PDA

View Full Version : Master of the 9~Is it worth it?



Tvtyrant
2011-01-07, 01:15 PM
Master of the 9 always sounds really awesome to me; like the ultimate master of the blade sorta thing. The only problem is it seems sorta... Underpowered for having that kind of name. So I want to know if people think its worth it and why.

(PS its from ToB, just in case there is another Master of the 9 somewhere.)

Reynard
2011-01-07, 01:21 PM
If you qualify, it's not actually that bad. You gain new maneuvers known (from any discipline) and maneuvers readied at a super fast rate, and get a lesser version of the Warblade capstone at second level.

Bang!
2011-01-07, 01:29 PM
It's very nice with the Crusader's recharge.

Tvtyrant
2011-01-07, 02:29 PM
So go into it from Crusader... Makes sense, though a Swordsage is more fluffy for the prestige class. My real question is if there is an actual point to the class; do you gain any large rewards for being one as opposed to a straight Crusader?

Douglas
2011-01-07, 02:39 PM
Entering from Crusader is the most difficult way to satisfy prereqs, but it is the most powerful. The two biggest limits on Crusader power relative to other ToB classes are A) limited selection of disciplines and B) low number of maneuvers readied/granted. Master of Nine blows away both of them, opening up maneuver selection to ALL disciplines and doubling (or almost doubling at high levels) maneuvers readied over the course of 5 levels. This results in enormously increased versatility, much higher chance of the exact maneuver you want being granted immediately, the ability to prepare circumstantial maneuvers without cutting into your power too much, and the ability to use up to 3 maneuvers (boost/counter, strike, odd-ball move action maneuver) every round without running out - with Extra Granted Maneuver the entire list refreshes every 3 rounds.

As a Swordsage, it's flavorful and you have an easier time qualifying for lots of high level maneuvers from many different disciplines, and you have the easiest time satisfying the class's prereqs, but it's not so useful for power.

With Warblade, it's somewhere in the middle.

Myth
2011-01-07, 02:45 PM
I think it's viewed as weak when compared to the Eternal Blade. Straight on it's own it's still on par with the better stuff published in books such as CW, CAdv, PHBII and the likes.

Eldariel
2011-01-07, 02:46 PM
Counterstance + Double Stance is v. good for action economy. There's a number of Stances that do useful stuff (Immortal Fortitude, Stance of Alacrity, Aura of Perfect Order and such are all great tradeables) and switching them without action (with Alacrity) is v. convenient. Oh, and you get a Counter out of the deal too. Like One with Shadow. Also, the offense it offers is decent, if not awe-inspiring. Time Stands Still with full Mastery of the Nine hurts quite a bit.

Douglas
2011-01-07, 02:55 PM
Counterstance + Double Stance is v. good for action economy. There's a number of Stances that do useful stuff (Immortal Fortitude, Stance of Alacrity, Aura of Perfect Order and such are all great tradeables) and switching them without action (with Alacrity) is v. convenient.
Ah, yes, that's another big advantage. If you can get your fort save high enough, Stance of Alacrity + Counter Stance + Immortal Fortitude + Dual Stance is extremely powerful.

1 hit that would drop me, fort save says no.
2nd hit that would drop me, fort save says no.
3rd hit that would drop me, fort save says no but IF ends.
4th hit that would drop me, I use a counter and - SURPRISE - IF is back up. Fort save says no.
5th hit that would drop me, fort says no.
6th hit that would drop me, fort says no but IF ends.
7th hit that would drop me, oh hey Stance of Alacrity says that earlier counter didn't count as an action. Here comes another counter. Oh, and IF is back again, fort save says I'm still up.
8th hit...
9th hit... Ok, now I'm finally out of "fort save = no" for this round. Hit me one more time and I'll actually go down. Oh, and this was all in one round.

Now, pulling this off requires getting 4 levels in Master of Nine, 2 8th level stances, and a high fort save, but if you can manage it...

Eldariel
2011-01-07, 03:00 PM
Now, pulling this off requires getting 4 levels in Master of Nine, 2 8th level stances, and a high fort save, but if you can manage it...

If you tempo your levels properly, you can gain all this from Mot9 alone; need to get 2nd level when you'd get 8th level maneuvers. Then you get the second stance on level 17 (assuming you didn't lose any Initiator Levels). Of course, with a feat or an item you could do it on 15.

Draz74
2011-01-07, 05:21 PM
I actually think Warblade, rather than Crusader, is the strongest candidate class for Master of Nine.

It doesn't get as much of a boost in power as the Crusader just by opening up its options to all nine disciplines, no. But in my book, the real power of Master of Nine is the +5 Readied Maneuvers, and the Warblade (with almost as good a recharge system as the Crusader, plus a smaller number of readied maneuvers) benefits from this the most.

Doesn't hurt that you can pick up Blind-Fight and Improved Initiative as bonus Feats, either. Makes the PrC much easier to qualify for.

nyarlathotep
2011-01-07, 05:33 PM
I actually think Warblade, rather than Crusader, is the strongest candidate class for Master of Nine.

It doesn't get as much of a boost in power as the Crusader just by opening up its options to all nine disciplines, no. But in my book, the real power of Master of Nine is the +5 Readied Maneuvers, and the Warblade (with almost as good a recharge system as the Crusader, plus a smaller number of readied maneuvers) benefits from this the most.

Doesn't hurt that you can pick up Blind-Fight and Improved Initiative as bonus Feats, either. Makes the PrC much easier to qualify for.

I would personally say crusader benefits the most due to a small quirk in how they interact with prestige classes. Whenever a prestige class gives an extra maneuver readied it also increases the crusader's number of starting maneuvers each time they recharge. So taking master of the nine doesnt increase the time between recharges at all for them and gives them a pool of readied maneuvers almost as large as a warblade's every time they recharge, which doesnt take an action the way it does for a warblade.

That being said it is still a very powerful and flavourful option for warblades and unless you are going eternal blade is worth looking into.

Eldariel
2011-01-07, 05:45 PM
I would personally say crusader benefits the most due to a small quirk in how they interact with prestige classes. Whenever a prestige class gives an extra maneuver readied it also increases the crusader's number of starting maneuvers each time they recharge. So taking master of the nine doesnt increase the time between recharges at all for them and gives them a pool of readied maneuvers almost as large as a warblade's every time they recharge, which doesnt take an action the way it does for a warblade.

It's a trade-off either way: Crusader is better in the long run but Warblade is better the first turn (especially). Depends on how you ready maneuvers but e.g. I don't tend towards too much redundancy, so I prefer maximizing my initial selection to ensure perfect sequencing rather than winning the extra action two turns in (which is huge, but since the first two turns usually decide the encounter, feels like the lesser price).

Tvtyrant
2011-01-07, 06:27 PM
It's a trade-off either way: Crusader is better in the long run but Warblade is better the first turn (especially). Depends on how you ready maneuvers but e.g. I don't tend towards too much redundancy, so I prefer maximizing my initial selection to ensure perfect sequencing rather than winning the extra action two turns in (which is huge, but since the first two turns usually decide the encounter, feels like the lesser price).

In a Slog type encounter which one do you think would be better? Say an encounter that lasts ten rounds with no time to rest, using high HP mooks?

Psyren
2011-01-07, 07:15 PM
Master of Nine is my favorite, just for the name. I mean come on. He mastered all 9 styles!

He could start like... a big-ass school or something, by himself :smallsmile: