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Draig
2011-01-04, 03:11 PM
When i logged into my favorite Playground i realized something. There are an astronomically high number of posts either titled "Dming is hard" or "Dm needs help" So it brings me to post this. Out of all the Player knowledge we have on this forum why has no one ever asked for a DM'ing for Dummies Guide?

What i want is a few things. First off If you are a DM, How long have you Dm'ed, what is the hardest part of Dm'ing for you, and what is the Easiest Part of Dm'ing? Also Share a "My first time Dm'ing Story" because while most people may think they had a crappy first DM run im pretty sure others can top it.

If you have never Dm'ed only played then put down what you liked best about your DM or what you hated the most.

If your both do both.

And finally After you've done that here is the million dollar question. In your opinion, What does it take to be an amazing DM?

Crosswinds
2011-01-04, 03:16 PM
A decent guide right on these very forums can be found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76474).

Kaww
2011-01-04, 03:18 PM
There is a thread, a good one, giving advice to new DMs. It is a sticky (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76474) one...

EDIT: Swordsage, never saw him coming...

Draig
2011-01-04, 03:27 PM
no no no im talking about an up to dat eone first off it is 2011 that makes the "essay" 5 years old, which is exactly what it is. Im talking about everyone citing their info and their stories right here right now and helping out new dm's or just giving their own opinion. Because while i do appreciate the fact that a player decided to go the distance with that guide, i disagree with a few of his methods, and i know if i do that there are others that may feel the same way. Nothing in the history of the world has ever been entirely 100% unanimous when brought to over 1000 ppl.

Oracle_Hunter
2011-01-04, 03:35 PM
There is no Science of DMing. It is an Art.

You can learn DMing techniques, but their application depends a lot on the individual DM. While I agree the second best way to learn how to DM is to see how others do it (the best, obviously, is to DM), I'm not certain anything approaching a "DMing for Dummies" could really be written.

The guides we have so far seem to be adequate introductory materials. For anything else you really need to have a concrete concern and an actual person before good advice can be given.

For what it's worth, I started DMing in 1994 and have been doing it continuously ever since. Personally, I don't put much weight on the length of someone's DMing career; new DMs may be inexperienced and unsure but old DMs can be filled with bad habits and unwilling to improve their Craft. I think I'm a pretty good DM: I listen to my Players, I plan stories with them in mind, and I do my best to make sure they all have a good time. But I know I can be better - and so I learn from the games I play and refine each new game I run.

Psyren
2011-01-04, 03:38 PM
no no no im talking about an up to dat eone first off it is 2011 that makes the "essay" 5 years old, which is exactly what it is.

What does the guide being old have to do with anything? :smallconfused:

From what I've seen, a lot of people miss it because it's stickied, judging by the other stickied threads. (I've lost count of how many people ask things like "what's a gish?" and "what does RAW mean?") Stickies don't get read, it's as true on this forum as anywhere else.

Grogmir
2011-01-04, 03:46 PM
why has no one ever asked for a DM'ing for Dummies Guide?

http://www.dummies.com/store/product/Dungeon-Master-4th-Edition-For-Dummies.productCd-0470292911.html

Draig
2011-01-04, 03:47 PM
From what I've seen, a lot of people miss it because it's stickied, judging by the other stickied threads. (I've lost count of how many people ask things like "what's a gish?" and "what does RAW mean?") Stickies don't get read, it's as true on this forum as anywhere else.

another reason a non stickied version should n could be made. And as for what was commented earlier it is correct that Dm'ing is not science it is art. SO why should i sift through a 16 pg post and 10 different categories on "When this happens, Do this" or "When You encounter T go directly to options A, B, or C"

And What is a new DM supposed to do when he asks about certain things and u have a random member go "Read this link. Have a good day" I asked what you believed made a good DM not "What did someone write that u are willing to 100% refer to whenever ur {Scrubbed}"

I keep my players on their toes as a Dm because each week i come on here and i take my DMing a different Path. I only can do that because ive had other DM's speak up and speak out on GITP. One week i will be a generous, kind DM and the Next i can be bloodthirsty. My basic idealism to it is this.

DM's World + Dm's plotline(Dm's "empty npcs")/Dm's Deities - Dm's word is law(Dm's "In depth NPCS") X Treasure = DM is god.


And Seeing as the DND world has many many many many many many many *deep breath* many many many many Deities it is not absurd that a PC encounters The good, The bad, and the {Scrubbed}.

