Gestalt NPC/PC class

[DisgruntledDM]

So this idea popped into my head the other day; as kind of a background type thing, has anyone ever created a gestalt character with a level in a PC class and an NPC class? For example, if you wanted to create a knight character, have a level in aristocrat and in fighter.

I'm pretty much thinking out loud here, haven't given it too much thought as to balance or anything.

[Keinnicht]

Are we talking multiclass, or gestalt?

Neither is really worthwhile. I mean, I'm not a super-optimizing freak who wants to play characters who are gods at third level, but I want my character to be effective. Since it's "background" it would pretty much be your first level. And being a first level aristocrat in an adventuring party doesn't sound like fun.

Gestalt might work a bit better, but you'd still be fairly weak and ineffective compared to your fellow teammates.

I shoot to represent background more in personality, placement of skills points, and other choices. Especially because, since most people make young-ish characters, it makes sense for your first level to be in what you've trained for. A 18 year old human fighter probably never gained an aristocrat level, he was probably sent to become a knight or something by his noble family. A 50 year old Elf Wizard probably spent his youth at an Arcane Order, eventually gaining enough knowledge of magic to become a wizard.

A rogue probably had rogue-ish tendencies since childhood, whether through petty theft, manipulating other children, or sneaking around and "spying" on adults. Likewise, the flavor text for sorcerers suggests that they would've gained a sorcerer level before they had time to gain a level in anything else, abruptly manifesting their power at a young age.

It might make more sense if you were trying to play an "unlikely hero," who sort of just got shunted into heroism, and having a few levels of expert and then some of fighter. But, honestly, it'd probably be better to just represent that by spending some skill points on craft skills.

Throw all this out the window if you're playing a super-roleplay oriented game, but even in an even mix, you're probably going to want to stick to PC classes.

[Shpadoinkle]

I've seen threads with people suggesting that mid-tier classes could gestalt with an NPC class to get a moderate power boost. (Low-tier classes could gestalt with any other low-tier class, and high-tier classes couldn't gestalt at all.)

Whether it's ever actually been implemented though, I couldn't say.

[Lateral]

So this idea popped into my head the other day; as kind of a background type thing, has anyone ever created a gestalt character with a level in a PC class and an NPC class? For example, if you wanted to create a knight character, have a level in aristocrat and in fighter.

I'm pretty much thinking out loud here, haven't given it too much thought as to balance or anything.

Actually, that's been suggested as a possible power boost to the lower-tier classes (4th tier, I think, was the one that got PC//NPC gestalting). Aristocrat is usually a less effective gestalting choice than most of the others (except Commoner, obviously). Generally, people choose Warrior for the proficiencies, BAB and HD or Experts for skills. (It's usually smart not to allow them to take Adept for the gestalt, seeing as Adepts are more powerful than some PC classes.)

Edit: Warrior//Ninja'ed. :smalltongue:

[Murdim]

has anyone ever created a gestalt character with a level in a PC class and an NPC class?
Well, yes. This comes up quite regularly in this forum, often in the context of class tiers.

Also, rather than using the actual gestalt rules, it is usually considered easier to simply "improve" your base class with all the advantages of the "secondary" class. Partial gestalt multiclassing can quickly become problematic.

[Greenish]

(It's usually smart not to allow them to take Adept for the gestalt, seeing as Adepts are more powerful than some PC classes.)Experts are more powerful than some PC classes. :smallamused:

[Lateral]

Experts are more powerful than some PC classes. :smallamused:

Well yeah, I guess, but Adepts are stronger than some tier 4s.

[megabyter5]

Experts are more powerful than some PC classes. :smallamused:

Not if you forbid UMD from their skill list. And UPD, if your setting has PDs to be Ud.

[MeeposFire]

Experts are more useful, not more powerful than some PC classes. The expert does not have damage potential a fighter does, but a fighter does little outside of their small niche whereas an expert can have the skills to be awesome in many other ways. A fighter's problem is more of lack of versatility rather than power.

[Lateral]

Not if you forbid UMD from their skill list. And UPD, if your setting has PDs to be Ud.

Even then, they're better than CW Samurai, excluding Intimidate cheese.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Experts are more useful, not more powerful than some PC classes. The expert does not have damage potential a fighter does, but a fighter does little outside of their small niche whereas an expert can have the skills to be awesome in many other ways. A fighter's problem is more of lack of versatility rather than power.More specifically, the fighter can't achieve his potential damage in many situations due to his lack of versatility, which puts him in T4. The Mailman is high-op T2, and yet he is also a one-trick pony; the difference is that he uses the Sorcerer's versatile toolkit to deliver that damage in almost any situation.