Knife Throwing Rogue Build

[Aust Nailo]

So I'm playing around at building a knife throwing rogue build, this is what I have so far.

Knife Throwing Rogue

Human

Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 3/Rogue 1/Master Thrower 2/ Invisible Blade 5/ Master Thrower 3

Human Bonus- Weapon Focus (dagger)
Flaw-TWF
Lvl 1-Point Blank Shot
Lvl 3-Precise Shot
Lvl 6-Daring Outlaw
Lvl 9-Far Shot
Lvl 12-ITWF
Lvl 15-GTWF

The rest of the levels and feats are up in the air. What do you guys think? I tried to keep the character playable and effective throughout the build.

[Greenish]

Swashbuckler levels and Daring Outlaw seem like waste.

[Aust Nailo]

Think so? It gets Weapon Finesse, Int to damage, and stacks more sneak attack while keeping BaB

[nealpb]

So I'm playing around at building a knife throwing rogue build, this is what I have so far.

Knife Throwing Rogue

Human

Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 3/Rogue 1/Master Thrower 2/ Invisible Blade 5/ Master Thrower 3

Human Bonus- Weapon Focus (dagger)
Flaw-TWF
Lvl 1-Point Blank Shot
Lvl 3-Precise Shot
Lvl 6-Daring Outlaw
Lvl 9-Far Shot
Lvl 12-ITWF
Lvl 15-GTWF

The rest of the levels and feats are up in the air. What do you guys think? I tried to keep the character playable and effective throughout the build.

i hate to say this if you have more the 2 attack you need to puck up quick draw
1 main, 1 off hand
quick draw
2 main, 2 off hand
quick draw
3 main, 3 off hand
ect
or its
1 main, 1 off hand
move to draw more daggers

[Saint GoH]

Ideally you want Master Thrower as soon as possible (i.e. before Invisible Blade). Less SA dice, but touch attacks and 2 daggers per attack is smexy. Likewise, I had thought Swashbucklers Insightful Strike only applied to melee attacks, so Daring Outlaw is less appealing imo, especially if you are using 4 rogue levels to 3 Swashbuckler. Loss of BaB and no discernible bonus. Also, something that may be worth considering...

Replace Swashbuckler with Fighter levels (Either SA version or regular)--there are some excellent fighter ACF's that allow dexterity to damage (very helpful for throwers)

Replace Rogue with Rokugan Ninja-- Rokugan Ninja has full BaB, poison use, and SA dice. Slower then rogue progression but still helpful

Master Of Masks (extra SA Dice) -- Self Explanatory

Nightsong Enforcer -- Moar SA Dice, full BaB

Swordsage-- Drop this level in somewhere to grab Assassins Stance for an extra 2d6 SA. Plus more dex to damage with shadowblade.

Hopefully that'll get ya going.

[Greenish]

Think so? It gets Weapon Finesse, Int to damage, and stacks more sneak attack while keeping BaBWeapon Finesse is nice, but does nothing for thrown weapons. Insightful Strike is okay if you have decent int. You gain one extra SA dice by burning a feat, which isn't much.

[Aust Nailo]

^ Ah that's my bad for not fully explaining my build. He will be TWF in melee, tumbling around to get flanks and throwing knives whenever people are to far away to stab. And when people are really far away using wands to blast them.
Primary stat is Dex followed by Int, Cha, Con, keeping Wis a flat 10 and dumping Str.

[Saint GoH]

In that case, you may want to avoid Master Thrower since it doesnt help your melee any. Might I suggest Bloodstorm blade from ToB? Also progresses manuevers while giving you the ability to toss things about (and have them return to you).

[Greenish]

Might I suggest Bloodstorm blade from ToB? Also progresses manuevers while giving you the ability to toss things about (and have them return to you).Bloodstorm Blade doesn't progress maneuvers, it doesn't even grant full IL.

[Lord.Sorasen]

Out of curiosity, why are you going with 5 levels of invisible blade? I see the class as having 4 real features:

Full base Attack Bonus: This is good, but a SA style fighter gets this AND d10 hit die, and without prereqs. Benefits to feint: This is cool, but feint attacks specifically only apply to melee attacks, so it doesn't really apply to your character concept. Bonus: Int to AC. This is cool, but it fails if you have armor on, which makes it a little less useful. Bonus sneak attack damage: This is your focus, it seems, but you can get this with fighter, or even with more rogue really. Bleeding wound: This is something interesting. I don't know how useful such a thing would be, but I suppose if you can manage to get several hits in a term, it would probably add up more than 1d6 would.

If you have 13 int and point blank shot, there is a feat called "bow feint" from dragon magazine that allows you to make a ranged feint from 30'. This would make the ability to possibly gain sneak attack as a free action much more worth it for your character, and is something to consider.

Master thrower can make a sleight of hand check to make someone vulnerable to sneak attacks, but it takes a move action and isn't really worth it. The most useful skill here is palm throw, which as written would appear to double your attacks per round with daggers (am I reading that wrong? It doesn't seem like I am. Two weapons for one attack roll).

Swashbuckler definitely seems like a waste, as does daring outlaw. Insightful strike is alright, but you could do better. I don't really know how swordsage works but it was suggested here, that might be a good idea.





EDIT: Whoops, didn't see your later post.

Dragon 340 offers a feat called "backstab". the prereq is combat reflexes, and essentially you get an attack of opportunity if someone attacks someone you flank who isn't you. Vexing flanker from player's handbook II will give you a +2 to attack when flanking. I'm not quite sure what else to offer from this perspective.