Draig
2011-01-04, 03:48 PM
http://www.dummies.com/store/product/Dungeon-Master-4th-Edition-For-Dummies.productCd-0470292911.html

Problem #1 this is for if ppl cant pay or dont want to
Problem #2 i am under the complete belief that 4e killed Gary Gigax and as such will not touch it. It burns the skin and makes my eyes water.

SillySymphonies
2011-01-04, 04:02 PM
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19905354/Lessons_from_DMing_with_my_GF

EDIT: seems the OP is not interested in links to guides.
Like others said it's more of an art than a science. Most important thing to remember (IMO) is that "There is no room for pride in DMing. The game is about the players, not the campaign world."

Psyren
2011-01-04, 04:05 PM
Problem #2 i am under the complete belief that 4e killed Gary Gigax and as such will not touch it. It burns the skin and makes my eyes water.

Sounds like the books in your local store are coated with cayenne pepper :smallwink:

Temet Nosce
2011-01-04, 04:22 PM
How long have you Dm'ed, what is the hardest part of Dm'ing for you, and what is the Easiest Part of Dm'ing? Also Share a "My first time Dm'ing Story" because while most people may think they had a crappy first DM run im pretty sure others can top it.

Eight years roughly at a guess, either controlling myself so the PCs aren't railroaded or my own tendency to think my games suck, dealing with the PCs doing something unexpected (you get used to it).

The first time I DMed? The only thing I really recall about it is we wound up using mounted combat, something that hadn't come up when I PCed (and which ironically it was the NPCs using), resulting in me pretty much coming up with rules on the spot, and I assumed I'd done horribly till my players said they loved it afterward. I think what pleased them was I let them chop the legs off the enemies horses with called attacks...


If you have never Dm'ed only played then put down what you liked best about your DM or what you hated the most.

If your both do both.

And finally After you've done that here is the million dollar question. In your opinion, What does it take to be an amazing DM?

Which DM? I suppose the single feature in a DM I like best is a willingness to roll with the players (hence my attempts to restrain my own tendency to railroad). The worst... I can't settle on one thing. Slow response times, inability to adapt, use of any form of plot armor, deliberate restraint of the PCs, railroading in any way, lack of effort.

Adaptability, cooperativeness, rapid response times, creativity, broad vision, enforcement of verisimilitude, and a willingness to let the PCs die by their own actions (as opposed to killing them in a situation not of their making).

Also, these questions don't seem much related to a DMing for dummies guide, you might consider altering the topic.

Hawkfrost000
2011-01-04, 05:11 PM
in my fairly limited experience to be a good DM is to rule with an iron hand.

there is a big distinction between iron fist and iron hand, the first is to have power and use it a lot but the second is to have power and also have the judgment to only use it when you have too.

if there is someone in your group that isn't serous, kick them out. :smallannoyed:

do what you have to do to ensure that the game is enjoyable for your players and also enjoyable for yourself.:smallbiggrin:

Keinnicht
2011-01-04, 06:04 PM
{Scrubbed}

TroubleBrewing
2011-01-04, 06:20 PM
{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

Excellent. :smallamused:

Jarawara
2011-01-04, 06:36 PM
Inane rant culminating in: "What did someone write that u are willing to 100% refer to whenever ur {Scrub the post, scrub the quote}

Seriously, dude?


How long have you Dm'ed?

Long enough not to insult people when they refer you to a previous project that they all put blood sweat and tears into compiling it.

*~*

Ok, my rant is over. Now I'll see if I can contribute to the thread.


Personally, I don't put much weight on the length of someone's DMing career; new DMs may be inexperienced and unsure but old DMs can be filled with bad habits and unwilling to improve their Craft.

That I can personally attest to! I've been DMing since 1980-ish, and for the most part I am stuck in the mud in my habits. I updated to 3rd edition way later than most, didn't get serious about *learning* 3.0 until 3.5 had already been out a out for a year, and now that 4th edition is out I am converting my players back to 1st edition, because that's what I know how to play and DM.

And I contend that this is actually a good thing! I am more comfortable in playing in the 1st edition style, which makes me better at DMing that. Why be a half-rate DM of the current game, when I can be an amazing DM of the previous editions?

Which brings me to...



After you've done that here is the million dollar question. In your opinion, What does it take to be an amazing DM?

Two things:

1) Run the type of game you are comfortable with and enthusiastic about.
2) Run the type of game your players want to play.

The problem here is obvious - how do you mix those two, often contradictory, ingredients together?

Simple: Make sure your players want to play the type of game you want to DM. And do that first, before the game is going to be played. Find out what they want, describe what you want, and if your gamestyle preferences don't match... DON'T RUN THAT GAME!

