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Derjuin
2011-01-06, 03:32 AM
After failing to find a PrC that suited what I was looking for (a class that continued Monk levels while allowing them to be Chaotic - like a Blackguard, for Monks on the law-chaos slider), I decided to make one. My sleep-deprived mind also decided to completely change the class from *just* a monk progression, so...

PEACH would be very welcome :smallsmile:

The biggest things I'm worried about with the class and its epic version are at the end in a spoiler.

CHAOS BROTHER

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080617102141/wowwiki/images/thumb/3/33/Qiraji.jpg/384px-Qiraji.jpg
original image by Samwise Didier of Blizzard Entertainment

Many other monks would have you believe that Order is the path to realizing the potential of the soul, and that balance through Law is the only way to stay on this path. What they have failed to see is that Order is not the only way to perfection and that balance is overrated. If one strides into the shadow of Chaos with confidence, Chaos will provide much of what Law could not. ~ Meirkan, Chaos Sister

The Chaos Monkhood its members known as Chaos Brothers and Chaos Sisters is a group dedicated to perfection of body and soul through the powers of Chaos. As Brothers and Sisters of the monkhood grow in strength, they are warped by the fluxuating powers they deal with on a daily basis. While they appear malformed, grotesque and often nightmarish to others, they have found enlightenment through the random nature of chaos. Chaos Brothers and Sisters revere creatures whose existance is constantly manipulated by chance and chaos two such creatures include Chaos Beasts and Hagunemnons. It is rumored that the origin of the Chaos Monkhood, and all other cults like it, were the doing of a particularly crafty Hagunemnon.

BECOMING A CHAOS BROTHER
Chaos Brothers are usually initiated by a member of the Chaos Monkhood, particularly clerics capable of summoning chaos beasts to inflict corporeal instability upon the initiate. However, some find themselves exploring planes and regions with native chaos beasts, and find truth in chaos after suffering from instability. Those that join after having suffered at the hands of a native chaos beast are not required to go through the ritual corporeal instability again; they have proven their ability already.

ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
Ability: Ki Strike (Magic)
Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike
Base Saves: Will +4 or higher
Alignment: Any Chaotic
Special: The character must have survived through Corporeal Instability and must have controlled his shape at least once and suffered at least 5 points of Wisdom drain because of mental shock.

Class Skills
The Chaos Brother's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha) Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).
Skills Points at Each Level: 4 + int

Hit Dice: d10

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+2|
+0|Monk Abilities, Ki Strike +1 (Chaos), Prone Attack

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+0|Touch of Chaos, Hagunemnon Body (Limb)

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+1|Ki Strike +2 (Metalline)

4th|
+4|
+4|
+4|
+1|Strength of Chaos, Hagunemnon Body (Head)

5th|
+5|
+4|
+4|
+1|Ki Strike +3 (Transmogrification)

6th|
+6|
+5|
+5|
+2|Appendage Mutation, Hagunemnon Body (Torso)

7th|
+7|
+5|
+5|
+2|Ki Strike +4 (Reach)

8th|
+8|
+6|
+6|
+2|Appendage Growth, Hagunemnon Body (Unbound)

9th|
+9|
+6|
+6|
+3|Ki Strike +5 (Instability)

10th|
+10|
+7|
+7|
+3|Chaos Body[/table]

Weapon Proficiencies: Chaos Brothers gain proficiency with all simple weapons if they did not have it before.

Monk Abilities: For the purposes of determining Unarmed Strike damage, Flurry of Blows and AC bonus, Chaos Brother and Monk levels stack.

Ki Strike (Su): At 1st level, a Chaos Brother learns to adapt his Ki to the everchanging forces of Chaos. In addition to Ki Stike (Magic), the Chaos Brother gains Ki Strike (chaotic) at 1st level. His unarmed strikes also gain a magical +1 enhancement bonus to attacks and damage. If the character already has Ki Strike (Lawful), it is replaced with Ki Strike (Chaotic). At 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 9th levels, his Ki Strike continues to improve in several ways:

At 3rd level, a Chaos Brother may, once per round as a free action, make his unarmed strikes count as either Cold Iron, Alchemical Silver or Adamantine for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction and bypassing hardness of objects. This bonus lasts for 1 round. In addition, the enhancement bonus on his Ki Strike improves to +2.

