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Eiko
2011-01-04, 05:12 PM
So, having built my gestalt character and managed to rather handily get charisma to my to hit and damage rolls, as well as to the weakest of my saves, I was wondering if there was a way to extend this to ac.

Then it means my character is pretty much single ability dependant which would be nice.

Volos
2011-01-04, 05:17 PM
Be a Nymph. They get Cha to everything. Then be a paladin and get Cha to most everything twice.

Give us an idea of what you are working with so we can better direct/help you?

Ryuk01
2011-01-04, 05:19 PM
Quote from Moonstone Spider on the RPGnet Forums:
"Wilders (Expanded Psion Handbook) add charisma to their Touch AC at level 2.

Arcane Duelist PRC adds Cha to AC at level 2 (On Wizard's Website)

The Astral Stalker, Gloura, Nymph, Dry Lich, Grimweird, Unholy Scion, and any creature with the incorporeal subtype add it as a racial ability. (These are from all over the place but mostly monster manuals)

Dread Pirate PRC can do it once a day but not until level 9, on the plus side he gives it to his crew too. (Complete Adventurer)

Knight of the Sacred Seal adds Cha to AC but waits 5 rounds before he may do it again (Tome of Magic)

Champions of Valor has a paladin substitution level that gives Cha to AC instead of to saves.

Risen Martyr level 2 gets cha to AC (Book of Exalted Deeds)

The Ascetic Mage feat allows a cross-class sorcerer/monk to add Cha to AC instead of Wis (Complete Adventurer)

Divine Shield gets you cha to AC in exchange for a turning attempt, a great deal for a Paladin but there are better divine feats. (Complete Divine)"

Doctor Acula
2011-01-04, 05:20 PM
Assuming you mean 3.5 This Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732) should be helpful

Mordokai
2011-01-04, 05:22 PM
Sirine's Grace from SC allows you to add your CHA as deflection modifier to AC for level/round. It also gives you a +4 to CHA when casted.

darbythegambler
2011-01-04, 05:43 PM
Battle Dancer from Dragon Compendium does this, though requiring you to be chaotic and unarmored

Jack_Simth
2011-01-04, 05:58 PM
Hmm... perhaps a better question would be 'How many times can you get Charisma to X in Y levels?'

AKA, in a 20 level build (non-gestalt, for now - it's assumed that the other side will be a caster of some not-yet-defined sort), how many times can you continuously get Charisma to the following:

AC:
Saves:
Attack:
Damage:
Hit Points:
Overall (Total of the above for a given build):

E.g., the Gloura (Underdark, ECL 9) gets Charisma to Saves and AC. A level of Monk qualifies the Gloura for Ascetic Mage, which adds Charisma to AC again. Two levels of any of the Paladin variants grant Charisma to saves again. So for 12 levels, we have Charisma to AC twice, and Charisma to saves twice. Dry Lich (Sandstorm) is LA+5, and grants Charisma to HP (at the cost of Con, though). Three levels of Hexblade grant Charisma to saves a third time (but only vs. Spells... meh), as well as Mettle (get a Ring for Evasion).

So this 20-level build (Gloura-9/Monk-1/Variant Paladin-2/Dry Lich-5/Hexlbade-3) has a listing that looks like:
AC: 2
Saves: 3
Attack: 0 (Smite can do it, but only once per day, and so doesn't count)
Damage: 0
Hit Points: 1
Overall: 6


Assuming you mean 3.5 This Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732) should be helpful
Make sure to check the original sources, however - it's got some mistakes (Gloura, for instance, is a race, not a template).

Psyren
2011-01-04, 06:07 PM
Quote from Moonstone Spider on the RPGnet Forums:
"Wilders (Expanded Psion Handbook) add charisma to their Touch AC at level 2.

Elude Touch is weird actually. You get Cha to touch AC, but only to a maximum of your actual AC. Meaning you have to wear lots and lots of armor to get the maximum benefit. Granted, you can easily pull this off with psionics, but it's difficult to justify getting better at dodging things the more armor you throw on.