And for the love of all that is holy, don't totally re-write all of your previous work, that you spent hours, weeks, and years preparing, all to match what one of your untested players says he prefers. (Fortunately, I learned that lesson early on, before it cost me too greatly.)

I have had probably the highest number of players tell me they would never play in my game, tell me I am stubborn and unwilling to compromise (one said it was 'my way or the highway'), and even a few "felt sorry for my players". But the one universal similarity of all these players was that they were not *my* players. They never actually played in my game. I DM for my players, not for others asking about my game.

I tell one about my current game Tiatia. I say that the players start and homegrown dirtfarmers with no wealth and no equipment. No spellcasters. Only simple classes. No metal weaponry but of what you find (and little to find, until later). The guy says "Could I have a greatsword my grandfather gave me?" No. No metal weapons, remember. He says "Could I be from outside the country, and come to Tiatia at the start of the campaign?" No. Homegrown dirtfarmers, remember. He says "Could I be a latent talent for spellcasting, taught by an old hermit who hides his true nature as a mage from the locals?" No. No spellcasters, remember.

He says: "Well, you're never going to find anyone wanting to play that. People want to play heroes, not dirtfarmers with sticks."

He was close, but incorrect. What he should have said was "You're *only rarely* going to find players wanting to play that." When I told Natasha about Tiatia, she didn't have a laundry list of required changes or protests about the weak PC's. She simply said: "Great roleplaying opportunities, when do we start?"

And of those rare players who do like the descriptions of my games, who do actually consent to playing it "my way or the highway"? Thirty years later, they all still play with me. And once you have such a committed player, once you have the equivalent of RPG gold... that's when you compromise. If Natachua wants Psionics (something I've avoided with a 39 1/2 foot pole for decades)... well, Nat wants it, so Nat gets it.

Do not cater to any old player who comes along. Focus on what *you* want out of *your* game. But once you have players who like your game for what it is... then you can and should and must cater to their preferences. Hold on to those players like the gold they are - because in doing so, you get to continue to DM the game you want to run.

That's how you become an amazing DM. And, coincidentally, that's how your players become amazing players. You just have to match up the right players to the right game, and the amazing parts of us all rise to the surface.

*~*

An example of the above:

I played in this one game which started ok but then quickly began to fall apart. It was dull. The roleplay was... simplistic at best, immature being the better descriptor. The storyline was forced. The monsters were... just random statblocks put forth to die.

It was literally the definition of a bad game. The DM railroaded us down his storyline, throwing monsters that were there just to chop down and collect the loot. They were at least 'rare', but they weren't played that way - instead they were just different statblocks each time, all mowed down the same. The power levels were rediculous. We'd cut through some low level minions like they were butter and go up another level every game. I was quickly falling behind with the task of updating my character sheet every week. And the NPCs were all just various women who were hitting on the PC's, and not just veiled hints, but full-on description of the PC's 'conquest' of these women. It was more of a online sex-chat than it was an RPG.

Then, after the game, the DM posted the question is his forum to his players "What would you like to see in our game?"

Player A: "I would like to amass amazing and cosmic powers!"

Player B: "I want to encounter a wide array of amazing creatures and kill them. Especially Drow. I want to kill some Drow."

Player C: "I want to have sex with beautiful women from all around the world."

Next gamesession, they encountered Drow, and killed them. Except for the women, who they then had sex with. And went up another level.

He was a *GREAT* DM. He provided exactly the game his players wanted, and clearly enjoyed every minute of it, bragging about how great the session went and writing up an extensive gamelog about it afterwards, complete with artwork.

I left the group. But that doesn't change the fact that he's a great DM for his group of players.


Find the players who fit your gamestyle, then keep them through thick and thin. This allows you to run the game *you* want to run, while also catering to what your players want to play.

BG
2011-01-04, 06:38 PM
Pretty much +1 to anything that Oracle Hunter said.

My actual job is being a teacher, and I treat DMing the same way that I treat creating lesson plans: there is no such thing as perfection, but there's always room for improvement. There is no formula of X + Y = Awesome game/Good lesson, because it's all based on dealing with people. When you deal with people, there is no universal rule, because everyone is different, more importantly, every group is different. I've run gaming sessions that some players loved and other despised.

Basically, the key to DMing is to just start doing it. Figure out what works for you and your group and what doesn't work for you and your group. Be upfront with your players that you're just trying things out, and see which styles gel best with the players. Don't be afraid to mess up, because believe me, you'll mess up. If everyone along for the ride is aware of that, they'll usually be a lot more understanding.

Try some one-shot games that are different styles. Try running a pregen campaign out of the box. Try doing some basic homebrew. Work in some house rules.

