The Priest...a stab at the cloth-wearing priest archtype(WIP)

[Maho-Tsukai]

This whole class is a BIG WIP and I know that it's most likely horridly broken. However, that's why I am posting it up, to get advice on how to balance it but keep it at tier 1. So, please, realize this is in no way at all the final version of the class and I am posting this as an idea in need of suggestions rather then a finished product.


The Priest

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g212/Vincent009/Mage.jpg

While Clerics act as the martial enforcers and stalwart scions of faiths in the world, many faiths also employ clergy with a less militant bent who spread the faith and shepherds their flocks from the cathedral halls and temple catacombs rather then the field of battle. Priests, as they are sometimes referred to, are the scholarly, charismatic, cloth-wearing answer to the martial cleric.

Often times the leaders of established faiths and cults, priests trade the martial lifestyle of a cleric for a life of study, prayer, meditation and leadership within churches and cults. While the clerics of a church are likely to be the ones to travel the world and spread their faith it is the priests who run the churches and send clerics on those very quests.

While this leads to priests being far less skilled in martial pursuits their lifestyle allows them to greater study of their faith and divine magic which allows them to become highly potent spellcasters.

Abilities: Out of all a character's abilities, none matters more to a priest then charisma. A priest is a leader of men who must have the ability to give a rousing sermon or inspire the solders of his church to arms. In addition, a Priest's divine spellcasting, his greatest power, is based on his charisma score as is his power to turn or rebuke undead.

In addition to a good charisma score, a priest also usually has a high intelligence since much of their spare time is devoted to scholarly pursuits. Many priests also have some degree of wisdom so they can act as proper councilors to members of their flock who may be in need of advice. Also, like any character, a priest will want a good constitution score to grant them more HP and since a priest is only allowed to wear robes they can benefit from the extra AC a good dexterity score provides.

Role: While a Cleric often uses his divine spells to make him a powerful front line combatant who smites enemies of the faith with both spell and mace, a Priest is far less martial. Thus, while a priest shares the same spell list as a cleric he makes use of his buff spells and heals to support his allies rather then empower himself. A true support character, the priest uses his divine spellcasting to make his allies stronger and smite enemies of the faith from afar.

In addition to supporting his allies with divine magic, a priest also can act as a leader off the field of battle. With a naturally high charisma score and some social skills as class skills a priest can act as the "party face," dealing with the social interactions less charismatic members of the party may not be able to tackle on their own. Also, while not as intelligent as a wizard, a priest's vast knowledge can often times come in handy when the party needs information on a topic of importance to their quests.

Organization: Priests act as the leadership of countless churches and faiths and thus are almost always members of some formal faith and many times hold leadership positions in that church. Most priests are usually the head of a single church while those with exceptional talent and skill find themselves in higher positions and even may be the worldwide head of a church. While there are some wandering priests, even they usually have ties to some formal religious organization.

Alignment: Just as deities can be of any alignment so to can their priests. However, like a cleric a priest is always of an alignment that is, at the least one step away from his deity if he has one. Good priests seek to help others in the name of their deity while evil aligned priests spread suffering and wickedness to appease their dark patrons. Lawful priests seek to lead disciplined lives and teach others to do the same while chaotic priests advocate the freedom that their patron favors.

Races: Just as every race has some form of religion, so to dose every race have some form of priests. While the iconic priest is a scholarly holy-man who runs a cathedral and dawns the fine vestments of formal faith even uncivilized races have tribal shamans who prefer the ancient story to the stone hammer. In summery, any race which has a religion or system of spiritual beliefs is capable of and will produce priests.

Religion: Religion is fundamental to a priest and is the basis of his entire existence. Priests devote their lives to serving a deity and thus a priests' faith is not only the foundation of his life but the purpose for all of his actions. A priest without a faith is like a mortal without a soul...a priest has no reason to live without a deity for him to serve and a religion for him to follow.

