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WarKitty
2011-01-08, 02:46 PM
The character I've created currently is a PF core only bard. Since this is a short campaign, I'd like him to be a back-up character for another game. The other game is PF with all 3.5 supplemental material allowed, excepting setting-specific or online-only material and spell compendium. Since this raises the power level, I'd like to get some advice on more powerful ways to do what I'm doing.

http://www.dndsheets.net/view.php?id=11273 there's the link to the character.

Things that are not negotiable:
Race
Alignment
The Skill Focus (perception)

Things that are semi negotiable - must be replaced with a fluff equivalent:
The dazzling display (note weapon focus is a prerequisite)

Mechanical goals:
I am a trapfinder for the party. I am also a general sneak/bluff/diplomacize my way out of things character and the party face. Would like to be moderately competent in melee, but does not need to be top of the line, just able to hit things most of the time. Other abilities along the lines of dazzling display are also welcome in lieu of this.

Backstory:

Junren is the half-breed child of elven mage Ahilana, and a human mage. Junren believes his father to be a wandering magic item dealer. In reality, he is a carful breeding of his mother's.

Ahilana, always the politician, had chosen the father carefully. Her contacts at the human mage's guild had informed her of a particularly bright young man. She had used her powers of mundane disguise to pass off as a half-elf barmaid. The young man was easily seduced into becoming her lover. Once she had assured herself of a pregnancy, she pled her excuses and left town.'

The child was born safely. The boy was named Kamani for the sturdiness he had over an elven child. He grew quickly by elven standards, and his mother watched him closely for signs of the magical talent she had so carefully selected for. None came. In disappointment, she consigned him to the care of a maid, as he reached the age of 8.

The maid, true to her charge, began educating Kamani in the ways of elven nobility. Among these was music. Kamani took to the art as soon as he was introduced to it, learning rapidly.

One day, Kamani had been put into his court garb for a public showing. The outfit was a sky blue, a color the boy detested. He was playing his lyre. Suddenly the nurse noticed the color of his tunic changing, deepening from a light blue into a dark purple.

The nurse informed Ahilana of this development. Surprised, she called for the boy and put him through various magical tests, with his lyre and without. The boy performed various effects through music but was utterly incapable of doing them without.

Delighted that her careful planning had come through after all, Ahilana embarked on her original plan for Kamani's training. The 10 year old boy was given into the care of a bard and former thief, hired from a distant human city. He learned both musical training and how to sneak and not get caught from his mentor.

As he grew, Kamani began receiving small assignments from his mother. They started with little things, like finding out who a minor noble's lover was. Slowly they grew in difficulty and importance. Sometimes Kamani would be called upon to steal a rare scroll from someone's library. Sometimes he was even called upon to ensure a particular person fell ill at the right time.

One day, Ahilana called her son into the room. She had a special assignment for him. A certain noble was investigating too closely into Ahilana's trade with the dark elves. He needed to be made to go away - permanently. Ahilana gave her son two doses of powerful poisons and instructed him to kill the man.

Something in Kamani revolted at the idea. Nonetheless, he told his mother that he would. He put on his usual court garments of a young man out travelling between courts for pleasure, and grabbed his favorite horse, a fast courier, before setting out on the road. Not intending to return, he stuffed his pack with everything he thought he might need.
Once dusk approached, he turned his horse aside as if to camp for the night. He set up a false camp, then took his lyre out and concentrated very hard on being human. Thankfully, it worked - his ears rounded out and his skin yellowed into the appearance of the nearby humans. Then he rode as far as he could.

About 2 hours after dawn, Kamani reached a small city within the human lands. Recasting his spell, he formed his appearance into the darker semblence that his tutor had displayed. At the gate he declared himself to be Junren, a travelling sorcerer who had been visiting the elves to study his craft but was now going home to his family. He lodged for the night at an inn and rode off the next morning.

The young man provided this same story until he reached the coast. Leaving his horse and saddlebags at the temple of Ehlonna, he bought passage on a ship to the lands he knew of across the ocean. Once there he finally relaxed into his true form, a half-elf bard who traded his music to the innkeepers for his board. Still concerned about his mother's reach, he kept moving constantly.

Notes:
Since this is Pathfinder, you don't need trapfinding to find traps, although you do need it to disable magic traps. I would likely eventually want the ability.

I'm using the street singer variant from the APG: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard#TOC-Street-Performer

Duncan_Ruadrik
2011-01-08, 02:57 PM
Have you looked at some of the other alternate class feature Bards in the Advanced Players Guide? It made bards do everything Id ever wanted them to do, particularly the Sandman "kit".

