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nealpb
2011-01-03, 04:23 PM
Here a small background storey for you. My party unlocks a monster and one of his minions that likes to control other monster by taking other the body and using for him self (possession) but has the boss gets stronger the minion start having more control and start gave to control monster more power (str, con, spells ect) something the base monster would have. I don’t like using psionics for this magic only. D&D game, any ideas?

hamishspence
2011-01-03, 04:35 PM
Fiend of Possession PRC in Fiend Folio, or Possessor Fiend upgrade in Fiendish Codex 1 (+2 to CR, allows fiend to possess, and even transform, a victim) are the classics.

Also, the Malevolence ability that ghosts can have in MM.

nealpb
2011-01-03, 04:43 PM
Fiend of Possession PRC in Fiend Folio, or Possessor Fiend upgrade in Fiendish Codex 1 (+2 to CR, allows fiend to possess, and even transform, a victim) are the classics.

Also, the Malevolence ability that ghosts can have in MM.

i will look in to it

hamishspence
2011-01-03, 04:45 PM
The Ghostwalk campaign setting (3.0 but has a 3.5 online update at WOTC) might also be an interesting source for monsters (outsiders called "ghosts" rather than undead called ghosts) with an array of options- including possession.

nealpb
2011-01-03, 11:25 PM
Fiend of Possession PRC in Fiend Folio, or Possessor Fiend upgrade in Fiendish Codex 1 (+2 to CR, allows fiend to possess, and even transform, a victim) are the classics.

is this a template you put on a monster?


The Ghostwalk campaign setting (3.0 but has a 3.5 online update at WOTC) might also be an interesting source for monsters (outsiders called "ghosts" rather than undead called ghosts) with an array of options- including possession.

do you have a websit for this? i dont have ghostwalker stuff

Urpriest
2011-01-03, 11:36 PM
is this a template you put on a monster?


Fiend of Possession is a Prestige Class, the other one is more like an Alternate Class Feature but for monsters instead of characters.

nealpb
2011-01-03, 11:49 PM
Magic Jar will that work or Possessor Fiend upgrade in Fiendish Codex 1 would be batter?

nealpb
2011-01-03, 11:58 PM
(Possessor Fiend upgrade in Fiendish Codex 1) the other one is more like an Alternate Class Feature but for monsters instead of characters.
any monster?

Urpriest
2011-01-04, 12:12 AM
any monster?

No, specifically fiends, so evil outsiders. It might be even more specific than that. There are slightly different rules for possession in each source, I'd advise comparing them and seeing which achieves what you want best.

nealpb
2011-01-04, 02:54 PM
No, specifically fiends, so evil outsiders. It might be even more specific than that. There are slightly different rules for possession in each source, I'd advise comparing them and seeing which achieves what you want best.



DEMONIC POSSESSION
Sometimes a fiend with at least 4 Hit Dice and a Charisma
score of at least 13 has the supernatural ability to shuck its
physical form and take on an incorporeal one that enables it
to possess other creatures—or even objects. Its incorporeal
form has the immunities normal to that creature subtype
(see Monster Manual III 214 for details). When such a fiend
possesses a creature or object, even force effects no longer
affect it. Only certain spells and abilities can affect a possessing
fi end (see Exorcism, page 26, for details). Any other sort
of attack—magical or otherwise—directed against the fiend
affects the possessed creature or object instead.

that all it says no outsider assuming evil (DEMONIC) even a ghost can do this right there no outsiders.


Fiend of Possession PRC in Fiend Folio,.
how would you add that if they dont have classes use the HD as class?

LOTRfan
2011-01-04, 05:22 PM
how would you add that if they dont have classes use the HD as class?

Yes, assuming they meet the prerequisites, any monster can enter a prestige class without having levels in base classes.

nealpb
2011-01-05, 02:12 PM
can a fiend possess undead like skeletons or other undead?

hamishspence
2011-01-05, 02:21 PM
As far as I can tell, yes- it's not specifically a mind-affecting ability- so undead may not get any special immunity (though all creatures get a Will save to resist possession, and "protection from Evil" spells stop it completely.)