However, while this is almost always the exception to the rule, there are a few priests who devote themselves to an ideal rather then a cause. Such priests are almost always adventurers, preferring a life on the road to working for an organized religion.

Other Classes: Priests generally work well with members of any classes. Warriors, spellcasters, skillful scoundrels and all forms of adventurers have unique abilities that all contribute to a successful adventuring party and Priests know that well. So while he may not have all that much in common with a brutish fighter or eccentric wizard he knows full well that they, as well as any other need guidance from above and thus no matter what a ally's class a priest is willing to work with, or in the case of evil priests manipulate and control, members of any class that adds to the overall success of the priest's mission and the mission of his divine patron.

Adaptation: The Priest is, more or less, a less martial cleric and thus can be added to any setting in which clerics and churches exist. In fact, in some settings replacing the cleric class with the priest class may in fact be a viable option seeing as a priest can easily fill the intended roll of the cleric of a team support character and divine spellcaster. In the end the class has general enough fluff to be put into any setting a DM wishes to use it in.

Class Features

Alignment: While a Priest can be of any alignment, if a Priest worships a deity his alignment must within one step of his deity's alignment, just the same as a cleric.

Hit Die: d4

Starting Gold: As Cleric

Class Skills: Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (All skills taken individually) (Int), Profession (Pastor/Church Leader) (Wis), Spellcraft(Int)

Skill Points at first level: (6+ Int Modifier) x4
Skill Points at each additional level: 6+ Int Modifier

Proficiencies: Priests are proficient with the club, dagger, heavy crossbow, light crossbow, and quarterstaff, but not with any type of armor or shield.

The Priest
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th| 9th

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Aura, Spontaneous Domain Casting, Turn/Rebuke Undead, Domains, Lore, Divine Magician|3|1

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3||4|2|-

3rd|
+1|
+1|
+1|
+3|Divine Magician|4|2|1|-

4th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Bonus Domain|5|3|2|-|-

5th|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+4|Divine Magician|5|3|2|1|-|-

6th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5||5|3|3|2|-|-|-

7th|
+3|
+2|
+2|
+5|Divine Magician|6|4|3|2|1|-|-|-

8th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+6|Bonus Domain|6|4|3|3|2|-|-|-|-|-

9th|
+4|
+3|
+3|
+6|Divine Magician|6|4|4|3|2|1|-|-|-|-

10th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+7||6|4|4|3|3|2|-|-|-|-

11th|
+5|
+3|
+3|
+7|Divine Magician|6|5|4|4|3|2|1|-|-|-

12th|
+6/+1|
+4|
+4|
+8|Zone of Consecration/Desecration|6|5|4|4|3|3|2|-|-|-

13th|
+6/+1|
+4|
+4|
+8|Divine Magician|6|5|5|4|4|3|2|1|-|-

14th|
+7/+2|
+4|
+4|
+9||6|5|5|4|4|3|3|2|-|-

15th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+9|Divine Magician|6|5|5|5|4|4|3|2|1|-

16th|
+8/+3|
+5|
+5|
+10|Hallowed/Unhallowed Ground|6|5|5|5|4|4|3|3|2|-

17th|
+8/+3|
+5|
+5|
+10|Divine Magician|6|5|5|5|5|4|4|3|2|1

18th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+11||6|5|5|5|5|4|4|3|3|2

19th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+11||6|5|5|5|5|5|4|4|3|3

20th|
+10/+5|
+6|
+6|
+12|Bonus Domain|6|5|5|5|5|5|4|4|4|4[/table]

Spellcasting: A Priest casts divine spells drawn from the Cleric spell list. Like a cleric, a priest dose not need to learn spells or keep them in a spellbook. He automatically has access to all spells on the cleric spell list of all spell levels which can cast and when he gains the ability to cast a new level of spells he automatically gains access to all the spells on the cleric spell list of that level. Unlike a Cleric, a priest dose not gain domain spell-slots. Rather, he casts his domain spells in a different manner described later.