At 5th level, a Chaos Brother may have his unarmed strikes enchanted as if they were magical weapons. In addition, the enhancement bonus on his Ki Strike improves to +3.

At 7th level, a Chaos Brother may, once per round as a free action, extend the reach of his unarmed strikes; doing so increases his reach by 5', but does not allow him to strike adjacent spaces. This bonus lasts for 1 round. In addition, the enhancement bonus on his Ki Strike improves to +4.

At 9th level, the Chaos Brother's very essence becomes warped by Chaos, and anything he strikes may be subject to the same warping. Any creature struck by a Chaos Brother's unarmed strike must succeed on a DC (10 + 1/2 the Chaos Brother's character level + his Wisdom modifier) Fortitude save or suffer 2 points of Constitution damage; this damage can only occur once per round, so a creature struck by 2 consecutive unarmed strikes only needs to make one Save, and would not suffer any additional Constitution damage from his Ki Strike (Instability) ability that round. Any creature that accrues 8 or more Constitution damage from a Chaos Brother's Ki Strike (Instability) ability is instantly afflicted as if by a Chaos Beast's Corporeal Instability ability; the DC to regain its shape is instead equal to 15 + the Chaos Brother's Wisdom modifier.

Prone Attack (Ex): At 1st level, the Chaos Brother gains the Prone Attack feat as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the requirements.

Touch of Chaos (Ex): At 2nd level, the Chaos Brother's physical body becomes warped in minor ways, becoming tougher than usual the appearance of scales and carapace is not an unusual sign of the Touch of Chaos. A Chaos Brother with the Touch of Chaos gains Damage Reduction/Lawful equal to his Chaos Brother levels, up to a maximum of his Wisdom modifier. The Chaos Brother's appearance lends itself greatly to intimidation and power, but not so much to gentler social affairs; he gains a +2 bonus to Intimidate checks, a +2 bonus to Strength checks, and -2 penalties to Diplomacy and Gather Information.

Hagunemnon Body (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, the Chaos Brother's body begins to lose its stability; at 2nd level, his limbs are able to change into those of another living, corporeal creature. He may change up to 1 limb for every 2 Chaos Brother levels he has, in addition to any other body parts he changes with Hagunemnon Body. When the Chaos Brother adapts a new limb, he gains the attack that limb would be associated with (Claw, Slam, etc.) along with a single (Ex) ability the creature whose limb he adapts has. If the limb is capable of a special form of movement (for example, a wing, a webbed arm or leg, or a special digging claw), the Chaos Brother gains that movement mode at the same speed and maneuverability as the original creature. If the limb originally belongs to a creature of a different size category, the Chaos Brother may use either his own size category or the size category of the original creature, whichever is most helpful to him at the time of mutation. Once chosen, the size cannot be changed until he changes his limb again.

The Chaos Brother can only adapt the body parts of creatures with fewer or equal HD than he has character levels (so a Monk 6/Chaos Brother 2 could use the limbs from any creature with 8 HD or less). The new form lasts a number of minutes equal to the Chaos Brother's class level plus his Wisdom modifier. The Chaos Brother can take the form of new limbs, etc. as many times per day as he needs. Any objects the Chaos Brother is carrying or wearing on a limb that is transformed meld into the new form and become nonfunctional; upon reverting to their normal form, the objects return to their previous location.

At 4th level, the Chaos Brother gains the ability to transform his head into the head of any living, corporeal creature with HD equal to or less than his character levels; he gains an additional (Ex) ability from any creature he uses the head form of.

