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WarKitty
2011-01-06, 03:33 PM
I was thinking about our current game. We have the following characters:

Myself, a NG, high-wisdom exalted druid.
Alchemist, CG, no common sense, likes to blow things up
Ranger, LE thanks to a helm of opposite alignment (from CN)
Barbarian, CN, has a special hatred of elves
Sorcerer, CG, half-elf, low wisdom but likes to follow directions

And it actually works. The Ranger decided that as an LE, he uses the most brutal methods available in fighting enemies but stays loyal to the party. The Barbarian makes snarky comments but generally fights with the party. The Alchemist listens and lets other characters tell him that things are a bad idea. My own Druid I decided will object to killing noncombatants or minor prisoners that don't seem that evil, but won't fuss about battle tactics and slaying helpless soldiers or unrepentant prisoners.

So what's your stories about playing or playing with an extreme alignment character, pyromaniac, etc., that actually worked?

Elric VIII
2011-01-06, 03:38 PM
Playing LE (me) in a party of Chaotic Stupid allows you to be team leader, by default. That's pretty cool.

I once played a True Neutral character in a party with both a CG and LE player. I got to play mediator, but we don't RP too well, so it didn't develop that much.

Talon Sky
2011-01-06, 04:05 PM
Any alignment can be fun if it's played well. Even CE can have wonderful, hilarious outcomes if you don't, you know, play it like the Joker from Batman.

Actually, playing the Joker would be pretty awesome too. Hmm.

RndmNumGen
2011-01-06, 04:13 PM
Any alignment can be fun if it's played well. Even CE can have wonderful, hilarious outcomes if you don't, you know, play it like the Joker from Batman.

Actually, playing the Joker would be pretty awesome too. Hmm.

Yeah. There is a difference between being completely insane yet still having particular goals like the Joker does, and the common brand of Chaotic Stupid where you attack everyone and everything just because you can.

Halae
2011-01-06, 04:17 PM
Any alignment can be fun if it's played well. Even CE can have wonderful, hilarious outcomes if you don't, you know, play it like the Joker from Batman.

Actually, playing the Joker would be pretty awesome too. Hmm.

I usually play chaotic evil in a pretty simple way - He's smart enough to realize that if he joins with a group of "Heroes" he can go and kill things horribly, get paid for it, and enjoy the love and adoration of those around him. Seems like a win-win situation.

Talon Sky
2011-01-06, 04:41 PM
I usually play chaotic evil in a pretty simple way - He's smart enough to realize that if he joins with a group of "Heroes" he can go and kill things horribly, get paid for it, and enjoy the love and adoration of those around him. Seems like a win-win situation.

Like most adventurers. On his own he's a thief and murderer, in a group he's a fellow hero with a bit of an anger issue.

Or, you know, a thief and murderer with friends, so no one wants to pick a fight anyways.

I always enjoy CN: Might save your life, might steal your horse. Let's flip for it, shall we?

TheWhisper
2011-01-06, 06:34 PM
Chaotic Evil is one of the best alignments to play.

You can do anything. You can be nice or mean, by the book or off the cuff, follow the rules or ignore them.

You can ignore the teenage girl whose kitten is caught in a tree. Or you can rescue it and play the altruistic hero if anyone's watching. Or you can rescue it and demand to be rewarded with her virginity.

You can be loyal to your friends and have trustworthy allies, but still disguise yourself as your enemies and commit horrible atrocities for which they will be blamed.

You can help the paladin rescue orphans if he promises to owe you a favor. Then invoke his promise to get him to volunteer to transport you from the jail to the courthouse... and "lose" you on the way.

You can seduce the merchant's daughter, get her to run away with you and bring the contents of her father's safe, then abandon her, pregnant, in the next town. Or you can get her to pretend she was kidnapped, and split the ransom money with her.

You can pretend to be any other alignment at all, for as long as it suits your purposes. You can fight anyone, or befriend anyone, or both, concurrently or in any order.

It's awesome.

Trekkin
2011-01-06, 09:08 PM
Personally I prefer Lawful Evil, either alone or as part of a party of LE adventurers. It's been my experience that four or five scheming masterminds create wonderfully elaborate plots and counter-plots, and generally treat people based on how useful to them they are, incorporating them into their evolving plans for the world. As an atmosphere, mutual distrust and competition can be wonderfully conducive to the sort of intra-party tension that can be put away when the story needs to move forward.

