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Ralasha
2011-01-08, 09:10 AM
A 3.x Resource.

Background:
The Varangian Warriors were the elite warriors of Miklagaard, also known as Byzantium, and before that Alexandria. They were renowned for their prowess in battle, and their great feats of endurance, taking wounds that would easily have killed lesser men. Their prowess in battle led to them being offered work as the Royal Guard of the Byzantian Emperor. In subsequent battles over the next twenty years their reputation became so well known that the enemies of that once great city avoided attacking it directly, as one might avoid contracting plague.
One of the details of their reputation was their unique style of fighting. They would often use one of the two following strategies. Charge into battle with sword and shield, or axe and shield. Or hurl their axe or sword first, then charge in with their other weapon, and their shield. When charging into battle with their shield on, rather than throwing their axe or sword first, they would drop their shield as soon as it became damaged, or got in the way. Then they would quickly grab their other weapon, and begin laying about them.
This was in fact, so effective that legend has it they could each individually kill a hundred men a piece before being felled.
Thus: my inspiration.

Requirements:
BAB: +6
Weapon Focus (Any One-Handed Sword, and Battle Axe or Dwarven War Axe), Weapon Specialization (Any One-Handed Sword, and Battle Axe or Dwarven War Axe), Endurance, and Diehard, Shield Focus.
Race: Human, Elf or Dwarf.
Alignment: Any non-chaotic. A varangian is a sworn warrior, similar to a knight, though less exacting. A chaotic character is simply incapable of the dedication required to become one. If ever a varangian becomes chaotic, they retain the abilities of this class, but gain an experience penalty of 50% and cannot gain any further levels until they atone, and correct their alignment. Their oath is a sacred one.

The Varangian Warrior
{table]Level | BAB | FS | RS | WS | Special
1st| +1 | +2 | +0 | +2 | Two Weapon Fighting, Shield Swap, Throw Weapon
2nd| +2 | +3 | +0 | +3 | Two Weapon Defense, Improved Shield Bash
3rd| +3 | +3 | +1 | +3 | Mettle, Uncanny Dodge, Shield Sharge
4th| +4 | +4 | +1 | +4 | Improved Two Weapon Fighting
5th| +5 | +4 | +1 | +4 | Battle Frenzy
6th| +6 | +5 | +2 | +5 | Improved Uncanny Dodge
7th| +7 | +5 | +2 | +5 | Greater Two Weapon Fighting
8th| +8 | +6 | +2 | +6 | Like a Hot Knife Cuts Through Snow
9th| +9 | +6 | +3 | +6 | Improved Mettle
10th| +10 | +7 | +3 | +7 | Two Weapon Perfection
[/table]

Hit Dice: d10

Class Skills:
The Varangian Warrior's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).

Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) × 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Class Features:
Abilities: Strength and Constitution are most important to a varangian, with dexterity being only slightly less so with their restrictions on armor. Intelligence is also important as it gives them additional skills.

All of the abilities in the above Table, and the following are Abilities of the varangian Warrior.

►Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The Varangian Warrior gains exotic shield proficiency (Arrow Catcher), they gain no other armor or weapon proficiencies. The Varangian Warrior looses the benefit of the Two Weapon Fighting abilities when wearing heavy armor.

►Elite Warrior: Varangian class levels stack with fighter levels for the purposes of meeting prerequisites for feats.

►Two Weapon Fighting (Ex): The varangian warrior gains two weapon fighting as a class feature. At level 4, this improves to improved two weapon Fighting. at level 7 it improves again to Greater Two Weapon Fighting.

►Shield Swap (Ex): The varangian is full and well used to equipping and unequiping his shield. He can now do it far more quickly. Starting at 1st level the varangian may swap his shield for his offhand weapon, and vice versa. This may be done as a swift action once per round on his own turn, and once per round on anothers' turn.

►Throw Weapon: The best defense is a good offense. The varangian warrior may treat any weapon he carries as a thrown weapon, dealing the weapons melee damage plus his strength bonus, if any. This may be done as a part of a move action (thus during a charge), or as a full attack action.