At 6th level, the Chaos Brother gains the ability to transform his torso into the torso of any living, corporeal creature with HD equal to or less than his character levels; he gains the option of taking a single (Su) or (SLA) ability from the creature he uses the torso form of. He cannot, however, gain any of the following abilities using Hagunemnon Body (Torso):

Alternate Form
Wild Shape
Change Shape
Polymorph, Shapechange and related Spell-Like Abilities
Spell-like Abilities that make use of spells beyond his own character levels (so a Monk 5/Chaos Brother 10 cannot gain an SLA that allows him to cast Wish or Gate, but he can take on an SLA that allows him to cast Ethereal Jaunt. For the purpose of determining which spells are beyond a Chaos Brother, treat his total character level as if he were a sorcerer of the same level).
Any ability that requires the Chaos Brother to pay XP


At 8th level, the Chaos Brother gains the ability to take even stranger forms; he may replace a limb with a head, or his head with a limb; however, if he replaces his head with a limb, he must replace one of his other limbs with a head. He may also replace any limb he has with any part of the creature and still gain the (Ex) ability from it; he need not specifically adapt one of its limbs. Again, the total HD of any creature's body parts adapted must be equal to or less than the Chaos Brother's character levels.

Extraordinary, Spell-Like and Supernatural Abilities gained through the use of Hagunemnon Body are usable as many times per day as the original creature was able to use them, up to 3/day. If a creature has an at-will ability, the Chaos Brother can only use it 3/day. The DC for any abilities gained through Hagunemnon Body are equal to 15 + the Chaos Brother's Wisdom modifier if they are not spell-related, and 10 + the spell's level + the Chaos Brother's Wisdom modifier if they are.

Strength of Chaos (Ex): At 4th level, the Chaos Brother's physical body becomes strengthened by his connection to Chaos he may apply his Chaos Brother levels to his unarmed strike damage, up to a maximum of his Wisdom modifier. Spikes, thorns, scars and larger muscles are common signs of the Strength of Chaos; these signs, like the ones from the Touch of Chaos, aid his ability to provoke fear and trepidation in foes, and in other areas - he gains a further +2 bonus to Intimidate and Strength checks, a +4 Circumstance bonus to Grapple checks, and -4 penalties to Diplomacy and Gather Information.

Appendage Mutation (Ex): At 6th level, the Chaos Brother's appendages become affected by his connection to chaos fingers fuse to become claws, pincers or tentacles. He is still able to handle weapons and other objects; however, the nature of the mutation leads to physical force being favored over dextrous manipulation: the Chaos Brother permanently gains a +2 bonus to Strength and a -2 penalty to Dexterity. These mutated appendages can be used for Unarmed Strikes or strikes with wielded weapons, but not natural attacks; they inflict a different kind of damage based on the chosen mutation if used for unarmed strikes. Claws inflict Slashing and Piercing damage, Pincers inflict Piercing and Bludgeoning damage, and Tentacles inflict Bludgeoning and Slashing damage. Regardless of the type of mutation, all Unarmed Strikes made by the Chaos Brother are modified as if he were one size category larger.

In addition, the Chaos Brother gains the ability to use Flurry of Blows on standard attack actions. If he does, he cannot make more than one attack action in a round, regardless of how many bonus standard actions he may gain.

The Chaos Brother's mutated appendages do not hamper his ability to use rings or transform limbs using Hagunemnon Body.

Appendage Growth (Ex): At 8th level, the Chaos Brother's body becomes further infused with chaotic energy, mutating his body and causing him to grow two additional appendages. These extra appendages cannot handle objects; they can, however, aid in his attacks or his defense. When the Chaos Brother gains Appendage Growth, choose one: Two armored antennae, or two sharpened claw-arms.

Armored antennae aid the Chaos Brother in identifying trouble before his other senses can; he gains the Uncanny Dodge special ability, Blindsense out to 10 ft. per Chaos Brother level and the ability to reroll a miss due to Concealment once per round.

Sharpened claw-arms aid the Chaos Brother whenever he makes a standard attack action; each claw-arm can only lend one attack, inflicting 1d4 damage + 1/2 the Chaos Brother's Strength. Strength of Chaos applies to attacks made by the Chaos Brother's claw-arms. Treat the claw-arms as if they were secondary natural weapons.

