BobVosh
2011-01-08, 12:43 AM
I have never gotten to play a spell thief prior to moving on to pathfinder. My current DM opened all completes + PF so my first though was "finally." I looked over the book, and he said I could combine my spells into int for it, which is nice bump. Down to two main stats.
I'm wavering between straight spell thief and spell thief into arcane trickster. I don't know why, but the thought of stealing fireballs with fireballs sounds like so much fun.
Fair amount of changes specific to his game below. The few that matter:
Arcane armor training doesn't take an action (including mastery)
TWF defense is combined with TWF, and gets an additional +1 for improved and greater TWF.
Current weapon finesse is free. (including touch spells)
New weapon finesse: You replace str with dex for damage on finesse weapons.
Arcane Trickster: Only requires first level spells.
On weapons:
All nonracial exotic weapons -> Martial Except for a bastard sword. It still takes training to use it one handed.
Exotic weapon -> adds ability to current weapon from: Brace, Disarm, Trip, Reach can be added to polearms
Double weapons cost 1.5x to enchant both ends with the same enchantment and 1x to MW
On Armor:
Adding the hide shield from sandstorm.
Tower shield and hide shields are under heavy shield proficiency.
You may shield bash with a towershield, and place a spike on it.
On Races:
Halforcs can choose the current race, or the beta version of their race
Halflings lose the +1 to saves, and gain a feat
Humans get to name a skill as a class skill
Dwarves get +2 to CMD
Elves get to roll automatically for secret doors within 10 feet
Gnomes get darkvision to replace lowlight
On feats:
All feats that add 2 to 2 different skills are gone. Instead you can take a generic one that adds to any 2 you want(except for class bonuses, such as
alertness from a wizard's familiar.
Arcane armor training doesn't take an action (including mastery)
Disruptive is 1/2 your BAB, instead of 4.
Dodge and mobility are combined.
Endurance and diehard are combined.
Run and Fleet are combined.
Improved counterspell will also allow using two of the same level spells.(same school, still)
All save bumping feats are combined with the appropriate improved save bump feat.
Cleave and vital strike are combined. Cleave and great cleave will work with the vital strike tree, but great cleave is still a seperate feat.
Rapid reload works on all crossbows, no need to take per crossbow type.
Strike back allows you to strike for each hit they do on you, up to your standard full attack.
Toughness is back to beta version (3+1 per HD)
TWF defense is combined with TWF, and gets an additional +1 for improved and greater TWF.
Current weapon finesse is free. (including touch spells)
New weapon finesse: You replace str with dex for damage on finesse weapons.
Craft wonderous items: Any power than duplicates, or exceeds previous craft feats cost 50% more. I.E. An elixer as a potion of cure critical costs
spell level * caster level * 25 * 1.5 Ask if this confuses you.
Enlarge and widen spell are combined.
On classes:
Barbarian: Didn't look, as noone is barbarian. Feel free to suggest one if you want.
Bard: Looks fine to me.
Cleric: You may spend a second charge to add 1/2 your cleric level to a channel. Swift action.
Druid: Needs something, not sure what yet.
Fighter: Gains perception and stealth as class skills. They also get 4+int skills.
Monk: I just hate this class. Replace with swordsage from Tome of Battle.
Paladin: I'm looking at you smite, but I'm not sure how to change you.
Ranger: Evasion at 4th. Imp at 12th. Trackless step (like druids) at 7th.
Rogue: Adds half rogue level to CL if they take a caster class.
Sorcerer: At 6th, 12th, and 18th the sorcerer can choose a metamagic feat they have. Using this feat no longer increases casting time.
Wizard: Universalist: You can add int to damage for hand of the apprentice.
Transmutation: You can sacrifice half the bonus (round as least benefits) to make it an insight bonus instead of enhancement.
Necromancy: Your channel is based off int.
Illusion: In addition to current powers you can use illusions againist targets normally immune. You can target 1/5 wizard levels times per
day immune creatures and force them to percieve it as a nonimmune creature. (vs true seeing, undead, etc)
Evocation: Intense spells instead adds +1 damage/die
Enchantment: Same as Illusion
Divination: 1/day you may add half your wizard level to a reflex save. You must decide to use this before rolling.
(you may roll spellcraft first)
Conjuration: 1/day you may ignore making concentration checks to maintaining a spell after damage.
Abjuration: Resistance will stack with any other resistance to the same element.
On PrC:
Shadow Dancer: Gains a die of sneak attack on 3, 6 and 9. Shadow jump is a swift action, that doesn't end your turn.
Pathfinder Chronicler: Gains 1/2 spell progression.
Assassin: Gains rogue talents at 3, 6 and 9.
Dragon Disciple: Dead caster progression levels give +1 CL. The +2 int is replaced with +2 (caster stat)
Duelist: See feats, already better from that alone.
Arcane Archer: Gains arcane strike as a bonus feat. (level 1)
Arcane Trickster: Only requires first level spells.
Mystic Theurge: You have to cast 2nd level spells on one side, and 1st level on the other. You may decide which way.
Loremaster: Add your loremaster level to knowledge checks.
Eldritch Knight: When you proc spell critical, you may use it as a free action. However you may not use your swift action to cast a spell.
The group I run with is fairly low op, so I don't mind being unoptimized. However I do like having a fair bit of choice as far as actions go. Would straight ST be better? Do note that I can get into Arcane Trickster at 5th level, and the campaign ends at 15 so I can get the AT capstone prior to then. Sneak attack on AoE spells seems like a nice bonus for a class that trades SA for stuff.