Also, while a cleric uses wisdom as his casting stat a priest instead uses charisma. Thus, to cast a spell a Priest must have a charisma score of 10+ the spell's level. In addition, the DCs for a Priest's spells is equal to 10+ the spell's level + his Cha modifier. A priest receives bonus spells for a high charisma as a wizard dose for a high intelligence. A Priest prepares and re-gains his spells in the same manner as a cleric. However, unlike most divine casters who can freely cast in any kind of armor, a priest's brand of divine magic is such that his spells suffer from spell failure when he dawns any kind of armor in the exact same manner arcane spells do.

Unlike a cleric, who uses a holy symbol for many of their spells, a priest, in place of a holy symbol, uses a special staff as a holy symbol for all spells which would require one. These staffs are non-magical and have both the same stats and price as a standard, mundane quarterstaff. In addition, the staff is topped with a gem, skull or other kind of "cap" that has his deity's holy symbol imprinted upon it with glowing, divine energy. This is mearly cosmetic and has no in-game effects. As for the rest of the staff, there is no difference between it and a standard, mundane staff In addition, if a priest ever acquires a magic staff that he can use that staff can be used in place of this mundane staff so long as he somehow affixes the gem with his deity's holy symbol to the top of the staff.(No craft check is needed to do this since this is more a flavor-based ability.) A priest who worships no deity uses the same exact rules for this staff as one who dose, the only difference being a cosmetic one: the staff-gem of a godless priest has no holy symbol inscribed uppon it.

Aura: A Priest radiates an aura of his alignment in the exact same manner as a cleric of his character level dose.

Spontaneous Domain Casting: While a priest gains domains he dose not gain domain spell slots as normal. Rather, as appose to preparing his domain spells in spell slots like a cleric he instead can chose to "lose" a prepared spell to spontaneously cast a spell from any of his domains that has a level less then or equal to that of the lost spell. He can also spontaneously cast a domain spell under the effect of a metamagic feat but to do so the prepared spell he chose to lose to cast said domain spell must be of a level equal to or more then the level that domain spell would be if prepared with the metamagic feat the priest wishes to apply to it. This ability can be used to cast spells in this manner from any domain you have, including the bonus domains this class grants you as well as bonus domains you may receive from other methods.(Such as taking levels in a PrC that grants a bonus domain(s) such as the contemplative PrC or taking a PrC that grants a "prestige" domain like the Dracolyte.)

Turn/Rebuke Undead A Priest gains the ability to turn or rebuke undead as a cleric of the same class level as him, depending on his alignment. A good Priest turns undead while an evil one rebukes undead. A neutral priest chose whether or not he turns or rebukes undead at 1st level and once the choice is made he can never change it. This ability can be used a number of times per day equal to 1+ the Priest's Cha modifier. This ability is treated in the same manner as a Cleric's Turn/Rebuke power and thus any PrC class which advances a cleric's turn/rebuke undead ability also advances a priest's.

Domains: At 1st level a Priest chose two cleric domains his deity can provide him. If he has no deity he may chose domains which are in line with his cause or ideal.

Lore: A Priest, due to his long time spent in study has vast knowledge. This ability is identical to the bard's bardic knowledge class feature, using the priest’s class level in place of the bard level.

Bonus Domains: At level 4, 8 and 20 a Priest gains access to an additional domain. If he worships a deity it must be a domain which that deity grants. If your deity has less then 5 domains once you run out of domains your deity offers you may chose a domain that is thematically associated with your deity despite not being a domain normally available to his/her followers.

Divine Magician: At 1st level and every level at which a Priest obtains access a new spell level a priest may chose one spell from the wizard/sorc list of that level. The Priest adds that spell to his cleric spell list. The spell chosen cannot be appose to the priest's alignment.(So a good aligned priest could not chose any [evil] spell and vice-versa.)

Zone of Consecration/Desecration At level 12th the Priest is so powerful that he becomes a powerful source of positive(or negative) energy. At level 12 and every level after, the Priest radiates a zone of positive or negative energy that is centered on him. This zone is treated as if if it where under the effects of a consecrate or desecrate spell and has the same area of effect of the spell consecrate(or desecrate if this ability mimics that spell. Whether this zone acts as desecrate or consecrate is dependent on the priest's alignment.