[Loki Eremes]

Master Thrower is a good start.
Also look for WHISPERKNIFE PrC (races of the wild if my memory doesnt fail me)

Its for Halfling or Gnomes, but ask your master to change it if you like it :smalltongue:

[gorfnab]

Here are some Dagger throwing builds I made a while back for a friend of mine. The first one is okay, the second one is not too shabby, and the third one is a little crazy. All of them eventually get 16+ BAB, 16 daggers thrown per round if ranged, 7 melee attacks per round, and decent sneak attack. They're mainly scaled because of not knowing what available source material my friend had access to. Hopefully these may give you some ideas on building a dagger thrower.

Halfling Thrower 1
Halfling
1. Rogue - Halfling Rogue RS - Point Blank Shot
2. Swashbuckler - B: Weapon Finesse
3. Rogue - Precise Shot
4. Rogue - Halfling Rogue RS
5. Swashbuckler
6. Swashbuckler - Two Weapon Fighting
7. Fighter - B: Weapon Focus Dagger
8. Master Thrower - B: Quick Draw
9. Master Thrower - Far Shot
10. Whisperknife - B: Rapid Shot
11. Whisperknife
12. Whisperknife - Improved Two Weapon Fighting
13. Master Thrower
14. Master Thrower - B: Snatch Arrows
15. Master Thrower - B: Improved Critical Dagger, Greater Two Weapon Fighting
16. Invisible Blade
17. Invisible Blade
18. Invisible Blade - Improved Precise Shot
19. Invisible Blade
20. Invisible Blade

Halfling Rogue Racial Substitution - Races of the Wild page 160
Whisperknife - Races of the Wild page 135
Swashbuckler - Complete Warrior page 11
Master Thrower - Complete Warrior page 58
Invisible Blade - Complete Warrior page 45

Master Thrower weapon triks - Palm Throw (level 8), Two With One Blow (13), Weak Spot (15)



Halfling Thrower 2

Strongheart Halfling
1. Rogue - Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
2. Swashbuckler - B: Weapon Finesse
3. Rogue - Craven
4. Rogue - Penetrating Strike ACF
5. Swashbuckler
6. Swashbuckler - Two Weapon Fighting
7. Fighter - B: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
8. Fighter - B: Far Shot
9. Swordsage - B: Weapon Focus: Shadow Hand weapons, Shadow Blade
10. Swordsage
11. Master Thrower - B: Quick Draw
12. Master Thrower - Rapid Shot
13. Master Thrower
14. Master Thrower - B: Snatch Arrows
15. Master Thrower - B: Improved Critical, Greater Two Weapon Fighting
16. Invisible Blade
17. Invisible Blade
18. Invisible Blade - Improved Precise Shot
19. Invisible Blade
20. Invisible Blade

Strongheart Halfling from Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting page 17 or 18
Craven feat from Champions of Ruin page 17
Swordsage from Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords page 15
Shadow Blade feat from Tome of Battle page 32
Penetrating Strike Alternate Class Feature from Dungeonscape page 13


Halfling Thrower 3
Strongheart Halfling
1. Rogue - Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Craven, Far Shot, 2x Flaws
2. Swashbuckler - B: Weapon Finesse
3. Rogue - Two Weapon Fighting
4. Rogue - Penetrating Strike ACF(DS)
5. Swashbuckler
6. Swordsage - B: Weapon Focus: Shadow Hand weapons, Shadowblade
7. Swashbuckler
8. Fighter - Targeteer ACF - B: Vital Aim
9. Fighter - Targeteer ACF - B: Rapid Shot, Improved Two Weapon Fighting
10. Swordsage (for Assassins Stance)
11. Master Thrower - B: Quick Draw
12. Master Thrower - Dead Eye (DragMag 304)
13. Master Thrower
14. Master Thrower - B: Snatch Arrows
15. Master Thrower - B: Improved Critical, Greater Two Weapon Fighting
16. Invisible Blade
17. Invisible Blade
18. Invisible Blade - Improved Precise Shot
19. Invisible Blade
20. Invisible Blade

Targeteer ACF and Vital Aim from Dragon Magazine #310 page 39
Dead Eye feat from Dragon Magazine #304 page 84


For items look into a Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis (ToM), Ring of Blinking, Rogues Vest (MIC), and Gloves of Endless Javelins (MIC) changed to Gloves of Endless Daggers (+1 Force Daggers instead of +1 Force Javelins) if your DM is open to it.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I second Swordsage dip. It also lets you pick up Shadow Blade for Dex to damage.

[grarrrg]

So I'm playing around at building a knife throwing rogue build, this is what I have so far.


Mandatory link to Iaijutsu Katana Chucker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134276&highlight=katana+thrower).
Read thread.
Steal ideas.
Profit.

Note: Katanas are not necessary, but they are encouraged.

[Godskook]

An alternative build, I'll suggest: [/Yoda]

Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Daggerspell Mage X/Unseen Seer Y

Personally, I'd go Daggerspell 10 for the free quicken dex/day.

Now, look at the spells avaialable:
Sniper's Shot - Sneak attack at any range - 1 round
Hunter's Eye - 1d6 SA / 3 CL - 1 round - Normally a ranger spell, picked up via USSeer's advanced learning
Dancing Blade - Free action melee attack - round/level
Cloud of Knives - Free action ranged attack - round/level
Steel Dance - *2* Free action melee attacks - round/level
Greater Luminous Armor - +8 AC, -4 to melee attacks against you - hours/level
Wraithstrike - melee attacks are touch attacks - 1 round

Requires good for some of the tricks, though.

At level 17, you can start persisting a good chunk of these spells upon yourself without shenanigans, but talk to your DM about which he'll allow without you being overpowered.

[Aust Nailo]

^ I like Daggerspell mage but I already have an Arcane Rogue build, and for this one I wasn't looking for any spellcasting. Except for wands and scrolls of course.