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BiblioRook
2011-01-07, 03:25 PM
After nearly three or four years I finally find myself in a D&D campaign again. After so long, not only am I alittle rusty, but I'm playing a Cleric for the first time after previously being more of a Rogue guy (both at the party's request and I kinda wanted to play one anyways for a while now) and would like some advice on what to do with it. I intend to just be a support character (buffs and defense), but I also want to avoid just becoming a heal-bot.

I'm usually not that concerned with optimization, more preferring fun stuff over useful stuff. However in the campaign I'm in we're being put up against another actual party which is known for being rather overkill and munchkiny and I felt it wouldn't hurt to try to get an edge in somewhere. <.<

As it is, I'm starting at 4th level in Forgotten Realms and really just don't know where to even begin, be it what spells to use or feats to take, etc. I think my GM is pretty open as far as books go, though he probably would prefer it if I try to keep it within reason as he's pretty new to running a game.

Nohwl
2011-01-07, 03:40 PM
are there any house rules?

assuming you can go for a human cloistered cleric, see if your dm allows the planning and undeath domains, pick up persistent spell, divine metamagic persistent spell, trade the knowledge domain for knowledge devotion, and maybe extra turning for every flaw your dm allows you to take. for the 3rd level feat invisible spell could work.

BiblioRook
2011-01-07, 03:52 PM
No house rules that I know of.

The cloistered cleric actually really interests me as it is actually along the lines of what I imagined my character to be like anyways :smallsmile:
(THe god I was thinking of choosing was even going to be Oghma, though we will have to see about that due to the domains you suggested)

Darius
2011-01-07, 03:55 PM
I am sure that I cannot do justice optimization-wise to clerics as those who have come before me have done, but there are a number of tricks I like to use.

1) divine metamagic + persistent spell = keep your bless and other spells up 24 hrs. allowing for less buffing time needed
2) heavy armor + shield - tank up front
3) heal bot with a wand of lesser vigor to save your spells for more important things

The fun depends on which god(dess) and PrClass you wish to take. Making a dweomerkeeper of Mystra (using a few well choiced feats and domain choices to not need a dip in arcane) may be what you want to if you wish to go ubercasting route.

Edit: I just noticed you are looking at Ohgma - who gets Planning as a domain - will make Persistent Spell that much easier.

BiblioRook
2011-01-07, 04:05 PM
I really would avoid front-lining it if possible. Call me a coward, but after years of playing rogues and archers I've always felt more comfortable towards the back.

Actually, to that end, while poking around on my own for ideas I came across the Reach Spell feat, which sounds pretty handy so as I could avoid getting to close to heavy attach should the need arises (pesky touch spells). But I don't really understand the 'uses a spell slot # higher', unless it means just what it says which means I wouldn't be able to use it with my highest level spells? (which in my case would just be 2nd level anyways). I ask because it's something that is mentioned on the other metamagic feats that have been suggested.

To be honest, I'm not even really sure just what the real advantage to an invisible cleric spell would be.

Bang!
2011-01-07, 04:10 PM
DMM Persist cleric builds are boring.

For Oghma, maybe focus on summons a with a modified list drawing from various effigy creatures?

prufock
2011-01-07, 04:21 PM
I don't really understand the 'uses a spell slot # higher', unless it means just what it says which means I wouldn't be able to use it with my highest level spells? (which in my case would just be 2nd level anyways). I ask because it's something that is mentioned on the other metamagic feats that have been suggested.

Yeah, probably not worth taking at this level, as you'd only be able to use it on 0-level spells. However, you could get a Lesser Reach metamagic rod that would allow you to do it 3x a day without changing the level of the spell (so you'd be able to use it on 1st- and 2nd-level spells) and save yourself a feat.

(EDIT: Actually, it's only a +1, so you could use it on 1st-level without the rod anyway, but not 2nd-level.)

BiblioRook
2011-01-07, 07:08 PM
I know these are probably not the greatest domains to chose from, but I was wondering that out of Luck, Travel, and Trickery which would be the most useful two?
It's kinda a choice between rerolling rolls, flying/teleporting, and turning invisible. All three sound pretty fun (and all three available under the current god of my choice) <.<;

Trekkin
2011-01-07, 07:18 PM
I've heard good things about Trickery and Luck; not so much Travel.

