Help me make an interesting tank (3.5)

[FearlessGnome]

I'm making a new character mid campaign. It's gestalt, we're level 7 (Soon 8) and the rest of the party is one Rogue//Warlock and one homebrewed ranged incarnum thing.

They are both sort of frail, (Though that may be in part because we keep facing things 3-4 CR above us) so the party could really use a tank. That said, I won't be a big stupid fighter, unless he's got something interesting on the side, roleplaying wise.

Tier 1 classes were Mysteriously killed off by god things 100 years ago(It's in the story!), but other than that, the DM is fairly flexible in terms of bending flavour/PrC reqs, etc, as long as I don't try to make myself too powerful.

My best idea so far is a Warforged Totemist//Binder, which makes for a smile, flavourwise. But... if I could make a human(oid) charismatic bad boy kind of meleeist, that appeals more.

So. Any suggestion? Two flaws, No LA buyoff, but I don't mind +1/+2 races/templates or dips, as long as it makes a PC that can both take a beating and be interesting outside of combat.

Good alignment preferred, but not necessary.

[Ernir]

Have you looked at the Crusader?

[Yora]

As a tank, you have to find a way to get enemies to attack you. While there's no particular mechanic for that, the most logical way to get this is by being the greatest threat for the enemies and fight in a way that they can't afford to turn your back at you and concentrate on the other characters for a round or two.

[AslanCross]

I usually recommend Warforged Knight/Crusader using a reach weapon, as you can take advantage of your threatened-area abilities with that and still be able to attack in close with your slam. (If ToB is available, of course) I never really understood MoI, so I can't comment on the Totemist.

[term1nally s1ck]

2 options. Get big, or get small.

If you're Big, you get reach and trip/standstill everyone, using ToB and mageslayer to make escaping nigh impossible. Simples.

If you go small, you take Knight, Blade Bravo, the Confound the Big Folk tactical feat, and Taunt. Speed through your enemies, use one of your 3 different taunts/challenges/whatever else, and laugh as they chase you around and fail to hurt you enough.

All the basic feats and bonii against big creatures rely on your opponents being 2 categories bigger than you, so just get to Tiny (Small + Reduce person) and you can apply them to medium creatures.

EDIT: 3rd option is to go with the twins race and use grapple, but that's dragon magazine, and only effective at lower levels. (Freedom of movement.)

[Escheton]

Interesting?

How about: Factotum3/dungeoncrasher fighter4//LA2 Shadowcreature (fast healing, 50% misschance and evasion)/totemist2/binder1/crusader1/swordsage1


If you can't see what that gives you combined, mention so and I'll elaborate.

This build would be rather mad as you add int too str checks and need dex for AoO's and str and con for the usual uses.

(basic)Feats: Combat expertise, Improved trip, Knockdown,Power attack, Improved bullrush, Improved binding

[graeylin]

As a tank, a duskblade isn't optimal, but for flavor, and if you are willing to be a light tank with your infantry support, try a duskblade. Good BAB, decent armor, added oomph with some spells to increase your effective power, and you won't be such a target that your DM has to increase the BBEG's to a lethal level for the other guys to impact you. If he throws something capable of knocking out a tank, it will wipe the floor with the others if it gets past you. Or, if it's balanced for challenging the rest of the party, you will roll over it every time.

As a gestalt, maybe a duskblade/warlock, or duskblade/fighter, depending on the flavor and tricks you want (warlock more soft/light, fighter a more medium tank build).

[veven]

I'm gonna go with all the guys suggesting Crusader for one side. With the Stone Power feat and the Crusader delayed damage pool you can effectively have
DR 10/-. Maneuvers are also amazing! Crusader has access to white raven maneuvers which are all about leading the battle and using advanced tactics and the like. If you are flanking with your rogue buddy, use white raven tactics and allow him to get a full sneak-attack TWICE in a round, great stuff.
Iron guard's glare is a great stance for this idea too, enemies you threaten take a -4 to hit your allies (but not you) and they are aware of it too, so if they're smart (or have an insane to hit) they will gun for you.

You will have tons of fun if you end up with Crusader on a side.

[Master_Rahl22]

I will third or fourth the Crusader suggestion. They make awesome tanks in that they can actually force enemies to target them and/or severely punish the enemy if they're ignored.