Chaos Body (Ex): At 10th level, the Chaos Brother's body becomes fully attuned to the forces of Chaos. He is treated as an outsider rather than as a humanoid for the purpose of spells and magical effects. In addition, the Chaos Brother gains immunity to critical hits and sneak attacks as well as immunity to polymorph and other shape-changing abilities; no mortal magic can permanently affix the form of a Chaos Brother whose body has transformed. Magic that changes the shape or affixes the shape of the Chaos Brother functions for a single round, then the Chaos Brother reverts to its previous shape. Unlike other outsiders, the Chaos Brother can still be brought back from the dead as if he were a member of his previous creature type.

PLAYING A CHAOS BROTHER
Chaos Brothers are toughened monks without some of the other defensive techniques a Monk would gain. They are intended to be front-line combatants that are able to display a little bit of prowess in charismatic dealings.
Combat: Once Appendage Mutation is gained, Chaos Brothers can make a multitude of attacks as a standard action, and can work effectively as a kind of skirmisher: moving and attacking in the same round. With increased hit die, damage reduction and reach available to them, they do well in being on the front line, dealing with foes directly.
Advancement: Spellcasting classes can add some variety to a Chaos Brother's attack routine, but doing so does not progress the Chaos Brother's unarmed damage or Ki Strike. Adding other classes that improve upon these or grant the Chaos Brother the ability to add other sources of damage to their unarmed strikes would also benefit them.

CHAOS BROTHERS IN THE WORLD
Insane is what they are. The Chaos Monkhood is a cult, and like many others, often have little idea of what they are tampering with. Pure chaos is itself a destructive thing, as it breeds nothing but entropy. Despite warnings from many scholars, the Monkhood and its sister cults that practice the same thing continue to plumb the depths of the mortal soul in search of empty power. That's really all there is to say on the matter. ~ Master Jiata Linmay

Chaos Brothers are often split into two groups those that use their power to help, and those that do not. The ones that help others with their chaotic might are much fewer than their evil counterparts, but they alone stand against the idea that their path is for naught but personal power and vile fulfillment. While the Monkhood itself is a neutral party, many of its partner cults make use of their chaotic enlightenment to bring terror and pain to others.

Daily Life: Most of the greater Chaos Brothers in the world are reclusive, and scarcely accepted by the civilizations they were once a part of. As recluses, their daily life tends to include performing rites, prayer and meditation; most hunt to survive if they do not have some way to magically procure nourishment. Chaos Brothers that find ways to pass themselves off as members of a civilization often disguise themselves as monks when out and about, but perform their rituals in private.

Notables: Kuori-Sung was once a human monk whose monastery exiled him for stepping too far from its guidelines. He wandered for years until he discovered the Chaos Monkhood, who, after testing the man, accepted him. With much effort, Kuori-Sung ascended the many rungs within the Chaos Monkhood's heirarchy, becoming one of its six masters under the Grandmaster. Kuori-Sung became known as The Lash, as it was his normal reaction to his opponents: to lash out in anger and hate. He lives at the Chaos Monkhood's primary temple and sanctuary, his transformations too gruesome to fit within normal society. He does not try to hide his mutation, however; in fact, he cherishes the idea that he has become so much greater than he was before, even greater than the masters of his old Order.

Organizations: The Chaos Monkhood is an obvious organization for any aspiring Chaos Brother, and is in fact the group most sought after by one. The Chaos Monkhood revels in all forms of chaos whether they be used for Good or Evil. Its one primary rule is that violence must be kept outside of the walls of the Monkhood's temple.

Other large organizations willing to accept or train Chaos Brothers include the Tahatan Monkhood, the Cloister of Chaos and the cult, Shadow under Gfhan. The Tahatan Monkhood and the Shadow under Gfhan are both groups that use their chaotic power for violent, selfish reasons. The Cloister of Chaos is like the Chaos Monkhood, being a neutral party, but are much more focused on scholarly pursuits within Chaos.