►Two Weapon Defense: The varangian warrior gains the benefit of Two Weapon Defense at level 2. The bonus from two weapon defense increases to +2 at level 5, and to +3 at level 8. (This stacks with improved Two Weapon Defense.)

►Improved Shield Bash: The varangian warrior retains his Shield Bonus to AC even while attacking with his shield. In addition, the varangian may treat his shield as an offhand weapon.

►Mettle (Ex): The varangian warrior's is no one to take lightly. At 3rd level, the varangian warrior can resist magical and unusual attacks with great willpower of fortitude. If she makes a successful will or fortitude save against an attack that normally would have a lesser effect on a successful save (such as a spell with a saving throw entry of Will half or Fortitude partial), she instead completely negates the effect.

►Armored Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 3rd level, a varangian warrior gains the ability to react to danger before his senses would normally allow him to do
so. He retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught
flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses
his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.
Unlike normal, the varangian warrior does not automatically gain improved uncanny dodge if he already has the uncanny dodge feature from another source.

►Shield Charge (Ex): The Varangian Warrior may make a charge attack using its shield as its primary weapon. Doing so does not cause it to take penalties to AC until its next turn, as it is charging defensively. It is also not subject to attacks of opportunity while using this ability. This ability is usable once per encounter.

►Battle Frenzy (Ex): Once per round following a successful attack roll against an enemy the varangian may make an additional attack at the same attack bonus. At 5th level the varangian is able to make an additional attack for every successful attack roll he makes, at the same attack bonus. In addition, at level 8, for each additional successful strike he makes, he deals 1 additional point of damage for the duration of the encounter.

►Improved Armored Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 6th level and higher, a
varangian warrior can no longer be flanked; he can react to opponents on
opposite sides of him as easily as he can react to a single attacker.
This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the varangian
by flanking him, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue
levels than the target has class levels.

►Like A Hot Knife Cuts Through Snow (Ex): Once per round, as part of any attack action, the varangian warrior may make one attack ignoring any Armor and Shield bonuses to the enemies AC.

►Improved Mettle: Starting at level 9, whenever the varangian warrior is required to make a Fortitude or Will Save he takes no ill effects when making the save, in addition, even if he fails the save, if the cause has a lesser effect he takes that one. Such as the ray of exhaustion.

►Two Weapon Perfection: The varangian warrior has perfected the ways of two weapon fighting. It gains its full base attack bonus to all weapons.

New Items:
Exotic Shield: Arrow Catcher; AC Bonus: 3; ACP: -3; Weight: 7 pounds; Cost: 350 Gold
This type of shield is made of a material similar to wicker, made up of severa layers woven in such a way that it is lighter than most shields, and will catch an arrow or a sword that strikes it. Granting a +2 circumstance bonus to disarm attempts, and to resist sunder attempts. It is reinforced with metal rings spaced at intervals in the weave. In the center is a metal boss to protect that hand that supports it, while some may have a length of metal covering the area in front of the arm. Though one like this has an addition +1 to AC, it looses its bonuses to disarm, and the ability to snare arrows.

The inspiration for this revision was admittedly, from a piece of music. Though the original was just that. Original. The song is Valhalla Awaits Me, by a band known as Amon Amarth.
[spoiler]

Dead_Jester
2011-01-08, 10:07 AM
Looks ok, but the prerequisite require to be 6th lvl, and by then, most melee characters already have their weapon style chosen and on their way to be mastered. If I wanted to be a twf/thrower, I'd already have taken some (or most) of the feats that the PrC gives.

And why the strange Attack thing? Is it something that's normal in your games? If it is, then it's fine. If not, then it is simply a needless crutch.

Also, this class get's a lot of feat, but not a lot of unique stuff. I could remake something incredibly similar with a normal fighter. This need something truly unique that sets it apart from normal fighters. Don't hesitate to make the class stronger, as it could definitely use an improvement in the power department. There is potential here, it just needs to be exploited and made into a truly viable PrC.

Finally, have you looked at the Bloodstorm Blade PrC in ToB? A tiger claw warblade with BSB is very similar to this class concept

Ralasha
2011-01-08, 10:14 AM
I'm not going for broken. But thank you for the suggestions. I'm going for something that a conservative DM will allow.

Dead_Jester
2011-01-08, 10:26 AM
Don't go for overpowered, but aim for tier 3 (ToB level, psi-war, binder, warlock, etc). Most DM's (me included) want all their PC's to be able to contribute to the adventure. Of course, it is possible to optimize a core fighter into being a contributing member of a party, but it requires optimization, and it makes boring characters.

You could give this class some unique stuff if you don't mind going further into the legendary/mythic hero aspect. Things like superhuman abilities fit right in with the archetype.

Ralasha
2011-01-08, 10:31 AM
I could make Like a Hit Knife Cuts Through Snow a once per round ability. Note it says armor and shield bonuses. So even Epic Mage Armor wouldn't help you. It ignore Bracers of Armor, Armor, Natural Armor, the Shield Spell, Any spells armor bonuses, racial bonuses feats or effects of these types. Not to mention, you hit someone, you get an extra free attack against them, and each time you hit them you deal additional damage. Hit once, 1 damage, use your free attack, hit for 1 more damage, hit again, 1 more damage, etc. I could on the other hand, make it like Great Cleave. In that each time you hit you gain an additional free strike. Towards which the free hits don't count.

And again, something a conservative DM would go for.

Elfin
2011-01-08, 09:16 PM
Really, I think it's rather pointless to try to please a 'conservative DM'. Every game and DM is different, and a conservative DM by their very descriptor has some odd (or at least different) views on game balance. Much wiser to try to actually aim for balance than attempt to satisfy a hypothetical DM with a less-than-stellar understanding of balance.

But other than that, Dead Jester has it spot on. This looks like it could become something really nice; good luck.

Ralasha
2011-01-09, 01:56 AM
Got any suggestions?

Elfin
2011-01-09, 07:56 PM
Well, first of all, try to narrow the PrC's focus; right now, rather than focusing on the synergy between styles you describe in the introduction, it seems like a warrior who simply dabbles in both TWFing and shield bashing.

From the intro, it sounds like this is a warrior who dashes in with a shield, switching to TWFing if needed. If we establish these as two different faces of the class, defensive and offensive, and base class features off those, then we have a warrior who throughout the battle switches between roles, which I think is a very interesting concept.

Going through it piece by piece:

- 2 SP is very little; how about raising it to 4?

- The feat prereqs are enormous. Weapon Focus and Spec are reasonable, if not fantastic on their own, but on further thought they can probably just be gotten rid of. I'd say you should include Quick Draw as a prereq, though, as well as Two-Weapon Fighting, get rid of the Endurance and Diehard prereqs, and swap Shield Focus for Improved Shield Bash. That's three feats - very heavy tax, but not as overwhelming as before, and achievable without the use of flaws and/or a dip in fighter.

- I'd very strongly recommend giving this class a limited number of martial maneuvers, drawn from the Iron Heart and Tiger Claw disciplines, as well as full IL. Maneuvers every odd level and stances at 4th and 10th sound right.

- Elite Warrior is good if you want to pursue the WF/WS lines, but is limited in its use, as not many will want to pursue those lines. How about either replacing it with or adding Weapon Familiarity, as per the warblade?

- With TWFing as a prereq, it would of course be switched to ITWF at 1st level and GTWF at 6th.

- Shield Sling is redundant with Quick Draw, and so can safely be gotten rid of.

- Throw Weapon is identical to the feat Throw Anything.

- The Two-Weapon Defense line is awful, and redundant with a shield. It can be safely gotten rid of.

- Improved Shield Bash - Now a prereq. Instead, have the PrC grant Shield Charge, and Shield Slam at 8th.

