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Blue Paladin
2011-01-06, 05:58 PM
Hello noble denizens of the Playground! I have a few questions regarding dragonborn and some specific combinations I am considering for my character's future paragon path.

First of all, my dragonbreath default choice is fire. I have taken the feat Adaptable Breath: Lightning. I am considering taking an additional Adaptable Breath (probably Poison). And I am also considering Admixture Breath at paragon. Now Admixture specifically says choose two types of damage (that you can deliver). So even though I might "know" three types (via two Adaptable Breath feats), I can only choose two at a time. Fair enough.

Now let's get weird.

Let us assume I also pick up the feat Thundering Breath. It states that now my dragon breath deals thunder and lightning. If I use Admixture Breath for, say, Fire & Lightning, does this "activate" the thunder addition to make breath that is Fire + Lightning + Thunder? Or does the feat imply that thunder is now simply another choice available for the two types chosen via Admixture Breath?

I note that, by the strictest interpretation of the wording of the Thundering Breath feat, there is no "choose" option. Does this mean that even if I were to choose Fire [and add Poison via Admixture Breath], my breath would still come out Lightning + Thunder instead? Or perhaps Lightning + Thunder [and Poison via Admixture Breath]?

A slightly different question:

If I choose Ninefold Master as my Paragon Path, my dragon breath becomes an arcane power; this means it now qualifies for a different feat: Arcane Admixture. Can I stack Arcane Admixture with Breath Admixture to make a breath with 3 different elements (or possibly 4, assuming Thundering Breath thunder type adds whenever lightning is chosen)?

A totally different question:

As a Ninefold Master, the powers reference damage that is the "same type as any type you can deal with your dragon breath". Does this necessarily mean a single damage type? Can this be interpreted as including dual-types that might be automatic (i.e. choose lightning, but Thundering Breath automatically makes Lightning + Thunder; or choose [any basic breath type], and Arcane Admixture automatically adds [some second type]; or the most liberal interpretation: whatever types you can stack onto your breath at once)?

I'm interested in gathering others' opinions and their readings of the rules. Thank you for your time and interest!

Kurald Galain
2011-01-06, 06:13 PM
As a Ninefold Master, the powers reference damage that is the "same type as any type you can deal with your dragon breath". Does this necessarily mean a single damage type?
This one is easy: yes, it is a single type.

My counter-question, though: is there any point to this? Or are you just attempting to stack as many types as possible as a thought exercise? Because you will deal more damage with a "+2 damage" feat than with a "+1 type and just hope you'll encounter a vulnerability often enough" feat. Exploiting vulns is only worth it if you can inflict those vulns.

Meta
2011-01-06, 06:29 PM
This one is easy: yes, it is a single type.

My counter-question, though: is there any point to this? Or are you just attempting to stack as many types as possible as a thought exercise? Because you will deal more damage with a "+2 damage" feat than with a "+1 type and just hope you'll encounter a vulnerability often enough" feat. Exploiting vulns is only worth it if you can inflict those vulns.

The Epic tier feats that inflict status effects based on damage type are probably worth the multiple damage types if you're going to have breath more than once in an encounter. The acid and thunder/lightning line in particular are pretty snazzy.

OP: You would get fire, lightning, and thunder.

Admixture would add w/e keyword you chose all the time, it wouldn't be an 'option.'

I would say Ninefold's feature would work based on any element that is implicitly and always on your breath. So anything from say arcane admixture that is always present would count. Something from adaptable breath or a frost implement you can channel your breath through for instance would not.

Was in a rush, so edited for grammar.

Blue Paladin
2011-01-07, 01:32 PM
My counter-question, though: is there any point to this? Or are you just attempting to stack as many types as possible as a thought exercise? Because you will deal more damage with a "+2 damage" feat than with a "+1 type and just hope you'll encounter a vulnerability often enough" feat. Exploiting vulns is only worth it if you can inflict those vulns.Not a thought exercise per se. Conceptually I already know that I'll end up taking quite a few of these feats, and wanted a little clarification on what mechanical aspects would follow from those choices. The answers might impact my power choices in the future. I do have one way to inflict a single vulnerability for an encounter; another member of my party has a way to inflict multiple vulnerabilities for a round. Really, though, damage considerations are secondary to the story elements.