Augmented Lurk
2011-01-07, 07:33 PM
The Travel Domain is excellent, actually.

Gavinfoxx
2011-01-07, 07:37 PM
Since you are in FR, you will need to specifically CHOOSE a god, *and* to generally get the canonical domains from that god.

However, one of the strongest cleric builds in D&D is, luckily, a FR build.

Google "Cheater of Mystra".

Gabe the Bard
2011-01-07, 08:17 PM
Travel domain is one of the best domains in the game. The domain power is extremely useful, since it's basically a contingent Freedom of Movement that can get you out of a lot of tight spots.

Luck also has a great domain power. That one reroll per day can really save your life. A lot of the spells are already on the cleric list, but they are also very useful. (Aid is a decent buff spell at 4th level).

The Trickery domain depends more on your character concept. The domain power may not be very useful to you, and all of the domain spells can probably be cast by your wizard anyway.
(An invisible cleric could be good for buffing, summoning, and emergency healing, but again, your wizard can also cast invisibility on you.)

The Reach Spell feat actually has a pretty short range, though it depends on the average size of a battlefield in your game. You won't be able to use it immediately, since you need to prepare a spell two levels higher (so a 0-level spell is prepared with a 2nd-level spell slot). Most Metamagics are best used with Metamagic Rods, once you start getting them.

We have a cleric in our group who is a buffer/archer. She actually used most of her feats to help her archery (point blank shot, zen archery, etc.). She would cast Bless and Prayer before a battle and then go to town with her longbow. Now that we're at higher levels, she has a laundry list of buffs that she casts before every fight.

AslanCross
2011-01-07, 08:22 PM
Travel and Trickery would be great together. Trickery has a very good domain list, although its granted power is less impressive.

BiblioRook
2011-01-08, 02:53 PM
Does anyone have advice as to spells I should keep in mind?

Fable Wright
2011-01-08, 03:02 PM
Actually, if you want to cut down on healing spells consumed, Draconic Aura (Vigor) could be useful as a feat. It essentially gives your entire party fast healing up to 1/2 max health, which lets you get more mileage out of your healing magic. It also automatically stabilized unconscious or disabled party members without wasting your spells or using your move actions to get up close to the melee fighters.

Jack_Simth
2011-01-08, 03:07 PM
But I don't really understand the 'uses a spell slot # higher', unless it means just what it says which means I wouldn't be able to use it with my highest level spells? (which in my case would just be 2nd level anyways). I ask because it's something that is mentioned on the other metamagic feats that have been suggested.
That's correct. There's ways around it (Divine Metamagic being one), but in general, if it says it uses a slot two levels higher, that means if you're trying to Reach a 2nd level spell, you'll need a 4th level spell slot to do it.

To be honest, I'm not even really sure just what the real advantage to an invisible cleric spell would be.For the most part, it's less advantageous and more funny. Invisible Spell (Wall of Stone) is downright hilarious. Where you get into useful effects is things like Invisible Spell (Obscurring Mist): Negate See Invisibility with a 1st level spell slot (if they can see invisible things, the mist gets in the way, and they can't see things)

Tvtyrant
2011-01-08, 03:18 PM
Let the musical begin!

Best domains in core in general:
Travel~Teleport, FoM, Fly. These things are good.
Magic~Get UMD and some good spells. Holy Utility Batman!
Trickery~Rogue powers activate, form of a Cleric!
Knowledge~You get all of the knowledge skills as class skills.
Earth~ Iron Body (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/ironBody.htm) is persistable.
Luck~Reroll a fumble 1 a day, and some very nice spells.

The others have their uses, but those are generally the best. And one day I will post that guide :P

Nohwl
2011-01-08, 03:18 PM
i was thinking more along the lines of invisible summoned monsters when i suggested invisible spell.

BiblioRook
2011-01-08, 03:28 PM
Let the musical begin!

Best domains in core in general:
Travel~Teleport, FoM, Fly. These things are good.
Magic~Get UMD and some good spells. Holy Utility Batman!
Trickery~Rogue powers activate, form of a Cleric!
Knowledge~You get all of the knowledge skills as class skills.
Earth~ Iron Body (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/ironBody.htm) is persistable.
Luck~Reroll a fumble 1 a day, and some very nice spells.