- All the rest looks good.

That makes a solid baseline. The TWFing side, I think, is very solid; all that remains is giving the defensive side some battlefield control abilities.

Edit: Here's a table for the class, with my suggestions. Looks like there's room for defensive abilities at level 4 and 7.


Prerequisites:
BAB: +6
Feats: Improved Shield Bash, Two-Weapon Fighting, Quick Draw
Alignment: Any non-chaotic. A varangian is a sworn warrior, similar to a knight, though less exacting. A chaotic character is simply incapable of the dedication required to become one. If ever a varangian becomes chaotic, they retain the abilities of this class, but gain an experience penalty of 50% and cannot gain any further levels until they atone, and correct their alignment. Their oath is a sacred one.

The Varangian Warrior
{table]Level | BAB | F | R | W | Special | Maneuvers | Stances
1st| +1 | +2 | +0 | +2 | Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Throw Anything | 1 | 0
2nd| +2 | +3 | +0 | +3 | Shield Charge | 0 | 0
3rd| +3 | +3 | +1 | +3 | Mettle, Uncanny Dodge | 1 | 0
4th| +4 | +4 | +1 | +4 | | 0 | 1
5th| +5 | +4 | +1 | +4 | Battle Frenzy | 1 | 0
6th| +6 | +5 | +2 | +5 | Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Uncanny Dodge | 0 | 0
7th| +7 | +5 | +2 | +5 | | 1 | 0
8th| +8 | +6 | +2 | +6 | Like a Hot Knife Cuts Through Snow | 0 | 0
9th| +9 | +6 | +3 | +6 | Improved Mettle | 1 | 0
10th| +10 | +7 | +3 | +7 | Two Weapon Perfection | 0 | 1
[/table]

Hit Dice: d10

Class Skills:
The Varangian Warrior's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Martial Lore (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).

Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) × 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Disciplines: Iron Heart, Tiger Claw

Ralasha
2011-01-09, 10:02 PM
blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah... I'm really long winded, and like the sound of my keyboard...

Get out, go make your own class. No Plagiary.
The actual idea here is that they are recieving training, weather self taught, or taught by someone else. Quick draw would not make shield sling obsolete.

Elfin
2011-01-10, 12:34 AM
That's really disrespectful and really very hurtful. You asked me to evaluate and critique your creation, and I put effort into looking over it and giving some suggestions.

Not agreeing is one thing, but insulting someone who just wants to help is another.

And if you don't want any advice, why did you ask people to Please Evaluate and Critique Honestly?

My intention was only to be helpful. I'm sorry if I came across otherwise.

Ralasha
2011-01-10, 12:46 AM
You came across as judgmental, and negative. It did not sound like an evaluation or a critique, so much as an attempt to find any possible flaws. This class is intended to be a fighter with more combat options than a solo specialist, while allowing said fighter to be more useful in combat. Quick draw qould not replace shield sling, because it would not allow the varangian to change out his weapon for the extra bonus to AC upon being attacked. The Two Weapon Defense line does not make a shield obsolete. In example, I'm a varangian. I use a tower shield. I have my two weapons out. My two weapons give me a +3 shield bonus to AC. My tower shield gives me a +5 thanks to shield focus. In addition, my shield gives me cover. My weapons do not. In addition, the WF, WS line is not the only line of feats to which the elite warrior would grant access. There are other feats which require fighter levels. Everything in the PrC was calculated. While what I was looking for was advice, and commentary, I was not asking to have someone rewrite the entire thing for me.

On another line, I tend to avoid the ToB. I find it to be unnecessary, and generally against the entire purpose for a fighter. If you want a character like that, just go psychic warrior.

Sir_Chivalry
2011-01-11, 12:10 AM
Requirements:
BAB: +6
Weapon Focus (Any One-Handed Sword, and Battle Axe or Dwarven War Axe), Weapon Specialization (Any One-Handed Sword, and Battle Axe or Dwarven War Axe), Endurance, and Diehard, Shield Focus.
Race: Human.
Alignment: Any non-chaotic. A varangian is a sworn warrior, similar to a knight, though less exacting. A chaotic character is simply incapable of the dedication required to become one. If ever a varangian becomes chaotic, they retain the abilities of this class, but gain an experience penalty of 50% and cannot gain any further levels until they atone, and correct their alignment. Their oath is a sacred one.

Perhaps the Weapon Focus/Specialization feats should be be for shields for bashing, rather than axes and swords, as the class has nothing mechanics-wise to do with those weapons. If those weapons are meant to be iconic, some ability within would make those feat requirements seem less of a pile of dead weight. Shield Focus is not an official feat, unless you are referring to the Pathfinder feat, in which case the feat in 3.5 DnD is named Shield Specialization.


The Varangian Warrior
{table]Level | BAB | FS | RS | WS | Special
1st| +1 | +2 | +0 | +2 | Two Weapon Fighting, Shield Sling, Throw Weapon
2nd| +2 | +3 | +0 | +3 | Two Weapon Defense, Improved Shield Bash
3rd| +3 | +3 | +1 | +3 | Mettle, Uncanny Dodge
4th| +4 | +4 | +1 | +4 | Improved Two Weapon Fighting
5th| +5 | +4 | +1 | +4 | Battle Frenzy
6th| +6 | +5 | +2 | +5 | Improved Uncanny Dodge
7th| +7 | +5 | +2 | +5 | Greater Two Weapon Fighting
8th| +8 | +6 | +2 | +6 | Like a Hot Knife Cuts Through Snow
9th| +9 | +6 | +3 | +6 | Improved Mettle
10th| +10 | +7 | +3 | +7 | Two Weapon Perfection
[/table]

Hit Dice: d10

Class Skills:
The Varangian Warrior's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).

Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) × 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Class Features:
Abilities: Strength and Constitution are most important to a varangian, with dexterity being only slightly less so with their restrictions on armor. Intelligence is also important as it gives them additional skills.

Everything here seems good. I'd agree with the abilities summary, seems on point.


All of the abilities in the above Table, and the following are Abilities of the varangian Warrior. The varangian warrior looses the benefit of the Two Weapon Fighting abilities when wearing heavy armor.

Why don't they just lose all class abilities in heavy armour? Also, this should be an addition to the proficiency heading, not its own thing.


Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The Varangian Warrior gains exotic shield proficiency (Arrow Catcher), they gain no other armor or weapon proficiencies.

Elite Warrior: Varangian class levels stack with fighter levels for the purposes of meeting prerequisites for feats.

This is good, and much needed.


Two Weapon Fighting: The varangian warrior gains two weapon fighting as a class feature. At level 4, this improves to improved two weapon Fighting. at level 7 it improves again to Greater Two Weapon Fighting.

Never argued with extra feats (don't hold me to that)


Shield Sling: The varangian is full and well used to equipping and unequiping his shield. He can now do it far more quickly. Starting at 1st level the varangian may swap his shield for his offhand weapon, and vice versa. This may be done as a swift action once per round on his own turn, and once per round on anothers' turn.

There is already a feat called Shield Sling, it allows you to throw your shield, plus a trip attempt. It is found in the PHB II. I would suggest this ability be renamed "Fast Strap", in the vein of Fast Don for armour. Or Quick Switch. The once per round on another's turn would be an "immediate" action.


Throw Weapon: The best defense is a good offense. The varangian warrior may treat any weapon he carries as a thrown weapon, dealing the weapons melee damage plus his strength bonus, if any. This may be done as a part of a move action (thus during a charge), or as a full attack action.

You can already throw weapons normally. If you mean doing so without penalty, then the feat/ability is called Throw Anything (Comp Warrior). If this is in anyway different, may I ask how? Larger range increment?


Two Weapon Defense: The varangian warrior gains the benefit of Two Weapon Defense at level 2. The bonus from two weapon defense increases to +2 at level 5, and to +3 at level 8. (This stacks with improved Two Weapon Defense.)