THE CHAOS MONKHOOD

Despite its name, the Chaos Monkhood is not just an organization for Monks; Clerics and other divinely inspired individuals of a Chaotic slant are welcome within its walls. In fact, the Monkhood's leadership is equally constructed of Chaos Brothers/Sisters and Clerics; the Clerics are usually the ones that administer entry tests, unleashing a Chaos Beast on a new recruit and cleansing the recruit's drained wisdom if he or she survives the torment of Corporeal Instability. There are almost no Paladins of the Chaos Monkhood, because of its acceptance of both Good and Evil.

EX-CHAOS BROTHERS
Any Chaos Brother that ceases to be Chaotic cannot gain additional levels in the Chaos Brother class, and his Ki Strike (Chaos) reverts to Ki Strike (Magic). He retains all abilities he has gained from the class except Hagunemnon Body and Chaos Body, but cannot associate himself with the Chaos Monkhood or any other cult that uses the same practices. Even if he becomes Chaotic in the future, he cannot gain levels in the class without aid from another Chaos Brother. In order to rejoin the Chaos Monkhood, an Ex-Chaos Brother must subject himself to the same torturous test he suffered through to join in the first place - he must suffer Corporeal Instability, control his shape at least once, and sustain 5 points of Wisdom drain and survive. Some clerics force the rejoining brother to sustain even more Wisdom drain, but this is not a usual part of the rites of rejoining.

THE EPIC CHAOS BROTHER

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc273/xilobucket/EpicChaosBrother.png
original image by Roki the Red on Deviantart

Epic Chaos Brothers are often too horribly malformed for mortal minds to comprehend.

Class Skills
The Epic Chaos Brother's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha) Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).
Skills Points at Each Level: 4 + int

Hit Dice: d10

{table=head]Level|Special

11th|Ki Strike +6 (Epic)

12th|Appendage Growth

13th|Ki Strike +7

14th|Bonus Feat

15th|Ki Strike +8

16th|Appendage Growth

17th|Ki Strike +9

18th|Bonus Feat

19th|Ki Strike +10

20th|Appendage Growth[/table]

Ki Strike (Su): At 11th level and beyond, a Chaos Brother's Ki Strike is considered Epic for the purposes of overcoming Damage Reduction. In addition, at 11th and every 2 levels afterwards, the enhancement bonus on the Chaos Brother's Ki Strike increases by +1.

Appendage Growth (Ex): At 12th level and every 4 levels afterwards (16th, 20th, etc.), the Chaos Brother sprouts an additional appendage; this appendage's anatomy is undiscernable and thus does not count as one of the Chaos Brother's limbs, but it provides the Chaos Brother with a +1 Insight bonus to AC, a +1 bonus to Initiative and 10% concealment; the appendages are things of pure chaos, and cause the Chaos Brother's body to slightly phase out from the normal realm at just the right moment. The more appendages a Chaos Brother has, the more often this phasing occurs. The concealment and Insight bonus to AC granted by Appendages do not stack with sources of concealment or Insight bonuses to AC other than other Appendages gained through Appendage Growth.

Bonus Feat: At 14th level and every 4 levels afterwards (18th, 22nd, etc.), the Chaos Brother gains a bonus Epic feat from the list of bonus epic feats available for Monks.

Worries:

1. Too many abilities in its Epic levels. I noticed no other class really fills up *all* of its epic level slots with progressing abilities and bonus feats...

2. Appendage mutation might be too confusing...or wordy.

3. Again, appendage mutation. The intent is to let the Chaos Brother deal alternate forms of damage depending on what form they picked, plus do more damage with unarmed strikes, but I'm not sure if I've worded it correctly that the player doesn't actually get claw/slam attacks with the new appendages.

4. Instability Ki Strike being too powerful.

5. The class favoring Charisma way too much.

6. Hagunemnon Body being too open or too powerful.


Changelog:


Changed intro requirements, made them a little stricter roleplay-wise and less strict stat-wise.
Replaced Charisma on abilities with Wisdom
Added Hagunemnon Body - needs PEACHing

stainboy
2011-01-06, 10:24 AM
This class makes me want to roll a monk, wait a few levels, then burn down the monastery. These guys would fit nicely into Eberron: they could hang out with dolgaunts and talk about how conventional appendages are overrated. And they even have epic progression!


A few criticisms...