Callista
2011-01-06, 09:13 PM
I like the various flavors of Good because these people just have a built-in motivation to adventure--they want to set things right, and once they see what the BBEG can do to an innocent person, they won't need too much plot-hooking.

But Good often just ends up as the default alignment, and PCs who are played as Neutral are tagged Good. It's not a horrible thing, I guess; but if you're Good-aligned, it should mean more than just not slaughtering orphans! (Neutral people don't slaughter orphans, either...)

Kurald Galain
2011-01-07, 03:40 AM
Meh. Having your character do whatever random thing you like, whenever you feel like it gets old quick. It gets old in the first minute for the rest of the group.

I've met a few players who can pull off an evil character well, but almost everyone I've seen just uses "my character is evil" as an excuse to be a jerk at the expense of the other players.

DukeofDellot
2011-01-07, 03:58 AM
Chaotic Evil is one of the best alignments to play.

No! Bad!

...

I had a player play a Lawful Good Inquisitor as if he were a Chaotic Stupid Rogue... he fell... he fell hard when he threw a fireball at his lover... after attempting to backstab his buddy... after nearly destroying the only cure for a plague... after running around "intimidating" random townsfolk for information... after killing a small child. I may have missed a few.

But honestly, the best time I had, as far as alignments go, was when it meant something completely different. While any of the alignments can be played well, my experience has displayed that they do more discouraging of believable roleplaying than ever to they inspire. And while I'd like to get rid of them altogether... I know in my heart that it's the players themselves. Evidence given above.

Coidzor
2011-01-07, 04:23 AM
Warkitty, I envy your ability to get away with playing a character that's Exalted like that, every other treatment and interpretation I've run into has Exalted status ramping alignment as a strait-jacket up to 11.

Serpentine
2011-01-07, 04:29 AM
A fun relationship I've seen was between the Chaotic Good Elven Rogue of Elistrae(sp?) and the Lawful Good Elven Cleric of... Pelor? A human god, anyway. They met (in their backstory) when the latter rescued the former from a bunch of random zombies. He's had a fear of undead ever since (stabbing them in the kidneys does nothing!), and both a bit of a sense of indebtedness to the Cleric and general teasing comraderie. It's hard to explain it, exactly (though it's probably not so uncommon as to be hard to imagine), but imagine a staid, stately elf in human robes standing there all serious while a skinny little elf man clad in black and scarlet does cartwheels around him, and then realise that they're pretty much blood-brothers.

Coidzor
2011-01-07, 04:32 AM
...There are human robes as a class readily distinguishable from elven robes now?

Serpentine
2011-01-07, 04:35 AM
Different styles. The robes of the clergy of Pelor would be notably different to those of, say, Llolth. And this particular character was almost more human than elf, raised in a human monestary and all.

Coidzor
2011-01-07, 04:41 AM
Different styles. The robes of the clergy of Pelor would be notably different to those of, say, Llolth. And this particular character was almost more human than elf, raised in a human monestary and all.

Still, it'd be more meaningful to say "pelorite robes" than "human robes," or even the robes of some human god.

absolmorph
2011-01-07, 04:41 AM
One of my most heroic characters was, ironically, an insane, pyromaniac, necromancer CN Sorcerer.
In his (sadly short) time, he helped gather 4 plot coupons to combat the BBEG, saved the girl, helped the girl avoid marrying a gluttonous pig and joined the military.
He helped the girl avoid the marriage by poisoning the guy right before he left for the military.
He also carried a wolf skeleton in his backpack. And wore the reinforced skull of a giant turtle as a helm. And had jawbone pauldrons.
Bubs is crazy.

Oh, and he was basically the leader of the group, and I helped keep the party on the path I thought the DM expected (as a courtesy; he's still getting used to DMing). Yes, my Chaotic Neutral character helped keep the party predictable enough to help the DM. And it made sense in-character.

My bard, on the other hand, seems to be more NG, with a bit of a leaning toward LG.
As far as I know, the paladin and myself are the only Good characters in the party. And the mage was saying we should kill a creature we'd run into who was essentially harmless (in an enclosure she couldn't escape), using "I'm Neutral!" as an excuse. The paladin and myself began studiously examining the nearby statues.

