That requires a pretty high starting essence, doesn't it?Still doable, especially if you take flaws into consideration. :smalltongue:

Tavar
2011-01-04, 12:27 AM
Not without storyteller permission. First off, most storytellers wouldn't let you take that many flaws to begin with. Secondly, Essence usually takes over a year to raise, after essence 3. You usually start a couple months after Exaltation.

TheCountAlucard
2011-01-04, 01:47 AM
Not without storyteller permission.Of course, of course... that's a given, really. You can't play an Exalt if the Storyteller doesn't give you permission.


First off, most storytellers wouldn't let you take that many flaws to begin with.You only need six points' worth of flaws to make it to Essence 5.


Secondly, Essence usually takes over a year to raise, after essence 3.Actually, it takes months, IIRC.


You usually start a couple months after Exaltation.Still, it can often be handwaved if you justify it well enough in your backstory...

karossii
2011-01-04, 01:47 AM
Thanks for the info thus far...

I do have ST permission to have been Exalted for a while - I hadn't had any idea about the Essence bit, but for flavor I had already decided this character has been an Exalt for 8-12 years...

And I have permission to use Flaws, though I hadn't asked if I could take more than the typical 10 point limit; how much more would be required?

Since we're getting more to the meat of this kind of stuff, and since it is relevant, here's the backgrounds and flaws I have selected thus far; though I am not sure the rest of the build is that good (and I never even selected any charms, or spent any of my bonus points yet)...

Backstory and MotivationBorn into minor nobility, Matthias spent his youth constantly inventing and crafting - only to be belittled and humiliated by his father and two older brothers at his 'commoner' and 'tradesman' hobbies. Shamed out of openly pursuing his inner passion, Matthias overcompensated and soon became an epicurean and hedonistic pursuer of pleasures.

When he Exalted in his middling twenties, his natural tendencies for meticulous order, scrupulous behavior, and a penchant for tinkering resurged, and an inner battle between the chaos of pleasure and the orderly mind of a scholar ensued.

He desires to be rid of his baser elements - or, not so much rid of them as in control of them; but finds himself yielding to his lecherous ways all too readily. He no longer struggles against a shame of his true passion for creation, knowing now from whence it stems, and the true marvels and beauties he can create; he has striven to incorporate his tinkering into every aspect of his life.

Matthias wishes to use his craft and charisma to enable others to be great, more than to become the shining hero himself; not so much the power behind the throne, which indicates manipulation and control of a leader, but more of an enabler for others to do what is good and right. He seeks to restore the Solar Exalted to at least social acceptance, if not dominance over the other Exlated, mortals, Abyssals, and similar forces which he sees as evil.

He has a code of honor he struggles to uphold; he wishes to both practice and promote not abstinence from vice, so much as responsible enjoyment of alcohol, foods, and possibly those mild drugs which are not addictive. He does try to practice and promote abstinence from sex outside of wedlock. He promotes honesty in all things, and a sense of order and cleanliness. These are all major struggles for him especially, and he does not condemn others, but uses himself more often than not as an illustration of what one should not be doing.

Virtue Flaw: Overindulgence

3 point Flaw: "Vice: Womanizing" - this indicates that Matthias has great difficulty in passing up a chance to seduce a beautiful woman. At any time Matthias encounters a woman who is not an active enemy and who has an appearance of 3 dots or greater, he must successfully roll Temperance against a difficulty of 3 or succumb to the temptation to seduce her.

2 point Flaw: "Vice: Bacchanalia" - this indicates that Matthias has great difficulty in passing up a chance to party and drink. At any time he encounters a revel of any sort which involves more than 3 people and the consumption of alcohol, he must successfully roll Temperance against a difficulty of 3 or succumb to the temptation to party with them.

5 point Flaw: "Code of Honor" - this indicates that Matthias has a personal code of ethics which he struggles to maintain. This code is detailed in his Motivation. He must also always tell the truth to anyone who is not an active enemy without first failing a Conviction check with a 4-die bonus. If he wishes to violate his code of honor or lie to a non-enemy and does not fail the Conviction check, he must spend 5 Willpower to do so.

One of the reasons I wanted the 8-12 years between Exaltation and current, he has a background of Cult (1 dot for now) which is comprised of all (or most) of the women he has seduced since he Exalted. As the story progresses, at times when the ST feels appropriate, the cult will increase based on his reluctant seductions of new women.

So... as to Abilities, I was planning on taking Craft: Air (2), Fire (2) Genesis (1), Water (1), Wood (1), Magitech (3), and of course Lore (3) to allow for Magitech. Other than that, I plan on having Martial Arts, Dodge, and some social skills.

I have a basic idea of some Charms I want, but nothing concrete as of yet - of course crafting and social based charms would be good choices, as would Essence Gathering Technique, and the Seven Shadows Dodge technique...or something like that?

Any major mistakes so far? Any advice to truly become the MacGuyver-esque character that I now see may be possible? (And how many more flaw points would I need?)

Thanks again!