Okay, this is what the class does well, compensates for not wearing heavy armour, good thing.


Improved Shield Bash: The varangian warrior retains his Shield Bonus to AC even while attacking with his shield. In addition, the varangian may treat his shield as an offhand weapon.

The first part is the effect of the Improved Shield Bash feat from the PHB. The second part is already part of the rules from the get-go.


Mettle: The varangian warrior's is no one to take lightly. Starting at 3rd level he has the ability to withstand fearsome punishment. Whenever a varangian warrior is subject to a Fortitude or Will Save, if he makes the check he suffers no ill effects.

Using the official wording helps in the long run.

Mettle (Ex): The varangian warrior's is no one to take lightly. At 3rd level, the varangian warrior can resist magical and unusual attacks with great willpower of fortitude. If she makes a successful will or fortitude save against an attack that normally would have a lesser effect on a successful save (such as a spell with a saving throw entry of Will half or Fortitude partial), she instead completely negates the effect. An unconscious or sleeping varangian warrior does not gain the benefit of mettle.


Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 3rd level, a varangian warrior gains the ability
to react to danger before his senses would normally allow him to do
so. He retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught
flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses
his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.

Unlike normal, the varangian warrior does not automatically gain improved uncanny dodge if he already has the uncanny dodge feature from another source.

Is this normal uncanny dodge (i.e. it only works in light and no armour) or is it one that works in heavier armour (like the Eternal Blade's Armoured Uncanny Dodge)? If the latter, than add Armoured to the ability name to prevent stangeness.


Battle Frenzy (Ex): Once per round following a successful hit against an enemy the varangian may make an additional attack at the same attack bonus. At level 12 the varangian is able to make an additional attack for every successful attack roll he makes, at the same attack bonus. In addition, at level 8, for each additional successful strike he makes, he deals 1 additional point of damage for the duration of the encounter.

I do believe you mean 5th level, though I may be mistaken. Can the ability gain off itself, i.e. does a successful additional attack from a successful initial attack trigger a third attack? This ability, in and of itself, both parts, would be better suited at the 10th level slot, at least in my opinion both as a brewer and a DM.


Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 6th level and higher, a
varangian warrior can no longer be flanked; he can react to opponents on
opposite sides of him as easily as he can react to a single attacker.
This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the varangian
by flanking him, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue
levels than the target has class levels.

Nothing to say here, except see Uncanny Dodge for small question.


Like A Hot Knife Cuts Through Snow (Ex): Once per round, as part of any attack action, the varangian warrior may make one attack ignoring any Armor and Shield bonuses to the enemies AC.

Per encounter might do well, as this would put it in line with a similar abilty both found in the spellcaster (wraithstrike, which can be prepared multiple, but that spellcasting), and the maneuver emerald razor, from the Diamond Mind discipline, both of which make attacks touch attacks (which is this was once per encounter, I'd say bumping it to a touch attack instead wouldn't hurt).


Improved Mettle: Starting at level 9, whenever the varangian warrior is required to make a Fortitude or Will Save he takes no ill effects when making the save, in addition, even if he fails the save, if the cause has a lesser effect he takes that one. Such as the ray of exhaustion.

Nothing to see here, good advancement of abilities.


Two Weapon Perfection: The varangian warrior has perfected the ways of two weapon fighting. It gains its full base attack bonus to both weapons, with only a -2 penalty on offhand attacks. (If the varangian has multiple limbs he gains this bonus with all offhand weapons.)

Perhaps, instead of calling this Two Weapon Perfection (though technically not Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting), you might want to look to the Superiour Two-Weapon Fighting ability from the ettin. Essentially, instead of having two brains, this complete removal of the TWF penalties could be down to this class' amazing skill with two-weapon fighting.