Serpentine
2011-01-07, 04:43 AM
Still, it'd be more meaningful to say "pelorite robes" than "human robes," or even the robes of some human god.Does that seriously matter? I didn't have any easier way to get across "this elf is like a human!", okay?

Kuma Kode
2011-01-07, 04:50 AM
We had a Lawful Good Paladin, a Chaotic Good fighter, a true neutral druid, and the oddball : Lawful evil wizard specializing in summoning fiends.

Having been raised in a military family, he viewed the paladin and the fighter as his superior officers and went along with what they told him to do. He justified the summoning as a kind of slavery, since it robs the subject of their free will for a time. After the summoner explained to the paladin that enslaving celestials would be a terrible thing to do, and that demons and devils deserve to be robbed of their free will and forced to do good (since they do the same thing to mortals, except for evil), the party kinda clicked into place.

Any alignment can be played with any other alignment so long as everyone makes a bit of an effort to make it work. The lawful evil wizard still had no concern for others aside from his group and warned against helping people and getting involved with bandits and monsters if there was no compensation involved. He was the cold, rational mind to the paladin's warm, fuzzy "Let's save EVERYONE!" heart.

dsmiles
2011-01-07, 05:45 AM
I seem to have a penchant for the Lawful types. I'd have to say that I have a hard time playing anything Chaotic, since they always end up acting more Lawful anyway.

As far as "Alignments that Work Well" go, the best combination I've seen was in an evil party. My NE (with Lawful tendencies) Telepath, a CN pirate captain, and a CE barbarian. As the most experienced roleplayer in the group, the other two looked to me for both the "Leader" and "Face" roles (which fit very well with my character's plans for world domination). Of course, I had the telepathy variant of the psion (from Mind's Eye), so my "Face" role was actually played through the rogue (I would telepathically tell her what to say).

In other parties, alignment rarely comes into play. Everyone expects the goody-goody party to cooperate, and I've rarely seen a good-aligned party that doesn't work well together. Of course, in the group I'm with, we basically vote at the beginning of each campaign whether we want to be an evil party or a good party. We hardly ever mix extreme alignments on the good-evil axis.

JBento
2011-01-07, 06:33 AM
It's not too hard to make a party of varying alignments work together (unless one of them is a Paladin and you don't houserule - Paladins can't associate with Evil characters... or people who lie), assuming the players aren't jerks.

Evil characters have as much motivation, if not moreso, to stop the BBEG - after all, there's only one world, and if the BBEG tules it, then the Evil character can't. :smallwink: For Evil characters with more material aspirations... well, the bad guys have the best lewts :smallbiggrin:

WarKitty
2011-01-07, 08:25 AM
Warkitty, I envy your ability to get away with playing a character that's Exalted like that, every other treatment and interpretation I've run into has Exalted status ramping alignment as a strait-jacket up to 11.

I think it's a bit easier having our group introduction to exalted be via a druid rather than a paladin or something. People sort of expect you to be a bit more laid-back, and I was already playing her with a sort of "everyone has to find their own path, I can only aid" feel.

grimbold
2011-01-07, 12:00 PM
Chaotic Evil is one of the best alignments to play.

You can do anything. You can be nice or mean, by the book or off the cuff, follow the rules or ignore them.

You can ignore the teenage girl whose kitten is caught in a tree. Or you can rescue it and play the altruistic hero if anyone's watching. Or you can rescue it and demand to be rewarded with her virginity.

You can be loyal to your friends and have trustworthy allies, but still disguise yourself as your enemies and commit horrible atrocities for which they will be blamed.

You can help the paladin rescue orphans if he promises to owe you a favor. Then invoke his promise to get him to volunteer to transport you from the jail to the courthouse... and "lose" you on the way.

You can seduce the merchant's daughter, get her to run away with you and bring the contents of her father's safe, then abandon her, pregnant, in the next town. Or you can get her to pretend she was kidnapped, and split the ransom money with her.

You can pretend to be any other alignment at all, for as long as it suits your purposes. You can fight anyone, or befriend anyone, or both, concurrently or in any order.

It's awesome.

i believe you are playing CN with evil tendencies, then you can do anything. For example true CE would help the paladin until he got the orphans then kill/sodomize them all

hamishspence
2011-01-07, 12:22 PM
Evil aligned can be pretty flexible.

A character who is only evil because they behave evilly to a certain "hated group" can be indistinguishable from a Good character in general behaviour- until a member of that hated group appears on the scene.