TheCountAlucard
2011-01-04, 01:58 AM
And I have permission to use Flaws, though I hadn't asked if I could take more than the typical 10 point limit; how much more would be required?You should be fine with what you've got. :smallsmile:


I have a basic idea of some Charms I want, but nothing concrete as of yet - of course crafting and social based charms would be good choices, as would Essence Gathering Technique, and the Seven Shadows Dodge technique...or something like that?Essence-Gathering Temper works very well with your anima power, so it'd be a very powerful choice. Seven Shadow Evasion's always a good one to pick up. To be able to withstand the social stuff, it'll do to have a dot or two each in Presence and Integrity (and probably a Charm from each of those as well). As for crafting stuff, if you plan on doing artifacts, Wonder-Forging Genius should be a good choice.

Xefas
2011-01-04, 01:58 AM
You only need six points' worth of flaws to make it to Essence 5.

Actually, I think you only need three. +1 Essence is 7bp, right? You start with 18bp, so with 3 more, you could hit 21 and spend it all on Essence. (Also, keep in mind that I think this only works with Solar/Abyssal/Infernal characters. If I recall, the others have lines in their chargen to the effect of "An [Exalt Type] character cannot begin play with an Essence higher than [3 or 4]". I think...I could be wrong.)

TheCountAlucard
2011-01-04, 02:00 AM
Actually, I think you only need three. +1 Essence is 7bp, right? You start with 18bp, so with 3 more, you could hit 21 and spend it all on Essence.My bad, forgot about the changes they're wanting to make. Was still going with the core book's fifteen freebies.

karossii
2011-01-04, 02:04 AM
Where does it say you get 18 instead of 15? My ST will more than likely allow that, but only if I can show it to him...

Also, how did the above mentioned character go about "stunted building a full-sized airship with martial arts" . . ? What charms were involved? I don't think I would quite want to build that, but something similar may be in the plans at some point...

Reynard
2011-01-04, 02:07 AM
Where does it say you get 18 instead of 15? My ST will more than likely allow that, but only if I can show it to him...

Also, how did the above mentioned character go about "stunted building a full-sized airship with martial arts" . . ? What charms were involved? I don't think I would quite want to build that, but something similar may be in the plans at some point...

Grab the latest Errata. Sadly, due to WW being run by crazy people. you'll have to go through DriveThruRPG.

It's still free, though, and you don't actually have to give out your card details.

Xefas
2011-01-04, 02:09 AM
Where does it say you get 18 instead of 15? My ST will more than likely allow that, but only if I can show it to him...

The most recent errata book which you can download from here for free (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=84593) (there might be other places, but I got mine from here) has the newest character creation rules.

EDIT: It also has quite a few complete charms hidden in it. There's an entire martial arts style in one section and, possibly more to your interest, on page 120 is the most stupidly powerful craft charm since Wyld Shaping Technique. (An Essence 4 charm that gives out 150 free successes? Without even a mote commitment? Without even needing to be combo'd? And it has other benefits? :smalleek:)

TheCountAlucard
2011-01-04, 02:21 AM
What charms were involved?He had a Combo of "Craftsman Needs No Tools," a Craft Excellency, and some third Charm that I don't recall right this moment (perhaps Words-As-Workshop Method? :smallconfused:). Craftsman Needs No Tools both removes the requirements for any equipment you'd normally need for crafting and reduces the time it takes for you to do it: if you bring yourself to Essence 5, CNNT should get you fifteen hours' worth of work done with every hour you work. Also, let me clarify, this wasn't an artifact airship; it was a mundane one. He may, IIRC, have also had a set of Bracers of Universal Crafting or the artifact that gives him extra arms to work with.

karossii
2011-01-04, 03:56 AM
Okay, so here's the highly revised character build. The latest errata made some significant creation changes!

What I posted above; the backstory, motivation, and flaws, hasn't changed.

I am debating talking to the ST about upping the points for my flaws (both vices seem more potent that 2/3 points), and possibly adding another flaw or two, to allow some more background points and/or a merit or two. I would love more resources, and/or a hidden manse... in fact I think that two merits, Heirloom and Hidden Manse, would work well together to allow me an estate with access to a nice workshop and of course the manse hidden therein. But even as is, I think this should be a playable character...

(please forgive me if there's an obvious template for posting the character I am unaware of; I'm just listing it as best I can...)