Now, what DMing guides online CAN help you with is to identify common pitfalls, or to introduce ideas you hadn't thought of. The key thing in all of it is to know your players, and when that happens, you can much more easily spot advice that will help your specific group.

valadil
2011-01-04, 07:07 PM
What i want is a few things. First off If you are a DM, How long have you Dm'ed, what is the hardest part of Dm'ing for you, and what is the Easiest Part of Dm'ing? Also Share a "My first time Dm'ing Story" because while most people may think they had a crappy first DM run im pretty sure others can top it.

And finally After you've done that here is the million dollar question. In your opinion, What does it take to be an amazing DM?

Started in '03. Guess that makes it 8 years. Now I feel old.

Hardest is tricky, so I'll divide it up.

The most tedious part is managing all the out of game stuff. I have no motivation to call people and arrange dates when we have to reschedule. Getting that done saps my will to do anything else.

The most challenging part is playing the NPCs. I'm a method actor. I like to get in the head of any character I play. This takes hours. I can't slip characters on and off like a hat. It means I don't have time to get into character when I play NPCs. This really hurts my ability to RP them. Even if they have a deep personality, the players rarely get to see it.

The easiest part for me is the writing. That's really why I do it. I couldn't care less about be a rules referee. But taking player actions and turning that into plot and then tying those plots together? That parts amazing and it comes pretty naturally to me. Instead of writers block I get writers traffic jam. I'll have twelve different plots that all want to come out at once. Nothing gets written because the plots get in each others way and I can't pick just one to focus on.

Here's my first time GM story (http://gm.sagotsky.com/?p=75). Since you wanted something embarrassing though, I'm sorry to say I had an NPC rape a PC. That was a mistake. I didn't even have a good reason for it, except that I'd watched Pulp Fiction the night before and wanted to copy one of the scenes. The player still resents me for it.

Here's what it takes to be an amazing DM IMO.

Self awareness. You need to know what kind of game you're running. You should know its strengths and weaknesses. If you can't tell where your players got bored, you won't be able to improve it.

Communication. Your players should know what game you're running. Mismatched expectations will ruin any game. My players know I'm doing a plotty game of intrigue. If they show up expecting a dungeon crawl, they'll be disappointed.

Collaboration. This is the big one. You should be working together to create a story. A little competition is fine, but if you get so competitive that you have to smack down Billy's paladin at all costs, your game will suffer. It's not a competition.

Akal Saris
2011-01-04, 07:39 PM
Pacing is something that I consider a key ability for DMs to learn. Some DMs rush through non-combat stuff to get to the next encounter, while others seem to have no control over the game and let it meander on endlessly through a sea of OOC jokes and movie references. More than anything, I appreciate a DM who can keep players motivated and keep the plot (and combat!) moving forward at a brisk pace without feeling rushed. It's something that I try hard to do well at, but it's very difficult sometimes.

It's also important to remember that you aren't the only factor in making a good or bad game. Three days ago I had one player earnestly tell me that the current campaign I'm running is the best he's ever been in, which was a surprise, since earlier in the evening he had complained about the lack of recent achievements and the feeling that every time the PCs accomplish something, they have a setback as well. But I think what made it fun for the PC in the end was that he was able to play a character that he absolutely loves, and he and the other players all meshed together well both in RP and in combat. Neither of which I have much control over :smalltongue:

Draig
2011-01-04, 11:50 PM
Seriously, dude?



Long enough not to insult people when they refer you to a previous project that they all put blood sweat and tears into compiling it.

*~*




{Scrub the post, scrub the quote}


Excellent. :smallamused:

Im sorry about the insulting but it sickens me when i asked for numerous specific things on here and all i get was a How to guide that answered nothing of my questions {Scrubbed} I appologize if my comment offended people but at least my bash was a constructive add on as opposed to a smart remark or a link post. I also think it is amazing that a mod can find the F letter offensive n scrub it while ignoring the fact that off topic posts can linger like a bad fungus.

there thats MY rant.

ANother question i forgot to add to the list, Do u prefer being a DM or a PC and why?

Draig
2011-01-04, 11:58 PM
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19905354/Lessons_from_DMing_with_my_GF

EDIT: seems the OP is not interested in links to guides.
Like others said it's more of an art than a science. Most important thing to remember (IMO) is that "There is no room for pride in DMing. The game is about the players, not the campaign world."

It is not that i don't like links, it's that if i wanted a link to everything i'm asking it would defy the entire purpose of this post.

valadil
2011-01-05, 12:06 AM
It is not that i don't like links, it's that if i wanted a link to everything i'm asking it would defy the entire purpose of this post.