Why Charisma? Monks don't use it and don't have the stat points to spare. It seems like Touch of Chaos should just scale by half class level or be capped by Wisdom instead.

It seems like the Chaos Brother gets more unarmed strike bonuses than it strictly needs, and not much else crunch-wise. I'd like to see more of the class's flavor translate into utility. Maybe a minor temporary shapechanging ability (similar to Alter Self, but one extremity rather than whole body) so you can pick up a climb speed or manticore spikes or constriction for a few rounds or something.

Also, why require 10 levels of monk to enter, rather than 5? Besides making the really cool abilities out of reach of most games, it makes it really tempting to wait another level and grab Greater Flurry, which it seems like you balanced around them not having.


I like that you significantly powered up the monk, by the way, and it seems like some of these fixes would work for the non-tentacled-mutant variety of monk too. Are you working from the 3.5 monk, the Pathfinder monk, or something else? If you're working from a homebrew version of the base class I'd love to see it.

TheGeckoKing
2011-01-06, 11:20 AM
Awesome class is awesome. Just two things that annoy me;

Far too hard to get into. I can see your after a Monk 10/Chaos Brother 10
set-up, but that really strangles your creativity when trying to build your character. Also, why is it based so much on CHA? That's the one stat Monks DON'T really need.

Hyooz
2011-01-06, 12:17 PM
There's nothing terrible here, as far as I can tell. It does, however, succeed in making the Monk even more MAD (adding Charisma to the morass of abilities he needs to be effective) and doesn't really do anything to address the monk's issues. You didn't really say you were setting out to do that, so if the monk's power level is fine for you that's not a big deal.

Other than that, I kind of like the flavor of it all, but I'm kind of disappointed it doesn't get used more. It ends up being very little more than a chaotic monk. We don't see much of his connection to chaos until the Appendage Growth ability. Until then, the chaos warping stuff is usually just flavor justifications tossed in. I'd like to see more of the kind of abberation otherworldly theme throughout the class.

The prerequisites are kind of oddly generic, considering what happens. "I'm a level 7 monk whose ideals have turned to chaos. Whoa! I sprouted a new arm!" Y'know what I'm saying?

Derjuin
2011-01-06, 02:40 PM
This class makes me want to roll a monk, wait a few levels, then burn down the monastery. These guys would fit nicely into Eberron: they could hang out with dolgaunts and talk about how conventional appendages are overrated. And they even have epic progression!


A few criticisms...

Why Charisma? Monks don't use it and don't have the stat points to spare. It seems like Touch of Chaos should just scale by half class level or be capped by Wisdom instead.

It seems like the Chaos Brother gets more unarmed strike bonuses than it strictly needs, and not much else crunch-wise. I'd like to see more of the class's flavor translate into utility. Maybe a minor temporary shapechanging ability (similar to Alter Self, but one extremity rather than whole body) so you can pick up a climb speed or manticore spikes or constriction for a few rounds or something.

Also, why require 10 levels of monk to enter, rather than 5? Besides making the really cool abilities out of reach of most games, it makes it really tempting to wait another level and grab Greater Flurry, which it seems like you balanced around them not having.


I like that you significantly powered up the monk, by the way, and it seems like some of these fixes would work for the non-tentacled-mutant variety of monk too. Are you working from the 3.5 monk, the Pathfinder monk, or something else? If you're working from a homebrew version of the base class I'd love to see it.

I'm actually working from the 3.5 monk; this was intended to be for them, I was too worried that giving them the ability to enchant their fists would make every monk want to be one...I think it could work for some homebrew monks, too, if they get Ki Strike.

Originally the Touch of Chaos/Strength of Chaos abilities were going to be abilities called "Hagunemnon Body", where you could transform a body part into the body part of another creature, gaining a single EX ability from that creature, the attack mode associated with that part, and any movement (if it was a wing, or a leg, for example).


Awesome class is awesome. Just two things that annoy me;

Far too hard to get into. I can see your after a Monk 10/Chaos Brother 10
set-up, but that really strangles your creativity when trying to build your character. Also, why is it based so much on CHA? That's the one stat Monks DON'T really need.