So I'm looking for suggestions / thoughts on this. Oh, my race is chosen: Tiefling with the infernal bastard trait. I give up darkness for a cantrip at will (mage hand for AT) and lose my resistances for +2 saving throw vs those elements.
I'm wavering between straight spell thief and spell thief into arcane trickster. I don't know why, but the thought of stealing fireballs with fireballs sounds like so much fun.
Fair amount of changes specific to his game below. The few that matter:
Arcane armor training doesn't take an action (including mastery)
TWF defense is combined with TWF, and gets an additional +1 for improved and greater TWF.
Current weapon finesse is free. (including touch spells)
New weapon finesse: You replace str with dex for damage on finesse weapons.
Arcane Trickster: Only requires first level spells.
On weapons:
All nonracial exotic weapons -> Martial Except for a bastard sword. It still takes training to use it one handed.
Exotic weapon -> adds ability to current weapon from: Brace, Disarm, Trip, Reach can be added to polearms
Double weapons cost 1.5x to enchant both ends with the same enchantment and 1x to MW
On Armor:
Adding the hide shield from sandstorm.
Tower shield and hide shields are under heavy shield proficiency.
You may shield bash with a towershield, and place a spike on it.
On Races:
Halforcs can choose the current race, or the beta version of their race
Halflings lose the +1 to saves, and gain a feat
Humans get to name a skill as a class skill
Dwarves get +2 to CMD
Elves get to roll automatically for secret doors within 10 feet
Gnomes get darkvision to replace lowlight
On feats:
All feats that add 2 to 2 different skills are gone. Instead you can take a generic one that adds to any 2 you want(except for class bonuses, such as
alertness from a wizard's familiar.
Arcane armor training doesn't take an action (including mastery)
Disruptive is 1/2 your BAB, instead of 4.
Dodge and mobility are combined.
Endurance and diehard are combined.
Run and Fleet are combined.
Improved counterspell will also allow using two of the same level spells.(same school, still)
All save bumping feats are combined with the appropriate improved save bump feat.
Cleave and vital strike are combined. Cleave and great cleave will work with the vital strike tree, but great cleave is still a seperate feat.
Rapid reload works on all crossbows, no need to take per crossbow type.
Strike back allows you to strike for each hit they do on you, up to your standard full attack.
Toughness is back to beta version (3+1 per HD)
TWF defense is combined with TWF, and gets an additional +1 for improved and greater TWF.
Current weapon finesse is free. (including touch spells)
New weapon finesse: You replace str with dex for damage on finesse weapons.
Craft wonderous items: Any power than duplicates, or exceeds previous craft feats cost 50% more. I.E. An elixer as a potion of cure critical costs
spell level * caster level * 25 * 1.5 Ask if this confuses you.
Enlarge and widen spell are combined.
On classes:
Barbarian: Didn't look, as noone is barbarian. Feel free to suggest one if you want.
Bard: Looks fine to me.
Cleric: You may spend a second charge to add 1/2 your cleric level to a channel. Swift action.
Druid: Needs something, not sure what yet.
Fighter: Gains perception and stealth as class skills. They also get 4+int skills.
Monk: I just hate this class. Replace with swordsage from Tome of Battle.
Paladin: I'm looking at you smite, but I'm not sure how to change you.
Ranger: Evasion at 4th. Imp at 12th. Trackless step (like druids) at 7th.
Rogue: Adds half rogue level to CL if they take a caster class.
Sorcerer: At 6th, 12th, and 18th the sorcerer can choose a metamagic feat they have. Using this feat no longer increases casting time.
Wizard: Universalist: You can add int to damage for hand of the apprentice.
Transmutation: You can sacrifice half the bonus (round as least benefits) to make it an insight bonus instead of enhancement.
Necromancy: Your channel is based off int.
Illusion: In addition to current powers you can use illusions againist targets normally immune. You can target 1/5 wizard levels times per
day immune creatures and force them to percieve it as a nonimmune creature. (vs true seeing, undead, etc)
Evocation: Intense spells instead adds +1 damage/die
Enchantment: Same as Illusion
Divination: 1/day you may add half your wizard level to a reflex save. You must decide to use this before rolling.
(you may roll spellcraft first)
Conjuration: 1/day you may ignore making concentration checks to maintaining a spell after damage.
Abjuration: Resistance will stack with any other resistance to the same element.
On PrC:
Shadow Dancer: Gains a die of sneak attack on 3, 6 and 9. Shadow jump is a swift action, that doesn't end your turn.
Pathfinder Chronicler: Gains 1/2 spell progression.
Assassin: Gains rogue talents at 3, 6 and 9.
Dragon Disciple: Dead caster progression levels give +1 CL. The +2 int is replaced with +2 (caster stat)
Duelist: See feats, already better from that alone.
Arcane Archer: Gains arcane strike as a bonus feat. (level 1)
Arcane Trickster: Only requires first level spells.
Mystic Theurge: You have to cast 2nd level spells on one side, and 1st level on the other. You may decide which way.
Loremaster: Add your loremaster level to knowledge checks.
Eldritch Knight: When you proc spell critical, you may use it as a free action. However you may not use your swift action to cast a spell.
The group I run with is fairly low op, so I don't mind being unoptimized. However I do like having a fair bit of choice as far as actions go. Would straight ST be better? Do note that I can get into Arcane Trickster at 5th level, and the campaign ends at 15 so I can get the AT capstone prior to then. Sneak attack on AoE spells seems like a nice bonus for a class that trades SA for stuff.
So I'm looking for suggestions / thoughts on this. Oh, my race is chosen: Tiefling with the infernal bastard trait. I give up darkness for a cantrip at will (mage hand for AT) and lose my resistances for +2 saving throw vs those elements.