They might be kind, generous, forgiving, altruistic, brave- but when dealing with the "hated group" they are cruel, merciless, sadistic, and so forth.

Generally, evil doesn't get penalized for Good acts. A blackguard doesn't have a code which says "lose their powers if they ever do a good act", Vile feats aren't "automatically lost if the owner does a good act" and so on.

The main exceptions being Evil paladin variants.

onthetown
2011-01-07, 12:30 PM
I find LE and LG work exceptionally well together once they get past their initial differences, and we like to have both in a party when we play.

Currently:

My LE wizard is smart enough to know that if she plots outwardly and acts obviously, the LG paladin will kill her.

The LG paladin is smart enough to know that if she pursues the wizard with zeal and tries to convert her, or kill her, they'll lose a valuable party member who's helping them.

LE wizard helps the group save the world for her own purposes (mostly that she doesn't want to die).

LG paladin works with her because she's helping the group save the world.

...and this has actually developed into a very strange friendship/alliance. After bickering over morals and whatnot for years, finally saving the world, the two of them still keep in touch and enjoy each others company. As long as they don't stray onto the topic of belief, anyway.

While they were out saving the world, yes, there were many little tiffs that had to be resolved at first. After awhile, they just fell into a habit of focusing on the task at hand and leaving their personal issues behind. And though they still acted like they hated each other, they ended up at a point where they would do anything possible to rescue the other and were both completely loyal to each other and the party.

LN is pretty nifty, too. I think all of the Lawful alignments are great in a party because some players have a tendency to misread "Chaotic" as "Let's blow up everything in our path and ruin the game". Neutral alignments can be picky and harder to play because of personal opinions.

Grelna the Blue
2011-01-07, 01:50 PM
I've played many much more neutral aligned characters, some of whom had extreme personalities, but of the extreme aligned characters I've played these were some of the most fun:

LG wizard (extra Lawful, hold the Stupid Batman wizard): renamed himself Vengeance and was given to extremely cheesy one-liners (e.g., "Tremble, villains, for Vengeance is at hand!"). He once read the riot act to a gold dragon for being insufficiently good.

LG paladin (CG swashbuckling attitude, LG rules): Loved by all except the party's female halfling rogue, who was intensely irritated by his repeated attempts to "protect" her, despite the fact that she was several levels higher than he. In the course of attempting to free a cousin's soul from the Abyss (she'd been vampirized and he'd been forced to slay her before she could take a life), the GM had him release the Demon Prince of the Undead into the mortal world (this was a GM fiat deal, not an in-character mistake). He eventually died fighting the evil he'd unwittingly unleashed. According to the GM, his extended family still secretly considers him a hero, but in wider society his name has been erased from history.

NE wizard in Ars Magica (very very evil): He had too cold a personality to be loved by most of those who knew him best, but he was still widely respected and admired. Over the course of his career, he won several positive reputations as a true hero, a leader of men, a savior of Europe, and an enforcer of Hermetic law, and was loaded down with enconiums and positions of trust. He once secretly engineered a civil war within a town solely to disguise the assassination of a single person as a casualty of that war. This was far from the only assassination he ever got away with. He was eventually murdered by his common-law wife because she discovered the truth about him by reading his mind when he was unconscious (she was looking for something that would help him). His "tragically premature" death was mourned by magi throughout Europe.

CN (slight CG tendencies) elven fighter/rogue/cleric of Erevan Ilesere: Used a hat of disguise to enhance his considerable abilities in that regard and his True Shot spell (from domain) to burnish his reputation as "elven hero." Enjoyed stunts like invisibly painting the steeple of temple of Helm pink and breaking prisoners out of the temple of Bane disguised as a priest of Bane. He was quite effective and even valuable as a party member, but lied continually and took nothing seriously whatsoever except his practical jokes.

TheWhisper
2011-01-07, 02:02 PM
i believe you are playing CN with evil tendencies, then you can do anything. For example true CE would help the paladin until he got the orphans then kill/sodomize them all

I'd have to disagree with you there.

A Chaotic Evil character might do that, if he had a reason to, but it sounds more typical of Chaotic Stupid.

The difference between "Good" and "Evil" characters isn't that Good ones do good and Evil ones do evil... it's that Good ones are not willing to do evil, and Evil ones are.