A good aligned priest will always treat this zone as if it where under the effects of a consecrate spell while an evil aligned priest treats this zone as if it where under the effects of the spell desecrate. Neutral priests use their ability to turn/rebuke instead of their alignment to determine what spell this zone is treated as being under. A neutral priest who turns undead treats it as under the effects of a consecrate spell while a neutral priest who rebukes undead treats the zone as if it where effected by the desecrate spell. This zone is always present and it's effects are never ceased, even if the priest is sleeping or under the effects of a mind effecting spell, SLA, power, ability or status effect.

Hallowed/Unhallowed Ground: At 16th level and every level after the Priest gains the ability to suppress his Zone of Consecration/Desecration and instead emit an aura which instead acts as if it where under the effect of a Hallow or Unhallow spell(Including the area of effect.), depending on what that Priest's zone was. A priest who emitted a zone of consecration emits a zone which acts as a hallow spell while a priest who emitted a zone of desecration emits a zone which acts as unhallow. Whether or not the Priest emits his normal zone of consecration/desecration or his hallow/unhallow zone is chosen at the start of the day and the decision cannot be changed until the next day. In addition, the spell that is affixed to the priest's zone of hallow/unhallow is chosen at the beginning of the day and once the decision is made as to what spell to affix to a hallow/unhallow zone it cannot be changed until the next day.

[blackmage]

The spells per day should be nerfed to be more in line with the wizard. Because that's really what this is. It has the same HD, saves, weapon/armor proficiencies, etc. But instead of having a somewhat limited spell list and a spellbook, he has all cleric spells. Even with the exact same number of spells available, and all other crunch, that alone might make him better than a wizard.

If you want to differentiate his casting more from the Cleric, here's a thought: He doesn't get any Domain spell slots, but can spontaneously convert to spells from any of his three domains. Fewer spells available per day, but careful Domain selection can give him all his staple spells as spontaneous domain spells, so he can prepare conditional or narrow spells in his normal slots. Higher versatility, but less total firepower. If you go this route, you could have him start with only 1 or 2 domains, and then gain another domain every 4 or 5 levels.

[Maho-Tsukai]

I actually like the domain idea and saw fit to apply it. While I at first assumed giving the class so many domains would be overpowering I decided that it is not any worse then the wizard since while he dose get the whole cleric list + the domain lists that he has set spells per day and while he is TECHNICALLY more versatile then a wizard(sans lots and lots of scrolls) that he's roughly at the same power-level and when you put him next to say a druid he's still not the end-all, be all of teir one since the druid, like him, gets his whole list and the ability to be good at melee with one class feature, something this guy can't do all that great, even with DMM: Persist.(He's still going to be in robes and still going to have crappy weapons sans the war domain and even with DMM: persist a cleric will be better at melee them him and a druid...well....yeah.)

However, I am not sure on this so I want opinions.

[ocel]

This sounds like a stretch but this might help, forgot the url but it goes like this:

"Domain Casting
At level one, replace the cleric's ability to learn spells with this ability.

The cleric does not learn spells like normal. Instead, a starting cleric picks three domains, in addition to the two he would normally have. He may memorize spells from domains granted by this ability in any spell slot, and treats them as if they were normal clerical spells. Beginning at level 3, and every 2nd level thereafter (5, 7, 9, etc.), the domain cleric chooses another domain, and becomes able to cast the spells from it, as described in this ability.