Could you elaborate? I'm not sure what topics you want us to write about that aren't covered in the link. "So You Wanna Be A DM?: A Potentially Helpful Guide (Reposted and Updated)" seems very similar to this post as you described it and I'm not really sure why I should have to post my opinions in both places, when posting in one and linking in the other would suffice.

What do you want to know that isn't covered in the other post?

Draig
2011-01-05, 12:11 AM
What i want is a few things. First off If you are a DM, How long have you Dm'ed, what is the hardest part of Dm'ing for you, and what is the Easiest Part of Dm'ing? Also Share a "My first time Dm'ing Story" because while most people may think they had a crappy first DM run im pretty sure others can top it.

If you have never Dm'ed only played then put down what you liked best about your DM or what you hated the most.

If your both do both.

And finally After you've done that here is the million dollar question. In your opinion, What does it take to be an amazing DM?




ANother question i forgot to add to the list, Do u prefer being a DM or a PC and why?


Those would be a basic list of things. I am sorry if u don't want to post in both, no one is forcing you to post in here. This is so the posts are recent if you posted on another one post that here or just link it. I was more actually stating i don't need every person posting a link saying "Here go there, read through about 19 other memoiristic posts and THEN you will see what i am saying"

Tyndmyr
2011-01-05, 12:37 AM
There is no Science of DMing. It is an Art.

You can learn DMing techniques, but their application depends a lot on the individual DM. While I agree the second best way to learn how to DM is to see how others do it (the best, obviously, is to DM), I'm not certain anything approaching a "DMing for Dummies" could really be written.

The guides we have so far seem to be adequate introductory materials. For anything else you really need to have a concrete concern and an actual person before good advice can be given.


I agree.

I would like to also add that the most important part of DMing is knowing your players. Talk to them, ask them what they like. Keep track of how they react to different things.

So many people seem to get hung up on some sort of DM-player power struggle, but a healthy game of roleplaying is cooperative. You should all be doing what you enjoy.

ebenrazer
2011-01-05, 05:50 AM
Started in '03. Guess that makes it 8 years. Now I feel old.
Quoted valadil in post 18

First post, be gentle on me.

My friends and I started in 4th grade 1978 and still game together. We all take turns DM'ing it all depends on who has something ready or what module we need to finish.

The one rule we have found to be the best is that DM's word is law. When a call needs to be made about how a rule works, if this spell can do that or whatever, the parties involved make their case quickly, the DM makes the call and we all move on, whether we agree or not, the game moves on. After the game is over we can argue, cuss, point out other sources, whatever, but the call stands. We are all OK with admitting "yes, I made a mistake, next time we will do it the correct way."

I gamed in another group where the DM allowed a player to argue points alot and for along time. It really took alot of the fun out of gaming with them.

Sorry for so long a post. Paul

DabblerWizard
2011-01-05, 09:42 AM
Honing my DM skills has been on my mind recently since I'm considering taking up that task again.

Concerning player creativity, I find that there's a balancing act necessary: (1) tailoring the game to the players' interests is important, but so is (2) denying certain aspects of creativity that might negatively impact the campaign, other people's fun, etc.

Sometimes that amazing plot you devised just isn't grabbing anyone's attention, and instead, they grab a hold on to some minute detail you didn't flush out and decide to walk into the unknown. My players ultimately decide which ideas soar, which ideas crumble, and which ideas stagnate. As much as I'd like to follow my own interests (magic EVERYWHERE), I need to curtail my desires and make it a game for them, not for me. However, I want to enjoy the game too. I won't be able to be enthusiastic about a game that doesn't draw me in, in some way.

Of course, there's enthusiasm to be found just watching my players' reactions when I throw them a plot twist, or allow them a bit of calm after a hectic bit of plot, or land them in a scenario where they face enemies too powerful for them.

I've learned the power of silence and pause. You can draw players in by speaking about fantastic things, but you can also draw them in by going completely silent right before they find out what the BBEG is about to do to them (for instance). Allow that silence to extend for a bit. It creates good nervous tension. It'll get their hearts racing a bit. If you can make the players themselves a little bit anxious, closer to the way their characters are feeling, then the gaming experience has just become more real to them.

Do a bit of overlap between player sensibility and character motivation.You know that one of your players studied sociology and has strong feelings about classist oppression? Draw that player in, by having their character experience the same exact thing. Be careful with this point though. Players have every right to escape from real life hardship when they take on the role of these fantasy heroes. Try to avoid scenarios that are too close to the players' experiences. For instance, I never present npcs experiencing sexual abuse.

My ultimate point is that the game belongs to your players. Make it for them!