A Chaotic Evil character could rape the orphans if he wanted to. But he doesn't have to. There's no "evil principle" he has to uphold. He is evil because he lacks principles.

If he has a goal in mind (like, in this example, the paladin's word to do one service of his choice), he can of course do a "good" act. He just won't do it for an altruistic reason.

The only thing that is alien to a Chaotic Evil individual is altruism and self-sacrifice. This makes it one of the hardest alignments to violate, or to change.

Grelna the Blue
2011-01-07, 02:04 PM
i believe you are playing CN with evil tendencies, then you can do anything. For example true CE would help the paladin until he got the orphans then kill/sodomize them all

Nah, that's just CE with a helping of crazy on top. Chaotic Neutral does not mean occasionally performing atrocities and balancing it out with occasional acts of saintliness. Neutrality doesn't work that way.

Neutrals may cross the line here and there regarding evil, but nothing nearly that big. A Neutral person doesn't ever act strongly Evil and a few acts of Good here and there aren't enough to matter. A Good person can act Neutrally (selfishly) some of the time, as long as most of the time the Goodness predominates. Even a Chaotic Evil person isn't required to act vilely Evil with every single action. Some of their acts can be Neutral or even Good, because it doesn't matter in the slightest how much you donate to charity if you use your cellar as a torture dungeon for kidnaped children.

hamishspence
2011-01-07, 02:06 PM
If he has a goal in mind (like, in this example, the paladin's word to do one service of his choice), he can of course do a "good" act. He just won't do it for an altruistic reason.

The only thing that is alien to a Chaotic Evil individual is altruism and self-sacrifice. This makes it one of the hardest alignments to violate, or to change.

Unless you're Evil for a reason other than combined selfishness and lack of restraint.

Such as "extreme cruelty to enemies".

An elf, who is kindly and helpful to elves, dwarves, and other PC races- but tortures goblinoids to death- because he's consumed with hatred for them- might eventually slide to Chaotic Evil- despite the fact that most of the time he seems like a Chaotic Good character.

Psyren
2011-01-07, 02:07 PM
Ranger, LE thanks to a helm of opposite alignment (from CN)


Wait, what? Shouldn't he be LN?

WarKitty
2011-01-07, 02:14 PM
Wait, what? Shouldn't he be LN?

By RAW, the helm changes neutral to one or the other extreme.

Beelzebub1111
2011-01-07, 02:21 PM
Lawful good characters can be greedy as well.

I played a dwarf paladin who's primary goal was to receive gold. A lot of it. He wouldn't violate his principles (slay innocents, betray his allies, etc.), but an easy way to get him to do something is to pay him in gold. He would save towns from dragons, and fight evil liches, partially because they are evil, but mostly because of the big hoards of treasure that they tend to keep.

I guess my point is that Good can have slight evil tendencies, just as much as evil can have slight good tendencies.

hamishspence
2011-01-07, 02:23 PM
In older editions it tended to be phrased that way- though Neutral tendencies was the term used.

So- a character could be LG with Neutral tendencies, or CE with Neutral tendencies, or some kind of Neutral with good (or evil) tendencies.

Psyren
2011-01-07, 02:32 PM
By RAW, the helm changes neutral to one or the other extreme.

I always took that line to refer to True Neutral becoming one of the four corner alignments, not "Neutral X" or "X Neutral" losing the Neutral component. Besides, who would choose whether CN becomes LE or LG?

dsmiles
2011-01-07, 02:42 PM
I always took that line to refer to True Neutral becoming one of the four corner alignments, not "Neutral X" or "X Neutral" losing the Neutral component. Besides, who would choose whether CN becomes LE or LG?

I would let a coin choose, if I thought that it were worded that way. But I read it the same way you do.

WarKitty
2011-01-07, 02:44 PM
I always took that line to refer to True Neutral becoming one of the four corner alignments, not "Neutral X" or "X Neutral" losing the Neutral component. Besides, who would choose whether CN becomes LE or LG?

Use the same method that you'd use to determine where TN went. I guess you could rule it either way, but leaving Neutral X or X Neutral with the neutral component seems to violate the spirit of the item to me. I dunno, I hate the item and would never use it, and would retire any character it was used on until I got a cure.

TheWhisper
2011-01-07, 02:55 PM
Unless you're Evil for a reason other than combined selfishness and lack of restraint.

Such as "extreme cruelty to enemies".