Domains granted by this ability do not grant their domain power, nor do they count for the purposes of prerequisites. The two domains taken normally at first level behave properly. A domain cleric levelling in another class does not learn additional domains. « Last Edit: June 12, 2008, 11:33:54 AM by Stratovarius »"

[Maho-Tsukai]

That's not what I am looking to make, though. I am looking to have this class have full accesses to the cleric list(as a standard cleric) rather then getting ALL of it's spells known from domains. The domain thing was not originally the focus of the class but rather got suggested as a fix for an earlier issue. This class was originally meant to be a cloth wearing priest type of figure who uses the cleric spell list, not a random list cobbled together from various domains. Thus I would rather axe the bonus domain idea all together and and perhaps do something else to make the class on par with a cleric(Which is where I seek to put this. I want this to be a tier 1 class and the idea of getting spells ONLY from domains is, at best, a tier 3, in my mind..MAYBE tier 2 with the right domains...but tier 1? No.)

[Ozymandias]

It still seems susceptible to the "Full progression PrC out as soon as possible" virus, although the extra domains are obviously very powerful. It's certainly tier 1, and about as strong as a cleric, I would wager. Perhaps slightly stronger once you get DMM:Persist because low and medium BAB both get raised to good anyway with divine power. 6 skill points seems a little excessive considering that (e.g.) wizards get 2 (although they get int synergy I suppose).

Personally I would weaken the domain expansion a bit and give some other, unique benefit (maybe some sort of marshallesque aura or bardlike inspiration ability) to fill the dead levels (although of course WotC has no problem giving fullcasters nothing but spells).

[Dead_Jester]

Maybe, but 2 skill points per level was never a smart idea on WotC. Anything under 4 and you can't even cover most of your expected bases, and that's why Pathfinder put the minimum at 4 per level (and they even streamlined the skill system). A caster is expected to max out spellcraft, concentration, one knowledge skill (at least) and probably also put some points in Spot/Search/Listen and UMD. With 2 skill points, it simply isn't possible.

If you want a decent sage, than 6 is the minimum if you don't have Int synergy, because than you are probably maxing out 2 or 3 knowledge skills.

[Maho-Tsukai]

Yeah, I do agree with lessening the domains. Most likely giving the class only two bonus domains in place of 4, making it almost like a cleric who took the contemplative PrC. Either that or stick to my original idea of three domains at 1st level, one of which must be an alignment domain(Or the balance domain in the case of a true neutral priest.) and no bonus domains. As for the extra abilities I did in my mind toy around with giving the class something like the archivist's "Dark Knowledge" ability since I like the flavor of translating knowledge to party buffs for this class....However, I am not sure how to make said power different from Dark Knowledge/it's own thing rather then just slapping Dark Knowledge onto the class. Perhaps have the ability give different buffs then that of Dark Knowledge?

Also, the marshal-esc aura may work in place of the "dark knowledge" type ability as well, and it would give a more 'magical' feel to the class then the dark knowledge type power would.

Also, as far as DMM: Persist goes I am aware of it's broken-ness, especially on a cha-based caster like this. While it will still be an issue, I made it SLIGHTLY less worse by giving this guy less base rebuke/turn attempts then a cleric. A cleric gets 3+cha modifier while, due to having more charisma then most clerics, this guy gets 1+ cha modifier. DMM: Persist however, is not an issue with this class but rather with WOTC material and the DMM feat itself.

[Analytica]

In my opinion, this is significantly weaker than the Cloistered Cleric variant, which might be just what you aimed for - low Fortitude save, lower hit dice, and fewer spells. Having fewer spells may or may not be outweighed by spontaneous domain casting, but there are cleric ACFs that give you that for a single domain already. Being SAD for Charisma is not all that much better than being almost-SAD for Wisdom, so overall, I would use a Cloistered Cleric before this if I was to represent a priest character, except if I had other Charisma synergies. Something that might make sense would be to allow them more spontaneous access, maybe like the Spirit Shaman or even better, the Sha'ir from Dragon Compendium (can prepare individual spells at any time using their spells/day slots, but doing so takes between a few rounds to a few hours depending on the spell).

As for Charisma... while I can see how the stay-at-home temple leader needs it, I can also see how they would need Wisdom, perhaps more than the cleric who walks the world. It is what you would use to give advice and counselling, to make sure your subordinates actually perform their tasks properly, and what you would use when trying to understand how holy parables apply to the world around you so you can use it in your next sermon. I would give the priests bonus spells, at least, off of Wisdom.