The others have their uses, but those are generally the best. And one day I will post that guide :P

I guess you really have to give props for Oghma, all but two of those fall under his domain :smallbiggrin:

Jack_Simth
2011-01-08, 03:51 PM
i was thinking more along the lines of invisible summoned monsters when i suggested invisible spell.
That's definitely another useful effect. What'll really bake your noodle is when you do an Invisible Spell (True Resurrection) later on down the road, with no body.

Keld Denar
2011-01-08, 04:31 PM
I like counterspelling on my clerics. Fiendish Codex II has Divine Defiance, a feat that lets you counterspell as an immediate action by burning a TU attempt. Keep a couple Dispel Magics prepped and you can counter anything. If you really want to optimize it, nab the Inquisition domain granted power (either through a dip in Church Inquisitor or via the Planar Touchstone feat in the Planar Handbook) for a +4 untyped bonus on dispel checks, then take Arcane Mastery which lets you take 10 on caster level checks. Dispel Magic causes a dispel check, which is a special kind of caster level check, and thus you can use Arcane Mastery. With just AM and the Inquisition domain, you'll be able to automatically counterspell any caster up to 3 levels higher than you. If you nab a Dispelling Chord (MIC) for 1000g, you'll be able t automatically counterspell anyone up to 5 levels higher than you. Thats pretty badass. Get a Ring of Greater Counterspells and a Ring of Spell Battle (MIC both) and you'll have even more shananigans for wrecking your foes offensive spells. Also, the spell Battlemagic Perception works very similar to Divine Defiance as well.

BiblioRook
2011-01-08, 04:40 PM
I do like the idea of things that let me swap out Turn Undead. As fine as that ability is I imagine it's not particularly useful when there isn't any undead around.

Elric VIII
2011-01-08, 04:43 PM
It is entirely possible to play a stealthy skillmonkey Cleric by taking a dip into a class that grants the skills you want (such as rogue), taking Able Learner, and Cloistered Cleric.

- You can replicate stealthiness with spells such as Iron Silence for 1hr/level no ACP on hide/move silently.

- Various spells such as Find Trap and Augery can aid in scouting.

- Grave Strike allows you to sneak attack undead. Summons allow you to create flankers.

- Black Flame Zealot and Shadowbane Stalker advance casting and SA.

Just some food for thought if you wish to play something closer to the class with which you are familiar.

EDIT: Shadowbane stalkeris in Comp Adventurer and Blackflame Zealot is in Comp Divine. You connot take both classes since the alignment requirements conflict, but the stalker is definately the better of the two.

Gavinfoxx
2011-01-08, 05:22 PM
You don't want to *swap out* Turn Undead, you want to keep it and just spend it on things other than Turning Undead.

Tvtyrant
2011-01-08, 06:41 PM
It sounds like you want to go the caster route; I guess this based on your previous Rogue experience. So I would suggest the following:
Magic Domain and Trickery Domain~Gets you utility like a Rogue.
Able Learner Feat~Keep your skills maxed
Spells~ I suggest buffing and debuffing for lower levels.

Level 1: Get a wand of CLW
~Bless grants an across the board +1 to hit.
~Bane reduces the enemy by the same.
~Obscuring Mist grants concealment, which wrecks any rogue types.

Level 2:Lots of good spells here, basically your utility bread and butter.
~Aid, Animal Bonus', Resist Energy~Buffs
~Lesser Restoration!~Status Healing
~Enthrall, Hold Person, Darkness, Silence~Control Spells
~Find Traps, Status, Augury, Make Whole, Shatter~Utility

Essentially a Cleric who doesn't want to mix it up is going to work on Buffs, Debuffs, Control and Utility.

Magic Domain lets you use Wizard utility items as well as Cleric ones; so Find Trap and Detect Secret Door are both open to you, and Knock and all of the other spells a Batman needs. The Trickery will let you play as a Rogue despite being a Cleric via Invisibility. So out of combat you can play as a Rogue type, sneaking and undoing traps, and then use control magic in battle to lock down opponents.