[Pechvarry]

Psychic Warriors have a lot of tanking options, though I've never seen any complete builds or ideas that don't simply rely on the share pain/psicrystal trick.

[Escheton]

crusaders and psiwarriors and duskblades are cookiedough defenders.
Plain, simple and yummy, and likely to give you a tummy ache. If not just because you stabbed yourself in the stomach out of sheer boredom.

Their options and flavor are only slightly above the straight fighter.
And I do believe the OP asked for something interesting.

Come on, time for weird builds that drip with flavor that will function as tanks.

[AslanCross]

I'm not sure how the duskblade is a defender. It's hard to use heavy armor right out, you've got a d8 hit die, and you have very few (if any) defensive spells. Not to mention their main shtick is channeling damaging spells through their sword. How does one optimize a duskblade for defense?

[Torvon]

Hellreaver is probably the most effectiv tanking PrC. Insane selfhealing, very nice abilities.

I play a halfling paladin/knight + Hellreaver, around level 8. A super funny character to play outside of combat (loud, drunk, not the smartest; little guy, lots of metal, sitting on a poor riding dog who has to carry him around), and a very viable tank (mass taunt, knight has great abilities, paladin gives him great defenses, etc.).

I am playing him without spells (holy warrior ACF), so I can drop wisdom (you basically need all other stats).

ta-ta
E.

[Urpriest]

How about Dread Necromancer | Crusader? Heal yourself, heal others, tank stuff, have an army of undead to clog up the battlefield, be dark and mysterious, use False Life.

[Dr.Epic]

I've always wanted to make a halfling barbarian that goes Bear Warrior just to have NPCs see this small halfling turn into a giant bear. If you think halfling would be too much to deal with with the -2 str, then go dwarf: +2 con, and the principle is the same (small to large).

[Saint GoH]

Might I suggest the first build of Can't Touch This? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6970738&postcount=3)

Person Man has a great write up here with some decent builds, and Can't touch this is an amazing one (I think). Plus if you do crusader on one side you will be doubly cool.

[nedz]

Spirit Shamen//Ranger(TWF)
You use a Quarterstaff which you buff with the Druid spells (Shillaligh,Brambles,Entangling Staff), you also have useful personal buffs, and a few healing spells as well as stealth based spells. The Bite series are also quite intersting.
Ranger gives you excellent Stealth and Tracking.
Spirit Shamen gives you an interesting spiritual side.

Spirit Shamen//Monk
is also interesting since Quarterstaff is a Monk weapon with which you can Flurry.

Both of these have high DPR because the Buffs available are solid.

You can substitute Druid for Spirit Shamen but that would seem to be too high a tier for your party ?

[Lans]

Crusader//Incarnate with 3 levels of knight for its hindering terrain ability works pretty well.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Crusader//Incarnate with 3 levels of knight for its hindering terrain ability works pretty well.

Quoted for truthiness.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If you want to use templates, a strong choice would be Water Orc (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#racesOfWater) with both Dragonborn of Bahamut (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060105b&page=1) and Mineral Warrior (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e), taking Dragonborn first and gaining Mineral Warrior before 6th level. Get the Heart aspect with Entangling Exhalation, or with the Wings aspect you'll still gain a fly speed at 6th level. For only a +1 LA that gets Str +6, Dex -2, Con +8, Int -4, Wis -4, Cha -4, +3 natural armor, DR 8/Adamantine, Darkvision, Dragonborn traits, 30 ft. land and swim speeds, 15 ft. burrow speed, and at sixth level 30 ft. fly speed.

You'll probably need to spend a feat on Reinforced Wings and stick to medium armor (mithral full plate) to be able to fly when necessary, otherwise you'll be stuck in nothing but light armor. Crusader//Dragonfire Adept would be my first choice for that, use Entangling Exhalation as often as necessary to keep every opponent debuffed and they'll be more likely to go after you. Be sure to get Extra Granted Maneuver and you'll probably want Stone Power as well. Don't worry about arcane spell failure of armor for your invocations, just pick all-day buffs that can be used repeatedly outside of combat until they work.

A Dvati from Dragon Compendium would also be a strong choice for a Crusader//Dragonfire Adept. Dvati are twins who share a soul, it's basically one character with two bodies. They could take turns using entangling breath weapons and attacking, one could use Stone Power while the other heals him with Devoted Spirit strikes, one can use the Shield Block maneuver to boost the other's AC, etc. Be sure to get the Endure Exposure invocation to use on your allies every day so they won't be affected by your breath attacks.