New Items:
Exotic Shield: Arrow Catcher; AC Bonus: 3; ACP: -3; Weight: 7 pounds; Cost: 35 Gold
This type of shield is made of a material similar to wicker, made up of severa layers woven in such a way that it is lighter than most shields, and will catch an arrow or a sword that strikes it. Granting a +2 circumstance bonus to disarm attempts, and to resist sunder attempts. It is reinforced with metal rings spaced at intervals in the weave. In the center is a metal boss to protect that hand that supports it, while some may have a length of metal covering the area in front of the arm. Though one like this has an addition +1 to AC, it looses its bonuses to disarm, and the ability to snare arrows.

You've created an exotic shield that is more powerful than other exotic shields. In homebrewing, it is generally good to look to other works to balance our own. Perhaps the shield could have the AC bonus of a normal heavy shield with this ability, which would put the extra AC version in line with the Extreme Shield from Races of Stone, an exotic shield.


The inspiration for this revision was admittedly, from a piece of music. Though the original was just that. Original. The song is Valhalla Awaits Me, by a band known as Amon Amarth.

Listened to it. Thanks for the suggestion. The class doesn't really totally match up with the guy who drops his shield to hack a guy apart with an axe, and then exult in the slaughter before his inevitable and honourable death in combat. Seems more like a Frenzied Berserker, but that's getting nitpicky.

And now we come to Elfstone's suggestions


Well, first of all, try to narrow the PrC's focus; right now, rather than focusing on the synergy between styles you describe in the introduction, it seems like a warrior who simply dabbles in both TWFing and shield bashing.

From the intro, it sounds like this is a warrior who dashes in with a shield, switching to TWFing if needed. If we establish these as two different faces of the class, defensive and offensive, and base class features off those, then we have a warrior who throughout the battle switches between roles, which I think is a very interesting concept.

Going through it piece by piece:

- 2 SP is very little; how about raising it to 4?

- The feat prereqs are enormous. Weapon Focus and Spec are reasonable, if not fantastic on their own, but on further thought they can probably just be gotten rid of. I'd say you should include Quick Draw as a prereq, though, as well as Two-Weapon Fighting, get rid of the Endurance and Diehard prereqs, and swap Shield Focus for Improved Shield Bash. That's three feats - very heavy tax, but not as overwhelming as before, and achievable without the use of flaws and/or a dip in fighter.

- I'd very strongly recommend giving this class a limited number of martial maneuvers, drawn from the Iron Heart and Tiger Claw disciplines, as well as full IL. Maneuvers every odd level and stances at 4th and 10th sound right.

- Elite Warrior is good if you want to pursue the WF/WS lines, but is limited in its use, as not many will want to pursue those lines. How about either replacing it with or adding Weapon Familiarity, as per the warblade?

- With TWFing as a prereq, it would of course be switched to ITWF at 1st level and GTWF at 6th.

- Shield Sling is redundant with Quick Draw, and so can safely be gotten rid of.

- Throw Weapon is identical to the feat Throw Anything.

- The Two-Weapon Defense line is awful, and redundant with a shield. It can be safely gotten rid of.

- Improved Shield Bash - Now a prereq. Instead, have the PrC grant Shield Charge, and Shield Slam at 8th.

- All the rest looks good.

That makes a solid baseline. The TWFing side, I think, is very solid; all that remains is giving the defensive side some battlefield control abilities.

Edit: Here's a table for the class, with my suggestions. Looks like there's room for defensive abilities at level 4 and 7.


Prerequisites:
BAB: +6
Feats: Improved Shield Bash, Two-Weapon Fighting, Quick Draw
Alignment: Any non-chaotic. A varangian is a sworn warrior, similar to a knight, though less exacting. A chaotic character is simply incapable of the dedication required to become one. If ever a varangian becomes chaotic, they retain the abilities of this class, but gain an experience penalty of 50% and cannot gain any further levels until they atone, and correct their alignment. Their oath is a sacred one.