Runestar
2011-01-08, 08:08 PM
You don't want to *swap out* Turn Undead, you want to keep it and just spend it on things other than Turning Undead.

If you are going to dump cha, may as well swap out turn undead. However, apart from the dwarf's smite giants ACF, I am not aware of other alternatives.

I am a fan of war and strength myself, though that's because I enjoy melee clerics, and complete champion has the ordained champion and that reserve feat which increases my damage based on the highest war domain spell prepared. :smallbiggrin:

Although the strength domain's power isn't very good, I find that inconsequential since I typically swap it out for the ability to spontaneously cast restoration spells (dungeonscape).

Complete champion has some useful feats like imbued healing and protection devotion. The touch of healing reserve feats effectively lets you heal everyone back the 1/2 life for free.

Some useful lower lv spells I noticed.

Shield other (you can be a tank without entering melee)
Close wounds (SPC)
Benediction (CC, essentially luck domain)

Jack_Simth
2011-01-08, 08:29 PM
It sounds like you want to go the caster route; I guess this based on your previous Rogue experience. So I would suggest the following:
Magic Domain and Trickery Domain~Gets you utility like a Rogue.
Able Learner Feat~Keep your skills maxed
You don't actually find traps this way, though, without going dipping.

Mind you, the Kobold domain gives trapfinding....

CockroachTeaParty
2011-01-08, 08:38 PM
Clerics also make fantastic archers. A little feat starved, but what cleric build isn't? Being a human or an elf (with the Elf domain!) helps take the edge off a bit.

Kalaska'Agathas
2011-01-08, 08:49 PM
I played an Shadow Creature Grey Elf Cloistered Cleric 5/Seeker of the Misty Isle 10 - with two flaws and without trading out Domains for Devotions I had Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, DMM Persist, Knowledge Devotion, Travel Devotion, Zen Archery, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and Rapid Shot - and that was a pretty darn effective archer. Had better than decent skills, Medium Armor, decent BAB, pretty good saves, and CL 15 (text trumps table, etc. etc.). I'd likely have finished out the build with more Cloistered Cleric, if only for the skills. My domains were Planning, Knowledge, Trickery, Travel, and Magic. I had a lot of fun, needless to say.

Tvtyrant
2011-01-08, 10:02 PM
You don't actually find traps this way, though, without going dipping.

Mind you, the Kobold domain gives trapfinding....

They have a trap finding spell; why would they need it as a class feature? I even referenced that in the same post :P

War and Strength domains are kind of awful IMO. War gets you the Word spells and a weapon proficiency. The Strength domain is better, but your damage output in melee is high enough that the ability is kinda wasted. The Bigsby spells are nice, but... You have better things to do with a 9th level spell then grapple someone for 2d6+12 damage.

Runestar
2011-01-08, 10:20 PM
War and Strength domains are kind of awful IMO. War gets you the Word spells and a weapon proficiency. The Strength domain is better, but your damage output in melee is high enough that the ability is kinda wasted. The Bigsby spells are nice, but... You have better things to do with a 9th level spell then grapple someone for 2d6+12 damage.

As mentioned, I typically give up the domain power for spontaneous restoration, so how good or crappy the power is is irrelevant to me. In fact, the crappier the better, that way, I don't feel so bad about giving it up.:smalltongue:

The domain spells are pretty good, especially at lower lvs. War powers holy warrior (so I don't plan on casting war domain spells ever), and paves for way for entry into ordained champion. :smallsmile:

Greenish
2011-01-08, 10:21 PM
If you nab a Dispelling Chord (MIC) for 1000g, you'll be able t automatically counterspell anyone up to 5 levels higher than you.Dispelling Chord is a swift action to activate, and only lasts until the end of your turn. How do you benefit from it with Divine Defiance?

Tvtyrant
2011-01-08, 10:35 PM
As mentioned, I typically give up the domain power for spontaneous restoration, so how good or crappy the power is is irrelevant to me. In fact, the crappier the better, that way, I don't feel so bad about giving it up.:smalltongue:

The domain spells are pretty good, especially at lower lvs. War powers holy warrior (so I don't plan on casting war domain spells ever), and paves for way for entry into ordained champion. :smallsmile:

Oh, well if there is a Prc class involved I agree they are fine. I personally would:take Earth and maybe Plant if I was going melee Cleric; then platemail, heavy metal shield, Barkskin, Iron Body, Divine Power, Righteous Might, Greater Magic Vestment, and Greater Magic Weapon. You are now a Large Iron caster with blanket immunities, a high AC, and large sized clubs for hands in case you don't have a good weapon. The Iron Giant lives!