The main reason was for Ki Strike (Lawful) turning into Ki Strike (Chaos), sort of a "screw you" to the lawful monk ideas, but it could work from Ki Strike (Magic) instead.


There's nothing terrible here, as far as I can tell. It does, however, succeed in making the Monk even more MAD (adding Charisma to the morass of abilities he needs to be effective) and doesn't really do anything to address the monk's issues. You didn't really say you were setting out to do that, so if the monk's power level is fine for you that's not a big deal.

Other than that, I kind of like the flavor of it all, but I'm kind of disappointed it doesn't get used more. It ends up being very little more than a chaotic monk. We don't see much of his connection to chaos until the Appendage Growth ability. Until then, the chaos warping stuff is usually just flavor justifications tossed in. I'd like to see more of the kind of abberation otherworldly theme throughout the class.

The prerequisites are kind of oddly generic, considering what happens. "I'm a level 7 monk whose ideals have turned to chaos. Whoa! I sprouted a new arm!" Y'know what I'm saying?

I thought granting the ability to Flurry on a standard attack action would help, in addition to giving them the option to add in 2 extra attacks from Claw-arms; I wasn't aiming to improve them, though, just give them more options in combat other than "I full attack with Flurry again, and hope my AC etc. is high enough to not die".

The prerequisites were the barebones for entering, but I'm thinking of changing them to be less strict, stat-wise, and more strict, event/roleplay-wise. My biggest issue with making events as requirements is it feels awfully difficult to make a chaotic event requirement without making it seem like the class is intended for neutral/evil types (which it sort of is - I don't really see too many Good types wanting to disfigure their body like this).

Ooh, maybe they have to suffer through Corporeal Instability and survive it?

The fluff behind using Charisma was that the DC for controlling your shape when afflicted by Corporeal Instability is a Charisma check, though I understand that Charisma just detracts from the pool of abilities the Monk needs to focus on, making them even more ridiculously MAD.

Perhaps each appendage they add, mutate, and change via Hagunemnon Body grants them a penalty to Diplomacy and a bonus to Intimidate?

Changes that I'd like to make:


Change Charisma base to Wisdom base
Lower requirements to enter, possibly to Ki Strike (Magic), Will Save +4 and having suffered through and survived a Chaos Beast's Corporeal Stability
Add in Hagunemnon Body (Su), which allows the character to change one body part (Head, Limb, or Torso) to that of another creature's, though the body part remains the same size as the Chaos Brother's.
Change the mechanical effects of mutating early on



Edit: Updated the class's abilities; thank everyone for the PEACH so far, more would be just as welcome! :smallsmile:

stainboy
2011-01-06, 07:51 PM
New stuff is cool.

If a chaos brother grows wings, does he turn his arms into wings, or do wings sprout from his back? Can he use Hagunemnon Body to alter limbs gained with Appendage Growth?

Can Hagunemnon (Torso) grant spell-like abilities, supernatural abilities, or either? Your description says supernatural but one of the examples lists spell-like. How many times per day can a chaos brother use abilities with limited uses? How do you set save DCs?

Derjuin
2011-01-06, 10:00 PM
New stuff is cool.

If a chaos brother grows wings, does he turn his arms into wings, or do wings sprout from his back? Can he use Hagunemnon Body to alter limbs gained with Appendage Growth?

Can Hagunemnon (Torso) grant spell-like abilities, supernatural abilities, or either? Your description says supernatural but one of the examples lists spell-like. How many times per day can a chaos brother use abilities with limited uses? How do you set save DCs?

His arms would turn into wings, unless he had Hagunemnon Body (Unbound), where he could turn his head into a wing (:smalltongue:). I don't know if it's clearly worded or not, but you only need one wing to gain the flight speed - this is intentional, it's supposed to be one of those weird side-effects of mutation (the effects of having a second wing are provided for by quasi-magical effects, essentially).

The appendages gained through both epic and non-epic levels cannot be morphed using Hagunemnon Body; the ones gained from non-epic levels have it written in their details, and the epic ones have no discernable anatomy, so they're not really limbs, heads or torsos.