An elf, who is kindly and helpful to elves, dwarves, and other PC races- but tortures goblinoids to death- because he's consumed with hatred for them- might eventually slide to Chaotic Evil- despite the fact that most of the time he seems like a Chaotic Good character.

The fact that his evil presents itself according to such a consistent code of behaviour suggests to me Lawful Evil, rather than Chaotic Evil.

Lawful Evil individuals perform evil acts as a means to promote a particular agenda... which may or may not be evil in itself. Chaotic Evil individuals are the selfish ones.

hamishspence
2011-01-07, 03:06 PM
The fact that his evil presents itself according to such a consistent code of behaviour suggests to me Lawful Evil, rather than Chaotic Evil.

Lawful Evil individuals perform evil acts as a means to promote a particular agenda... which may or may not be evil in itself. Chaotic Evil individuals are the selfish ones.

I see it as "Evil because he does Evil deeds, Chaotic because he has all the normal traits of a chaotic elf"

Not all CE beings have to be selfish. You could have a CE "Well Intentioned Extremist" just as easily as an LE one.

V, in "V for Vendetta" (the comic version) might border on this- his deeds always have an agenda- but it's a Chaotic one.

Or you could have an LE character who is very selfishly evil- yet still Lawful. A cruel and merciless- yet honest and law abiding, character who exploits others for his own profit- yet would be horrified at the idea of doing outright crime.

Psyren
2011-01-07, 07:19 PM
I would let a coin choose, if I thought that it were worded that way. But I read it the same way you do.

Come to think of it, how does TN choose? Roll d4?

And if it turns you good, do you have to make another save if you put it on again? Do you suddenly feel fuzzy happy feelings towards people you were formerly indifferent towards?

I'm reminded of the Werebear that helps old ladies across the street every full moon - enforcing any alignment other than evil tends to result in silliness.

dsmiles
2011-01-07, 07:26 PM
Come to think of it, how does TN choose? Roll d4? Yup.


And if it turns you good, do you have to make another save if you put it on again? Do you suddenly feel fuzzy happy feelings towards people you were formerly indifferent towards? IIRC, at least in older editions, it only functions once for any given character. You'd have to go through the trouble of finding another one, and then that one would work normally.
And I think I'd go with the fuzzy happy feelings. Mostly because it sounds funny. :smalltongue:


I'm reminded of the Werebear that helps old ladies across the street every full moon Totally making a BBEG that does that.

Kuma Kode
2011-01-08, 01:59 AM
Werebears: Making your life better whether you like it or not.

Rasman
2011-01-08, 02:25 AM
The most fun, but hardest time I've had playing an alignment is my True Neutral Druid.

He's all about trying to restore order to the world since we're in an apocalyptic campaign and he really doesn't care how. He's also not very fond of people, ESPECIALLY Wizards, since his family forced him to go to a magical academy at a young age against his will. (I'm pretty sure he wanted to be a bard, but I didn't get that deep into his story.) As a result of his experiences, he mostly views other people as Tools for helping him restore the natural order and is quite bitter and annoyed most of the time.

An example of his character being that we were in a battle with a Goblin army that literally numbered in the thousands, probably around Ten to Twenty Thousand at the least. They had to come in though a narrow mountain pass that was protected by a gate. Being a Planar Shepherd, I JUST developed the ability to Wildshape into an Avalancher since I chose Lamania as my plane. After a few advances, things started getting rough. I decided to WS into said Avalancher and bring down part of the mountain. As I made my way into position, I saw this darkness, a Shadow of some sort, attacking and killing Elves that were allies that had taken position on the sides of the mountain. I realized that causing this Avalanche would kill Elves, along with a great deal of the goblin army, but having seen the Elves dying to this Shadow, he rationalized that they were probably goners anyway and sealed the pass.

My DM later told me that that was almost an evil act. I explained the rationalization to him and he told me the ONLY reason he didn't consider it one was the fact that there were Evil Elves on the mountain side that had actually made attempts on the lives of party members. I asked him which one, he told me that it was the Wizard. I asked if the Evil Elves, or this Particular Elf had survived. He very bluntly laughed and said that the odds of it were 1 in 1000. I asked him if it made it an Evil act if my character was glad that the Elf Assassin had survived. He, for some reason, wouldn't give me a response. :smallbiggrin: As you can tell, he and the party Wizard don't exactly like one another.