YMMV.

Edit: Also, why a staff instead of a holy symbol? Seems to me this is the kind of thing that could and should differ between faiths. Just point out that they often place their holy symbols onto walking staffs, for easy access.

[Dead_Jester]

As for DMM Persist, it only becomes problematic when you can abuse of it. If you limit nightsticks and extra turning to one each, and make it so only turn undead attempts can be used, than it is almost impossible to abuse of it.

[Lix Lorn]

There's a typo of does written as dose.
Second sentence of spellcasting.

Also, I'd agree that the staff is more of a flavour thing than a rules thing. I'd go for what Analysis said and just note that they often use them.

Also, NEVER wearing armour is a bit steep. Why not just say 'they suffer from wearing armour as if they were arcane casters?'
Or, if you don't want it to be that easy, say their spells don't work at all in armour, and give them a feat that reduces it to ONLY being the same as ASF.

[Maho-Tsukai]

I see. As for bonus spells via wisdom, I actually considered that but decided against it in a mechanics vs. flavor battle, lack of MAD won out in my mind. Also, as for the armor thing, I like the idea of an ASF type feature for the class. Also, I was considering moving the spells-per day up to druid or archivist level rather then base/non-specialist wizard level.

As for other abilities I am trying to figure out a secondary ability to give the class that scales with it that is not the bonus domains as I fear that druid or archivist spells per day + 4 bonus domains may be a bit much. Likewise, even with the bonus domains and druid or archivist spells per day I am still not sure if it needs another ability. I was thinking some kind of aura-esc mechanic that allows the class to be able to turn some of it's buff spells(desecrate and consecrate included despite not being direct buffs.) into auras that last all day(of course you could only turn one spell into an aura per day so on any given day you could not have multiple auras stacking.) The only issue is that I want it to be limited by spell level, and leveling up in this class can grant you the ability to do this with higher and higher spells. It basicly allows you to have your party effected by a buff of your choice at all times, which can be pretty nice.

Also, as for how the ability is activated, when you prepare your daily spells you "expend" one slot before you even fill it(so you basically give up a slot that day.) to turn one spell from the cleric list that is a AOE spell that targets just allies or allies and yourself or is desecrate or consecrate of the level of the slot you lost for that day into this aura and you can only have ONE aura active per-day.(So you can't expend multiple slots for multiple auras on the same day)

Paired with that the class would either get bonus domains, or an ability which allows it to preemptively cast touch spells on enemies who actually hit you. Not something that would be used often but it's a good "last ditch defense" for when you've been dispelled and some meaty guy with a big sword is looking to smack you around. If the second ability is more balanced then the bonus domains I would most likely move this up to a d8 HD and perhaps give it simple weapons instead of wizard weapons.

Also, another thing I had planed to do with the class but decided against due to power reasons was give it Cha to AC. So, I would like opinions on all of these various ideas I have and what would work best.

[Lix Lorn]

I'd recommend NOT boosting it's BAB or hit die. You want to keep it distinct from cleric.

[Maho-Tsukai]

I never planed on boosting it's BAB. If the priest wants a good BAB he just has to slap on a divine power and call it a day. The main issue is that I am trying to think of some kind of extra ability but don't know how to balance said abilities. I like the idea of turning cleric-list buffs into all-day auras to help allies but have no idea what progression(for spell levels you can use this power with) would be balanced. Likewise, I have no idea if that mechanic is even worth it at all or if it's just meh.

Also,I toyed with the idea of instead giving it some auras like the marshal but I don't want to make it step on the marshal's toes and beyond delayed progression for auras and perhaps only getting minor auras I can't think of any ways to do that. As for bonus domains, I don't know how broken they would be if the class had say a delayed minor aura progression. Likewise, is having a delayed minor aura progression even worth it as well or is that still not good enough?