And oops, thanks for catching that - it should read (SLA or Su), and I'll work out how the DCs of abilities granted through Hagunemnon Body work...:smallsmile:

Morph Bark
2011-01-07, 02:12 PM
If you already fixed this, ignore this, but I figure the Charisma thing could be fixed easily enough by making the Monk stuff Cha-dependant instead of Wis-dependant due to some class feature.

Burnheart
2011-01-07, 02:51 PM
One Question, when you say, DC (10 + 1/2 the Chaos Brother's total class level + his Wisdom modifier) do you mean half his Chaos Brother levels or half his Choas brother levels plus his other classes Levels? If you mean half his Choas brother levels plus his other classes Levels you can change 1/2 the Chaos Brother's total class level to 1/2 character level.

Derjuin
2011-01-07, 03:21 PM
If you already fixed this, ignore this, but I figure the Charisma thing could be fixed easily enough by making the Monk stuff Cha-dependant instead of Wis-dependant due to some class feature.

I did fix it; I switched it over to Wisdom, though I had thought to change previous Monk abilities over from Wisdom to Charisma; I think leaving it as Wisdom might be smoother though, just so you don't have to stack charisma before gaining the PrC levels, and don't need to replace your wisdom items after gaining them.


One Question, when you say, DC (10 + 1/2 the Chaos Brother's total class level + his Wisdom modifier) do you mean half his Chaos Brother levels or half his Choas brother levels plus his other classes Levels? If you mean half his Choas brother levels plus his other classes Levels you can change 1/2 the Chaos Brother's total class level to 1/2 character level.

I do mean character level - thanks for pointing that out :smallsmile: it's been edited to be clearer now.

Draken
2011-01-07, 10:59 PM
This is pretty damn awesome.

I saw nothing particularly screaming as far as balance goes, so... Yeah, I don't think I have anything to add. Looks like a fun class to play. Bookmarked.

Derjuin
2011-01-08, 12:18 AM
This is pretty damn awesome.

I saw nothing particularly screaming as far as balance goes, so... Yeah, I don't think I have anything to add. Looks like a fun class to play. Bookmarked.

Thank you! :smallbiggrin:

I'm hoping to get it play tested sometime soon...

The-Mage-King
2011-01-08, 12:23 AM
Thank you! :smallbiggrin:

I'm hoping to get it play tested sometime soon...

Prehaps if you were to, say, revive a dead campaign that held promise you could get it playtested.

*Coughnathshungercough*
What? I liked my character in that.

Derjuin
2011-01-08, 01:06 AM
I'll have to get my notes back together for it; right now I think they're scattered between about 3 different notebooks...:smalleek:

Bhu
2011-01-08, 01:48 AM
CHaos Monks are awesome!!!!

WIsh I could post mine on GitP, but the mods would freak...

I must find someone willing to let me playtest this...

The-Mage-King
2011-01-08, 07:34 PM
I'll have to get my notes back together for it; right now I think they're scattered between about 3 different notebooks...:smalleek:

'tis sad about that.

I can see how that could happen, though.

Hazzardevil
2011-01-26, 03:03 PM
I like this class and I intend to find a game where I can play with it.
I have just one question, you mentioned some clerics take it but I can't see why they would unless it was just a one level dip, are you going to give a half casting progression or somethign to remedy this?

Derjuin
2011-01-26, 03:24 PM
I like this class and I intend to find a game where I can play with it.
I have just one question, you mentioned some clerics take it but I can't see why they would unless it was just a one level dip, are you going to give a half casting progression or somethign to remedy this?

The bit about Clerics joining is in reference specifically to the Chaos Monkhood, an organization that welcomes monks (who become Chaos Brothers), clerics etc. Clerics wouldn't actually take levels in the Chaos Brother class unless they wanted to and were able. In short, the class is made for monks, and these monks just happen to associate with some chaotic clerics in their major organization.

Hazzardevil
2011-01-26, 03:30 PM
Oh okay. I'm tempted to make a PrC for clerics that works with the brotherhood and uses the same general concept.