[Greenish]

Spirit Shaman//Ranger(TWF)You know, I really like that one. Why haven't I thought of it? :smallbiggrin:

With focus to buffs, you can skimp on charisma and avoid MAD.

[Doomboy911]

Frenzied berserker Complete warrior five levels and you can go into the negatives and you don't die until you stop frenzying level 10 you can leave a frenzy not tired. Take some levels in wrecker (quintessential fighter 2) and get yourself a wallblade. You will do damage and you will take it. Also with a frenzy (greater than a rage you get a plus ten to your strength) it occurs when you are attacked, fall into a trap or a spell hits you. So if you want five levels frenzied berserker five levels wrecker.

Make sure you make your wallblade powerful you can have a real low ac because it really doesn't matter.

[nedz]

You know, I really like that one. Why haven't I thought of it? :smallbiggrin:

With focus to buffs, you can skimp on charisma and avoid MAD.
I reckon Cha should be 10 or 12 (there are a couple of interesting feats which require Chastise 4/day)

Elf is an interesting Racial choice.
Basically they get Alertness which stacks with Alertness; now Spirit Shamen 1 gets Alertness for free, your going to have high Wis and you ought to be maxing Spot and prob Listen. Guess who's unlikely to ever be suprised?

Elf also open up Seeker of the Misty Isle which could be taken on either side.
Spirit Shamen 6/Seeker of the Misty Isle 9/Spirit Shamen +5//Ranger 20
Gets you more stealth features, Travel Domain, and (at 13th) a minor Arcane threat due to the Magic Domain.

Good Feat choices for Spirit Shamen are Spontaneous Healer and Spontaneous Summoner. These give you more options for your high level spells. Its just a shame you can't get Spontaneous Domain as well.

Its quite a good multi-threat tank.

[Pechvarry]

I've been thinking of a few different tank-type things in my brain recently, but I haven't put any of them together and trimmed the fat. So enjoy this brain dump:

-Binders get Savnok which, in addition to giving you free heavy armor, gives you lots of benign transpositions.
-Binders can get Halphax as of level 15 (ick), with the ability to raise walls and shelters as he sees fit. Also, some nifty DR and an ability to take one opponent out of the fight.
-Earth Devotion makes rough terrain out of turn attempts.
-Deepstone Sentinel makes rough terrain wherever they go (ECL11) and can raise 5' columns at will (ECL14).
-Everyone loves Dungeoncrasher.
-Factotum 8 gets extra standard actions.

So there you have it. I have in mind an extremely positional tank; partitioning the battlefield, making rough terrain, swapping places with allies. Dungeoncrasher would be cool just to make use of all these walls, and all of the wall-type moves are standard actions (hence factotum).

Without thinking through the perfect level matchups, I guess it would be something like Dwarf Warblade 1/ Fighter 6/ Factotum 8/ Deepstone Sentinel 5 // Binder 15 / something 5.

Binder could be lower (though at least 8th) with prestige classes to increase soul binding, such a Knight of the Sacred Seal with Savnok as your patron. If you wanted Halphax as your patron, you'd have to wait. This build also lacks turning attempts for earth devotion, though Tenebrous could feasibly remedy that, depending on if DM allows it.

[EnnPeeCee]

If evil is an option, a Paladin of Tyranny / Blackguard gets CHA to saves twice. Add in Hexblade 3 to get CHA to saves 3 times against spells and mettle. Gain evasion from somewhere, and with a decent Charisma you can basically become immune to spells that allow saves.

Just a thought, since your saves should be important to you as a tank.

Edit: Fixed.

[Bang!]

It could be neat to try Egoist//Incarnate. Each is a capable tank in its own right, despite 1/2 BA and small HD. The two classes would compete for the first swift action per fight, but after that, Egoist would become the active class (using swift actions to pump out buffs) and Incarnate would be largely passive (providing defenses and bonuses without action investment).

Stats requirements might start a bit crazy, but the Egoist gets polymorphs and buffs to make them less significant. You might burn a feat to base Egoist manifesting off of Con (like in 3.0), homebrew another stat-consolidation feat or you could just avoid powers and soulmelds that grant saving throws and focus on Con and self-buffs instead.

It should be pretty effective, and it would at least look pretty significantly different from standard tank builds.