Runestar
2011-01-08, 10:56 PM
Oh, well if there is a Prc class involved I agree they are fine. I personally would:take Earth and maybe Plant if I was going melee Cleric; then platemail, heavy metal shield, Barkskin, Iron Body, Divine Power, Righteous Might, Greater Magic Vestment, and Greater Magic Weapon. You are now a Large Iron caster with blanket immunities, a high AC, and large sized clubs for hands in case you don't have a good weapon. The Iron Giant lives!

Thing is I rarely ever have time to layer on so many buffs (my DM bans DMM). Magic vestment/weapon are givens, considering their long duration. Usually divine power+quickened divine favour+move in the 1st round, and commence whacking in the 2nd. By the time I finish with all the other buffs, combat is probably already over. :smalltongue:

BiblioRook
2011-01-09, 10:17 PM
You don't want to *swap out* Turn Undead, you want to keep it and just spend it on things other than Turning Undead.

Bad choice of words on my part, I didn't mean I wanted to get rid of the ability completely but rather I like the option of trading out turn attempts for other things as needed.


Another question though. When people talk about things like Knowledge devotion they refer to it as 'giving up the domain'. DO you actually have to lose that domain to take advantage of that new ability?

Tvtyrant
2011-01-09, 10:19 PM
Thing is I rarely ever have time to layer on so many buffs (my DM bans DMM). Magic vestment/weapon are givens, considering their long duration. Usually divine power+quickened divine favour+move in the 1st round, and commence whacking in the 2nd. By the time I finish with all the other buffs, combat is probably already over. :smalltongue:

lol too true; the best option is to have the Rogue find the enemy and then buff right before the fight.

Darius
2011-01-11, 02:24 PM
Level 1: Get a wand of CLW
~Bless grants an across the board +1 to hit.
~Bane reduces the enemy by the same.
~Obscuring Mist grants concealment, which wrecks any rogue types.

Level 2:Lots of good spells here, basically your utility bread and butter.
~Aid, Animal Bonus', Resist Energy~Buffs
~Lesser Restoration!~Status Healing
~Enthrall, Hold Person, Darkness, Silence~Control Spells
~Find Traps, Status, Augury, Make Whole, Shatter~Utility


Instead of a CLWounds wand, I would go with a Lesser Vigor Wand - you are guaranteed 9 hit points of healing per charge instead of: nuts, 2 hit points back to you.

Stay away from reach feat IMHO and stick with persist and wait until you can DMM persist mass lesser vigor on your party - turns everyone into Trollish goodness.

Greenish
2011-01-11, 02:46 PM
Another question though. When people talk about things like Knowledge devotion they refer to it as 'giving up the domain'. DO you actually have to lose that domain to take advantage of that new ability?You can swap out a domain for it's corresponding devotion feat, which means you lose both the spells and the domain granted ability.

You can also pick them up as normal feats.

Instead of a CLWounds wand, I would go with a Lesser Vigor Wand - you are guaranteed 9 hit points of healing per charge instead of: nuts, 2 hit points back to you.Lesser Vigour is 10 rounds +1/lvl, so 11 hp from the wand, if my memory serves.

Tvtyrant
2011-01-11, 02:59 PM
LV isn't core, and I'm not entirely sure what book it is from (CD?)

But yes, I have heard the maths behind that one, it is just less useful in combat at low levels.

Gullintanni
2011-01-11, 04:55 PM
LV isn't core, and I'm not entirely sure what book it is from (CD?)


CD is correct. SpC aswell...and I think PHB2 may also have it.

BiblioRook
2011-01-13, 03:39 AM
Is there a way to regain spells mid-day? Or are the spells you take at the beginning of the day it and you will have to wait till the nest day to get more?

2xMachina
2011-01-13, 07:48 AM
There's Pearl of Power. Only regained prepared spells though.