Long-winded character specifics follow:In the world I am in, dragonborn are "lower" versions of dragons. In truth, they were created by true dragons as an experiment.

With their superior intellect, the true dragons could see the mounting threat of all the "mayfly races" who lived for mere decades yet could develop to (near) parity with their own draconic greatness. Indeed, every "hero" who managed to slay a dragon was reducing the draconic gene pool. Given their long natural lifespan and presumably low birthrate, every such death had an impact on the future of all dragons.

A cult sprang up among certain dragons, who twisted the idea of a coming savior (the Avatar of Tiamat) who would destroy their upstart enemies. After centuries of waiting, this cult decided to hasten the process and create a Tiamat savior instead. They would combine their genetic potential for elemental mayhem into the "ultimate" dragon, capable of wreaking acidic, freezing, fiery, shocking, poisonous destruction.

But they had no idea how to do it. After centuries of experimentation, they created a dragonlike species with a lifespan much shorter than normal: the dragonborn. Here they could take their new servitor race and apply their eugenics experiments in a fraction of the time it would take a true dragon program.

My character is a part of this experiment. My mother was a blue dragonborn and my father a red dragonborn. Hence my natural fire breath. It is a character trait of mine that I failed to manifest any trace of electrical powers.

It wasn't the end of the whole experiment or anything, as it would require three generations to combine five elements anyway. I was hardly the first failure in this venture. I was mated to a successful cold/acid hybrid dragonborn, with the hope that our whelp would be a fire/cold/acid ghidra dragonborn (who would presumably be mated with a lightning/poison hybrid to try to create the tiamat dragonborn).

Still, the failure of being an unsuccessful hybrid leaves me as somewhat of a failure among my peers and superiors. My family still loves me, but there's always the hint of being a disappointment to the lofty expectations of society at large. Even though this remains politely unmentioned, it is still palpable, and I escaped to the wandering life of adventure. The true dragons didn't care too much; they already had their egg, the next step of their project, already growing. I keep in (magical) contact with my family, so they don't worry. And the rest of the dragonborn community remains focused on their slave labor; as far as they're concerned with another failed hybrid, out-of-sight, out-of-mind.

I ended up in Elven lands across the sea, once allies of the dragons long ago, and was taken in by one of their arcane universities. I had a natural aptitude for their fire magics (Draconic Spellcaster) and became a swordmage. There, I learned philosophy and discourse. I learned to accept that I may have been in a failure in the eyes of the experimenting dragons, but that did not necessarily mean I was a failure as a dragonborn being.

And then something else happened. I used a lightning power for the first time (at level 9). Although I had known the theory for almost my entire adult life, I'd never been able to cast that spell. This will eventually lead to some point in the future when I finally use Adaptable Breath and breathe lightning.

This will lead to a period where I am elated by the revelation that I was not a failure at all. I fulfilled my purpose, even as I recognize that said purpose is not the be-all and end-all of who I am. I will have swagger and confidence.

Sometime in Paragon, I'll breathe poison and be exceptionally confused and a little scared. This would mean that I already was the ghidra dragonborn: fire, lightning, poison. And that the dragons are one step away from their tiamat dragonborn with their final egg. My egg. My whelp... could mark the end of the experiment. Which could mark the end of the dragonborn way of life.

No pressure.

Meta
2011-01-07, 02:02 PM
Not a thought exercise per se. Conceptually I already know that I'll end up taking quite a few of these feats, and wanted a little clarification on what mechanical aspects would follow from those choices. The answers might impact my power choices in the future. I do have one way to inflict a single vulnerability for an encounter; another member of my party has a way to inflict multiple vulnerabilities for a round. Really, though, damage considerations are secondary to the story elements.

Long-winded character specifics follow:In the world I am in, dragonborn are "lower" versions of dragons. In truth, they were created by true dragons as an experiment.