Pathfinder made it more sensible... by nerfing it. :smallsigh:

Akal Saris
2011-01-04, 07:54 PM
Hmm... perhaps a better question would be 'How many times can you get Charisma to X in Y levels?'

AKA, in a 20 level build (non-gestalt, for now - it's assumed that the other side will be a caster of some not-yet-defined sort), how many times can you continuously get Charisma to the following:

AC:
Saves:
Attack:
Damage:
Hit Points:
Overall (Total of the above for a given build):

E.g., the Gloura (Underdark, ECL 9) gets Charisma to Saves and AC. A level of Monk qualifies the Gloura for Ascetic Mage, which adds Charisma to AC again. Two levels of any of the Paladin variants grant Charisma to saves again. So for 12 levels, we have Charisma to AC twice, and Charisma to saves twice. Dry Lich (Sandstorm) is LA+5, and grants Charisma to HP (at the cost of Con, though). Three levels of Hexblade grant Charisma to saves a third time (but only vs. Spells... meh), as well as Mettle (get a Ring for Evasion).

So this 20-level build (Gloura-9/Monk-1/Variant Paladin-2/Dry Lich-5/Hexlbade-3) has a listing that looks like:
AC: 2
Saves: 3
Attack: 0 (Smite can do it, but only once per day, and so doesn't count)
Damage: 0
Hit Points: 1
Overall: 6


Make sure to check the original sources, however - it's got some mistakes (Gloura, for instance, is a race, not a template).

As a fey, the Gloura can take the Charming the Arrow feat and get Cha to ranged attacks, as well as the beauty's bounty feat for cha to HP at 1st level.

You could also take the unseelie fey template from Dragon Magazine (arguably, since +0 LA is probably a typo), and apply your Cha as a penalty to adjacent opponents' saves.

gbprime
2011-01-04, 08:15 PM
Mystic Wanderer from Magic of Faerun gets CHA to AC if you're unarmored at 1st level. Need 2nd level divine spells, Iron Will, and a couple of skills to qualify.

It's a decent synergy for a non-wild-shaping druid if you have enough stats. Not so good for a melee type though.

Goonthegoof
2011-01-04, 08:21 PM
Most people don't realise you can take ascetic mage without any levels in monk or sorcerer, just taking magical training, precocious apprentice, unarmed strike and get a monk's belt. You needa blow three feats, but it's sometimes worth it if you can't afford to lose the levels.

Hawkfrost000
2011-01-04, 08:23 PM
if there is a way to make charisma your AC bonus then it is cheating.

none of the mental statistics should ever work for AC

DM

gbprime
2011-01-04, 08:31 PM
if there is a way to make charisma your AC bonus then it is cheating.

none of the mental statistics should ever work for AC

Except that you can and they do. And it's both RAW and RAI. Sorry. :smallamused:

olentu
2011-01-04, 08:40 PM
if there is a way to make charisma your AC bonus then it is cheating.

none of the mental statistics should ever work for AC

DM

I would not call the monk class cheating.

Psyren
2011-01-04, 08:41 PM
if there is a way to make charisma your AC bonus then it is cheating.

none of the mental statistics should ever work for AC


Do you hate Monks that much? :smallconfused:

CarpeGuitarrem
2011-01-04, 08:42 PM
Charisma for AC: "You can't hit me because I am AWESOME!"

or the nymph, who gets a distraction bonus to AC.... :smallredface:

gbprime
2011-01-04, 08:52 PM
or the nymph, who gets a distraction bonus to AC.... :smallredface:

I'm sorry... what? :smallamused:

Ryu_Bonkosi
2011-01-04, 09:57 PM
The Mystic Wanderer from Magic of Faerun adds Cha to AC at first level if you are unarmored. It also has full casting progression (either Arcane or Divine) so bonus there.

RndmNumGen
2011-01-04, 09:57 PM
if there is a way to make charisma your AC bonus then it is cheating.

none of the mental statistics should ever work for AC

DM

Umm... Monk? It's in the PHB, so you can't get any closer to the source than that. Duelist in the DMG has INT to AC as well, so it's not like mental stats to AC are completely foreign.

EDIT: Gah, ninja'd. Twice!