Attributes
S/D/S: 1/3/3
C/M/A: 4/4/3
P/I/W: 3/3/3

Abilities
Martial Arts: 5
Dodge: 5
(F) Integrity: 1
(F) Presence: 1
Resistance: 5
(F) Survival: 1
Bureaucracy: 1
(F) Ride: 1
(F) Socialize: 1
(C) Craft [Air]: 2
(C) Craft [Fire]: 2
(C) Craft [Genesis]: 1
(C) Craft [Magitech]: 3
(C) Craft [Water]: 1
(C) Craft [Wood]: 1
(C) Lore: 3
(C) Medicine: 1
(C) Occult: 1

Backgrounds
Cult: 1
Familiar: 3
Resources: 3

Charms
First Craft Excellency
Second Craft Excellency
Master Needs No Tools
First Dodge Excellency
Shadow Over Water
Seven Shadow Evasion (Conviction Flaw)
First Resistance Excellency
Whirlwind Armor Donning Prada
Hauberk Lightning Gesture

Virtues
Compassion: 1
Conviction: 3
Temperance: 2
Valor: 3

Virtue Flaw: Overindulgence

Essence: 5
I haven't yet purchased equipment, I've determined I will start with a monkey familiar (which gives me 5 bonus motes, plus a fun companion to do RP with), and over time upgrade him. The ST will allow me to spend 3XP/dot to increase my backgrounds, and I plan to upgrade him to a Simhata eventually.

Any suggestions to tweak this build, or remake something else which might be better suited to the concept I've posted?

(As a note, the ST now is calling the character 'Tony Stark' and intends to toss in Iron Man references; between the playboy inventor backstory and the ability to rapidly summon armor from nowhere... well, I can see where he came up with it, lol. I don't know if I want to look at finding more charms/equipment to play into that, or to try and avoid it...)

TheCountAlucard
2011-01-04, 04:29 AM
Any suggestions to tweak this build, or remake something else which might be better suited to the concept I've posted?Just a question, why'd you favor Survival? Do you intend on putting more into that later?

And I think you don't meet CNNT's prerequisites; you need Craft 4 to take it.


(As a note, the ST now is calling the character 'Tony Stark' and intends to toss in Iron Man references; between the playboy inventor backstory and the ability to rapidly summon armor from nowhere... well, I can see where he came up with it, lol. I don't know if I want to look at finding more charms/equipment to play into that, or to try and avoid it...)Either, neither, both. It's your character, after all. And you'll want to Combo together Hauberk-Lightening Gesture and Whirlwind Armor-Donning Prana; then you'll have an awesome transformation sequence. :smallcool: Probably also want to add in a perfect defense to said Combo, just in case. :smalltongue:

karossii
2011-01-04, 04:36 AM
Does it not count that I have 10 ranks in craft skills altogether? Even if it doesn't technically qualify with the ranks spread among all those crafts, would it be unbalancing to try and convince my ST to allow it based on that rationale?

I wasn't sure what else to make a favored; I almost made it Bureaucracy, but that didn't seem to fit any better than Survival... any other abilities you see that might be more properly suited to this character's flavor?

I'm not certain how combo's work... the description of H-LC says it can be used with WADP; do I have to spend points to make the two a combo before I can use them together? And would Seven Shadow Evasion be a good defense to mix in?

TheCountAlucard
2011-01-04, 04:43 AM
Does it not count that I have 10 ranks in craft skills altogether?I'm afraid not, but yeah, you might try appealing to your ST about that.


I wasn't sure what else to make a favored; I almost made it Bureaucracy, but that didn't seem to fit any better than Survival... any other abilities you see that might be more properly suited to this character's flavor?Not sure, sorry. If you intend to get any Martial Arts Charms in the future to back up your dots in it, it might help to make it a favored Ability, but that's more of a mechanical issue than a roleplaying one.


I'm not certain how combo's work... the description of H-LC says it can be used with WADP; do I have to spend points to make the two a combo before I can use them together?Unless it says otherwise, you still need to make the two a Combo to successfully do this. :smallfrown:


And would Seven Shadow Evasion be a good defense to mix in?Yeah, and maybe Reflex Sidestep Technique if you're feeling particularly paranoid. :smalltongue:

karossii
2011-01-04, 04:54 AM
Not sure, sorry. If you intend to get any Martial Arts Charms in the future to back up your dots in it, it might help to make it a favored Ability, but that's more of a mechanical issue than a roleplaying one.I didn't think favored abilities affected the cost of Charms... did I miss something? (obviously, I did...)


Unless it says otherwise, you still need to make the two a Combo to successfully do this. :smallfrown:I suppose I need to read up on combos then...

Thanks for the help!

TheCountAlucard
2011-01-04, 04:59 AM
I didn't think favored abilities affected the cost of Charms... did I miss something? (obviously, I did...)Favored Charms are a whole 2 experience points cheaper than non-favored. It's not a lot, but if you find yourself eventually buying up a bunch of them, you might as well enjoy the discount.

karossii
2011-01-04, 05:01 AM
I have another question, per the errata I get 4 specialties for free... do I get a free dot in each of the 4 specialties, then?

TheCountAlucard
2011-01-04, 05:04 AM
I have another question, per the errata I get 4 specialties for free... do I get a free dot in each of the 4 specialties, then?I think it means you get four dots' worth of specialties... so you could get four one-dot specialties, two two-dot specialties, one three-dot specialty and one one-dot specialty, or one two-dot specialty and two one-dot specialties. See what I'm saying?

karossii
2011-01-04, 05:13 AM
That's great; I didn't pick any specialties (unless the craft abilities are considered specialties) - so now I can add one or two...!