Urpriest
2011-01-05, 04:50 PM
that all it says no outsider assuming evil (DEMONIC) even a ghost can do this right there no outsiders.


Fiend=Evil Outsider. It's what the term means.

hamishspence
2011-01-05, 04:55 PM
I wasn't sure if there was a general principle that it's "Extraplanar outsider" as well.

Having the Evil subtype- and the Outsider subtype- are a big part, though.

LOTRfan
2011-01-05, 04:58 PM
I wasn't sure if there was a general principle that it's "Extraplanar outsider" as well.

Well, in the Eberron Campaign Setting, it is mentioned that Couatls can be channeled, so I would assume that evil native outsiders can do the same with demonic possession (within reason, of course. No Tiefling Possessors :smallannoyed:)

hamishspence
2011-01-05, 05:05 PM
Evil subtype might be a minimum in this case. As I recall, Fiend of Possession specifies this. But it may be more restrictive than the "Possessor Fiend" trait from BoVD/Eberron/FC1.

Mind you- if "celestial" requires the Good subtype in the same way as Fiend of Possession requires the Evil subtype- coautls shouldn't count for BoED channelling- since while being Always Good, they don't have the subtype.

If "Always Evil" + Outsider, counts as a Fiend for the Possessor Fiend trait (even in the absence of the Evil subtype) then Half-Fiends would qualify.

And so- channelling could work the same way, and a celestial could be any outsider that is either Always Good, or has the Good subtype.

Lord Loss
2011-01-05, 05:09 PM
I'd say you can Rule of Cool/Rule of Plot this one. If this can be done within the demon/ghost terms, that's great. If not, chuck the rules out the window. The players will never know, it will make for an interesting experience and it'll let you handle it in a way that doesn't have you stressed about wether this works by RAW.

nealpb
2011-01-06, 03:58 PM
the only thing i dont like about this is CR+2 for a +4 to any stat. what i was looking for useing or control as a puppet not changing in to him. not to shot you down i can stell use this but not what i was loking for

Urpriest
2011-01-06, 04:41 PM
the only thing i dont like about this is CR+2 for a +4 to any stat. what i was looking for useing or control as a puppet not changing in to him. not to shot you down i can stell use this but not what i was loking for

Ok, I legitimately don't understand what you're asking here. In what way do any of the things we've provided involve "changing in to him"?

nealpb
2011-01-06, 05:01 PM
if you dont have to book here some highlights for you



DEMONIC POSSESSION pg 21
A fiend with this ability has a Challenge Rating 2 higher than standard fiends of its kind. For example, a succubus with the possession ability is CR 9 rather than CR 7.



Ally: If the victim is aware of the possessing fiend and willing to serve as its host, the fiend can grant a +4 profane bonus to any one of the possessed creature’s ability scores. This bonus is granted at the conclusion of a bargaining period between the fiend and the possessed creature (they can communicate telepathically with each other). The fiend is in control of this bonus and can take it away as a free action if the possessed creature fails to act in a desired manner. If the possessed creature continues to disobey the fi end’s instructions, the fiend can go from ally to controller or from ally to enemy as a free action.


Transformer: ......... Complete transformation takes at least four days (one for each quarter of the host’s body). Once a victim has been completely transformed, the demon has essentially taken the host’s place. At that point, the demon has access to all the powers and abilities it normally possesses. The victim is trapped within the demon—effectively functioning as a “rider” in the demon’s body—and can neither communicate nor exercise any power.

thats what im takeing about

nealpb
2011-01-06, 05:08 PM
i can use that when to boss says go here find them and kill them 4 days later fiend will attack them. why do you think the some monster keeps coming back :) :)

nealpb
2011-01-08, 10:56 PM
no other ideas?

Grynning
2011-01-09, 12:29 AM
If you want to go with a non-fiendish route, the Tsochar (most extensively described in Lords of Madness) are Aberrations who take over and "wear" other creatures (usually spellcasters). The host can still be conscious, but tortured via mind-shattering pain into obeying the Tsochar's will. They are super-creepy.