They get trapfinding, trap sense, sneak attack, bonus to bluff, sleight of hand and stealth, a Steal Spell ability, and an ability called sneak spell that increases the DC of their spells when the target is unaware of it. Instead of suggestion, a "slumbersong" performance that functions as Deep Slumber spell, without the HD limit. Plus some other later level goodies, that ^ is just what I have now at level 8.

In exchange, you give up your inspire whatever stuff, Suggestios, Deadly Performance, bardic Knowledge, versatile performance, an Lore master.

EDIT: also, dont forget the Extra Performance feat in Pathfinder. Gives you an extra 6 rounds per day. Also, the APG had a half elf alternate favored class: Bard bonus, that gives them a bonus round of performance instead of the +1 HP or Skill Point.

WarKitty
2011-01-08, 03:01 PM
Have you looked at the alternate class feature Bards in the Advanced Players Guide? It made bards do everything Id ever wanted them to do, particularly the Sandman "kit".

They get trapfinding, trap sense, sneak attack, bonus to bluff, sleight of hand and stealth, a Steal Spell ability, and an ability called sneak spell that increases the DC of their spells when the target is unaware of it. Instead of suggestion, a "slumbersong" performance that functions as Deep Slumber spell, without the HD limit. Plus some other later level goodies, that ^ is just what I have now at level 8.

In exchange, you give up your inspire whatever stuff, Suggestios, Deadly Performance, bardic Knowledge, versatile performance, an Lore master.

EDIT: also, dont forget the Extra Performance feat in Pathfinder. Gives you an extra 6 rounds per day. Also, the APG had a half elf alternate favored class: Bard bonus, that gives them a bonus round of performance instead of the +1 HP or Skill Point.

I think you missed the last line. :smallwink: I'm using street singer variant for the invisibility stuff. I noted the half-elf bonus but at this point I really needed the hit points. Might give that up for the conversion, as it wouldn't need as much melee. The steal spell and sneak spell abilities just didn't look that useful to me.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-01-08, 03:06 PM
Song of the Heart from ECS will increase your Inspire Courage bonus by +1. The spell Inspirational Boost in SC gives it another +1. A Badge of Valor from MIC adds another +1 to it 3/day. Those combined will make your Inspire Courage ability grant yourself and allies a +4 to attack and damage rolls. Given your good alignment, you could also pick up Words of Creation in BoED, which doubles your Inspire Courage bonus. Note that the Badge of Valor's bonus is added on after you start using Inspire Courage, so it won't be doubled by Words of Creation, but that will still be +7 total to attack and damage rolls for any allies who hear you singing. It costs only two feats (which must be taken at 3rd+ level and 6th+ level), one 1st level spell known, and an item with only a 1400 gp price tag.

If you're giving out such high bonuses, you may as well increase the number of allies who benefit from it. Wild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) is a good choice, and Obtain Familiar from CA plus Improved Familiar in the DMG with more options added in CW is definitely worth having if you can spare the feats. An Eternal Wand (MIC) of Hound of Doom (CW) can be used by anyone capable of casting arcane spells, and it's way too good to pass up.

Savage Bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bardVariantSavageBard) is a fairly strong alternative, and goes especially well with Wild Cohort.

A few more feats worth looking at are Melodic Casting in CM and Versatile Spellcaster from RotD.

Duncan_Ruadrik
2011-01-08, 03:09 PM
I saw that you had the Street Singer, I just thought the Sandman might be more what you were looking for... anyway....

uh, Dont forget Arcane Strike, I've found that useful for a Bard. Again, (its worth saying again) dont forget Extra Performance.

WarKitty
2011-01-08, 03:12 PM
Song of the Heart from ECS will increase your Inspire Courage bonus by +1. The spell Inspirational Boost in SC gives it another +1. A Badge of Valor from MIC adds another +1 to it 3/day. Those combined will make your Inspire Courage ability grant yourself and allies a +4 to attack and damage rolls. Given your good alignment, you could also pick up Words of Creation in BoED, which doubles your Inspire Courage bonus. Note that the Badge of Valor's bonus is added on after you start using Inspire Courage, so it won't be doubled by Words of Creation, but that will still be +7 total to attack and damage rolls for any allies who hear you singing. It costs only two feats (which must be taken at 3rd+ level and 6th+ level), one 1st level spell known, and an item with only a 1400 gp price tag.

If you're giving out such high bonuses, you may as well increase the number of allies who benefit from it. Wild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) is a good choice, and Obtain Familiar from CA plus Improved Familiar in the DMG with more options added in CW is definitely worth having if you can spare the feats. An Eternal Wand (MIC) of Hound of Doom (CW) can be used by anyone capable of casting arcane spells, and it's way too good to pass up.

Savage Bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bardVariantSavageBard) is a fairly strong alternative, and goes especially well with Wild Cohort.

A few more feats worth looking at are Melodic Casting in CM and Versatile Spellcaster from RotD.

I don't have inspire courage.