With their superior intellect, the true dragons could see the mounting threat of all the "mayfly races" who lived for mere decades yet could develop to (near) parity with their own draconic greatness. Indeed, every "hero" who managed to slay a dragon was reducing the draconic gene pool. Given their long natural lifespan and presumably low birthrate, every such death had an impact on the future of all dragons.

A cult sprang up among certain dragons, who twisted the idea of a coming savior (the Avatar of Tiamat) who would destroy their upstart enemies. After centuries of waiting, this cult decided to hasten the process and create a Tiamat savior instead. They would combine their genetic potential for elemental mayhem into the "ultimate" dragon, capable of wreaking acidic, freezing, fiery, shocking, poisonous destruction.

But they had no idea how to do it. After centuries of experimentation, they created a dragonlike species with a lifespan much shorter than normal: the dragonborn. Here they could take their new servitor race and apply their eugenics experiments in a fraction of the time it would take a true dragon program.

My character is a part of this experiment. My mother was a blue dragonborn and my father a red dragonborn. Hence my natural fire breath. It is a character trait of mine that I failed to manifest any trace of electrical powers.

It wasn't the end of the whole experiment or anything, as it would require three generations to combine five elements anyway. I was hardly the first failure in this venture. I was mated to a successful cold/acid hybrid dragonborn, with the hope that our whelp would be a fire/cold/acid ghidra dragonborn (who would presumably be mated with a lightning/poison hybrid to try to create the tiamat dragonborn).

Still, the failure of being an unsuccessful hybrid leaves me as somewhat of a failure among my peers and superiors. My family still loves me, but there's always the hint of being a disappointment to the lofty expectations of society at large. Even though this remains politely unmentioned, it is still palpable, and I escaped to the wandering life of adventure. The true dragons didn't care too much; they already had their egg, the next step of their project, already growing. I keep in (magical) contact with my family, so they don't worry. And the rest of the dragonborn community remains focused on their slave labor; as far as they're concerned with another failed hybrid, out-of-sight, out-of-mind.

I ended up in Elven lands across the sea, once allies of the dragons long ago, and was taken in by one of their arcane universities. I had a natural aptitude for their fire magics (Draconic Spellcaster) and became a swordmage. There, I learned philosophy and discourse. I learned to accept that I may have been in a failure in the eyes of the experimenting dragons, but that did not necessarily mean I was a failure as a dragonborn being.

And then something else happened. I used a lightning power for the first time (at level 9). Although I had known the theory for almost my entire adult life, I'd never been able to cast that spell. This will eventually lead to some point in the future when I finally use Adaptable Breath and breathe lightning.

This will lead to a period where I am elated by the revelation that I was not a failure at all. I fulfilled my purpose, even as I recognize that said purpose is not the be-all and end-all of who I am. I will have swagger and confidence.

Sometime in Paragon, I'll breathe poison and be exceptionally confused and a little scared. This would mean that I already was the ghidra dragonborn: fire, lightning, poison. And that the dragons are one step away from their tiamat dragonborn with their final egg. My egg. My whelp... could mark the end of the experiment. Which could mark the end of the dragonborn way of life.

No pressure.

This is a cool backstory. Well done sir

TheEmerged
2011-01-07, 03:34 PM
This one is easy: yes, it is a single type.

My counter-question, though: is there any point to this? Or are you just attempting to stack as many types as possible as a thought exercise? Because you will deal more damage with a "+2 damage" feat than with a "+1 type and just hope you'll encounter a vulnerability often enough" feat. Exploiting vulns is only worth it if you can inflict those vulns.

Well, there is the bit about getting the paragon feats that add additional effects based on the type of breath you're dealing... the player of the dragonborn paladin in the group I DM has toyed with doing this but can't spare the feats to do so (he's already spent several feats on his breath as it is).

Meta
2011-01-07, 04:28 PM
I such good ninjaz :smallwink:

Yakk
2011-01-07, 06:02 PM
You know you just have to get cold and acid into there by the end of epic.