You can also leave spell slots unfilled, and prepare them later. But the spells/day is still limited.

And, I think Cleric can only pray for spells at a certain time, so you've to wait till next day to get new spells.

Gullintanni
2011-01-13, 07:50 AM
And, I think Cleric can only pray for spells at a certain time, so you've to wait till next day to get new spells.

This is correct. A cleric must select a time of day, and on each day at that time, must pray, and at that point, he receives his allotment of spells. The unfortunate thing about this is that while a Cleric only gets spells once each day, in theory, a Wizard could prepare spells every 8 hours.

Master_Rahl22
2011-01-13, 10:02 AM
If you want to be a summoner, you can go for Malconvoker in Complete Scoundrel. You trick evil creatures into doing the work of good, and get a free Extend and other buffs on them if your Bluff is successful.

Thespianus
2011-01-14, 05:39 AM
This is correct. A cleric must select a time of day, and on each day at that time, must pray, and at that point, he receives his allotment of spells. The unfortunate thing about this is that while a Cleric only gets spells once each day, in theory, a Wizard could prepare spells every 8 hours.
The Wizard still have "Spells per Day", so I don't think this is actually true by RAW.

Gullintanni
2011-01-14, 08:07 AM
The Wizard still have "Spells per Day", so I don't think this is actually true by RAW.

Entirely possible. Readings vary in different sources, and I haven't explored it too in depth. Text trumps table though, and in reading the method for wizards to prepare spells, all it says is that they need a full night's rest to prepare spells.

Even if it is the case that they could normally prep spells once every 8 hours it'd be perfectly reasonable to House-rule otherwise. They certainly don't need MORE versatility.

Optimator
2011-01-14, 03:28 PM
Cleric Handbook. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=420.0) It's pretty good.

Darius
2011-01-14, 03:30 PM
LV isn't core, and I'm not entirely sure what book it is from (CD?)

But yes, I have heard the maths behind that one, it is just less useful in combat at low levels.

I didn't think CORE was a requirement based on this:



As it is, I'm starting at 4th level in Forgotten Realms and really just don't know where to even begin, be it what spells to use or feats to take, etc. I think my GM is pretty open as far as books go, though he probably would prefer it if I try to keep it within reason as he's pretty new to running a game.

Tvtyrant
2011-01-14, 03:35 PM
I didn't think CORE was a requirement based on this:

I wasn't arguing that :smallconfused: I just use core myself, and therefore was offering the core use. I asked which book the other one was from as well.

Anyway, you could always go Zen Archer Cleric if you like to sit back; then Divine Vitality yourself to fire even more arrows and get a strength bonus!

Greenish
2011-01-14, 03:49 PM
then Divine Vitality yourself to fire even more arrows and get a strength bonus!The what now? Do you mean Divine Power or Sacred Vitality?

BiblioRook
2011-01-14, 04:03 PM
I was having a difficult time figuring out just what feats to take as that level adjustment for metamagic spells seemed like a pain to deal with...

However, looking over things that were suggested (particularly from that Cleric's Handbook) I noticed a combination that looked neat but was never mentioned so I was wondering if it would work the way I thought it might.
What I'm talking about is Reach Spell and Chain Spell; using the two of them, would it be then possible to chain healing spells?

Thespianus
2011-01-14, 04:04 PM
Entirely possible. Readings vary in different sources, and I haven't explored it too in depth. Text trumps table though, and in reading the method for wizards to prepare spells, all it says is that they need a full night's rest to prepare spells.
Well, the paragraphs surrounding that part of the rules, for example page 178 of the PHB is full of uses of the word "daily", so I'm guessing the "spells per day" phrase actually means "per day". ;)

Gullintanni
2011-01-14, 04:29 PM
I was having a difficult time figuring out just what feats to take as that level adjustment for metamagic spells seemed like a pain to deal with...

However, looking over things that were suggested (particularly from that Cleric's Handbook) I noticed a combination that looked neat but was never mentioned so I was wondering if it would work the way I thought it might.
What I'm talking about is Reach Spell and Chain Spell; using the two of them, would it be then possible to chain healing spells?