@Duncan: Mostly we don't face that many casters, and I've found it pretty rare to have someone unaware and be in a position where I can hit them with something. The trapfinding would be nice, but I don't like the other stuff much.

Duncan_Ruadrik
2011-01-08, 03:23 PM
For sure, its all cool. Stealspell and Sneak Spell is circumstantial. I get it. :smallwink:

WarKitty
2011-01-08, 05:13 PM
Anyone? The variant I'm using doesn't have the inspire courage and inspire greatness line, and I really don't want to go down the buffer route anyway.

WarKitty
2011-01-23, 12:13 PM
*poke* could still use some help here...

Urpriest
2011-01-23, 12:36 PM
What does Dazzling Display do, for those not in the PF know?

WarKitty
2011-01-23, 12:45 PM
What does Dazzling Display do, for those not in the PF know?

Dazzling display allows you to make an intimidate check to demoralize against all opponents within 30 feet. On that subject, if there's any good ways to get more out of intimidate I'd be quite interested.

Not the most powerful option ever, but it's cool.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2011-01-23, 01:18 PM
The Imperious Command feat in Drow of the Underdark makes it so anyone you demoralize in combat cowers for one round, and is shaken on the following round. Combat should go something like this:
Round 1: Dazzling Display, everyone who fails is cowering until your next turn.
Round 2: Dazzling Display, anyone who was cowering before is shaken now and takes a -2, everyone who fails is cowering until your next turn.
Round 3+: Repeat.

*flourishes sword*
(opponents cower) "Aaah! Please, don't hurt me!"
*flourishes sword again*
(opponents cower) "Aaah! Please, don't hurt me!"
*flourishes sword again*
(opponents cower) "Aaah! Please, don't hurt me!"

You should consider going Half-Orc, possibly with the Magic-Blooded template from Dragon 306 so you won't take a Cha penalty. That way you can get the feat Menacing Demeanor from Races of Destiny, along with Skill Focus: Intimidate. If possible say you visited the Otyugh Hole detailed in Complete Scoundrel to get Menacing Demeanor for 3,000 gp without spending a feat on it. If you don't mind losing a level of spellcasting, a single level of Half-Orc Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm#halfOrcParagon) will give you another +4 to Intimidate, and you'll improve your BAB and Fort save as well.

Take the feat Frightful Presence from the Draconomicon (the PC version on page 106, not the monster version on page 67), and consider getting Ability Focus for it from the Monster Manual. There's a regional feat in PGtF called Dreadful Wrath that's even better, if available. A Frightful Crest graft from Races of the Dragon isn't quite as good, but if you're short on feats and have an abundance of wealth it may be worth considering. Opponents who are Shaken from your Frightful Presence will take a -2 vs Dazzling Display, and making them shaken again will push them into Frightened and they'll try to flee.

WarKitty
2011-01-23, 01:27 PM
The Imperious Command feat in Drow of the Underdark makes it so anyone you demoralize in combat cowers for one round, and is shaken on the following round. Combat should go something like this:
Round 1: Dazzling Display, everyone who fails is cowering until your next turn.
Round 2: Dazzling Display, anyone who was cowering before is shaken now and takes a -2, everyone who fails is cowering until your next turn.
Round 3+: Repeat.

*flourishes sword*
(opponents cower) "Aaah! Please, don't hurt me!"
*flourishes sword again*
(opponents cower) "Aaah! Please, don't hurt me!"
*flourishes sword again*
(opponents cower) "Aaah! Please, don't hurt me!"

You should consider going Half-Orc, possibly with the Magic-Blooded template from Dragon 306 so you won't take a Cha penalty. That way you can get the feat Menacing Demeanor from Races of Destiny, along with Skill Focus: Intimidate. If possible say you visited the Otyugh Hole detailed in Complete Scoundrel to get Menacing Demeanor for 3,000 gp without spending a feat on it. If you don't mind losing a level of spellcasting, a single level of Half-Orc Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm#halfOrcParagon) will give you another +4 to Intimidate, and you'll improve your BAB and Fort save as well.

Take the feat Frightful Presence from the Draconomicon (the PC version on page 106, not the monster version on page 67), and consider getting Ability Focus for it from the Monster Manual. There's a regional feat in PGtF called Dreadful Wrath that's even better, if available. A Frightful Crest graft from Races of the Dragon isn't quite as good, but if you're short on feats and have an abundance of wealth it may be worth considering. Opponents who are Shaken from your Frightful Presence will take a -2 vs Dazzling Display, and making them shaken again will push them into Frightened and they'll try to flee.

Cool, thanks! Race is fixed, but Imperious Command should really increase the level - I'll slot that in at 7th for conversion. Should be needing snowflake wardance around 9th.

Thankfully the character has improved since I originally posted, via loot accumulation.