The Varangian Warrior
{table]Level | BAB | F | R | W | Special | Maneuvers | Stances
1st| +1 | +2 | +0 | +2 | Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Throw Anything | 1 | 0
2nd| +2 | +3 | +0 | +3 | Shield Charge | 0 | 0
3rd| +3 | +3 | +1 | +3 | Mettle, Uncanny Dodge | 1 | 0
4th| +4 | +4 | +1 | +4 | | 0 | 1
5th| +5 | +4 | +1 | +4 | Battle Frenzy | 1 | 0
6th| +6 | +5 | +2 | +5 | Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Uncanny Dodge | 0 | 0
7th| +7 | +5 | +2 | +5 | | 1 | 0
8th| +8 | +6 | +2 | +6 | Like a Hot Knife Cuts Through Snow | 0 | 0
9th| +9 | +6 | +3 | +6 | Improved Mettle | 1 | 0
10th| +10 | +7 | +3 | +7 | Two Weapon Perfection | 0 | 1
[/table]

Hit Dice: d10

Class Skills:
The Varangian Warrior's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Martial Lore (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).

Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) × 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Disciplines: Iron Heart, Tiger Claw

Seems like he says quite a few things I said. As an initiator, this class can do alot of the same things, but several of those things can be taken care of by maneuvers, leaving class features open for further flavour, like perhaps Imp Crit in order to hack from skull to teeth with your axe? Or perhaps a way to get temporary hit points to stave off death? Or perhaps, if we are being bold, the Crusader's steely resolve pool might serve some inspiration?


Get out, go make your own class. No Plagiary.
The actual idea here is that they are recieving training, weather self taught, or taught by someone else. Quick draw would not make shield sling obsolete.

Indeed, Quick Draw doesn't make Shield Sling obsolete, but the two could be interchanged without much issue. The class can easily self-taught or taught by others whether it takes Elfstone's suggestions or not.


You came across as judgmental, and negative. It did not sound like an evaluation or a critique, so much as an attempt to find any possible flaws. This class is intended to be a fighter with more combat options than a solo specialist, while allowing said fighter to be more useful in combat. Quick draw qould not replace shield sling, because it would not allow the varangian to change out his weapon for the extra bonus to AC upon being attacked. The Two Weapon Defense line does not make a shield obsolete. In example, I'm a varangian. I use a tower shield. I have my two weapons out. My two weapons give me a +3 shield bonus to AC. My tower shield gives me a +5 thanks to shield focus. In addition, my shield gives me cover. My weapons do not. In addition, the WF, WS line is not the only line of feats to which the elite warrior would grant access. There are other feats which require fighter levels. Everything in the PrC was calculated. While what I was looking for was advice, and commentary, I was not asking to have someone rewrite the entire thing for me.

On another line, I tend to avoid the ToB. I find it to be unnecessary, and generally against the entire purpose for a fighter. If you want a character like that, just go psychic warrior.

Where did Elfstone act negative or judgemental? You asked for suggestions:


Got any suggestions?

And were given a quite well thought out response to said request. A PEACHer does not have to fall to the ground and kiss the brewer's feet as his/her only response to a class. Where there are flaws, if the class has the PEACH tag on it, it is open to having said flaws (whether glaring or simply a matter of the PEACHer's preferences) discussed.

As I've said before, the ToB accomplishes much of what you want to do, and could only offer expanded options in this case. A psychic warrior would be inappropriate, as the psychic warrior is mystical, while an Iron Heart/Tiger Claw initiator is much more visceral, down-to-earth and very much a stalwart warrior.

This all being said, the class as is stands fairly okay as a tier 3 class, with the exception of Battle Frenzy, which needs some addressing. I could see a ranger taking this in a system that was looser on the Weapon Specialization reqs, or perhaps a warblade.

Ralasha
2011-01-13, 05:04 AM
Done. Thanks. Isaw to the problems you pointed out. The Uncanny Dodge line is Armored now, the 12th is changed to 5th. etc. Thanks again.

Ironed out a few more problems, attempted to add extra balance, attempted to add a little more flavor. Shielded Charge now added. Shield Sling changed to Shield Swap for clarity.