I believe so, but if I'm not mistaken, reach converts your spell into a Ray, meaning you'd be making ranged touch attacks to hit.


Well, the paragraphs surrounding that part of the rules, for example page 178 of the PHB is full of uses of the word "daily", so I'm guessing the "spells per day" phrase actually means "per day". ;)

Fair enough. Like I said, I didn't really research into it. :smallsmile:

Kol Korran
2011-01-14, 05:08 PM
hhmmm. i like clerics. there is a campaign on hold that has a favorite cleric of mine. here is a bit of advice from what i read. i apologize to anyone if it has been said allready- long day, late hour here:

- about the chain spell- it's nice, but it costs way more spell levels (especially with reach spell) than you can afford right now.

- a feat i really like is "divine spell power" (from complete divine). it enables you to expend one turn undead attempt, and you roll a turn undead attempt to get an increase (truly, in bad rolls a decrease) to your caster level (up to +4) this usually increases many aspects of the spell somewhat- hp cured, duration, area of effect, effect dependent on spell level and so on). i found it an extremley usefull and versatile feat. i know you're probably going with Oghma, but i saw you mentioning the luck domain (were you considering Tymora? goddess of adventurers?). this is the perfect feat for luck oriented priests.

- another good feat for dealing with undead is "disciple of the sun" (same book). for an extra turn attempt, your turn undead becomes "destroy undead". it makes turning actually worhtwhile (i know some will disagree. i'm talking only from my own experience). undead are tough bastards. this feat can be a life saver, helped me a lot. if you do take it try to acquire (in time) various items that boost your ability- a cloak of charisma and the most importent phylactery of undead turning come to mind.

- another feat i highly suggest if magic items are not readily available is "scribe scrolls": all those utility spells that you need to cast just once in a long time, you keep on scrolls for when their time is up. this feat also works if you're out in the wilderness for a long time. discuss with your DM on whether this feat will have an effect or not.

- some spells i like at these levels: Divine Insight (again from complete divine) gives you a boost to ANY skill, ON THE SPOT (you cast the spell much earlier). the skill bonus is substantial- 5+ CL hours till you use it (remember Divine spell power?). i can't stress how usefull i found this spell to be.

- the regular buff spells for the party- bull's strength to melee types, bear's endurance to everyone, and owl's wisdom for... you.increases your spell DC by 2! (up until you get a periapt of wisdom +4)

- spiritual weapon: this spell is a gem i think, and especially good for sneaky types- you create a force weapon that harasses enemies for CL rounds (remember Divine power?) archer behind a wall? spiritual weapon. disappearing monster- spiritual weapon. caster far away- spiritual weapon. it's not the greatest spell, but you can do a lot worse.

- at first level there is a toss up between "protection from alignment" spells and "Shield of faith". the first gives also a bonus to saves, protects from possession and so on, but it doesn't upgrade, and is only against a certain alignment, while SOF is always usefull, and increases to +3 at CL 7, (remember Divine power?) and every 6 level there after. i find these two spells to be very effective buff spells, depending on what you're facing.

- lesser restoration has been mentioned allready. this in many times can be the difference between an effective or a crippled party member. i however suggest you (or more correctly the party) invest in either potions (most expensive), scrolls (cheaper) or a partially charged wand (the cheapest) instead of carrying those spells.

- on the subject of wands. it has been suggested you take a wand of lesser vigor for out of combat healing (slow healing, but more hp) or a wand of cure light wounds for in combat healing (variable lesser hp, but right now). i suggest you take both. many might say that in combat healing is inferior, but some time you're surprised/ wern't prepared/ had bad luck, and if some of the party can grat you a round or three, you can patch some one up real nice. have them carry potions too.

- one last spell i must suggest is "remove fear". for a 1st level spell it mean that you get to keep your main melee character (who have low will saves) in the battle instead of out of it. this too has helped me quite a bit. due to it being situational though, i suggest you keep a scroll (or 3, they're cheap) of it handy.

i hope i helped. have fun playing a cleric, i sure do! :smallsmile:

Tvtyrant
2011-01-14, 05:18 PM
The what now? Do you mean Divine Power or Sacred Vitality?

Lol sorry, its an ability from a video game I was playing today. I am deeply ashamed.